What will it take to raise attendance

[Harry]

Before every football game at SMU, the school band walks down the Boulevard and plays the fight song. This well-know tradition is meant to be a message for everyone on campus to start heading toward the stadium for the game. However, the students, faculty, and fans have started using the song as the signal to head towards the nearest place to hangout around campus. Rather than stand outside in the heat and watch the Mustangs, most people have decided they would rather be inside watching TV and drinking a cold one.

This lack of desire to go to games is not just around the football team. SMU athletics struggles with attendance for just about every sport. The athletic department has attempted everything to try and raise fan support, but nothing seems to work. They have offered incentives, hosted events and even given out free tickets to students. Now, the school is starting to consider allowing the sale of alcohol at games on campus to help increase attendance.

The Boulevard seems to have become a very strong tradition, but I dont know if its enough to fill the stadium, said Rick Hart, the schools athletic director. I think a city this size is an asset if you have a wining program and develop some traditions that people want to be a part of.

Hart took over as athletic director on July 16 after spending six years at the University of Tennessee-Chattanooga. He is faced with the challenge of attracting and entertaining a very broad audience of students, local community members, family, alumni and more. He believes there is one solution that will draw in every type of person.

Students and people in Dallas want to be associated with a winner, explained Hart. I think winning will positively impact attendance more than any other one thing we can do.

Hart is not the only one who believes building a great program and having a good campus environment will solve the attendance problem. Most of the students around campus also said the product on the field was what meant the most to them.

Very few colleges and pro franchises that lose consistently have brand loyalty, said Matt Cohen, a junior marketing major at SMU. The marketing the school does wont matter unless you have something to back up the efforts on the playing field.

Cohen says his friends have remained loyal to their favorite teams back home because they have been more successful than the SMU program. This desire to watch games going on around the country results in students trying to find a bar or restaurant to watch sports, rather than focus on the teams playing on campus.

One thing SMU has started to consider internally is the possible sale of alcohol at sporting events on campus. Recently, schools around the country have started to adopt this idea more and more. Hart says its something the department has discussed, but its more of a philosophical question for the university administration.

Read more: http://www.smudailycampus.com/news/metropolitan/what-will-it-take-to-raise-attendance-at-smu-sporting-events-1.3040877#.UYYn9oy9KSO

[jdennis82]

It seems pretty simple...it starts with consistent winning. The atmosphere during a loss is so unpleasant that fans won't be drawn to the stadium unless they're looking forward to the victory celebration. Promotions and bits don't work if the fan leaves with a poor aftertaste based on the on-field performance.

[drex]

If you can be competitive, treat your fans well, and play teams that are of interest to your base, you have a fighting chance of some attendance success. Sorry, but SMU has violated at least two of the three forementioned basics.

[foutsrouts]

T-backs and beer. Guaranteed 50% attendance gains.

[Mo Green]

New AD

[Harry]

You know, I was kind of thinking "wow this thread again" but decided to take a look. And then it was a thread about raising attendance at SMU?

WTF, Harry????

Some of the issues in that article are topical to us and a lot of mid major schools. For instance selling alcohol at games etc. I found it interesting.

[RAGEMASTER5000]

I hate saying this but we should look at TCU to figure how to raise attendance. SMU's highest attended game was when they played TCU. TCU's attendance is almost double UNT's and SMU's.

Another thought. The Dallas Mavericks were #2 in attendance this season. http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance How is that possible? I know they are pro team, but this was a season that was basically meaningless very early.

[GL2Greatness]

If you can be competitive, treat your fans well, and play teams that are of interest to your base, you have a fighting chance of some attendance success. Sorry, but SMU has violated at least two of the three forementioned basics.

just another ridiculous comment based on nothing but jealousy

SMU plays Tech at home and TCU, TAMU and UH on the road because they played them at home last year

2012 was @ Baylor and UTEP and TAMU, TCU and UH at home

2011 was @TAMU, TCU and UH with Rice and UTEP at home

2010 was @Tech and Rice with UH and TCU at home

in the future 2014 is @ Baylor and north Texas with TCU and TAMU at home and that is just the OOC

2015 Baylor and north Texas at home and TCU on the road

SMU has one of the best tailgating experiences in the country with a great venue to host it and very comfortable for the fans

and while not world beaters they are 3-1 in bowl games over the last 4 years

contrast that with a team that has not had a winning season in 8 years and is 1-5 in bowls all time in their history and that last played in a bowl game in 2004 and last won one in 2002

and contrast that with a team that is looking at a schedule this year with Rice and UTEP at home and UTSA on the road as one of the best and most interesting schedules in a decade and you can see your comment is just BS

that is the great thing about GMG.....plenty of advice for UT on how "not to get left behind and become irrelevant"......plenty of advice for SMU and TCU on who they need to schedule and how they can both become relevant to their fans and to college football........plenty of concern for Baylor and Tech being left behind when UT bolts from the Big 12 (even though they will be irrelevant by then because TAMU is placing 3rd in their division in the SEC and playing in a non-BCS game) ......concern for UTSA having fans and attendance no longer showing up when the losing starts (even though they are playing "relevant" teams that "fans care about").....advice for UH, SMU, Tulane and Tulsa and on and on about what conference they should be in and who they should play........but when it comes to north Texas if even 10% of the things that others teams are told they should do is done or if one can even pretend that 10% of what other teams are told they should do is done it is world beater time and the giant is awake and the fans are going to pour in in droves and ALL IS WELL!!!!.....until the end of another 4-8 season then it is BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!!!!!

and the EASY answer for attendance at north Texas is to have officer EJ raid the evidence locker and bring a few hundred pounds of da kine to da game and pass out free nickel bags to the student sections and the people sitting in the wing and free dime bags to everyone else in the sideline seats...over 18 of course, but two kids gets you an extra dime

Edited May 5, 2013 by GL2Greatness

[NT03]

Some of the issues in that article are topical to us and a lot of mid major schools. For instance selling alcohol at games etc. I found it interesting.

I think selling alcohol at UNT sporting events would make the defeats hurt less

[NorthTexan95]

and while not world beaters they are 3-1 in bowl games over the last 4 years

SMU has one of the best tailgating experiences in the country with a great venue to host it and very comfortable for the fans

These two comments stood out to me. First, SMU is winning but they are still not drawing well. Not only is that a knock on SMU but it's also a warning to us ... just winning doesn't necessarily mean we'll have sellouts every week. That's why is so important to have quality facilities, great game day experience, and for the athletic department to continue to reach out to the school and community. This is something Mac does so well and when he retires from coaching he would make a great ambassador for the university.

Secondly, if you think SMU's tailgating experience is one of the best in the nation then you need to get out more.

[UNTcrazy727]

just another ridiculous comment based on nothing but jealousy

SMU plays Tech at home and TCU, TAMU and UH on the road because they played them at home last year

2012 was @ Baylor and UTEP and TAMU, TCU and UH at home

2011 was @TAMU, TCU and UH with Rice and UTEP at home

2010 was @Tech and Rice with UH and TCU at home

in the future 2014 is @ Baylor and north Texas with TCU and TAMU at home and that is just the OOC

2015 Baylor and north Texas at home and TCU on the road

SMU has one of the best tailgating experiences in the country with a great venue to host it and very comfortable for the fans

and while not world beaters they are 3-1 in bowl games over the last 4 years

contrast that with a team that has not had a winning season in 8 years and is 1-5 in bowls all time in their history and that last played in a bowl game in 2004 and last won one in 2002

and contrast that with a team that is looking at a schedule this year with Rice and UTEP at home and UTSA on the road as one of the best and most interesting schedules in a decade and you can see your comment is just BS

that is the great thing about GMG.....plenty of advice for UT on how "not to get left behind and become irrelevant"......plenty of advice for SMU and TCU on who they need to schedule and how they can both become relevant to their fans and to college football........plenty of concern for Baylor and Tech being left behind when UT bolts from the Big 12 (even though they will be irrelevant by then because TAMU is placing 3rd in their division in the SEC and playing in a non-BCS game) ......concern for UTSA having fans and attendance no longer showing up when the losing starts (even though they are playing "relevant" teams that "fans care about").....advice for UH, SMU, Tulane and Tulsa and on and on about what conference they should be in and who they should play........but when it comes to north Texas if even 10% of the things that others teams are told they should do is done or if one can even pretend that 10% of what other teams are told they should do is done it is world beater time and the giant is awake and the fans are going to pour in in droves and ALL IS WELL!!!!.....until the end of another 4-8 season then it is BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!!!!!

and the EASY answer for attendance at north Texas is to have officer EJ raid the evidence locker and bring a few hundred pounds of da kine to da game and pass out free nickel bags to the student sections and the people sitting in the wing and free dime bags to everyone else in the sideline seats...over 18 of course, but two kids gets you an extra dime

"SMU has one of the best tailgating experiences in the country..." quite possibly the stupidest thing you've ever said on this board. Not sure how a school that struggles to get more than 20K to a game, unless they depend on the visiting school bringing 10K, can have a top notch tailgating scene.

[Green Crazy]

I think mani/pedi give aways, free tip frostings, drawings for free facials and a tanning booth garden would do it, but I don't know how they'd get the females in the stadium.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Green Crazy

[meaniegreenie]

Maybe more dead hookers??

[UNTexas]

When is UNT to serve beer to the masses? That is my only question.

[ragpicker]

I can remember back to the halcyon days of my ill- spent youth when SMU drew great crowds at the Cotton Bowl, but not everyone in the stands was wearing Polo and Gucci. Fans back then came from not only the Park Cities but from neighborhoods such as Pleasant Grove and Oak Cliff as well as Mesquite and Garland etc. There is a troubling in- bred quality at SMU games these days and at the rate they are going there will soon be more spectators in the sky boxes (or whatever) than in the stands. While this is not a UNT problem, the point is that that we could do a better job of promotion and marketing beyond Denton County. A nice big ad, for example, in the DMN from time to time shouldn't bust our budget.

[letsgiveacheer]

Several years ago, I went to see North Carolina Wesleyan play Furrum College. At halftime, they had a drawing for a quater side of beef. Maybe we should try that, too?

[casual fan]

Several years ago, I went to see North Carolina Wesleyan play Furrum College. At halftime, they had a drawing for a quater side of beef. Maybe we should try that, too?

Are you out of your mind? We would have to wade though PETA protesters and vegans just to get to the game.

However, 25 lbs of Tofurkey might get some of the music and art students to show up.

[Eagle1855]

It seems pretty simple...it starts with consistent winning.

This and this alone. It solves everything. We just haven't ever done it, so we don't have any way of proving it. But it works elsewhere...

[KRAM1]

Winning...plain and simple. At this time the UNT fan base in the majority is pretty much on the bandwagon variety. That is fairly understandable given the record the last some odd years. It's too bad, but it is true! Are things changing a bit? Sure they are, but winning will get UNT and its fan base much much faster.

So, let the winning begin!

[untjim1995]

I think what SMU deals with on this is even worse than what we have to deal with. SMU is located smack dab in the middle of a big city that only cares about winners--but it has to be winners that matter, i.e., pro teams, Texas, OU, A&M, Tech, etc...The only time that SMU was ever relevant to the market that drew big crowds in the last 35 years was during their pay-for-play days. They got to be a regular Top 20 team AND had the benefit of playing the big name SWC schools to help with the attendance, too. They haven't had those now in 20-25 years. UNT fans don't come to games for a lot of reasons, but the biggest reason is that we don't play teams that people care to watch in person. We have never played anyone in conference play that gets a big draw. SMU, since 1995, has pretty much dealt with the same thing. I can't imagine how much it sucks for a typical SMU rich-guy alum who gets lucky enough to go watch SMU play Temple, when he was a student, the worst conference game he saw was SMU and Rice. If it weren't for TCU on their schedule, SMU alums wouldn't have even one opponent on their schedule that matters to them. Maybe Houston, but...

SMU alums don't care about Houston in the same way they did about Texas A&M. They don't care about Tulane in the way they cared about Baylor. They don't care about Tulsa like they did about Texas Tech. Keep in mind, this isn't even counting the two huge heavyweights of the SWC days--Texas and Arkansas, who both guaranteed a huge crowd just by hosting the game, whether it was at the Cotton Bowl, Texas Stadium, or Ownby Stadiumwhen they played the Hogs or Horns. They got left behind, as well as they should have. Their repeated infractions, small size, and their eventual fallback to being a perennial loser were too much to overcome. Baylor had none of those stigmas when they got included in the Big XII. TCU figured out a way to get FW behind them and to win against teams that people had heard of, but didn't have the advantages on a recruiting front that TCU had. Now, they both got the invite to the big boys table. SMU won't get that, even if they started winning at a TCU-type level. The demand for a private school with a small enrollment isn't going to get any AQs attention unless you do what TCU did--go to huge AQ games and finish in the top 5. And if you aren't AQ--now or in the future, especially--your attendance in an area like Dallas isn't going to be anything that special. If you are a monied fan in Dallas, most likely your sports dollars are spent on the following: Cowboys, Mavs, Rangers, Stars, Texas-OU, Cotton Bowl game, going to college games in Austin, College Station, Lubbock, Norman, Stillwater, Fayetteville, etc.., then games at TCU or Baylor, then SMU. Actually, fans in Highland Park and University Park probably pay more $$ to follow HPHS than SMU. If SMU got games against those Big XII powers every week, that would obviously change. But that ship has sailed for SMU.

Our situation is really apples to oranges with SMU. I don't know if we won against the current SBCUSA schools if that would really move the needle with a big jump in attendance at Apogee--I'd like to think it would and that it would get us to a point where we saw 25k crowds often in Denton. But in the midst of a 26 game conference winning streak and a 4 year SBC championship run, our attendance still averaged around 15-18k. Since we still mostly play those teams still in conference, and with an OOC schedule that usually isn't all that great, I just don't know if we will see that kind of jump. Fans in this area of college football care about the Big AQ teams first--its how they were raised. I'm not sure that this can ever change--unless you are somehow fortunate enough to play those schools at home every year or two. SMUs alumni saw those teams regularly--but their cheating killed their program from ever being in the big boys leagues. I wouldn't blame them for just walking away from that. But the UNT fan hasn't even had that luxury. We are thrilled to trade Louisiana-Monroe for Louisiana Tech, even though it probably won't bring more than a extra 1000 or two to a home game in Denton. Its just the sad history of being an outsider, both because of schools like SMU in the SWC and because our leadership didn't want us to ever be a bigtime athletic school.

Edited May 6, 2013 by untjim1995

[Eagle1855]

Winning...plain and simple. At this time the UNT fan base in the majority is pretty much on the bandwagon variety. That is fairly understandable given the record the last some odd years. It's too bad, but it is true! Are things changing a bit? Sure they are, but winning will get UNT and its fan base much much faster.

So, let the winning begin!

The list of "great" fanbases - in ANY sport - that got there without winning is very, very short.

[foutsrouts]

I can remember back to the halcyon days of my ill- spent youth when SMU drew great crowds at the Cotton Bowl, but not everyone in the stands was wearing Polo and Gucci. Fans back then came from not only the Park Cities but from neighborhoods such as Pleasant Grove and Oak Cliff as well as Mesquite and Garland etc. There is a troubling in- bred quality at SMU games these days and at the rate they are going there will soon be more spectators in the sky boxes (or whatever) than in the stands. While this is not a UNT problem, the point is that that we could do a better job of promotion and marketing beyond Denton County. A nice big ad, for example, in the DMN from time to time shouldn't bust our budget.

Does anyone even read the DMN anymore? Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one left who still gets home delivery.

[Greendylan]

Winning is probably the biggest factor, but there's a lot more to it than that. Consider this: For our 8th consecutive losing season, we averaged about 19,000. We performed better than Kent State (11-3), Northern Illinois (12-2), Ball State (9-4), Middle Tennessee (8-4), Western Kentucky (7-6), and several other winning teams. We have essentially drawn even with SMU for the past several years, even while they have been consistently winning. If you compare TCU to SMU you find that the former averaged over double the attendance of their Boulevarding rivals--and both were 7-6. The immediate explanation would of course be that TCU had a better schedule, playing their first year in the Big 12. Also, one could point to the fact that their winning has been much more visible and meaningful over the past few years than that of SMU. Still, 46,000 to 21,000, for teams with identical records, suggests something deeper. Simply put, Fort Worth feels more of a connection to TCU than Dallas does to SMU.

Now, where do Denton and UNT fit into this? Denton County is somewhat disconnected to the Mean Green, but considering our numbers, our attendance hasn't been THAT bad, especially for a football program that hasn't given fans even the slightest tinge of excitement for almost a decade. I really think the Denton area and north DFW suburbs would LOVE to have a local college football team to watch live that doesn't require a soul-shattering drive through horrendous traffic in the midst of Dallas or Ft Worth. Would a 6-6 or 7-5 record set the metroplex abuzz over the Mean Green? No. But, it would give potential fans at least something of relevance to watch up in Denton. That alone won't be enough to create more than a minor bump in attendance; however, if our AD markets it properly and screams our successes from the rooftops (modest though they may be), then I think the possibility is there to snatch at least a portion of DFW's attention.

I think people are getting things reversed when they point to the Dickey teams that were winning and still not drawing many fans. Rather than viewing that as a cautionary tale about how winning doesn't help attendance at UNT, I think we need to be asking, "Now that we've largely fixed some of the major impediments to attendance that stymied us back in the early 00s, just think what we could average now if we had a successful year?"

[Harry]

I think the student population that are starting to make game a big part of their UNT experience is perhaps our most exciting development. Look in the gallery -- the pictures prove it. I can tell you without reservation that the student population is starting to really get behind the program unlike ever before. Part of this is that they are being encouraged to do so early on in the freshman orientations with RV Dr. Rawlins etc. I can promise you this wasn't happening before. The showing they made against Lafayette last year showed me that they aren't as fickle as the alumni.

I think the key to tapping into the alumni is tailgating and of course winning. The tailgating experience is top notch and everyone that I have brought to the games has had a great time. As more of us "die hards" will become disciples and get our friends and family to attend and experience we will see our alumni numbers increase.

Corporate involvement is also very important. We need to emulate what Lafayette is doing with their local business. They have contests to see which office has the best decoration, they recognize them at halftime of the games. I almost think this is important enough that you should have an AD employee whose sole focus is to develop this program and make sure it is a success. And again, this is not just asking them to buy tickets but giving them some value -- you will get an audience with xthousand students and alumni in the opening game or in home game 3-4 etc.. have a video camera in the stands and capture the various groups and make a point to get them on the big screen during various points of the game.

Another thing that excites me is the growth of Denton as a destination city. The downtown square area with restaurants and shopping could make it much easier for the average alum to get his family in Denton for the weekend...that makes the game and tailgating just one piece of the package. Getting a first class hotel and convention center will only add to this. This is where our numbers give us a huge advantage. If we can offer an attractive package for an alum who has a family it will only add to the attendance. When the businesses see the amount of dollars our fans are generating it will make it more important for them to participate.

Winning speeds up all of these things but just because you aren't winning doesn't mean you wait until it happens. The combination of the students, hardcore loyal fans exposing friends and family, targeting local business and developing the city of Denton itself as a great destination are all components which can lead us to building attendance.

[rws69]

Does anyone even read the DMN anymore? Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one left who still gets home delivery.

I do - probably the only option I have in Flower Mound.