Underdog Dynasty - Should CUSA Expand?

[jdennis82]

I join what I think is the majority of people on here who would be soundly opposed to the consideration made in this article, but thought it at least worthy of posting...

Quote

 

Should Conference USA Seriously Consider Expansion?

With dwindling TV revenues, C-USA teams look to be losing a little bit of financial steam. Would the addition of JMU and Georgia State into the fold change that problem?

http://www.underdogdynasty.com/conference-usa/2016/1/21/10809030/should-conference-usa-seriously-consider-expansion

 

While I suspect most on the board would balk at this idea based on the quality of the programs suggested here, my objection is based on the fact that I don't think adding teams in any real way improves the TV contract negotiations enough (if at all) to make up for diluting the revenue across more teams.  

In fact, more teams would negatively impact a real problem at North Texas - attendance.  The hope for me is that as familiarity with the CUSA schools grows, those games on the schedule have greater appeal to the fringe fan.  However the divisions are aligned in this scenario, that adds two teams to the shuffle lessening the matchup regularity necessary to build significant fan interest.

 

[Harry]

Not just no but hell no.  Let's take what we have and make it work.

i will say this, UNT fans should not ever complain about C-USA.  We have done little to nothing to help the conference in our time in it.  Our major revenue sports have stunk it up and our attendance has been abysmal.  We and other C-USA teams should look in the mirror versus cast stones at the conference.

We need to give it time. 

[NM Green]

It's hard enough to build rivalries with some of those eastern schools anyway.  What is an old dominion?  How we have never played this school in fball is wild to me.  GMG

[mgfan]

NO!

[VideoEagle]

I've written this over and over - TV network revenues at G5 schools will never equal the potential revenue the schools can generate for themselves. Ticket sales, donations, school sponsorships, local ad sales and naming rights can easily outweigh the dwindling TV network revenues. The number of people on cable and satellite systems is shrinking every single day and thus the number of eyeball watching will have to drop. 

Long term, I still think colleges and conferences setting up their own online PPV systems will be the way to go. No, it won't be a slick a production as ESPN or Fox, but with a minimal production set up and a custom distribution system - it's not hard to create something through Amazon's Cloudfront - conferences can create their own online networks. The number of people watching on tablets and phones reached a critical mass a few years ago. And if you want to what on your TV there are a dozen devices for under $50 that will allow that.  

[Eagle-96]

[forevereagle]

I don't see a need for the conference to add any members. If there was a need to expand, I would say absolutely not to more teams in the East. The suggestion by an ODU beat writer that adding JMU and Georgia State make everything better travel-wise for everyone is self-serving. We get absolutely no benefit in travel costs by adding GSU. I don't think the guy looked at map when he came up with the idea. If you are going to add a team to the West, it should be ASU or ULL. Second to that, if we need to expand, it really should be two teams in the West so UAB and Southern Miss can go back East where I think they would prefer to be. They have more history with those schools, and they are closer to most of them than they are to most of the West. 

[UNTexas]

All UNT needs to be concerned with is winning games. Lately our football and basketball teams have been nothing but an embarrassment. We can't honestly care about what anyone else does or what the conference does until football and basketball stop embarrassing the university by losing every chance we get.

Edited January 22, 2016 by UNTexas

[GreenTexan13]

I agree with the masses here. And that will be a big fat NO. I think we leave the conference the way it is. I seriously hate to say this, but the last thing I want is some sunbelt or a newcomer James Madison come in here and take over the conference (knowing our luck). All the teams in CUSA need to focus on strengthening the conference amongst themselves. North Texas has a lot of slack to pick up in that aspect.

[Withers940]

Should CUSA expand?

Should NASA send Astronauts to land on the Sun?

[greenjoe]

The sun is too hot.  I would support sun exploration only if the launches were at night.

[Stix]

I've come to the conclusion that if a real playoff system existed (at each level, however that shakes out - not going to get into it), that the ideal number of schools in a conference is 9.  That allows, in a 12 game season, for four conference home games, four conference away games, and four non-conference games.  You play everyone in your conference.  Then if you win the conference title, you're in the playoffs.  No at-large berths.  Simple.

 

[ADLER]

7 hours ago, NM Green said:

It's hard enough to build rivalries with some of those eastern schools anyway.  What is an old dominion?  How we have never played this school in fball is wild to me.  GMG

You'll need to read it phonetically. It's a minion that is neither very young nor very bright.

"Old Dumb Minion"

They have a school in Virginia that was brought into CUSA, along with UNC's Harlot, to keep ECU content enough not to leave for the AAC.

I guess these R.H. Stepchildren want to replicate with stepchildren of their own by adding the schools that the Sun Belt will not accept.

 

 

.

Edited January 22, 2016 by ADLER

[wardly]

I agree with Stix. I would like to see us add Texas State,ULL,A-State,and shuck everything east of La. Tech. Problem is New Mexico State is only 9th school I can come up with.

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 minutes ago, wardly said:

I agree with Stix. I would like to see us add Texas State,ULL,A-State,and shuck everything east of La. Tech. Problem is New Mexico State is only 9th school I can come up with.

Kiss any possibility of gaining positive national perception goodbye.  Win a conference full of those teams (which, by the way Rice would BOLT from so fast), and you're king of the turds.   If we ever want to have a door open for us to take a TCU-like journey (one Houston is currently on) through the wilderness and eventually land in the promised land, we need to keep trying to move UP...  not silly stuff like creating regional rivalries/conferences.

If this comes up, I really hope Rick & Smatresk have the foresight to beg the MWC for an invite.

[HarringtonFishSmeller]

<sigh>

I'd rather we contract than expand.  Or, if we're going to expand, only Texas, Louisiana, or Arkansas teams. 

We're not going to get a traditionally shiny, sexy program anyway, so...like I've argued before, get someone closer who might have a snowball's chance in hell of having alumni close enough to buy tickets to the games against us and put their butts onto Apogee's notably empty bleachers for a change.

List of the only schools I want in conference with us:

1.a. Arkansas State
1.b. Louisiana
2. Texas State
3. ULM
4. Abilene Christian...because it's going to happen one day down the line anyway.  There is a lot of alumni money at ACU and tons of alumni in the Metroplex.  They've already bought their way up from D-II to FCS.  This week, they announced that they had surpassed the $30 million goal to begin construction on their football stadium...since 2014:
http://www.acusports.com/news/2016/1/20/FB_0120164741.aspx?path=football

I hate the thought of sharing a conference with them, but...would it really be any worse than sharing with UTSA, the F?Us, and far flung Old Dominions and UNC-Charlottes?

 

[Ben Gooding]

1 hour ago, HarringtonFishSmeller said:

<sigh>

I'd rather we contract than expand.  Or, if we're going to expand, only Texas, Louisiana, or Arkansas teams. 

We're not going to get a traditionally shiny, sexy program anyway, so...like I've argued before, get someone closer who might have a snowball's chance in hell of having alumni close enough to buy tickets to the games against us and put their butts onto Apogee's notably empty bleachers for a change.

List of the only schools I want in conference with us:

1.a. Arkansas State
1.b. Louisiana
2. Texas State
3. ULM
4. Abilene Christian...because it's going to happen one day down the line anyway.  There is a lot of alumni money at ACU and tons of alumni in the Metroplex.  They've already bought their way up from D-II to FCS.  This week, they announced that they had surpassed the $30 million goal to begin construction on their football stadium...since 2014:
http://www.acusports.com/news/2016/1/20/FB_0120164741.aspx?path=football

I hate the thought of sharing a conference with them, but...would it really be any worse than sharing with UTSA, the F?Us, and far flung Old Dominions and UNC-Charlottes?

 

And I think we actually have ACU on the schedule at some point down the road, no? 

[HoustonEagle]

I hate these topics because it reminds me that we are already in 1-AA.  We can call it what we want. 

 

[Arkstfan]

If you are asking if CUSA should expand you don't understand the question.

People do not watch Ole Miss play Alabama because they are in the SEC. They watch because:

1. They are a fan of one of the two teams.

2. They hate one or both and want to watch the SOB's lose

3. The game is interesting because it impacts the conference race

4. The game is interesting because it impacts the CFP

5. It is more regionally relevant to them than the other games available to watch.

I watched few CUSA regular season games last season. UNT vs. Tennessee for a bit and was tuning in and out of USM-Tech, I saw that WKU-Marshall was on but flipped past it and did the same with an ODU game. I watched enough of an FIU game to take a pic of the stands and send it to a friend.

I don't give a rip if I ever see Charlotte or ODU play and have little interest in any game involving CUSA East or UTSA. When Marshall looked like an Access contender in 14 I watched a couple of their games.

CUSA (like Sun Belt) fails the primary test of a conference. Take the money away, take the bowl deals away, take the conference patch away and call it Conference X and how many stick together. LSU and Alabama want to play each other whether there is money involved or not, they did it back when there was no money. FIU vs. FAU on TV in the Sun Belt didn't get me to watch unless it had some impact on AState and I sure don't care now that they are in CUSA. Before Nebraska was even rumored to join B1G I was on the Nebraska board before an AState game and quickly learned they hated Iowa and Iowa hated them because Iowa fans were trolling the board. 

The fundamental flaw of it all is my interest in Georgia State is limited to when AState plays them and when their game has an impact on the league race and I doubt anyone here has any different view of FIU or ODU.

If you go back and ask "why" about old conference alignments historically conferences reflect economic zones and the transportation of the era. The Big Ten was not just organized around the economic unit of the Great Lakes, but transportation-wise around the railroads. Ohio State was located at railroad hub while the older more established University of Ohio was not. Taking a train from the University of Arkansas to cities in the SEC was very difficult, even much of the Big 8 was hard to reach from there, but it was easy to get to.... Dallas, thus Arkansas was in the SWC not the SEC and not the Big 8. When Arkansas State moved out of the Arkansas Intercollegiate Conference (which we were barely in because Jonesboro was nearly impossible to reach from much of Arkansas and rarely played a full schedule) we went indy and played mostly schools in the Midwest that were more accessible by train. 

The interstate system and larger more reliable buses started changing things. In 1963 the Southland formed with five Texas schools and AState, what changed the dynamic? Bus travel. US 67 was a busy Texas to Illinois route and I-30 was under construction (basically done by 1965) making that the natural direction to travel. 

Economically, Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma are entertwined, Arkansas used to be more oriented economically around St. Louis, Memphis, and New Orleans, now Dallas, Houston are the major players though Memphis and NOLA still matter to the agri industry and Memphis matters to some degree in shipping. What happens in Dallas is rarely news in Nashville or Birmingham but matters a great deal in Little Rock, OKC, and Tulsa.

That's the fundamental problem of CUSA and Sun Belt has they stand today, they don't reflect the reality of travel or economics.

[physics90]

1 hour ago, Arkstfan said:

If you are asking if CUSA should expand you don't understand the question.

People do not watch Ole Miss play Alabama because they are in the SEC. They watch because:

1. They are a fan of one of the two teams.

2. They hate one or both and want to watch the SOB's lose

3. The game is interesting because it impacts the conference race

4. The game is interesting because it impacts the CFP

5. It is more regionally relevant to them than the other games available to watch.

I watched few CUSA regular season games last season. UNT vs. Tennessee for a bit and was tuning in and out of USM-Tech, I saw that WKU-Marshall was on but flipped past it and did the same with an ODU game. I watched enough of an FIU game to take a pic of the stands and send it to a friend.

I don't give a rip if I ever see Charlotte or ODU play and have little interest in any game involving CUSA East or UTSA. When Marshall looked like an Access contender in 14 I watched a couple of their games.

CUSA (like Sun Belt) fails the primary test of a conference. Take the money away, take the bowl deals away, take the conference patch away and call it Conference X and how many stick together. LSU and Alabama want to play each other whether there is money involved or not, they did it back when there was no money. FIU vs. FAU on TV in the Sun Belt didn't get me to watch unless it had some impact on AState and I sure don't care now that they are in CUSA. Before Nebraska was even rumored to join B1G I was on the Nebraska board before an AState game and quickly learned they hated Iowa and Iowa hated them because Iowa fans were trolling the board. 

The fundamental flaw of it all is my interest in Georgia State is limited to when AState plays them and when their game has an impact on the league race and I doubt anyone here has any different view of FIU or ODU.

If you go back and ask "why" about old conference alignments historically conferences reflect economic zones and the transportation of the era. The Big Ten was not just organized around the economic unit of the Great Lakes, but transportation-wise around the railroads. Ohio State was located at railroad hub while the older more established University of Ohio was not. Taking a train from the University of Arkansas to cities in the SEC was very difficult, even much of the Big 8 was hard to reach from there, but it was easy to get to.... Dallas, thus Arkansas was in the SWC not the SEC and not the Big 8. When Arkansas State moved out of the Arkansas Intercollegiate Conference (which we were barely in because Jonesboro was nearly impossible to reach from much of Arkansas and rarely played a full schedule) we went indy and played mostly schools in the Midwest that were more accessible by train. 

The interstate system and larger more reliable buses started changing things. In 1963 the Southland formed with five Texas schools and AState, what changed the dynamic? Bus travel. US 67 was a busy Texas to Illinois route and I-30 was under construction (basically done by 1965) making that the natural direction to travel. 

Economically, Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma are entertwined, Arkansas used to be more oriented economically around St. Louis, Memphis, and New Orleans, now Dallas, Houston are the major players though Memphis and NOLA still matter to the agri industry and Memphis matters to some degree in shipping. What happens in Dallas is rarely news in Nashville or Birmingham but matters a great deal in Little Rock, OKC, and Tulsa.

That's the fundamental problem of CUSA and Sun Belt has they stand today, they don't reflect the reality of travel or economics.

Great post!

[NM Green]

Agreed.  I think a reorganization of AAC CUSA and SBC would be smart:

New Mexico State

UTEP

SMU

UNT

Houston

Rice

UTSA

Texas State

La Tech

Louisiana

Ark State

Memphis

Next 3 in: Tulsa, Tulane, Southern Miss

Even in crossover games I would find these games interesting.  

GMG

[Rudy]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 11:13 AM, greenjoe said:

The sun is too hot.  I would support sun exploration only if the launches were at night.

What time zone is it and would the landings be televised and covered in the DaMN?

[oldguystudent]

Bottom line for UNT.  What are we running at in terms of budget vs. a P5 program?  Going by 2014 USA Today stats, we're at about $31 million.  The lowest P5 I see is Utah at $50 million, then Mississippi St at $54 million, then things start to get ugly.  Even in the best case scenario, we're at 50% of a P5 team in terms of resources.

Then, look at fans.  Or don't.  Because we don't have any.  I have no idea what we're supposed to do about this one, because honestly, we've offered nothing in terms of product or ease of consumption for anybody to care.  Maybe we need to mandate that the band wear full uniforms in August.  Surely that will fix everything.

In the end, I don't know how we'll ever ascend beyond being a second tier program with 20,000 fans in attendance in good years.  The drive, the vision, the realities of economics and demographics just don't seem to be there.

Honestly, I'm OK with that.  I never want to be a semi-pro SEC team who pays off local authorities to turn a blind eye at indiscretions of my barely functionally literate players who go on to lucrative careers in organized crime as members of the Patriots.

[HarringtonFishSmeller]

2 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

Bottom line for UNT.  What are we running at in terms of budget vs. a P5 program?  Going by 2014 USA Today stats, we're at about $31 million.  The lowest P5 I see is Utah at $50 million, then Mississippi St at $54 million, then things start to get ugly.  Even in the best case scenario, we're at 50% of a P5 team in terms of resources.

Then, look at fans.  Or don't.  Because we don't have any.  I have no idea what we're supposed to do about this one, because honestly, we've offered nothing in terms of product or ease of consumption for anybody to care.  Maybe we need to mandate that the band wear full uniforms in August.  Surely that will fix everything.

In the end, I don't know how we'll ever ascend beyond being a second tier program with 20,000 fans in attendance in good years.  The drive, the vision, the realities of economics and demographics just don't seem to be there.

Honestly, I'm OK with that.  I never want to be a semi-pro SEC team who pays off local authorities to turn a blind eye at indiscretions of my barely functionally literate players who go on to lucrative careers in organized crime as members of the Patriots.

Exactly.  Agree.  So, in terms of "expansion" let's stand for closer to us, not farther away from us, for the sake of cost.  The competitiveness is not going to be substantially different.  And, no school "owns" any media area - the biggest, most often repeated joke of all among non-P5 conferences.

[untjim1995]

13 hours ago, NM Green said:

Agreed.  I think a reorganization of AAC CUSA and SBC would be smart:

New Mexico State

UTEP

SMU

UNT

Houston

Rice

UTSA

Texas State

La Tech

Louisiana

Ark State

Memphis

Next 3 in: Tulsa, Tulane, Southern Miss

Even in crossover games I would find these games interesting.  

GMG

If CUSA and the SBC want to be forward thinking, they would combine into east and west divisions, so as to keep their TV coverage, but make divisions line up geographically for travel costs and easier fan attendance. The AAC school and the MWC school are a different breed, a cut above the rest of the G5s. Now, it could easily see UTEP and Rice leave to go west to the MWC, which I expect to happen. But even so you would have this setup:

SBCUSA West

NMSU, UTSA, Texas State, UNT, Arkansas State, La Tech, ULL, ULM, USM, UAB and South Alabama 

SBCUSA East

MUTS, WKU, FIU, FAU, Ga State, Ga Southern, Troy , Marshall, Appy State, ODU, and Charlotte

Since scheduling is so hard for these schools, they will play 10 inter-division games, plus two OOC games--which will really help this when the P5s split away and we cannot play them anymore for a bodybag game to pay for our non-revenue sports. The winners of each division play for the SBCUSA Championship. If anyone leaves to go to the AAC or MWC, you just realign the divisions to continue to be geographic.