Realistic expectations for this program

[STE]

I agree with Harry. What I don't understand is our lack of planning. It was clear last year that AC was not the long term answer and yet we continue to play him. This is a qb  driven sport. How can we not have one consistent qb after 5 years??? Best case  scenario we go 6-6 this year and he graduates  and we have to start  over again next year.  Even in 2013 we never really tried to develop a qb.  The lack of planning in 2013 is what (in part) caused the 2014 debacle.

 

I'm tired of having to wait till next year . . . Every year

[oldguystudent]

 Do you think he understands excel and reddit?  

On a complete tangent, last year I had a young woman in her 20s, completely unaware of what I do for a living, based entirely on my knowledge of reddit, ask me how an old man like me can be so technologically up to date.

[NM Green]

6 wins?

Dude I am as optimistic as they come but I seriously just want this team to beat UTSA.  I would consider that a successful season.  Win 4 or 5 games and miss bowling and lose to UTSA again - that would be miserable.  I really don't see this team winning more than one game this year and that is a hope.  

By the way I loved everything but the dumb football yesterday.  I loved hanging with my Mean Green family and would not have changed a thing except the score and rain time.  

GO MEAN GREEN!!!!!

[Side Show Joe]

It is painfully obvious that our program isn't reaching its potential, and that is why so many in our fan base are expressing their displeasure.

I went back and looked up some numbers from a decade ago just to see how things compare....

                                          2006                 2014

Stadium                             Fouts                Apogee

Conference                       Sun Belt           C-USA

Athletic Budget                 $14,127,731     $31,617,094

Televised Games               0?                     12

Texas Conference-mates   0                       3

 

Every honest North Texas fan has to admit RV has done an amazing job of improving things in these areas. With advantages like these you would expect other areas to have improved too... but that just isn't the case. In the two most important areas we have failed to show the same level of improvement.

                                        2006                 2014

Attendance                     15,650              19,271

Record                            3-9                    4-8   

 

Off the field, this program has made huge improvements. Other then our HOD season, we have been stuck in neutral for a decade. It is time for those responsible for our lack of success on the field to be held accountable.

Thoughts?

 

[meanrob]

It is painfully obvious that our program isn't reaching its potential, and that is why so many in our fan base are expressing their displeasure.

I went back and looked up some numbers from a decade ago just to see how things compare....

                                          2006                 2014

Stadium                             Fouts                Apogee

Conference                       Sun Belt           C-USA

Athletic Budget                 $14,127,731     $31,617,094

Televised Games               0?                     12

Texas Conference-mates   0                       3

 

Every honest North Texas fan has to admit RV has done an amazing job of improving things in these areas. With advantages like these you would expect other areas to have improved too... but that just isn't the case. In the two most important areas we have failed to show the same level of improvement.

                                        2006                 2014

Attendance                     15,650              19,271

Record                            3-9                    4-8   

 

Off the field, this program has made huge improvements. Other then our HOD season, we have been stuck in neutral for a decade. It is time for those responsible for our lack of success on the field to be held accountable.

Thoughts?

 

I'll let others debate how much RV had to do with Apogee but I'm fine with giving him a lot of credit for that. However...

RV had nothing to do with our move to CUSA. Spots opened and they needed bodies (schools). Our location was more important than anything else.

RV has nothing to do with TV contracts. CUSA picks the conference schedule and he has nothing to do with our away OOC games. The explosion of cable sports networks has more to do with UNT being on TV more than anything else. 

How much of the increase in budget is tied to the student fee?

I have no problem giving credit where credit is do. Securing a few big time donations and making a few good non-rev sports hires to name a couple but no way he gets credit for everything that has happened during his tenure. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2015 by meanrob

[wardly]

I expect us to have another loosing season,fire coach Mac, and try again to find "Son of Hayden Fry".

[untjim1995]

Realistic expectations for the rest of this year are pretty simple at this point--just develop talent for strength and experience. We might win a game or two, but the whole goal for the rest of this year should be to build up the lines and find a running back. The QB situation is hopeless here, so it is not getting fixed anytime soon.

Next year, the depth and experience on the lines should help you get to 3-4 wins, which again, given the talent, is all that should be realistically expected. You cannot look at this as the head coach's 6th year with such expectations--this is what happens when your recruiting class for 2014 was dead-ass last by rivals. The talent from 2015's class was much better, but it's getting redshirted now or just a little playing time. By 2017, they should be able to be at a point to get to 5+ wins. Again, the expectations being asked are to be realistic--with Mac as the head coach, running an offense that nobody wants to play in, being owed three years more on the largest contract ever given by the university, this is all you should expect.

[UTSA Fan]

Well, my concern for both programs is that winning yields good attendance and good recruiting. Right now, both of my teams are losing on the field and now in recruiting with no reprieve on the horizon. If this is a 20 loss season for me, that means both programs will be screwed in recruiting and set back another year. I'm trying to be a glass 1\4 full not 3\4 empty guy, but I'm beginning to dread the game in Denton and where both teams may be. In a cruel twist of fate, my wife attended Toledo. Good gawd.

Edited September 21, 2015 by UTSA Fan

[GreenFlag]

Given our location and size, I expect to be the 800 lb gorilla of CUSA. Our standard should be excellence. We should have the means to terminate contracts when things aren't working out. We should have at least 6 home games a year. We should negotiate a P5 coming to Apogee every other year. We should go to a bowl game 80% of the time and sneak into the top 25 occasionally.

Those are my expectations. 

[Ben Gooding]

Given our location and size, I expect to be the 800 lb gorilla of CUSA. Our standard should be excellence. We should have the means to terminate contracts when things aren't working out. We should have at least 6 home games a year. We should negotiate a P5 coming to Apogee every other year. We should go to a bowl game 80% of the time and sneak into the top 25 occasionally.

Those are my expectations. 

And those are all reasonable expectations. Literally just win more than 1 game than you lose and all of your expectations could come to fruition in time. Give me 6-6, 6-6, 5-7, 8-4, 6-6, 10-2, 6-6, 4-8, 6-6, 7-5 in a 10 year span and I will be thrilled. That is not excellence, but it is competence and very respectable. 

[North Texas Shep]

I have only one expectation at this point... To try to win as many as these guys can. This year is looking like a bust, we all know it. I will still watch and support these kids that are working hard. Hopefully, the changes for next year are made, or they will lose a lot of fans and donors. In the end all this crap goes back on the AD and coaches. 

[UNT90]

Minus the Apogee part, I think I read this exact post 10 years ago.

who was the AD at that time? 

why do they even have to have a business degree? Not like I always agree with them but why not people like Ben Gooding or NT90? Business can be taught but you cannot teach passion! 

worst idea ever...

[Hunter Green]

Everyone on the thread makes a lot of sense, but allow me to add my 2 cents.  Change for the sake of change isn't going to do us any good, although I do believe wholesale changes are needed in the AD. With that said, it is up to the BOR, the Prez and our esteemed Chancellor to make the commitment, ala TCU and now, Houston, and pony up to bring in a proven coach and AD with a passion for UNT. Anything else is just changing to wallpaper.

[untjim1995]

Everyone on the thread makes a lot of sense, but allow me to add my 2 cents.  Change for the sake of change isn't going to do us any good, although I do believe wholesale changes are needed in the AD. With that said, it is up to the BOR, the Prez and our esteemed Chancellor to make the commitment, ala TCU and now, Houston, and pony up to bring in a proven coach and AD with a passion for UNT. Anything else is just changing to wallpaper.

waiting on the. BOR to totally reverse their views on all of this might take a while--like a lifetime. At least we get to see if winning at revenue sports means anything to Smatresk. If it does, we will see what the BOR says. That's the only hope...

[BillySee58]

I used this comparison in another thread, but do people think it's a coincidence that Jon Daniels hired two of possibly the three best managers in Texas Rangers history? Look at Arkansas State. 3 consecutive Sun Belt Championships with 3 different coaches. You get an AD who can make great hires and you get a coach who can, bear with me, coach and recruit well, and you can win games here.

We just won 9 games and a bowl game with really just one good (yet small) recruiting class and some former walkons and a few good players from other classes sprinkled across the field. Most of the all conference players on that team had good offer lists, but no schools we shouldn't be able to out pitch with our location and facilities. It's just a matter of finding that guy, and I think we can only do so by broadening our parameters. Not saying "he has to have coached D1 ball before because Dodge was a trainwreck." 

Mccarney still has earned time, I just haven't had confidence in him since he failed to capitalize on the bowl game momentum in recruiting of the subsequent summer (2014) and then started getting blown out by schools like UAB. I just think we're capable of a lot, and certainly more than what we're seeing right now, both on the field and in recruiting.

[MeanGreenHoops]

This is a difficult question Harry. Realistic Expectations? Well based on history, that's what we are getting. We generally lose and lose alot.

The problem is systemic. The only way to change the outcome is to clear house. It could mean that it doesn't change with a whole new AD and coaching hires, but it certainly won't change with the existing people.

Expectations should be, challenge for conference titles, maybe get ranked every once and a while. Be a team like Northern Illinois. If we ever get to that, we can see what our new expectations should be.

[UNT90]

Everyone on the thread makes a lot of sense, but allow me to add my 2 cents.  Change for the sake of change isn't going to do us any good, although I do believe wholesale changes are needed in the AD. With that said, it is up to the BOR, the Prez and our esteemed Chancellor to make the commitment, ala TCU and now, Houston, and pony up to bring in a proven coach and AD with a passion for UNT. Anything else is just changing to wallpaper.

Agree, which is why it took me so long to want RV gone despite a lot of evidence that change was needed. 

The wrong hire at AD would be a disaster. And if there is anything that UNT has proven decade after decade, it's that there is a 95% chance they will make the wrong hire when it comes to anything athletics.

But I'm willing to roll the dice on that 5%, all the while praying that President Smatresk is somehow different. 

Edited September 21, 2015 by UNT90

[Cerebus]

Mccarney still has earned time.

Does he?

The current AD fired Dickey after 1.5 bad years, and that was after 4 bowl games.  By that math Mac with is one bowl game earned what, 1.25 years of a losing record?  You'll have to ask the AD what the actual formula is.

[DallasGreen]

My bet is that if the sun at halftime was beating in the face of the alumni side and the students were in the shade like we were, the alumni side would have emptied out instead of the students.  

I don't think we are getting the most out of our alumni resources.   I think some would be shocked to see the comparison of the size of our alumni base vs the number of people the University employs to try to get/keep those alums engaged.   But then again, if folks look at our current level of alum engagement, maybe it isn't shocking to them and just more of an explanation.  

You might also want to observe the number of people on the alumni side who traveled from outside the city of Denton. My guess is 3 to 1 from the outside, and yes they would have stayed sun or no. Do you really believe the students of ANY other D-1 program care if the sun is in their face. Hell breakout the shorts, sun glasses, and bikinis !!!!!

[BillySee58]

Does he?

The current AD fired Dickey after 1.5 bad years, and that was after 4 bowl games.  By that math Mac with is one bowl game earned what, 1.25 years of a losing record?  You'll have to ask the AD what the actual formula is.

I'm trying to be nice, okay! Yeah, maybe he hasn't but of course Coach Mccarney was hired and extended by RV whereas Dickey was not. 

It seems pretty obvious that RV is clinging to Coach Mac as his great success of a hire. I've said this before, but RV has hired six coaches in the three revenue sports in the last decade who have coached a season (so not counting Jalie Mitchell who has yet to coach). Those coaches have coached 18 seasons total in their respective sports coming into this academic school year, and only one of those seasons was a winning one (2013 football). That one winning season got our coach a fat raise and a big extension, and I really can't see RV firing him.

[Cerebus]

I'm trying to be nice, okay! Yeah, maybe he hasn't but of course Coach Mccarney was hired and extended by RV whereas Dickey was not. 

It seems pretty obvious that RV is clinging to Coach Mac as his great success of a hire. I've said this before, but RV has hired six coaches in the three revenue sports in the last decade who have coached a season (so not counting Jalie Mitchell who has yet to coach). Those coaches have coached 18 seasons total in their respective sports coming into this academic school year, and only one of those seasons was a winning one (2013 football). That one winning season got our coach a fat raise and a big extension, and I really can't see RV firing him.

I was just trying to point out the absurdity of the situation.

Is there anyway we could get that bolded part to fit onto a banner we could fly over the stadium?

[oldguystudent]

 Hell breakout the shorts, sun glasses, and bikinis !!!!!

Full uniforms and pageantry or GTFO.

[untjim1995]

I'm trying to be nice, okay! Yeah, maybe he hasn't but of course Coach Mccarney was hired and extended by RV whereas Dickey was not. 

It seems pretty obvious that RV is clinging to Coach Mac as his great success of a hire. I've said this before, but RV has hired six coaches in the three revenue sports in the last decade who have coached a season (so not counting Jalie Mitchell who has yet to coach). Those coaches have coached 18 seasons total in their respective sports coming into this academic school year, and only one of those seasons was a winning one (2013 football). That one winning season got our coach a fat raise and a big extension, and I really can't see RV firing him.

RV thought that it was imperative to extend Mac five years after that HoD Bowl, when an extension of 2 years would have been just fine. He did this to show everyone that he finally got one right in his opinion--except that has backfired completely. Just as he was ready to give Benford an extension if could get to that high hurdle of .500 again last season--just to show everyone that one of his hires hadn't completely failed--RV is desperate to not have two major whiffs in the two main sports again. At this point, though, it isn't looking good for Benford at all, and he will be probably get replaced at some point in 2016.

[SilverEagle]

I expect us to have another loosing season,fire coach Mac, and try again to find "Son of Hayden Fry".

while you're at it, find the "Son of Hayden Fry, the AD". Remember, he did both........and quite well I might add.

[Got5onIt]

I'm trying to be nice, okay! Yeah, maybe he hasn't but of course Coach Mccarney was hired and extended by RV whereas Dickey was not. 

It seems pretty obvious that RV is clinging to Coach Mac as his great success of a hire. I've said this before, but RV has hired six coaches in the three revenue sports in the last decade who have coached a season (so not counting Jalie Mitchell who has yet to coach). Those coaches have coached 18 seasons total in their respective sports coming into this academic school year, and only one of those seasons was a winning one (2013 football). That one winning season got our coach a fat raise and a big extension, and I really can't see RV firing him.

Those stats are just brutal and flat out ridiculous. If that's not clear enough to point out  that change must start at the top......