DRC -- Details of Seth Littrell's new contract

[TheTastyGreek]

Screw it.

Why not $2 million? 

[@UNTSportsFan]

10 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

The point being made is not that he has done a bad job. Just that it hasn't warranted this type of commitment this early.

This 

Just look at what It took to get a p5 team to finally lure away PJ Fleck

What this deal really does is set the bar high.. anything less than a bowl bid for Littrell will be considered a failure from here on out IMO.

Edited May 31, 2017 by @UNTSportsFan

[oldguystudent]

The college football arms race is amazing to me.  Not directed at any school or person.  Just an observation of the intense increase in spending over the past 25 years.  I'm kinda surprised that those schools who ultimately dropped football tended to do so in the nineties before things even really began to get expensive.  I'd suppose all remaining are in it for the long haul. 

[RBP79]

Not sure of the pay raise but WB must of noticed something going on with SL and took action. 

Wouldn't count SL first recruiting season since he was hired in the middle of it and didn't have his staff on place.

Its reality that it's hard to recruit to a school with NT record. The only way to recruit better is to win...that might take longer than most want..we'll see.

Finally, this whole situation with contracts being re-negotiated is a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't".

 

[Cerebus]

12 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

We're on Littrell's third recruiting class and of the last 14 commits he has received between the 2017 and 2018 class, 13 of them have been players who did not have any other active FBS offers.

Really my main concern.  We keep hearing about P5 schools creeping, but even if you believe that you have to imagine in was for an OC position.  He might be a great OC, but he isn't going to be a great HC unless his staff wins more recruiting battles.  

[TreeFiddy]

As I recall, Littrell agreed to take less in annual salary so his assistant pool could be bigger.  The rumblings were that his original base salary was going to be in the $800k to $850k range so this is not that much of a raise over what he was going to get originally, and it really just represents market value of the top 20%-30% of the conference, which is a stated goal by WB.

I am glad we are finally not trying to do things by the cheapest path possible.  We have tried that approach for 100 years and it has gotten us nowhere.

[GrandGreen]

NT has almost guaranteed that Littrell is here for four or five more years despite how bad the  team does on the field.  If NT football is good, however this contract may deter ULM or ACU from hiring him away.  

I am seriously beginning to wonder about Mr. Baker.  Littrell had no chips in this game.  He was under contract and I highly doubt anyone with a better job was beating on his door or he would be probably gone.    Would it have not made a lot more sense to wait another year to see what direction this program is going?  What is the worst thing that could happen if he has a great year.   NT rewards him with a new contract.  He leaves anyway because NT can't match the prestige or money from a P5.

If he leaves under those circumstances, wish him well and find another good HC.  If NT is going to spend a $1m a year on a football coach, than go after someone like the La Tech coach who is a proven winner and currently makes about half as much. 

Like any G5 and most of the P5's, a successful coach is going to be lured away by a bigger and better program with a lot more dollars.  Prepare for that event, but don't needlessly limit NT's options if the HC can't turn the program around.  

[wardly]

You should get what you pay for, and I look at this raise as an investment into the future.My big concern is his failure to recruit, which we just can't sugarcoat. We got out butt kicked, which is why I would like to have seen one more recruiting class before this new contract. Also, I doubt anyone was seriously sniffing around a 5&8 coach with one of those wins against an 1AA opponent.

[TreeFiddy]

The recruiting is definitely one of a few leading indicator of future success.  It needs to improve so the results on the field follow or the results on the field need to improve so the recruiting will follow.  Either way one feeds off the other.

As much as anything, I hope the recent aggressiveness on coaching salaries is sending a message to recruits as well as the coaching fraternity that North Texas is getting serious about sports.  It's about time.

[xyresic]

I chuckle at what gets kicked around on message boards in the offseason.

What would you like to happen here? The guy inherited arguably the worst team in the country and led them to 5 wins with out an average QB. It's not like this contract extends him out to 2035. The total compensation is not wildly different here.

Why is it funny that P5 schools were sniffing around? He's a proven P5 coordinator, why would he only be getting looks from P5 schools as an assistant when he has already done that? Seth turned down other high profile P5 coordinator jobs to become a head coach. That is a fact.

Half of his coaching staff was just poached by P5 schools, some for major positions. There is obviously something that is getting noticed around the country here.

P5 schools were fishing around for SL but also WB. This is also a fact that I know firsthand. As JayD said doing another coaching search in such a short timeframe was something the school wanted to avoid. Bringing stability to a program takes time.

The complaints are not misplaced, I get it but think of it this way - for 15 years layer upon layer of poor decisions were made. This does not get properly fixed in 3 months or a year. It is a process to unwind things and get them in proper shape.

Yes recruiting needs to step up, yes we need to win recruiting battles more often, yes we need better attendance and qb play...

What Seth has given us is stability and respect around the country. The table has been set for him, now he needs to capitalize on the recruiting trail. Do that the wins will follow.

I would like to see 5-6 wins this season and 6-7 next.

[MeanGreenTexan]

5 minutes ago, xyresic said:

...

I would like to see 5-6 wins this season and 6-7 next.

Unacceptable unless we are ravaged by injuries.

He can take credit for turning a 1-win team into a 5-win team, but he will get killed here if he does not continue that momentum.    Stagnation =/= success.

[MGNation92]

17 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Unacceptable unless we are ravaged by injuries.

He can take credit for turning a 1-win team into a 5-win team, but he will get killed here if he does not continue that momentum.    Stagnation =/= success.

Yeah even at 6-6 I'll be mildly disappointed.

The fact that anyone would even be happy with less with that next season is complacent

Like I said earlier. This contract is gonna look really stupid on Wren and crew if we do any less than 6-6

[Ryan Munthe]

If we're paying this guy a million dollars, we need to be competing for the CUSA championship every year and that's not debatable...and beating University of Texas Sorta Almost every year.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Ryan Munthe

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

Yeah even at 6-6 I'll be mildly disappointed.

The fact that anyone would even be happy with less with that next season is complacent

Like I said earlier. This contract is gonna look really stupid on Wren and crew if we do any less than 6-6

6-6 may wind up being OK if we get hammered by injuries (especially on the lines).  I'll give Littrell the benefit of the doubt due to what he was able to do with 2016's squad.  I expect 6-7 wins this year.   Anything more is gravy.  Anything less should open him up to a ton of criticism with the amount of money he's being paid.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

Littrell is not P5 material yet.  Anyone who believes P5 were "sniffing" him after this season is completely lost.

If we win a lot of games, and I mean more than nine, a lower P5, such as a Kansas or Indiana or Washington State, might sniff around at him.  But, it's vastly more likely that a "higher up" G5 takes him - Tulsa, Houston, Memphis, New Mexico, San Diego State, for example.

The only mid-range bite, with a lot of wins, would be Texas Tech once they go belly up yet again under Hairgel Hands.  Tech is so stupid that they might hire Littrell if he only wins six here and Hairgel Hands pisses away yet another season up there.

Be that as it may, if we can now spend $1million a year on a coach, let's do better than a Leach-like offensive coordinator next time around. 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

[BillySee58]

3 hours ago, Cerebus said:

Really my main concern.  We keep hearing about P5 schools creeping, but even if you believe that you have to imagine in was for an OC position.  He might be a great OC, but he isn't going to be a great HC unless his staff wins more recruiting battles.  

I have a real hard time believing ADs, Presidents, and major donors at P5 schools would all be able to get behind a coach with such pedestrian recruiting results. A la Arizona State with June Jones. I know there was more to that situation than just recruiting, but still.

[Mean Green 93-98]

5 hours ago, oldguystudent said:

The college football arms race is amazing to me.  Not directed at any school or person.  Just an observation of the intense increase in spending over the past 25 years.  I'm kinda surprised that those schools who ultimately dropped football tended to do so in the nineties before things even really began to get expensive.  I'd suppose all remaining are in it for the long haul. 

With the desiccation of TV money, I wonder how much higher this race can go.  That's especially true among G5 schools, but P5 schools who average under 60k or so in attendance (unless they have a T. Boone or Phil Knight) will be left in the dust of programs like Bama, Texas, and Ohio State who have seemingly endless resources to fund athletics.

[MeanGreen_MBA]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Unacceptable unless we are ravaged by injuries.

He can take credit for turning a 1-win team into a 5-win team, but he will get killed here if he does not continue that momentum.    Stagnation =/= success.

Look at what PJ Fleck did at Western Michigan.  SL has had a much better 1st year....quick turn-arounds can happen....

Year	Team	Overall	Conference	Standing	Bowl/playoffs	Coaches#	AP°
Western Michigan Broncos (Mid-American Conference) (2013–2016)
2013	Western Michigan	1–11	1–7	T–5th (West)
2014	Western Michigan	8–5	6–2	3rd (West)	L Famous Idaho Potato
2015	Western Michigan	8–5	6–2	T–1st (West)	W Bahamas
2016	Western Michigan	13–1	8–0	1st (West)	L Cotton†	18	15

 

[MGNation92]

Just now, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Look at what PJ Fleck did at Western Michigan.  SL has had a much better 1st year....quick turn-arounds can happen....

Year	Team	Overall	Conference	Standing	Bowl/playoffs	Coaches#	AP°
Western Michigan Broncos (Mid-American Conference) (2013–2016)
2013	Western Michigan	1–11	1–7	T–5th (West)
2014	Western Michigan	8–5	6–2	3rd (West)	L Famous Idaho Potato
2015	Western Michigan	8–5	6–2	T–1st (West)	W Bahamas
2016	Western Michigan	13–1	8–0	1st (West)	L Cotton†	18	15

 

I'll happily eat a heaping pile of crow if we go 8-5 next year with 6 conference wins. I just don't see it happening.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

1 hour ago, BillySee58 said:

I have a real hard time believing ADs, Presidents, and major donors at P5 schools would all be able to get behind a coach with such pedestrian recruiting results. A la Arizona State with June Jones. I know there was more to that situation than just recruiting, but still.

Exactly.  Also, although some posters here somehow believe public speaking isn't an important factor (now that we have a coach who doesn't seem to like it), it is a big function at bigger schools.  Not convinced Littrell has to persona yet to be the face of the P5 program the way coaches are expected to do.

Again, take Texas Tech as the glaring example.  They're 24-26 (13-23 in the Big 12) in the four years with Hairgel Hands.  Yet, Hairgel Hands, right or wrong, is still the selling point.   

[untjim1995]

t wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Texas Tech go after Frank Wilson at UTSA if the Red Raiders are bad again, as predicted, and UTSA is as good as expected. Wilson is a huge recruiter and will have some skins on the wall to sell the Tech alumni on...

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

39 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

t wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Texas Tech go after Frank Wilson at UTSA if the Red Raiders are bad again, as predicted, and UTSA is as good as expected. Wilson is a huge recruiter and will have some skins on the wall to sell the Tech alumni on...

My guess on Tech is they go after OU's offensive coordinator, inasmuch as he's a former Red Raider player and coach who has done well enough as OC at a big stop.

My conjecture with Littrell is Tulsa or Houston, perhaps San Diego State if Rocky Long steps down.  I know Houston just hired Applewhite, but after a year or three, Littrell will have been here for awhile, and just based on what Applewhite did at Texas, I don't see great things from him at Houston.

If Tulsa continues to win under Philip Montgomery, I think he's hired away by a P5 after this season.

Edited May 31, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

[@UNTSportsFan]

12 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

My guess on Tech is they go after OU's offensive coordinator, inasmuch as he's a former Red Raider player and coach who has done well enough as OC at a big stop.

My conjecture with Littrell is Tulsa or Houston, perhaps San Diego State if Rocky Long steps down.  I know Houston just hired Applewhite, but after a year or three, Littrell will have been here for awhile, and just based on what Applewhite did at Texas, I don't see great things from him at Houston.

If Tulsa continues to win under Philip Montgomery, I think he's hired away by a P5 after this season.

We'd probably be more likely to lose Seth to OU as their OC than to a p5 head coaching gig 

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

2 minutes ago, @UNTSportsFan said:

We'd probably be more likely to lose Seth to OU as their OC than to a p5 head coaching gig 

I've thought that, too.  However, if Montgomery is hired away, the TU job is open.  Littrell's (and his wife's) family is just up the road in Muskogee.  Can't see that he'd pass up head coaching gig.  Although, OU OC makes $1.3 million to TU's HC at $1 million.

So...guess it would be a matter of whether he'd want to continue to be The Man wherever he goes.

Of course...it all hinges on the assumption that he wins here first.

[Ryan Munthe]

20 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

I've thought that, too.  However, if Montgomery is hired away, the TU job is open.  Littrell's (and his wife's) family is just up the road in Muskogee.  Can't see that he'd pass up head coaching gig.  Although, OU OC makes $1.3 million to TU's HC at $1 million.

So...guess it would be a matter of whether he'd want to continue to be The Man wherever he goes.

Of course...it all hinges on the assumption that he wins here first.

TU would have to triple their salary to match us though. Plus the buyout, I wouldn't worry about Tulsa.