What Unt Doesnt Bring

[Dr. Seuss]

Simple Answer is what NT doesnt bring......FINANCIAL ENDOWMENT, and fan support. Im one of the biggest North Texas fans at this school and even I know that we dont compare to SMU. According to wikipedia we only got 87.8 million in endowments. TCU got 105 million by 34 donors for their stadium. I know UNT needs to show people that they can win first and then the money will come but come on. South Alabama recieved 250 mil and they dont even have a football team. I know we have around 100k alums in the dfw but seriously 87.3 million is nothing compared to the schools in CUSA and MWC. Then if we have 100k in alum in the DFW why dont they go to the games, or 36k in students. No one cares besides the guys on this board. I know it hurts but we all have to sell this program because Mac and RV cant do it themselves. I belive in will all start off with winning, but why bring in Houston and Indina?? We need W's on the board, ones that will bring a better chance than UH and IU. I think we can beat them but I also thought we could beat Rice and Army(in 2009). We only get fans to go to one game and thats Homecoming, why only Homecoming??? I live for college football, when I graduate ill be a MGC Member and be a Season ticket holder. Look at the majority of other schools, they get close to selling out their stadium with haft the alum and students in the area and we cant even do it when we 4x the amount of people (that our holds) within the metroplex. Whos more recognized in the country. Every time I go out and tell people where I go, I say UNT and there response is "oh UT, how about those longhorns." Sorry to burst your bubble but until we start getting more known as a "real" college instead of NTSTC, liberal art college, or music school we will always be looked over by TCU and SMU. I believe it will with our football program but right now were sitting on our couches watching the game while TCU and SMU are going to the games. I know im just preaching to the choir but its my little rant

Im just a student but even I got my parents to donate and even their companies to start donating.

As always,

GMG

[Hunter Green]

I feel your pain. This has been a sore spot for all of us for a long time. Up until a few years ago, vision for this fine university was not exactly something that was in abundance. I have always felt that the prior administrations were short sighted and that NT was just a little teachers school/music school. Neither group gives back alot in terms of financial support. However, under the current leadership, NT now has a grand vision and a direction. Starting with a Division 1 athletic department, (thank you Drs. Pohl, Bataile, Rawlins, BOR) and the development/advancement of our medical school, school of engineering, the UNT School of Law, the new Business school, and our newly attained Teir One status, our fine university should take a back seat to no one.

These are difficult economic times, but UNT is poised to be a major player in the world of academics and athletics. It may take awhile, but as the late Dr. Pohl stated, and I paraphrase, "athletics is the window through which we are viewed."

The pieces are in place. Positioning ourselves in a more visable and viable athletic conference will, I believe, catapult us to the next level of greatness.

Keep the faith, go to games, give what you can, and Go Mean Green!

[GreenMachine]

Simple Answer is what NT doesnt bring......FINANCIAL ENDOWMENT, and fan support. Im one of the biggest North Texas fans at this school and even I know that we dont compare to SMU. According to wikipedia we only got 87.8 million in endowments. TCU got 105 million by 34 donors for their stadium. I know UNT needs to show people that they can win first and then the money will come but come on. South Alabama recieved 250 mil and they dont even have a football team. I know we have around 100k alums in the dfw but seriously 87.3 million is nothing compared to the schools in CUSA and MWC. Then if we have 100k in alum in the DFW why dont they go to the games, or 36k in students. No one cares besides the guys on this board. I know it hurts but we all have to sell this program because Mac and RV cant do it themselves. I belive in will all start off with winning, but why bring in Houston and Indina?? We need W's on the board, ones that will bring a better chance than UH and IU. I think we can beat them but I also thought we could beat Rice and Army(in 2009). We only get fans to go to one game and thats Homecoming, why only Homecoming??? I live for college football, when I graduate ill be a MGC Member and be a Season ticket holder. Look at the majority of other schools, they get close to selling out their stadium with haft the alum and students in the area and we cant even do it when we 4x the amount of people (that our holds) within the metroplex. Whos more recognized in the country. Every time I go out and tell people where I go, I say UNT and there response is "oh UT, how about those longhorns." Sorry to burst your bubble but until we start getting more known as a "real" college instead of NTSTC, liberal art college, or music school we will always be looked over by TCU and SMU. I believe it will with our football program but right now were sitting on our couches watching the game while TCU and SMU are going to the games. I know im just preaching to the choir but its my little rant

Im just a student but even I got my parents to donate and even their companies to start donating.

As always,

GMG

I posted something similar to this a few years back and got totally blasted for it. I agree with your post, especially the part about getting past being just a liberal art or music school. We bitch and moan about alumns not donating a lot of money then sit back and brag about what a great music program we have. Many people even within the DFW area don't know squat about our music school and don't care. I'm sure that as a music grad if you make it as a professional musician you can make decent, not great, money but on average they probably don't make a lot. I know some fans that are teachers and they are some of the most dedicated alum we have but they aren't gong to be able to donate a large sum of money. We need to start promoting the business and engineering schools. These schools are going to crank out alum that have a greater earning capacity than musicians or teachers or artists. Not knocking other areas of study at all its just that, like you stated, we have to quit being looked at as just a liberal art or music school at promote ourselves differently in the future.

[KRAM1]

Im just a student but even I got my parents to donate and even their companies to start donating.

+1 for you, sir. Thank you for having the vision and the capacity to think forward and positively about your university. This is, in fact, the thing, more than any other, that will force people to stand up and take notice of UNT. When the alumni, students, faculty and staff start believing and start spreading the word...the positive word...about UNT others will take notice. As long as UNT is its own worst enemy when it comes to public perception endowments, respect, etc. will continue to lag.

The "good news" is that this old and tired perception of UNT is beginning to change. And, it will change for the better because of the attitude you display in your post. Too many tend to look for the "bad" in UNT first and if they cannot find any they think positive thoughts and say positive things. When one expects "bad" and "negative" one can definitely find "bad" and "negative". This "good" and "positive" and you will find "good" and "positive" and you will find the "good and positive" far outweigh the "negative" and "bad". Amazing now that happens in everything that goes on in one's life.

I had a UNT staffer tell me the other day that he gets tired of people...UNT's own people and students...running the university down. he said, "you know, not every decision made on this campus is a bad one. We have some very bright and very intelligent people working hard to make this a premier institution, and it's way past time that others started taking notice and giving UNT some credit for all the good that is going on here these days." I tend to agree. Way too often UNT's own do more to further a "negative" perception of UNT than any outsider ever could.

Things are changing in a good way at UNT. Time to be proud, talk positive and spread the good news. Thanks, Dr. Seuss, for getting it! And...yes, GO MEAN GREEN!

[Green Mean]

Athletics play a huge part in the endowment numbers skyrocketing. If we continue success in basketball and start success in football combined with being relevant nationally then that should create more donations. Other than that as long as it keeps on pointing up(even if it is little by little) I am happy and that is all we really want.

[FirefightnRick]

Simple Answer is what NT doesnt bring......FINANCIAL ENDOWMENT, and fan support. Im one of the biggest North Texas fans at this school and even I know that we dont compare to SMU. According to wikipedia we only got 87.8 million in endowments. TCU got 105 million by 34 donors for their stadium. I know UNT needs to show people that they can win first and then the money will come but come on. South Alabama recieved 250 mil and they dont even have a football team. I know we have around 100k alums in the dfw but seriously 87.3 million is nothing compared to the schools in CUSA and MWC. Then if we have 100k in alum in the DFW why dont they go to the games, or 36k in students. No one cares besides the guys on this board. I know it hurts but we all have to sell this program because Mac and RV cant do it themselves. I belive in will all start off with winning, but why bring in Houston and Indina?? We need W's on the board, ones that will bring a better chance than UH and IU. I think we can beat them but I also thought we could beat Rice and Army(in 2009). We only get fans to go to one game and thats Homecoming, why only Homecoming??? I live for college football, when I graduate ill be a MGC Member and be a Season ticket holder. Look at the majority of other schools, they get close to selling out their stadium with haft the alum and students in the area and we cant even do it when we 4x the amount of people (that our holds) within the metroplex. Whos more recognized in the country. Every time I go out and tell people where I go, I say UNT and there response is "oh UT, how about those longhorns." Sorry to burst your bubble but until we start getting more known as a "real" college instead of NTSTC, liberal art college, or music school we will always be looked over by TCU and SMU. I believe it will with our football program but right now were sitting on our couches watching the game while TCU and SMU are going to the games. I know im just preaching to the choir but its my little rant

Im just a student but even I got my parents to donate and even their companies to start donating.

As always,

GMG

Well said. You have obviously, in a short period of time figured out what many here mentioned during our coaching search, that North Texas is a very different culture than most.

But simply look at this message board for a prime example:

"I'll buy season tickets when we start winning, or when this coach is hired or that coach is fired......". Or, "Hey, I'm coming to the game, can someone here give me a free $8 ticket?..."

This board is made up of many members who still want others to do the heavy lifting while they themselves sluff along with their conditional support. If this is the attitude with many of our most loyal followers then what does it say about the general graduate who hasn't been keeping up at all? This has to end, and I think with the new excitement with the stadium, Coach Mac and with the success the basketball team is experiencing we will get there.

As greenjoe would say, Buy season tickets and join the Mean Green Club now,....or in your case, as soon as you can.

Rick

[TheColonyEagle]

This has been like turning a battle ship, no question.

But I think what we're starting to see is the generational shift from student to future alumni. RV started it when he first got here and that freshman class started trading in longhorn and OU hats for Mean Green Hats. I think that's what has helped keep our attendance respectable in spite of our record. I can only imagine what the attendance would have been when I was a student and we were 6-37.

The graduating class this year has seen school spirit on the rise and the juniors this year saw it for 3 years and the sophomores for 2, etc. etc.

Think about the freshmen coming on campus next fall. This will probably be the most spirited group of freshmen to ever be on the campus because of the new stadium and the things the administration has done. Now imagine when they're seniors and they have bigger and more involved classes coming behind them. They'll all be alumni. They'll be alumni coming from a different foundation than what many of us came from.

This culture has been torture to change but I think the shift is big and is going to pick up steam. When crowds of students and community involvement picks up, businesses start to notice and want to be a part of it....because now it means money in their pocket from advertising, etc. There's going to be a big green snowball start to tumble down hill.

We're going to look around in 3-4 years and say, "So this is what big time college athletics looks like."

[ColoradoEagle]

We'll just have to see what happens now that the school is actually taking football seriously. Up until two weeks ago, we were playing in a stadium that should have been renovated or torn down before coming back to D1-A instead of adding metal bleachers. Our coach for the past few years was a high school coach. I know that's going to burn some people, but can you imagine how that must have sounded to average joe Longhorn fan UNT alum? More of the same from NT, they don't care about football.

There's nothing engrained at NT saying that people will never come out and support the school. They just won't come out and support something that's not winning on the national scale. Watch what attendance and giving are like after that first appearance in the top 25.

Edited December 7, 2010 by ColoradoEagle

[eppy4life]

I donate my time on this website. Doesn't that count for something?

[emmitt01]

I donate my time on this website. Doesn't that count for something?

IF you were being serious, no. Im sorry but its time we stopped pulling punchez. "Free" wont turn this little engine that could into a 300 car freight train! Look at the article about the new season ticket prices. Some guy commented that he would save his money for his doctoral studies. No problem, his perogative. The problem comes in somebody responding to his post that he should come on THIS board next season and ask for free tickets! Do we want to go big time? Or do we want to continue being the program, the school, of last and cheapest resort?

[houstonmeangreen]

This has been like turning a battle ship, no question.

But I think what we're starting to see is the generational shift from student to future alumni. RV started it when he first got here and that freshman class started trading in longhorn and OU hats for Mean Green Hats. I think that's what has helped keep our attendance respectable in spite of our record. I can only imagine what the attendance would have been when I was a student and we were 6-37.

The graduating class this year has seen school spirit on the rise and the juniors this year saw it for 3 years and the sophomores for 2, etc. etc.

Think about the freshmen coming on campus next fall. This will probably be the most spirited group of freshmen to ever be on the campus because of the new stadium and the things the administration has done. Now imagine when they're seniors and they have bigger and more involved classes coming behind them. They'll all be alumni. They'll be alumni coming from a different foundation than what many of us came from.

This culture has been torture to change but I think the shift is big and is going to pick up steam. When crowds of students and community involvement picks up, businesses start to notice and want to be a part of it....because now it means money in their pocket from advertising, etc. There's going to be a big green snowball start to tumble down hill.

We're going to look around in 3-4 years and say, "So this is what big time college athletics looks like."

This culture has been torture to change but I think the shift is big and is going to pick up steam. When crowds of students and community involvement picks up, businesses start to notice and want to be a part of it....because now it means money in their pocket from advertising, etc. There's going to be a big green snowball start to tumble down hill.

We're going to look around in 3-4 years and say, "So this is what big time college athletics looks like

I think this is on the money when it comes to UNT....the change in admin and coaching are big....the new stadium is even bigger...but the change in CULTURE is huge...and this is taking place right now....I have seen such a change in student support and students wanting to be active in supporting the Meangreen...it will only get bigger and unt football will take its place in the upper levels of mid majors....remarkable changes in the next 5 years.

[WIFE2HOT4U]

IMO – we have TOO many transfers.

Having kids on campus all 4 years will help, I think when we allow so many transfer students – they just want to finish up their last 2 years and get out.

HERE IS THE PROBLEM!

More students transfer to UNT than to any other university in Texas, according to U.S. News & World Report’s America’s Best Colleges 2010. In fact, UNT was 4th nationally among public universities.

[Mean Green 93-98]

IMO – we have TOO many transfers.

Having kids on campus all 4 years will help, I think when we allow so many transfer students – they just want to finish up their last 2 years and get out.

HERE IS THE PROBLEM!

More students transfer to UNT than to any other university in Texas, according to U.S. News & World Report’s America’s Best Colleges 2010. In fact, UNT was 4th nationally among public universities.

Interesting observation. Of course, the statistic "4th nationally" does not refer to percentage of students who are transfers. With a student body the size of UNT's, we might also rank pretty high nationally in the "most freshmen" statistic as well.

I'm not denying that there are a lot of transfer students who are like you describe, but I personally transferred to UNT as a junior after having attended another college, and I always supported athletics and continue to financially support UNT over my previous alma mater. I knew many other transfer students who were rabid supporters of UNT athletics, and I have known students who came to UNT as freshmen who never cared a lick about athletics.

While the high number of transfer students might be a factor in student apathy, I would be reticent to call it THE PROBLEM.

[GrandGreen]

Too many transfers? I went to NT in the late sixties, almost all my friends had like me started out somewhere else. I only went to NT for two years and that has not dampened my interest. The facts are with tuition soaring a good segment of students are going to go through community colleges. NT's primary mission is education is it not? Commuters, older students working and going to school part time, graduate students and juco transfers are always going to represent a large percentage of NT's enrollment. The future looks like more and more on-line students, the ultimate in not involved. I would guess the the traditional four year student will be less and less of the total student population. My point all the student groups can be pulled in as NT fans for life with a good athletic program. Heck, the majority of UT fans for instance never entered one classroom at UT.

Everyone normally gets fired up to some extent with every new head coach. Look at Dodge, how many posts did I read afraid that he was just using NT as a stepping stone and would soon move on to bigger things. The difference this time is that not only has NT upped the ante, and brought in a legitimate experienced head coach but it also has a lot more going for it. A new stadium, increased financing, and a pro-athletic administration. Add that to the advantages that NT has always had such as geography and size and there is a lot of reason for much higher expectations. It won't be easy and it won't happen overnight but it is going to happen, NT is going to move up substantially in the athletic world.

[FloMoGrad]

Rick hit the nail on the head. Every Mean Green fan should have 3 goals, as fans, each year. Make a donation to the MGC, any donation. Buy Football season tickets. Buy BB season tickets.

It's pretty much as simple as that. More we support the Athletic Dept, more change we'll see and the higher we can raise our expectations.

UNT fans love to look around and blame everyone but themselves, but our program, it's perceptions and it's ultimate destination are pinned squarely on the backs of the fans that support the program. More money coming in, more pressure on the programs to perform and the Administration to uphold their end of the bargain.

And my wife transferred in from A&M while I transferred in from an out-of-state soccer scholarship. Both attended games while in school and both claim UNT as our school. She even had a class ring from A&M before she transferred, long story there, that she never wears. Nobody gave me a thing, so I feel proud of the degree I earned from UNT.

And keep in mind, you close the transfer door, you close out future alumni like myself, who take the burden squarely upon our shoulders to move the perception and status of our alma mater forward.

My 2 worthless cents...

Edited December 7, 2010 by FloMoGrad

[TodgeRodge]

1. UNT has a goal for their endowment.....they want it to be 215.4 million BY 2020......never mind that the HB51 "tier 1" criteria (one criteria out of 6 with 4 of the 6 needing to be met along with the required 45 million in restricted research UNT is at 17 million in total research currently some of that is not dollars that would count under restricted research)

UNT currently has no actual plan in place as to how they will add $125 million over the next 10 years to the endowment, but at least they have set a goal if only a very marginal one

2. the law school is going to be a disaster for UNT......it already is a disaster for UNT.....the THECB did a study and that study clearly stated there is zero need for additional law schools in Texas and if there was a need for a new law school in Texas it would be in South Texas not the DFW area.....dallas HAS NOT come through with the needed dollars to renovate the exterior of the building they were going to donate to UNT and I doubt the will......this is the reason that UNT is going to PAY THEMSELVES (that means you students in Denton) to renovate some of the upper floors of the UCD to start law classes there......this was part of the dispute that Dr. B and worthless jackson had.......Dr. B and the President of TAMU-Commerce do not like the way the UCD is being run by worthless and they told worthless that they wanted to pull out of the UCD and then UNT could use the current space in the UCD to hold law classes and there would be no need to spend (waste) additional student and state dollars to renovate more floors of the UCD that would be left vacant if and when UNT law moved to the building they are suppose to use.....UNT does not have the dollars to renovate the interior of that building as well so even if dallas did renovate the exterior it is questionable if UNT would be able to renovate the interior in the near or longer term

also many of you may not realize this, but short of initial start up cost the law school will need to be entirely SELF FUNDING......The State of Texas will make no funding contributions towards the running of the UNT law school.....this WILL be an issue because I see no way it will be self funding.....which means Denton students will probably pay for it.....although I am of the belief the law school will be quietly killed off for good in the next legislative session when no additional start up funding beyond the current 5 million that was allocated in the past will be made available

not to mention the horrible state of legal employment currently and for the LONG TERM FUTURE in Texas and the USA

3. if winning football really mattered long term for the endowment then UTD wuld not have a 275 million dollar endowment and TxState would not have the same endowment as UNT

4. the engineering programs at UNT are massively underfunded and they have a hard time attracting and more importantly retaining faculty.....just go look at their web pages, count the faculty members in each department and then go to the college of engineering websites for any university you feel is comparable to UNT and do the same...and remember it is hard to promote things when you are looking to possibly cut one of them again.....like the construction ETEC program

[GreenAlums]

IF you were being serious, no. Im sorry but its time we stopped pulling punchez. "Free" wont turn this little engine that could into a 300 car freight train! Look at the article about the new season ticket prices. Some guy commented that he would save his money for his doctoral studies. No problem, his perogative. The problem comes in somebody responding to his post that he should come on THIS board next season and ask for free tickets! Do we want to go big time? Or do we want to continue being the program, the school, of last and cheapest resort?

Both? THEN we could be the best. Nothing wrong with value in an economy that demands effeciency.

[forevereagle]

I too am a transfer to UNT (via TCC) and I am very active as a fan of the university. I also work with a couple of people who transferred from Baylor. One is not a sports fan, so he doesn't really play into this, the other still actively follows Baylor more than UNT (though he is interested in the new stadium and will likely return for some games this year). I don't think that transfers are the issue so much as getting them involved once they are on campus. This is a group that behaves differently depending on their situation.

[UNTLifer]

The problem comes in somebody responding to his post that he should come on THIS board next season and ask for free tickets!

I understand what you are saying emmitt, but I think the purpose of the person that posted that is to get this person to a game period, and the experience would win them over as full fledged fans.

[NT80]

We'll just have to see what happens now that the school is actually taking football seriously.

To be taken really seriously in football UNT needs out of the SunBelt, plain and simple. Conference membership is status, much more than stadium size or name of head coach.

The new stadium will be a wonderful, long-needed upgrade and the hiring of a qualified head coach is a step in the right diredtion too. But overall image is everything. To potential new customers the SunBelt does not have good brand appeal. Just look at the articles flaunting new season tickets...Houston is the lead bait as opponent, no mention of the home SBC schedule.

We have secured two of three marketing priorities, we should keep a vigorus pace toward the third.

[ColoradoEagle]

To be taken really seriously in football UNT needs out of the SunBelt, plain and simple. Conference membership is status, much more than stadium size or name of head coach.

The new stadium will be a wonderful, long-needed upgrade and the hiring of a qualified head coach is a step in the right diredtion too. But overall image is everything. To potential new customers the SunBelt does not have good brand appeal. Just look at the articles flaunting new season tickets...Houston is the lead bait as opponent, no mention of the home SBC schedule.

We have secured two of three marketing priorities, we should keep a vigorus pace toward the third.

Sure, but the school can't control that, at least not directly. What I meant is that the school could directly contribute $15,000,000 to the athletic bottom line like Houston does, but instead they contribute $12,000. They could have started a capital campaign in the early 90s, but instead they settled with metal bleachers. They could have found a way to hire Coach Mac in 2006 (or similar), but instead we hired a high school coach.

The administration now seems like it's taking athletics more seriously, and maybe that's all that is needed for us to move conferences when the opportunity is presented.

[NT80]

Sure, but the school can't control that, at least not directly. What I meant is that the school could directly contribute $15,000,000 to the athletic bottom line like Houston does, but instead they contribute $12,000. They could have started a capital campaign in the early 90s, but instead they settled with metal bleachers. They could have found a way to hire Coach Mac in 2006 (or similar), but instead we hired a high school coach.

The administration now seems like it's taking athletics more seriously, and maybe that's all that is needed for us to move conferences when the opportunity is presented.

I agree. NT administration finally realized that quick-fix and inexpensive was was not the right way. RV has changed the culture for athletic spending; it's now time for fans to change their culture of giving and buying into the program like those larger programs that we want to be like. More attendance and donors = a better chance of being picked up in conference expansions.

[KRAM1]

1. UNT has a goal for their endowment.....they want it to be 215.4 million BY 2020......never mind that the HB51 "tier 1" criteria (one criteria out of 6 with 4 of the 6 needing to be met along with the required 45 million in restricted research UNT is at 17 million in total research currently some of that is not dollars that would count under restricted research)

UNT currently has no actual plan in place as to how they will add $125 million over the next 10 years to the endowment, but at least they have set a goal if only a very marginal one

2. the law school is going to be a disaster for UNT......it already is a disaster for UNT.....the THECB did a study and that study clearly stated there is zero need for additional law schools in Texas and if there was a need for a new law school in Texas it would be in South Texas not the DFW area.....dallas HAS NOT come through with the needed dollars to renovate the exterior of the building they were going to donate to UNT and I doubt the will......this is the reason that UNT is going to PAY THEMSELVES (that means you students in Denton) to renovate some of the upper floors of the UCD to start law classes there......this was part of the dispute that Dr. B and worthless jackson had.......Dr. B and the President of TAMU-Commerce do not like the way the UCD is being run by worthless and they told worthless that they wanted to pull out of the UCD and then UNT could use the current space in the UCD to hold law classes and there would be no need to spend (waste) additional student and state dollars to renovate more floors of the UCD that would be left vacant if and when UNT law moved to the building they are suppose to use.....UNT does not have the dollars to renovate the interior of that building as well so even if dallas did renovate the exterior it is questionable if UNT would be able to renovate the interior in the near or longer term

also many of you may not realize this, but short of initial start up cost the law school will need to be entirely SELF FUNDING......The State of Texas will make no funding contributions towards the running of the UNT law school.....this WILL be an issue because I see no way it will be self funding.....which means Denton students will probably pay for it.....although I am of the belief the law school will be quietly killed off for good in the next legislative session when no additional start up funding beyond the current 5 million that was allocated in the past will be made available

not to mention the horrible state of legal employment currently and for the LONG TERM FUTURE in Texas and the USA

3. if winning football really mattered long term for the endowment then UTD wuld not have a 275 million dollar endowment and TxState would not have the same endowment as UNT

4. the engineering programs at UNT are massively underfunded and they have a hard time attracting and more importantly retaining faculty.....just go look at their web pages, count the faculty members in each department and then go to the college of engineering websites for any university you feel is comparable to UNT and do the same...and remember it is hard to promote things when you are looking to possibly cut one of them again.....like the construction ETEC program

Always so positive...thanks for your input. So, what actual data tells you that the law school will be a disaster? I am just curious as I have not seen any data on that point. If so, that means everyone involved with trying to start the UNT Law School is an idiot and have their heads up their rear ends, right? They must have done absolutely ZERO pre-planning and pre-study and the approving boards all fell asleep and just rubber-stamped the thing, right? Really, I don't know, but this sort of thinking leads to the idea that UNT is "second rate" in its leadership and is looking to "fail". It is also the sort of comments that I refer to when I state that way too many people want to only see the negative and bad in everything UNT does. While no expert on law schools, I would think that a public law school in the north Texas area would have a better than average chance of being successful as there is no other public law school in the area.

You might want to ask schools like Notre Dame, USC, Penn State, OSU, OU, Texas, etc., etc. what a winning football and athletic program does for their endowments. And, perhaps you might want to chat with President Rawlins about that as well.

I am not that familiar with the engineering school at UNT, but I would guess that it takes a bit of time to sort things out and find where your strengths and weaknesses are before one settles into a solid program. Heck, programs even in the social sciences have seen funding cuts and staff turn over and those programs have been around a lot longer than engineering on the UNT campus.

If you want the endowments to grow and grow in the areas you discuss, then start donating yourself and start building the program and UNT up to everyone you come in contact with...starting perhaps by looking into the closest mirror you can find...and stop being so quick to criticize and bitch about everything that is UNT. There are lots of things you cannot do anything about, but you CAN do something about your own attitude. It starts there.....

GO MEAN GREEN!

[TodgeRodge]

Sure, but the school can't control that, at least not directly. What I meant is that the school could directly contribute $15,000,000 to the athletic bottom line like Houston does, but instead they contribute $12,000. They could have started a capital campaign in the early 90s, but instead they settled with metal bleachers. They could have found a way to hire Coach Mac in 2006 (or similar), but instead we hired a high school coach.

The administration now seems like it's taking athletics more seriously, and maybe that's all that is needed for us to move conferences when the opportunity is presented.

http://www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financial_reports/revenue_stat/show

I see UH with $3,537,318 in student fees and $8,900,000 in direct institutional support for a total of $12,437,318

I see UNT with $4,315,679 in student fees and this is before the $7 kicks in (although most if not all that 4 million will probably be replaced) and with the $7 fee UNT will be closer to or just above $7 million in student fees

UH has a much larger endowment and that is probably where a large portion of the 8.9 million comes from since state funding can't be used and tuition would more than likely be listed as student fees

so your numbers seem a bit off

[ColoradoEagle]

I was using USA Today which is a couple years out of date, however I doubt too much has changed.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/ncaa-finances.htm