Facilities tour by Leadership

[GreenMachine]

5 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

List the number of UNT football players - or, players from any other outside sport such as softball, soccer, tennis, or track and field - who have died from heat stroke, either in practice or competition.  It's a completely false argument.

The sun will be hot in September; no amount of indoor facilities will change that on game day.

All of the things on your final list have either been updated and added without an indoor facility.  This is just another space with more of the same stuff, and using money we could spend on better coaches. If they want more, they can build more without building an airplane hanger with a football field inside of it.

It's a plaything to say, "Look!  Now we have one, too!"  There is no competitive advantage to having one; especially in a part of the country where inclement weather is rarely a factor. 

If indoor practice facilities made a real difference, it would be Syracuse winning national title after national title.  They've been practicing indoors since 1980.  They have three winning seasons in the past 14...and zero national titles. 

We will take our lowly rated recruiting classes and coddle them from the elements one or two days out of the year...with coaches we can't afford to keep longer than a season or two if they turn out to be half decent.  It would be laughable if it weren't reality.

Do you think all these other Universities would spend money on an IPF if it was necessary or needed? You are fighting a losing battle on this one.

5 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Thank you.

Also, once it's built, it changes nothing competitively - otherwise, every school that already had one would be winning more.  There is no evidence of that anywhere.  Kansas State owning the Longhorns is a great example.

At the end of the day, the nine to 11 guys on the offensive and defensive line have to stick their hands on the ground and get the play rolling, every play.  No amount of practicing indoors changes that.  Never has, never will.

There are plenty of airplane hangers - along with indoor facilities already within two hours drive of the UNT campus.  They didn't need to fly up to Liberty to look at their version of airplane hanger football field. 

We're scraping the bottom of the barrel for football coaches, yet people are getting wood about an indoor football field in a city where inclement weather effect the football team about zero to two times per year!

 

Your logic is flawed. Say Syracuse goes 6-6 every year and they have an IPF. Without it, how do you know they don't go 3-9 every year? Thus, the IPF does make them more competitive.

[TreeFiddy]

Who's to say that without an IPF that Syracuse wouldn't still be in the AAC?  

[FirefightnRick]

5 hours ago, meanrob said:

There are so many errors in this I don't know where to start. 

You do realize Miami OH has been absolutely horrible at football until their 6-7 record this year. They won 5 games in the previous three years. Haywood had one good year other than that their coaches have been abysmal.   

Memphis didn't get better because of facilities, they got better because of Justin Fuente. In the three years before Fuente they won five games and fired two coaches. 

Marshall has an IPF. Built in 2015. Finished 3-9 this year. Before they built it they were doing just fine. I'm sure it makes it easier to practice but their great quarterback made it easier to win. 

Northern Illinois went 46-10 from 2010-2013. In late 2013 they opened their IPF. The last two years they went 13-13. Maybe it was more that they had a run of great head coaches and quarterbacks than any facility. 

And finally, La Tech continues to succeed and beat our brains out in every high profile sport and we have better facilities.

I could care less if we build a gazillion dollar IPF palace but the idea that these facilities produce any kind of cause and effect is utter nonsense. If it did, we'd have a better record than everybody with a worse stadium than Apogee. How's that worked out for us? So please tell me how Texas State out-recruited us. Troy too. As far as I can tell neither have an indoor facility and both have worse stadiums than us and are in a lower conference. Hell ULM was 20 spots higher than us in the recruiting rankings. As far as record and recruiting-wise since Apogee opened we're one of the worst programs in the country. Where's the effect? 

 

SL has been successful in turning us around- You do know he had the same first year record as Mac. I hope to the football gods SL is a great coach but turned us around? Hardly. He's still got a lot to prove. And I would rather do everything financially I could to keep and attract coaches rather than just say "well, they're going to go anyway' and use that money somewhere else. 

Coaches win. Coaches recruit. It's a people business, period. 

Finally, Portland State is FCS (I-AA)

 

 

Great post MR.

 

5 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

 

This is where I, and Jordan Murray, went to high school. I was long graduated before this was ever built but this is what they are practicing in. The Cowboys, Bama, etc, have used these facilities for practice. This is similar to the old Fouts argument, you will have a hell of a time selling a kid on your program when the facilities are worse than where they went to high school. Also, I get being tough and all for two-a-days and thew first day or two of weekly practice but there is no reason to do walk-throughs and shell days in the heat. Have your kids at peak stamina/hydration levels for gameday.

Another thing, peering eyes can see through IPF walls.

What's that....a 20 minute drive from NT?

 

LOL!

 

Rick

Edited February 23, 2017 by FirefightnRick

[FirefightnRick]

3 hours ago, UNT Mean Green said:

It's really not impressive compared to the majority of HFC offices in FBS

It would have been had they not had a video board built in front of it.

 

Rick

[Cr1028]

22 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

What's that....a 20 minute drive from NT?

 

LOL!

 

Rick

Touché 

[UNT Mean Green]

11 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

It would have been had they not had a video board built in front of it.

 

Rick

The view would be improved, certainly. But when you compare the size, quality of finish out, etc. of the athletics building and offices compared to the vast majority of FBS universities, ours is severely lacking. It's  more similar to high schools (may be music to your ears, Rick), than our recruiting peers.

[UNTLifer]

20 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Because of the cost... that is why college teams don't do it...

You can make the same argument for why does MLB have domed stadiums and the minors don't...

College Football is about the bells and whistles that you can offer prospects.

So you would be okay paying for a pavilion, instead of an IPF that has offices, weight rooms, offices for other sports as well? If you want a pavilion, then you can't complain when we keep bringing in 2* players. UTSA is selling the hell out of them playing in a dome, because of the benefits it has on the players in terms of the physical stress it puts on the body. Yes they will still practice outside in the heat, because we play in the heat, but having an IPF allows them to practice inside when its unbearable. Also, it will save them from using and practicing on Apogee as well, keeping the costs of field repairs and needing to move equipment all the time as well. On top of it being used by other sports as well.

You sure that's how they are getting players?  What are the benefits in terms of physical stress of playing in a dome as opposed to playing outside?

Edited February 23, 2017 by UNTLifer

[UNTLifer]

Remember Ball State 2013?  They wilted in the Texas heat in the second half.  We, on the other hand, had been practicing in the elements and look at our performance.  I honestly think the IPF argument is ridiculous.  Not needed in my opinion.  Practice in the elements, acclimate and perform in the elements.  I would rather see the money needed for the IPF used to improve that player's training areas, sports med, weight room, etc...

[Mean Green 93-98]

59 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Remember Ball State 2013?  They wilted in the Texas heat in the second half.  We, on the other hand, had been practicing in the elements and look at our performance.  I honestly think the IPF argument is ridiculous.  Not needed in my opinion.  Practice in the elements, acclimate and perform in the elements.  I would rather see the money needed for the IPF used to improve that player's training areas, sports med, weight room, etc...

I agree 100% with everything you're saying.  But for some reason, I doubt too many recruits will concur.

[BTG_Fan1]

3 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

You sure that's how they are getting players?  What are the benefits in terms of physical stress of playing in a dome as opposed to playing outside?

What I'm saying is that its one of the things that UTSA has over UNT.

Football is a very physically- demanding sport as we know. We also know that the heat in Texas when its 95+ without a cloud in the sky puts stress on your body, on top of that wearing pads as well. Combining these together puts a toll on the body, and yes these guys are young and we have all been through it. But if we can reduce this toll leading to them feeling better in terms of being able to study film better instead of being half asleep, or not having lagging injuries from camps or pulled muscles. 

Practicing inside you can monitor and lower the temp to even 70 or 80, while reducing the strain that 95+ with pads. Reducing the stress on players allows these guys to perform better, thus decreasing the likely hood of injury whether is heat related or just muscle recovery time.

On top of it, once again this IPF will be used for multiple different sports. The benefits that this IPF offers will be felt in multiple sports.

[DeepGreen]

I have the answer.  Build a retractable roof IPF and leapfrog all of the competition, P4, G5.........doesn't matter.

And for the record, when our sorely needed Athletic Center was built, I stated here and elsewhere that the size (46,000 sq ft) was much too small.  Maybe that's all we could afford to build at the time, but the smallish size is now rearing it's ugly head.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

20 hours ago, GreenMachine said:

Do you think all these other Universities would spend money on an IPF if it was necessary or needed? You are fighting a losing battle on this one.

Your logic is flawed. Say Syracuse goes 6-6 every year and they have an IPF. Without it, how do you know they don't go 3-9 every year? Thus, the IPF does make them more competitive.

Hello, McFly?  Bueller?  Bueller?  Bueller?  We have historical evidence that it makes no difference at Syracuse.  They practice and play indoor, year round, and they suck much.  They are one of the P5s perennial sucks.

Syracuse

2016:  4-8
2015:  4-8
2014:  3-9
2013:  7-6
2012:  8-5
2011:  5-7
2010:  8-5
2009:  4-8
2008:  3-9
2007:  2-10
2006:  4-8
2005:  1-10
2004:  6-6
2003:  6-6
2002:  4-8

Well...there's Syracuse football for the past 15 seasons.  Three winning seasons.  Three in fifteen. 

Guess how many winning seasons we've had in the same span.  Four.  Yes, one more than Syracuse.  And, they practice and play indoors.

Also, in that 15 years span - or, any other year span - UNT hasn't had any heat strokes or deaths despite practicing and playing outdoors

So...try again.  It's not a competitive advantage.  It's a "see, look, we have one now, too!" thing.  Just call it what it is. 

HISTORICAL FUN TIMES:  Syracuse's one and only national title came in 1959...when they practiced and played at the outdoor Archbold Stadium.  Pretty crazy, right?  Practicing and playing in the cold and snow and all, and winning a national title? 

Wonder how the Green Bay Packers of old fared having to practice and play outdoors?  The Texas Longhorns of the 60s, playing and practicing outdoors?  Pretty nutty, no?  And, no heat stroke, deaths...nor anyone up north freezing to death.  Not even in the 50s and 60s when they didn't have a dozen people on a training staff making sure they were all hydrated at Southern schools like Texas or suffering from hypothermia in place like Green Bay.

 

 

What the what???  Syracuse in 1959 playing outside, getting muddy and all from the cold, upstate New York weather...and winning the national title? 

Edited February 23, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

[Cr1028]

5 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

So...try again.  It's not a competitive advantage.  It's a "see, look, we have one now, too!" thing.  Just call it what it is. 

Yes, I agree, this is true. But, all else equal, you don't want the lack of one being the reason a prized recruit a different program over ours because they had one and we didn't. It's an arms race, everyone knows it. Kids have that wow factor about them and they want to see shiny, new, fancy things on their visit. Coaches too. No way we get a coach like Littrell or a player like English/Guyton if we are still lifting weights under the Fouts bleachers.

[MeanGreenMailbox aka TFLF]

Just look at these crazy-ass, motherf*cking 1959 Syracuse Orangemen...practicing outside!  Doing push ups in full pads...outside!  Climbing ropes in full pads...outside!

DIdn't anyone have the decency to tell the coach and AD they might get too cold practicing outside in northern New York?

 

19 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

Yes, I agree, this is true. But, all else equal, you don't want the lack of one being the reason a prized recruit a different program over ours because they had one and we didn't. It's an arms race, everyone knows it. Kids have that wow factor about them and they want to see shiny, new, fancy things on their visit. Coaches too. No way we get a coach like Littrell or a player like English/Guyton if we are still lifting weights under the Fouts bleachers.

Agree, to a point.  FIU hired Butch Davis.  Football coaches like head football coach salaries.  He didn't pooh-pooh the job just because they play in the equivalent of a high school stadium and have no indoor field.

And, I agree up to that point and just as long as I don't have to cop to the false reasons for having one:  weather, offices, weight rooms, etc.  And, further, that I can reasonably believe that it was not necessary to go lay eyeballs on what Liberty has when everything closer to us is surely nicer.

And, finally, that I can use my brain, look at all the other universities that have them, like Iowa State and Kansas, who still get their asses kicked by school who may or may not have one. 

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by MeanGreenMailbox

[greenminer]

16 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Hello, McFly?  Bueller?  Bueller?  Bueller?  We have historical evidence that it makes no difference at Syracuse.  They practice and play indoor, year round, and they suck much.  They are one of the P5s perennial sucks.

Syracuse

2016:  4-8
2015:  4-8
2014:  3-9
2013:  7-6
2012:  8-5
2011:  5-7
2010:  8-5
2009:  4-8
2008:  3-9
2007:  2-10
2006:  4-8
2005:  1-10
2004:  6-6
2003:  6-6
2002:  4-8

Well...there's Syracuse football for the past 15 seasons.  Three winning seasons.  Three in fifteen. 

Guess how many winning seasons we've had in the same span.  Four.  Yes, one more than Syracuse.  And, they practice and play indoors.

Also, in that 15 years span - or, any other year span - UNT hasn't had any heat strokes or deaths despite practicing and playing outdoors

So...try again.  It's not a competitive advantage.  It's a "see, look, we have one now, too!" thing.  Just call it what it is. 

No facility is an end-all be all solution for winning championships, but if our staff thinks it keeps us in the race, then I respect that.  Speaking as one who actually doesn't care for the IPF idea.

[Cr1028]

35 minutes ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Agree, to a point.  FIU hired Butch Davis.  Football coaches like head football coach salaries.  He didn't pooh-pooh the job just because they play in the equivalent of a high school stadium and have no indoor field.

And, I agree up to that point and just as long as I don't have to cop to the false reasons for having one:  weather, offices, weight rooms, etc.  And, further, that I can reasonably believe that it was necessary to go lay eyeballs on what Liberty has when everything closer to us is surely nicer.

And, finally, that I can use my brain, look at all the other universities that have them, like Iowa State and Kansas, who still get their asses kicked by school who may or may not have one. 

That's fair. I get your point now.

[meanrob]

I think Davis and Kiffin are going to be disasters.  Might get them bowl-eligible but that's about it. 

 

[TreeFiddy]

This is about being able to recruit the best possible players to the university by showing them that we are serious about sports in general and football in particular.  We have a lot of years of woefully under funding our sports teams to make up for in order to overcome prejudices in the minds of recruits, parents, and coaches.

If we want to be recognized as one of the top 10 or 15 programs outside of the current P5, we are going to have to start acting like sports are important and fund our programs at levels comparable to those programs we wish to be peers with.  If we are serious about being in the upper tier of G5, we are looking at some sizable facility upgrades along with a 40%-50% annual budget increase to get to the $45M+ range that will put us on par with top teams in the AAC and MWC.

 

[Stan R]

What if we just paid the players directly? Is that sort of a thing frowned upon? 

[UNTLifer]

4 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

What I'm saying is that its one of the things that UTSA has over UNT.

Football is a very physically- demanding sport as we know. We also know that the heat in Texas when its 95+ without a cloud in the sky puts stress on your body, on top of that wearing pads as well. Combining these together puts a toll on the body, and yes these guys are young and we have all been through it. But if we can reduce this toll leading to them feeling better in terms of being able to study film better instead of being half asleep, or not having lagging injuries from camps or pulled muscles. 

Practicing inside you can monitor and lower the temp to even 70 or 80, while reducing the strain that 95+ with pads. Reducing the stress on players allows these guys to perform better, thus decreasing the likely hood of injury whether is heat related or just muscle recovery time.

On top of it, once again this IPF will be used for multiple different sports. The benefits that this IPF offers will be felt in multiple sports.

Have to disagree.  UTSA uses that dome 5 or 6 times a year for games.  Weather can put a toll on the body, if it is not monitored and taken care of during the process.  Taking care through proper hydration and medical attention alleviates a lot of this.  

Jimmy Johnson moved the Cowboys training camp to Wichita Falls to acclimate the team to the heat and get them in shape.  How'd that work out?

[Army of Dad]

1 hour ago, Stan R said:

What if we just paid the players directly? Is that sort of a thing frowned upon? 

We do now. 

[TreeFiddy]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

Have to disagree.  UTSA uses that dome 5 or 6 times a year for games.  Weather can put a toll on the body, if it is not monitored and taken care of during the process.  Taking care through proper hydration and medical attention alleviates a lot of this.  

Jimmy Johnson moved the Cowboys training camp to Wichita Falls to acclimate the team to the heat and get them in shape.  How'd that work out?

I suppose it worked out ok for Jimmy.  His Dolphins went 10-6 in 1998 when the Cowboys moved camp from Austin To Wichita Falls.  Unfortunately, the Cowboys only posted a single winning season (the first year) in the 4 years they trained in WF.

[BTG_Fan1]

2 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Have to disagree.  UTSA uses that dome 5 or 6 times a year for games.  Weather can put a toll on the body, if it is not monitored and taken care of during the process.  Taking care through proper hydration and medical attention alleviates a lot of this.  

Jimmy Johnson moved the Cowboys training camp to Wichita Falls to acclimate the team to the heat and get them in shape.  How'd that work out?

We can still practice outside as well... And I would think that they would do this more often than not, 

I'm sure that UTSA practices inside of the dome, and just doesn't only use it for game days...

[GreenMachine]

6 hours ago, MeanGreenMailbox said:

Hello, McFly?  Bueller?  Bueller?  Bueller?  We have historical evidence that it makes no difference at Syracuse.  They practice and play indoor, year round, and they suck much.  They are one of the P5s perennial sucks.

Syracuse

2016:  4-8
2015:  4-8
2014:  3-9
2013:  7-6
2012:  8-5
2011:  5-7
2010:  8-5
2009:  4-8
2008:  3-9
2007:  2-10
2006:  4-8
2005:  1-10
2004:  6-6
2003:  6-6
2002:  4-8

Well...there's Syracuse football for the past 15 seasons.  Three winning seasons.  Three in fifteen. 

Guess how many winning seasons we've had in the same span.  Four.  Yes, one more than Syracuse.  And, they practice and play indoors.

Also, in that 15 years span - or, any other year span - UNT hasn't had any heat strokes or deaths despite practicing and playing outdoors

So...try again.  It's not a competitive advantage.  It's a "see, look, we have one now, too!" thing.  Just call it what it is. 

HISTORICAL FUN TIMES:  Syracuse's one and only national title came in 1959...when they practiced and played at the outdoor Archbold Stadium.  Pretty crazy, right?  Practicing and playing in the cold and snow and all, and winning a national title? 

Wonder how the Green Bay Packers of old fared having to practice and play outdoors?  The Texas Longhorns of the 60s, playing and practicing outdoors?  Pretty nutty, no?  And, no heat stroke, deaths...nor anyone up north freezing to death.  Not even in the 50s and 60s when they didn't have a dozen people on a training staff making sure they were all hydrated at Southern schools like Texas or suffering from hypothermia in place like Green Bay.

 

 

What the what???  Syracuse in 1959 playing outside, getting muddy and all from the cold, upstate New York weather...and winning the national title? 

Dude, you definitely have problems. Switch back to TFLF, he wasn't as crazy. Close  but no cigar.

[Cerebus]

Don't even joke about paying players.