DCTF: Are Texas State and North Texas Case Studies in Roster Building

[TheReal_jayD]

https://www.texasfootball.com/article/2023/09/14/txst-unt

[Greenrex]

Bingo

[meangreenbob]

16 minutes ago, Greenrex said:

Bingo

3 year rebuild only to teach and groom our recruits to see them portal out in their prime. 

Unbelievable. 
 

Kodak didn’t change fast enough when everything went digital. It cost them big time. 
 

We are North Texas. 

[NT93]

A big difference I see is that Colorado and TxSt were terrible teams last season.  It was very apparent that they needed a roster overhaul.  That wasn’t the case at UNT.

[untjim1995]

The portal is the worst part of college football these days…and that’s saying a lot, since there’s strong competition for what ruins the game the most. That said, who knows what will work in terms of the portal to get players here from anywhere…plus, if you are any good or have any talent, some P5 or G5 with cash is gonna buy you away from the current roster, so it comes down to who you can get to come here from another program. Getting to play is usually the biggest factor for a player at the level we play at, but it’s not like people are jumping up and down to play in a stadium that is slightly more than half full on a really good day. So it’s really anyone’s guess as if Morris can really make the transfer portal work for him.

[TheColonyEagle]

 

That's an interesting point I hadn't thought of when comparing bringing your system to an established team vs bringing in your own players to work within your system....

I can see the challenge Morris has, especially given that it has started so poorly.

[TreeFiddy]

25 minutes ago, meangreenbob said:

3 year rebuild only to teach and groom our recruits to see them portal out in their prime. 

Unbelievable. 
 

Kodak didn’t change fast enough when everything went digital. It cost them big time. 
 

We are North Kodak Texas. 

 

[TheColonyEagle]

So I've heard the reason our portal activity is a challenge is because of our NIL situation. Am I to assume that TX State has a better NIL situation than we do?

Lot's of P5 names on their roster. How did Kinne get them? 

[TreeFiddy]

1 minute ago, TheColonyEagle said:

 

That's an interesting point I hadn't thought of when comparing bringing your system to an established team vs bringing in your own players to work within your system....

I can see the challenge Morris has, especially given that it has started so poorly.

The offense should be a no brainer.  Air Raid to Air Raid with minor differences.  For some unknow reason, he decided it would be a good idea to completely change the defensive scheme and not recruit new players from the portal that bought in to the scheme.  

Complete incompetence and lack of experience as a coach.  And the AD was complicit as well.  Amateur hour all around.  How could the AD hire a guy that says he is going to change the defensive philosophy and not ensure he had a plan for how he was going to adapt the roster to fit?  Poor skills and planning from the person making the hire unless the coach said he needed 3-4 years to get his guys in here and the AD was ok with it.

What time is shuffleboard today?

 

[DeepGreen]

29 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

How did Kinne get them? 

Have you ever listened to Kinne talk in person? Not too long ago I heard him in person.  I'm old and was ready to suit up for him!  He's on the same track as the nutsak coach.

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

Other fans that aren’t even NT fans are starting to notice the bad trend that Morris has been talking about…

Good for honesty, but it’s clear he got off to a horrible start because this shouldn’t be coming out of a head coach’s mouth in WEEK 2 OF THE SEASON!!

[MeanGreenTexan]

I read that losing KD Davis and Larry Nixon III was the catastrophe.   And heck, maybe it is.  Maybe we're underestimating how great KD really was, and to an extent, how good Nixon was (although Nixon could barely play over Wood).

- We replaced Jyaire Shorter with a TCU transfer and a Tech transfer.   No problem, as Shorter was not necessarily the most reliable guy to suit-out every game.    For as awesome as he was, he missed a lot due to injury in the past 2 years.   
- We replaced Manase with Miner, and that has not been a problem at all.   The rest of the offense remains in-tact, including the great OL & entire stable of RBs.
- We upgraded the safety spot Faulkner occupied by grabbing Hill from UNLV.
- Texada and Davis (when healthy) were already starting most of the snaps at CB anyway, so losing Gaddie didn't really hurt that bad.
- Obviously, Brown is not KD.  And I've seen some nice things from Wesloski, but he still has some development required before he's at Nixon's level.    So with the importance of LBs in the 3-3-5, why wouldn't NT hit up this guy, who was in the portal at the time Nixon entered, but wound up at ULM?

I'm really tired of hearing deflections away from coaches to the players.   That has to stop.   These are, for the most part, the same guys that were somewhat-successful last year under Bennett (whom, outside of Davis, appears to be the biggest loss of all).

[meangreenbob]

25 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

Complete incompetence and lack of experience as a coach.  And the AD was complicit as well.

Exactly! 

They came in here knowing  they were planning a 3 year rebuild. And the AD is guilty for allowing it. It will never happen. Game over. 

 

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

32 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

The offense should be a no brainer.  Air Raid to Air Raid with minor differences.  ...

 

To level set fairly, this is not accurate.   
We were definitely running Briles' Veer-&-shoot under Bloesch, with a few Air Raid nuances from Littrell.   It's a different offensive philosophy altogether, and we've seen that with the cliff-like dropoff of RB production.    But, Morris being an OC by trade, he can implement and run his Air Raid.   We saw it work against FIU to the tune of 39 points.    I expect it to get better as the year goes on as well.  Especially if he sticks with Rogers.

But yeah, apparently you need more LBs to run a 3-3-5 instead of the 4-2-5 Bennett was running defensively.  Who knew?   Then you lose a guy who started a bunch of games over the past few years.... you may want to try and find a guy to play there if you're not sure Wesloski & Brown can do it.  Preferably, a guy that wasn't playing QB his whole career prior.

[TreeFiddy]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

To level set fairly, this is not accurate.   
We were definitely running Briles' Veer-&-shoot under Bloesch, with a few Air Raid nuances from Littrell.   It's a different offensive philosophy altogether, and we've seen that with the cliff-like dropoff of RB production.    But, Morris being an OC by trade, he can implement and run his Air Raid.   We saw it work against FIU to the tune of 39 points.    I expect it to get better as the year goes on as well.  Especially if he sticks with Rogers.

But yeah, apparently you need more LBs to run a 3-3-5 instead of the 4-2-5 Bennett was running defensively.  Who knew?   Then you lose a guy who started a bunch of games over the past few years.... you may want to try and find a guy to play there if you're not sure Wesloski & Brown can do it.  Preferably, a guy that wasn't playing QB his whole career prior.

My issues have not really been focused on the offensive side of the ball.  While the offense may also be a wreck, in comparison the issues seem more manageable so I defer to your comments regarding the differences.  

My (and others) not so subtle angst has been regarding the defensive clusterF this coach has implemented.  I think the reason the reaction has been so sudden and loud is that many of us witnessed this same thing with Todge and we know how painful that was to endure and ultimately ended in tears.  Morris may not have lived it and Mosley may not have lived it, but plenty of long time fans lived through the Todge years. 

There is no reason it had to be this way. Bennet built a blueprint of how to build a complementary defense that was at least serviceable.  This guy was supposed to be a better recruiter and better communicator.  We did not bring him in to try to run some edgy defense that the team was not built to run.  All he had to do was bring in a guy that fit the existing talent OR be prepared to rebuild immediately through the portal.  He did neither.

Why must we have to suffer through another inexperienced coach and AD's learning curve?  These things should have been discovered in the interview process and avoided altogether.

 

By the way, I hear the mimosas at shuffleboard today were delicious.

[rcade]

3 hours ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

Good for honesty, but it’s clear he got off to a horrible start because this shouldn’t be coming out of a head coach’s mouth in WEEK 2 OF THE SEASON!!

True, but wouldn't you rather have a head coach who knows why we're bad than one who is continually being surprised by it? Todd Dodge left Denton just as mystified by coaching at the college level as the day he arrived.

Edited September 14, 2023 by rcade

[Got5onIt]

6 minutes ago, rcade said:

True, wouldn't you rather have a head coach who knows why we're bad than one who is continually being surprised by it? Todd Dodge left Denton just as mystified by coaching at the college level as the day he arrived.

To Teflon Todd’s credit, he coached his career at NT thinking he wasn’t an idiot when we all clearly knew he was. Morris just admitted to being an idiot 2 games in! Holy crap, the incompetence just runs too deep. 

[NT80]

5 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

The portal is the worst part of college football these days…and that’s saying a lot, since there’s strong competition for what ruins the game the most. That said, who knows what will work in terms of the portal to get players here from anywhere…plus, if you are any good or have any talent, some P5 or G5 with cash is gonna buy you away from the current roster, so it comes down to who you can get to come here from another program. Getting to play is usually the biggest factor for a player at the level we play at, but it’s not like people are jumping up and down to play in a stadium that is slightly more than half full on a really good day. So it’s really anyone’s guess as if Morris can really make the transfer portal work for him.

I'm not buying the portal is always the best way to rebuild.  The portal is not a for-sure way to always find starting players, nor a way for players to really find their fit somewhere.  We have had portal transfers and some (several) didn't work out so well or bypass someone here.  Also, players already on the roster during a coaching change have already decided to stay at the school.  The school and town can be as much or more factors in player's happiness than playing time.  

[El Paso Eagle]

1 hour ago, NT80 said:

I'm not buying the portal is always the best way to rebuild.  The portal is not a for-sure way to always find starting players, nor a way for players to really find their fit somewhere.  We have had portal transfers and some (several) didn't work out so well or bypass someone here.  Also, players already on the roster during a coaching change have already decided to stay at the school.  The school and town can be as much or more factors in player's happiness than playing time.  

Give Texas State their due credit, but they have been hitting the transfer portal hard for the last few years. Whatever they did differently this year is worth looking at closely and seeing if we could do a little of the same. 

[Side.Show.Joe]

Maybe I just view the portal different from most. It seems many view the portal as a place to go find replacement players when you lose some to graduation or transfer. I just don't see it that way. If there is a guy in the portal that is an upgrade over what we currently have, then go get him. We have more to offer than Texas State. 

As for our defensive struggles... our defense wasn't that great under Littrell either. It just wasn't historically bad, like Caponi's defense. Littrell tried to run a 3-3-5, but trashed it because he couldn't get enough line talent. There was no portal back then for Littrell to poach from. Caponi doesn't have that excuse. He just didn't bring in the players he needed. Nor did Caponi or Morris do their research regarding past attempts at such a defense. That's on our coaches. 

I don't know if Caponi can install a 4-man front defense in a week, but even if it sputters, it would be better than watching the 3-3-5 kill any chance of a win in Ruston. 

[TreeFiddy]

Looking at our depth chart to start the year against Cal (1st) vs depth chart for La Tech (2nd), there does not seem like a lot of change even with the lack of production (being nice).  It will be interesting to see how this defensive staff and players respond. I would say it can't get worse but we know we can find a way to make it worse.  If we have players that have not bought in and not giving effort after two weeks into the season and they are still playing, I am not sure how to respond.

             

[El Paso Eagle]

9 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

I don't know if Caponi can install a 4-man front defense in a week, but even if it sputters, it would be better than watching the 3-3-5 kill any chance of a win in Ruston. 

At least show that you are willing to adjust to try and make improvements instead of doing the same thing and netting the same results.

[ChiefTenBeers2015]

5 hours ago, TreeFiddy said:

My issues have not really been focused on the offensive side of the ball.  While the offense may also be a wreck, in comparison the issues seem more manageable so I defer to your comments regarding the differences.  

My (and others) not so subtle angst has been regarding the defensive clusterF this coach has implemented.  I think the reason the reaction has been so sudden and loud is that many of us witnessed this same thing with Todge and we know how painful that was to endure and ultimately ended in tears.  Morris may not have lived it and Mosley may not have lived it, but plenty of long time fans lived through the Todge years. 

There is no reason it had to be this way. Bennet built a blueprint of how to build a complementary defense that was at least serviceable.  This guy was supposed to be a better recruiter and better communicator.  We did not bring him in to try to run some edgy defense that the team was not built to run.  All he had to do was bring in a guy that fit the existing talent OR be prepared to rebuild immediately through the portal.  He did neither.

Why must we have to suffer through another inexperienced coach and AD's learning curve?  These things should have been discovered in the interview process and avoided altogether.

 

By the way, I hear the mimosas at shuffleboard today were delicious.

 Don’t agree Bennett’s defense was serviceable. I agree things have gotten worse, and didn’t think that would/could be the case. 

[KingDL1]

8 hours ago, NT93 said:

A big difference I see is that Colorado and TxSt were terrible teams last season.  It was very apparent that they needed a roster overhaul.  That wasn’t the case at UNT.

I did a study last year at one point our average raking of the teams we beat was something like 157, I am not sure we were anything but better than the bottom dwellers we beat.  Portal out some of the playmakers and we are really bad. 

[NT80]

55 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

Maybe I just view the portal different from most. It seems many view the portal as a place to go find replacement players when you lose some to graduation or transfer. I just don't see it that way. If there is a guy in the portal that is an upgrade over what we currently have, then go get him. We have more to offer than Texas State. 

That is the problem.  You sign a Jace Ruder from the portal thinking he is your upgrade at QB, but he turns out not to be.  Like signing a recruit, it's not a sure thing that they produce....until they do produce.   Some of these Texas State and UTSA portal guys have become key playmakers that are producing.   We just need better evaluators of transfer talent!