Mac and the QB

[Mean Green 93-98]

Yeah I tend to be bold. I trust what I see.

Which again, hasn't been much. For a guy so analytical with his weekly breakdowns, you seem to be awfully flippant about this.

I also trust a QB from Texas who played in the upper divisions (4A) over a kid from Colorado. I think the competition is greater and the development of QB's is better in high school here in Texas more so than everywhere else.

Overall, I'm not disagreeing with you. But I think you'll have to admit a bias that most of us share. Valor Christian is fairly big-time HS football as well, with nationally televised games, and Ed McCaffery's (sp?) son and those of other ex-Broncos starring there. You'll certainly see more big time recruits coming out of VC (with commits to Stanford, K-State, and CO State this year alone) than you will Dajon's alma mater.

If he had the ability that everyone projected him to have he wouldn't have ended up here at UNT. He would have at least been a back somewhere else. Not a 3rd or 4th string guy at UNT.

That seems like a less-than-compelling argument--Brock must be bad, since he's at UNT? And because he's at UNT, he must be worse than Dajon Williams, who is also at UNT? Would you make that same argument against Brelan Chancellor, Lance Dunbar, Craig Robertson, Steve Ramsey, etc.?

[BillySee58]

Which again, hasn't been much. For a guy so analytical with his weekly breakdowns, you seem to be awfully flippant about this.

Overall, I'm not disagreeing with you. But I think you'll have to admit a bias that most of us share. Valor Christian is fairly big-time HS football as well, with nationally televised games, and Ed McCaffery's (sp?) son and those of other ex-Broncos starring there. You'll certainly see more big time recruits coming out of VC (with commits to Stanford, K-State, and CO State this year alone) than you will Dajon's alma mater.

That seems like a less-than-compelling argument--Brock must be bad, since he's at UNT? And because he's at UNT, he must be worse than Dajon Williams, who is also at UNT? Would you make that same argument against Brelan Chancellor, Lance Dunbar, Craig Robertson, Steve Ramsey, etc.?

Agree with this 100%. And yes, their running back is Ed Mccaffrey's son. Their qb last year, who took over after Brock, was Luke Del Rio, the son of Jack Del Rio. Luke turned down a scholarship offer from Oklahoma state to walk at Alabama. Money is nice to have sometimes.

But yes, they're both talented and both have the tools to be successful. May the better, more prepared, and healthier man win.

[Mean Green Matt]

Is a medical redshirt what they are pursuing for Dajon? I've never seen that actually mentioned.

[GrayEagle]

I can't figure out Mac's prototype quarterback. DT played almost exclusively and he's a tall, less mobile pocket passer. His backup, Little Mac, is about four inches shorter, much more mobile and needs to rely on rolling out to see the field. Berglund and DWilliams seem to combine a little more of both traits yet, essentially, neither played.

Maybe none of this matters since we have a run first philosophy. Passing seems to be a backup when the running isn't working. If that works then I think that's great but when the other team stacks against your running I think that you should go to the pass to loosen up the defense against the run.

I know, I wish that I could just relax and enjoy the game without thinking about any strategy. Well, as long as we are winning, I'm going to try.

[EagleGreen]

I think all of this gives us hope for next year. 2 great prospects and ultimately 1 good QB out of the group. I'm hoping for a fun and gun offense with a new coordinator with a little more than a "run on first down" attitude. We need to be bold, hell, make it the 5th BOLD Goal, to win in D1.

[Mean_Green09]

I don't think it's a basis. I think it's the truth. QBs that have gone through a texas high school system tend to be better than QBs from other states. I know the competition is tougher here in Texas than in CO. I think the coaching is better to.

I'm not saying Brock is bad bc he is at UNT. I'm saying that if he had the talent that scouts thought he had he wouldn't have bounced around like he did. It wasn't like he transferred out of an aq school to a juco and then blew it up. He hasn't played in forever and there is a reason why.

All the Brock guys you can take him.

I will take Dajon and go win conference championships

[foutsrouts]

This past Sat. Gossellin did a story on the success of shorter QBs , both in the pros and college. Manziel, Brees, Wison(Seattle).I would add the guy from Tech and Sosa of UTEP. Mac has stated that he wants larger QBs.

Texas today is leading the nation in QBs playing at both the College and Pros. If we are never going to get the 5 or 4 star QB why not go after the 5'10" and 6' guys?

Has UNT ever had a guy that we could trust throwing that many out patterns as Sosa?

I've always liked the not so tall yet mobile college QB. Sometimes you can get some very special under the radar talent with those guys.

[BillySee58]

I don't think it's a basis. I think it's the truth. QBs that have gone through a texas high school system tend to be better than QBs from other states. I know the competition is tougher here in Texas than in CO. I think the coaching is better to.

I'm not saying Brock is bad bc he is at UNT. I'm saying that if he had the talent that scouts thought he had he wouldn't have bounced around like he did. It wasn't like he transferred out of an aq school to a juco and then blew it up. He hasn't played in forever and there is a reason why.

All the Brock guys you can take him.

I will take Dajon and go win conference championships

If I had to pick who our qb is going to be next year, I'd say it's going to be Dajon. But you're making this a matter of picking sides. Or like we're GMs that are making a draft pick between Brock and Dajon. Us "Brock guys" are just saying that counting him out is pointless. What if he blows it up in spring ball and beats out Dajon?

I just want whoever gives us a better chance to score more points and win us more games at quarterback. That's who my favorite qb between the two will be. Regardless of where they came from, they both play for the guys in green right now so I'll root for whoever is under center equally and unconditionally.

Edited November 25, 2013 by BillySee58

[SouthBendGreen]

I don't think it's a basis. I think it's the truth. QBs that have gone through a texas high school system tend to be better than QBs from other states. I know the competition is tougher here in Texas than in CO. I think the coaching is better to.

I'm not saying Brock is bad bc he is at UNT. I'm saying that if he had the talent that scouts thought he had he wouldn't have bounced around like he did. It wasn't like he transferred out of an aq school to a juco and then blew it up. He hasn't played in forever and there is a reason why.

All the Brock guys you can take him.

I will take Dajon and go win conference championships

I don't mean to come across rude, but what a completely ridiculous generalization. While of course I agree the HS football in Texas is better than Colorado, to make the general claim that QB's in TX tend to be better because they played in Texas is just plan crazy. So you give the edge to Dajon because he played in TX and Brock in Colorado?

I'm not saying for sure Brock is better. I have no idea. You can't base it on highlights. But I would never just generally say they both look similar on tape but Dajon is better because he played in Texas. I seem to remember a Rivals ranking of dual threat QBs and Brock was sandwiched between Evert Golson and Johnny Manziel. Again, not saying he is those guys, nor am I saying he is better than Dajon, but to just simply dismiss him because he played in CO is ridiculous.

It reminds me of the time my sister had chicken McNuggets at one McDonald's in Montreal. She made the claim McNuggets are much better in Canada than the United States.

Just a dumb blanket generalization.

Edited November 25, 2013 by SouthBendGreen

[Green Mean]

I don't mean to come across rude, but what a completely ridiculous generalization. While of course I agree the HS football in Texas is better than Colorado, to make the general claim that QB's in TX tend to be better because they played in Texas is just plan crazy. So you give the edge to Dajon because he played in TX and Brock in Colorado?

I'm not saying for sure Brock is better. I have no idea. You can't base it on highlights. But I would never just generally say they both look similar on tape but Dajon is better because he played in Texas. I seem to remember a Rivals ranking of dual threat QBs and Brock was sandwiched between Evert Golson and Johnny Manziel. Again, not saying he is those guys, nor am I saying he is better than Dajon, but to just simply dismiss him because he played in CO is ridiculous.

It reminds of the time my sister had chicken McNuggets at one McDonald's in Montreal. She made the claim McNuggets are much better in Canada than the United States.

Just a dumb blanket generalization.

This.

[GOMG2013]

Brock's strengths does not fit this coaching staff and coaching philosophy. Brock is an improvisor. He has the physical tools, but unless he learns the system and knows how to make the pre snap reads, this staff is not going to let him play. Plain and simple. He approcahes the game like an athlete.

A high school coach will design a system around his best player strengths. Even some college coaches will. I just don't see that at UNT. He either has to learn the system or be on the bench. I don't see UNT taking many risks. I assume if/when they go to a more open offense next year, it still will be one that does not take many risks. It will be dink and dunk similar to UTSA.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Brock's strengths does not fit this coaching staff and coaching philosophy. Brock is an improvisor. He has the physical tools, but unless he learns the system and knows how to make the pre snap reads, this staff is not going to let him play. Plain and simple. He approcahes the game like an athlete.

A high school coach will design a system around his best player strengths. Even some college coaches will. I just don't see that at UNT. He either has to learn the system or be on the bench. I don't see UNT taking many risks. I assume if/when they go to a more open offense next year, it still will be one that does not take many risks. It will be dink and dunk similar to UTSA.

[Mean_Green09]

I don't care you think it's dumb. I stand by my thoughts. I stand by my beliefs. I put more value in Dajons tape in part bc of the competition he has faced and the coaching received. I also trust what I see in the film. Dajon is the better player. I don't care where he was ranked on rivals or 24/7.

Texas high school QBs are far better developed than QBs from other states. Look how many starters there are in the NFL or other NCAA teams, who played high school football in Texas.

[Wag Tag]

I don't care you think it's dumb. I stand by my thoughts. I stand by my beliefs. I put more value in Dajons tape in part bc of the competition he has faced and the coaching received. I also trust what I see in the film. Dajon is the better player. I don't care where he was ranked on rivals or 24/7.

Texas high school QBs are far better developed than QBs from other states. Look how many starters there are in the NFL or other NCAA teams, who played high school football in Texas.

This is a true statement on developed QBs. The main reason is the 7 on 7 competition that came into play about 15 years ago. One guy that looks like a stud and is walk on at Tech ,Mayfield. Why a walk on because he is probably not 6'.

I don't no who is our best future QB, but I do believe we should be looking at productive undersized, mobile QBs. Will Mac change his way?

[UNT90]

If he cant run the run the offense he is not the best QB. It's not a complicated offense. If your a QB and cant read the defense then your not the best QB.

Dajon has more upside than Brock in all categories in my book. Derek was the right QB for this team this year. The other choices simply weren't good enough at the time.

Dajon was taking 2nd team reps in practice before the Idaho game.

That should tell y'all a thing or 2 about who will be the favorite heading into next spring.

Edited November 27, 2013 by UNT90

[Green Crazy]

I don't care you think it's dumb. I stand by my thoughts. I stand by my beliefs. I put more value in Dajons tape in part bc of the competition he has faced and the coaching received. I also trust what I see in the film. Dajon is the better player. I don't care where he was ranked on rivals or 24/7.

Texas high school QBs are far better developed than QBs from other states. Look how many starters there are in the NFL or other NCAA teams, who played high school football in Texas.

To judge his accuracy solely on highlight tape is like deciding how pretty a girl is based on her facebook profile pic. It's called a "highlight" tape for a reason, they put the best plays they make on it. It's not going to show the passes that hit the receivers in the feet or the picks. I like most others will reserve my judgement on his and the others accuracy when I see more of him. I did like what little I saw of him during the Idaho game though.

I also think the position is min Mac's to lose.

[BillySee58]

To judge his accuracy solely on highlight tape is like deciding how pretty a girl is based on her facebook profile pic. It's called a "highlight" tape for a reason, they put the best plays they make on it. It's not going to show the passes that hit the receivers in the feet or the picks. I like most others will reserve my judgement on his and the others accuracy when I see more of him. I did like what little I saw of him during the Idaho game though.

I also think the position is min Mac's to lose.

That's a good point too. He makes blanket statements, but he stands by them and there is no shame in that. He also made a blanket statement on the podcast about how people shouldn't complain if they didn't stand out at the game in the cold. I stood out in that cold, but I still value the opinions of those who didn't and they can still be good, like Southbendgreen's. He wasn't there but he can tell why we lost better than a lot of people who were there. And obviously some people couldn't go because of health reasons, but that doesn't mean their opinion doesn't matter.

Point is, there are always going to be exceptions to rules and the norm, and blanket statements usually have holes because of those exceptions. 09 has his opinion, it's a blanket statement, and he is going to stand by it. I respect that, even though I disagree.

Again, no favorites between Mini Mac, Dajon, and Brock. Iowa vs Texas vs Colorado. Excited to see which talent plays the best, regardless of where they are from.

Edited November 26, 2013 by BillySee58

[Mean_Green09]

That's a good point too. He makes blanket statements, but he stands by them and there is no shame in that. He also made a blanket statement on the podcast about how people shouldn't complain if they didn't stand out at the game in the cold. I stood out in that cold, but I still value the opinions of those who didn't and they can still be good, like Southbendgreen's. He wasn't there but he can tell why we lost better than a lot of people who were there. And obviously some people couldn't go because of health reasons, but that doesn't mean their opinion doesn't matter.

Point is, there are always going to be exceptions to rules and the norm, and blanket statements usually have holes because of those exceptions. 09 has his opinion, it's a blanket statement, and he is going to stand by it. I respect that, even though I disagree.

Again, no favorites between Mini Mac, Dajon, and Brock. Iowa vs Texas vs Colorado. Excited to see which talent plays the best, regardless of where they are from.

Thanks for pointing out my blanket statements.

[BillySee58]

Thanks for pointing out my blanket statements.

Not trying to make this personal. I just think some are misunderstanding you. They're arguing like they can change your opinion because it's a blanket statement, when you make it very clear what your opinion is and that you are sticking to it.

But yeah, I'm sure you care immensely about what I think.

[Mean_Green09]

Not trying to make this personal. I just think some are misunderstanding you. They're arguing like they can change your opinion because it's a blanket statement, when you make it very clear what your opinion is and that you are sticking to it.

But yeah, I'm sure you care immensely about what I think.

I know your not. It's a fan board so I understand. Trust when I say that I know where your coming from. I understand the best thing to do is to wait and see bc you never know. I may be wrong and I can live with that. It's hard to be right on things like this.

I just know what I was taught about QBs and assessing them. That's the reason I'm sticking by my statement of Dajon being the most accurate.

Also the statement on the podcast was directed at people complaining. I know people have valid opinions on why we lost and some of those people might have not been able to make it. I just was tired of seeing the complaining.

[Mean_Green09]

But yeah, I'm sure you care immensely about what I think.

I don't discount anything you've said. It's all a valid argument. Again I can live with that.

I think we disagree on a few things. No harm

I think we agree on the future at QB should be bright whoever it pans out to be.

[BillySee58]

I know your not. It's a fan board so I understand. Trust when I say that I know where your coming from. I understand the best thing to do is to wait and see bc you never know. I may be wrong and I can live with that. It's hard to be right on things like this.

I just know what I was taught about QBs and assessing them. That's the reason I'm sticking by my statement of Dajon being the most accurate.

Also the statement on the podcast was directed at people complaining. I know people have valid opinions on why we lost and some of those people might have not been able to make it. I just was tired of seeing the complaining.

I got ya. Before this gets too sentimental a make-up I will say that statement did anger me a little because I had a friend who is a pretty strong UNT supporter and actually cares about the team as a student, who couldn't make it because of bronchitis. He was very upset he couldn't come and asked for constant updates. Because of that I took your statement a little personally and misinterpreted the way I heard it at first.

I can agree on the complaining front. Team put out a lot of effort on rough day outside and they've given us a lot to be thankful for this year.

[TIgreen01]

I thought Chico did a bad job of putting Derek in unfavorable situations. We forced the passing game.

Understatement of the year. That was the worst called game I've seen all year. No matter who wins the QB battle next year, they'll have to ride the roller-coaster that is our game to game play calling.

[BillySee58]

Understatement of the year. That was the worst called game I've seen all year. No matter who wins the QB battle next year, they'll have to ride the roller-coaster that is our game to game play calling.

That's what I'm afraid of as well. Very iffy. Good to see us bringing in some stud receivers in recruiting. At least that's a focus, and if those guys pan out you'd like to think we'd utilize those guys as our strength.

[Cr1028]

I'm not saying for sure Brock is better. I have no idea. You can't base it on highlights. But I would never just generally say they both look similar on tape but Dajon is better because he played in Texas. I seem to remember a Rivals ranking of dual threat QBs and Brock was sandwiched between Evert Golson and Johnny Manziel. Again, not saying he is those guys, nor am I saying he is better than Dajon, but to just simply dismiss him because he played in CO is ridiculous.

He was also ranked lower than Kiehl Frazier (a safety), Jacoby Brissett (a transfer sitting this year), Jamal Turner (a wide receiver), Michael Eubank (a backup), Jerrard Randall (starting QB for NE Miss CC completing 43% of his passes), Demarcus Smith (backup at WKU), and Michael Brewer (injured or backup at Texas Tech? nobody knows). The point is, once they leave for college, ratings no longer matter. Garrett Gilbert was supposed to be the real deal for UT and now he is helping SMU lose.

Also, for a little perspective, the top player in Colorado in 2011 was Brendon Austin, an O Tackle who went to Stanford. He was rated by rivals as 206th best player in the nation. There were 27 players from Texas that were rated higher so yes, I'd say Texas football is a little tougher than Colorado.

Oh, and in the Rivals 250 that year, Texas had 35 players, Colorado had 1.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Cr1028