Sure, I Cheated, But It's OK Now

[El Paso Eagle]

Former USC Trojans star Reggie Bush believes Heisman Trophy, college statistics should be restored

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31745688/former-usc-trojans-star-reggie-bush-believes-heisman-trophy-college-statistics-restored

 

Yep, he cheated and got caught but I guess it was not his fault. I guess next, SMU will appeal to have the Death Penalty wiped off the books.

Edited July 1, 2021 by El Paso Eagle

[NT93]

This probably won’t be a popular opinion, but Vince Young should have won that Heisman anyway.

[BillySee58]

49 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Former USC Trojans star Reggie Bush believes Heisman Trophy, college statistics should be restored

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31745688/former-usc-trojans-star-reggie-bush-believes-heisman-trophy-college-statistics-restored

 

Yep, he cheated and got caught but I guess it was not his fault. I guess next, SMU will appeal to have the Death Penalty wiped off the books.

In what way did Reggie Bush cheat?

[Salsa_Verde]

So, for those who are still laboring under those misconceptions, here is the Cliffs Notes version.

• USC did not pay Reggie Bush to play football.
• USC did not give Bush’s family a home in exchange for their son playing football for the Trojans.
• USC did not buy Reggie Bush a car or give him money to purchase a car.
• No USC booster or patron ever gave Bush or his family any money or other financial benefits.
• Lloyd Lake, the person who provided a home for the Bush’s and a used car for Reggie Bush, was not a booster or even a fan of USC.
• Lloyd Lake was an ex-convict who had delusions of becoming a sports agent.  When he left prison, he realized that a friend of his, Reggie Bush’s stepfather, LaMar Griffin, had a stepson, Reggie Bush, who was gaining fame playing college football.
• Lake provided Griffin a home as well as other benefits in return for his stepson, Reggie Bush, signing with Lake’s fledgling sports agency when he decided to play in the NFL.

Here are the actual NCAA allegations against USC:

• USC’s Compliance Department failed to check the incomplete registration form for Reggie Bush’s vehicle.
• USC’s Compliance Department and former head football coach, Pete Carroll, failed to check the living arrangements for Bush’s family in San Diego, some 130 miles from the Los Angeles campus.
• Former head coach Pete Carroll ran open practices, where the NCAA believed that sports agents and their staffers could have come in contact with the players although no such contacts were ever uncovered.
• Former Athletic Director Mike Garrett failed to increase an undermanned Compliance Department that had only two employees.

[El Paso Eagle]

29 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

In what way did Reggie Bush cheat?

I guess the taking money and benefits. I guess the NCAA thought enough to put USC on probation and cut him off for 10 years and the Heisman Trust to pull his award.

[El Paso Eagle]

Just now, Salsa_Verde said:

So, for those who are still laboring under those misconceptions, here is the Cliffs Notes version.

• USC did not pay Reggie Bush to play football.
• USC did not give Bush’s family a home in exchange for their son playing football for the Trojans.
• USC did not buy Reggie Bush a car or give him money to purchase a car.
• No USC booster or patron ever gave Bush or his family any money or other financial benefits.
• Lloyd Lake, the person who provided a home for the Bush’s and a used car for Reggie Bush, was not a booster or even a fan of USC.
• Lloyd Lake was an ex-convict who had delusions of becoming a sports agent.  When he left prison, he realized that a friend of his, Reggie Bush’s stepfather, LaMar Griffin, had a stepson, Reggie Bush, who was gaining fame playing college football.
• Lake provided Griffin a home as well as other benefits in return for his stepson, Reggie Bush, signing with Lake’s fledgling sports agency when he decided to play in the NFL.

Here are the actual NCAA allegations against USC:

• USC’s Compliance Department failed to check the incomplete registration form for Reggie Bush’s vehicle.
• USC’s Compliance Department and former head football coach, Pete Carroll, failed to check the living arrangements for Bush’s family in San Diego, some 130 miles from the Los Angeles campus.
• Former head coach Pete Carroll ran open practices, where the NCAA believed that sports agents and their staffers could have come in contact with the players although no such contacts were ever uncovered.
• Former Athletic Director Mike Garrett failed to increase an undermanned Compliance Department that had only two employees.

This is like saying SMU did not pay the players

[Salsa_Verde]

2 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

This is like saying SMU did not pay the players

Did you even read it guy. Don’t conflate the two. SMU was paying players, that is common knowledge, that situation is completely different from the Reggie Bush incident. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Salsa_Verde

[BillySee58]

5 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

I guess the taking money and benefits. I guess the NCAA thought enough to put USC on probation and cut him off for 10 years and the Heisman Trust to pull his award.

I said in what ways did Reggie Bush cheat. You accused him of cheating in your OP and thread title, not USC. What happened did not mean he gained an advantage. 

If you don’t think he should get the Heisman and statistics restored that’s one thing. To say Reggie Bush cheated is just not true of the situation.

[MeanGreen_MBA]

24 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

I said in what ways did Reggie Bush cheat. You accused him of cheating in your OP and thread title, not USC. What happened did not mean he gained an advantage. 

If you don’t think he should get the Heisman and statistics restored that’s one thing. To say Reggie Bush cheated is just not true of the situation.

Ok. How about he broke the rules. 

[El Paso Eagle]

OK, so now to some of you breaking the rules is not cheating? Guess you can justify what you want and fault those who do not agree with you.

[emmitt01]

2 hours ago, NT93 said:

This probably won’t be a popular opinion, but Vince Young should have won that Heisman anyway.

He wasn’t a better player than Reggie Bush…in college OR the NFL

[El Paso Eagle]

50 minutes ago, Salsa_Verde said:

Did you even read it guy. Don’t conflate the two. SMU was paying players, that is common knowledge, that situation is completely different from the Reggie Bush incident. 

You don't think USC knew what was happening? As I said, some will justify breaking the rules/cheating when it's for something they agree with and then want to see those they dislike punished.

PS - I believe SMU got what they deserved. At the time they were the worst of the worst of what was going on. During that time the Athletic parking lot at A&M had more new Tran-AMs than any car dealership had on their lots. A friend of mine who played there received 2 new cars during his time. As he said at the time "everyone does it". Still does not mean it wasn't cheating. 

[El Paso Eagle]

44 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

I said in what ways did Reggie Bush cheat. You accused him of cheating in your OP and thread title, not USC. What happened did not mean he gained an advantage. 

If you don’t think he should get the Heisman and statistics restored that’s one thing. To say Reggie Bush cheated is just not true of the situation.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/462705-reggie-bush-heisman-former-usc-star-returns-trophy-for-ncaa-ineligibility

Once investigations began, Bush immediately denied that he had taken wrong actions. Of course, fast forward a few years later to the present-day, and it's apparent that he had.

Bush said he would like to work with the Heisman Trustees to establish an educational program which would assist student-athletes and their families to help avoid the mistakes that he made. 

So based on your information - Since he tried to avoid/escape/evade/eluded punishment - HE CHEATED

So if you still think he did not cheat, I guess he didn't cheat - He "made mistakes"

[BillySee58]

29 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Ok. How about he broke the rules. 

Sure. That’s accurate. 

[BillySee58]

 

6 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

So based on your information - Since he tried to avoid/escape/evade/eluded punishment - HE CHEATED

So if you still think he did not cheat, I guess he didn't cheat - He "made mistakes"

Sure, he attempted to cheat punishment. He didn’t cheat against the competition. That was pretty clearly your implication to begin with. Didn’t expect you to dig in this deep, or that clarifying that Reggie Bush’ infraction was not cheating would be so contentious.

[El Paso Eagle]

39 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

 

Sure, he attempted to cheat punishment. He didn’t cheat against the competition. That was pretty clearly your implication to begin with. Didn’t expect you to dig in this deep, or that clarifying that Reggie Bush’ infraction was not cheating would be so contentious.

Not sure how you came up with that. I did not say anywhere that he cheated on the field.

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, emmitt01 said:

He wasn’t a better player than Reggie Bush…in college OR the NFL

In college, he absolutely was.  Bush racked up a bunch of highlights.  VY made a much bigger difference in every game he played.  I think their lone head-to-head matchup backs me up!

NFL... it’s a shame he didn’t get drafted into today’s game.   I think he would look a lot like Josh Allen. He would have done very well.  Being stuck in TN with Fisher, who couldn’t figure out how to use him.  But yeah, I’d say Bush’s NFL career was a little better, even though VY has more accolades.

[greenminer]

22 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

In college, he absolutely was.  Bush racked up a bunch of highlights.  VY made a much bigger difference in every game he played.  I think their lone head-to-head matchup backs me up!

No, not at all.

[Cr1028]

37 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

In college, he absolutely was.  Bush racked up a bunch of highlights.  VY made a much bigger difference in every game he played.  I think their lone head-to-head matchup backs me up!

[greenminer]

I loved how quiet VY was in 2005.  Hated the media hype that surrounded the USC program of that era.

VY: Spectacular Longhorn career and the hero of one of the best games ever played.  But I think he benefited from being on the right team, at the right time for himself and his skillset.

having said that, if we had a CFB fantasy draft that covered players from the last 50 years, Bush is probably one of my top 3 picks.  VY would not be one of my top 3 QBs.

Edited July 2, 2021 by greenminer

[Cr1028]

This in no way affected the competition so I see no problem with him getting his Heisman and stats back. He was already at USC so it is different from the old SWC paying recruits being thrown around. He wasn’t found to be using PEDs, stealing signs/playbooks, or betting on a game he was playing in. With the move towards platers receiving more compensation. I see no problem here.

[97and03]

Once Mack Brown let VY play like VY, he was the best player in college football. He did not “benefit” from being on the right team. Brown tried to force Young to be a pocket passer during his first year and it failed miserably. Then Brown changed the system to fit Vince. And when he did, they won a national championship. That is impact. 

11 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I loved how quiet VY was in 2005.  Hated the media hype that surrounded the USC program of that era.

VY: Spectacular Longhorn career and the hero of one of the best games ever played.  But I think he benefited from being on the right team, at the right time for himself and his skillset.

having said that, if we had a CFB fantasy draft that covered players from the last 50 years, Bush is probably one of my top 3 picks.  VY would not be one of my top 3 QBs.

 

[emmitt01]

7 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Once Mack Brown let VY play like VY, he was the best player in college football. He did not “benefit” from being on the right team. Brown tried to force Young to be a pocket passer during his first year and it failed miserably. Then Brown changed the system to fit Vince. And when he did, they won a national championship. That is impact. 

 

What changed that offense was having the top 4 running backs, led by Jamaal Charles, run for a combined 2,284 yards with each averaging 4.8 yards or better.  
 

Vince Young’s bread and butter was throwing to single covered wideouts or the tight end as a check down.  His TD to INT ratio that year was 2.6:1  For comparison, Matt Leinart’s ratio in 2005 was 2.8:0.8 and Tim Tebow, the most apt comparison to VY given their stature and propensity to tuck and run, threw for more yards and TD’s with a higher completion percentage than VY’s 2005 season in the 2007 season where he did win the Heisman trophy.  Granted, VY took off a LOT more and ran for more yards (by 200).  

And when ESPN did their list of top 150 players in college football’s 150 year history, VY ranked #81, 20 spots below Reggie Bush.  When The Score ranked the top individual seasons in the last 20 years by a college football player, Reggie Bush’s 2005 season was #5.  VY was not in the top 10.

[LongJim]

"Our Mission. The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity..."--Heisman Trust

[GreenN'walinsVet]

1 hour ago, LongJim said:

"Our Mission. The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity..."--Heisman Trust

Yet Johnny Manziel still has his trophy....