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What is our Athletic Budget?

DeepGreen

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GrandGreen Grand Master

GrandGreen

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Their 2016 expenditures included about $14m in one time capital expenditures.   That is why this comparison of athletic budgets is so misleading.   NT includes their debt service on Apogee as an expense.   Add to items like that, allocated expenses which no two schools do the same, and budgets can be made to look about anyway the provider wants.   

 

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DeepGreen Grand Master

DeepGreen

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1 hour ago, TreeFiddy said:

Can you provide a link for the new figures? 

Well you got me on that one!  Don't laugh, but I was reading the Sun Belt message board and saw a thread related to ASU's new budget.  I mean, the figure was on a message board.  It has to be true.

http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2017/feb/12/asu-riding-wave-of-record-fiscal-16-201/

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TreeFiddy Proficient

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4 minutes ago, DeepGreen said:

Well you got me on that one!  Don't laugh, but I was reading the Sun Belt message board and saw a thread related to ASU's new budget.  I mean, the figure was on a message board.  It has to be true.

It could be accurate, I was just wondering. I did a quick google and could only find numbers from a couple years back, which are still impressive, $29M for a school of 14k students.

The same source quoted UNT at only $2M higher than ArkySt, although as GG pointed out, budget numbers are not always apples to apples.  ArkySt, along with Latech does seem to do more with less.  If UNT was able to get the same return as those two, we would be light years ahead of where we are.

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Cerebus Experienced

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I've been telling you how good Terry Mohajir (ArkSt AD) is for years now.   Former ASU letterman, came in with a vision, sold it to the fan base and the big donors.  Has greatly increased fund raising and season ticket sales.  Has completed several construction projects.  Leveraged the draw of the football games to the city and had them cough up the tourism board funds for ArkSt games. 

Their budget has more than doubled from our SBC days.  

13 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Their 2016 expenditures included about $14m in one time capital expenditures.   

That is true, but they also saw their revenue from ticket sales, parking, concessions, etc. go up several million form 2015 -> 2016 alone.   Also, he has completed those construction projects.  At the same time we not only never started that baseball program, but let the facilities fall apart, per the consultant report.  So we shouldn't just discount those.  

They are able to charge those prices because since 2010 they have had six winning seasons, averaging 8 wins a year.  In the same time period we have had one winning season, averaging 4.4 wins a season.

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GrandGreen Grand Master

GrandGreen

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1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

I've been telling you how good Terry Mohajir (ArkSt AD) is for years now.   Former ASU letterman, came in with a vision, sold it to the fan base and the big donors.  Has greatly increased fund raising and season ticket sales.  Has completed several construction projects.  Leveraged the draw of the football games to the city and had them cough up the tourism board funds for ArkSt games. 

Their budget has more than doubled from our SBC days.  

That is true, but they also saw their revenue from ticket sales, parking, concessions, etc. go up several million form 2015 -> 2016 alone.   Also, he has completed those construction projects.  At the same time we not only never started that baseball program, but let the facilities fall apart, per the consultant report.  So we shouldn't just discount those.  

They are able to charge those prices because since 2010 they have had six winning seasons, averaging 8 wins a year.  In the same time period we have had one winning season, averaging 4.4 wins a season.

Its helps a lot to be one of two fb division teams in the state.  Still a good example of a school that has substantially improved their position in the sports world.  

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Cerebus Experienced

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1 minute ago, GrandGreen said:

Its helps a lot to be one of two fb division teams in the state.  

They are still a G5 team competing against the P5 team in their state.  A state that has less than half the population of the DFW area alone.  

No doubt they have their own advantages and disadvantages, but there is no real excuse for them to have so solidly outperformed us for so long.   

College baseball is about to start, and while ArkSt is picked to finish 5th in a 6 team division, at least there will be baseball to watch.  

 

 

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GrandGreen Grand Master

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Just now, Cerebus said:

They are still a G5 team competing against the P5 team in their state.  A state that has less than half the population of the DFW area alone.  

No doubt they have their own advantages and disadvantages, but there is no real excuse for them to have so solidly outperformed us for so long.   

College baseball is about to start, and while ArkSt is picked to finish 5th in a 6 team division, at least there will be baseball to watch.  

 

 

All I did was point out why ASU budget took a massive jump, than commented it helps to be one of two fb teams in a state.  Didn't make any excuses why they have recently outperformed NT.   There are very few teams that haven't. 

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Cerebus Experienced

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7 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Didn't make any excuses why they have recently outperformed NT.   There are very few teams that haven't. 

Not trying to call you out for "making excuses."  Just trying to set the bar on how badly we have performed against teams we should out compete.  

It seems a lot of people were surprised to see that ArkSt had raised it's game so much, we shouldn't be, they had a plan and executed.  That is the proper expectation we should have for our leadership.

No reason NT can't be the dominant team in CUSA.  We can build to that level.  

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Army of Dad Enthusiast

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1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

Not trying to call you out for "making excuses."  Just trying to set the bar on how badly we have performed against teams we should out compete.  

It seems a lot of people were surprised to see that ArkSt had raised it's game so much, we shouldn't be, they had a plan and executed.  That is the proper expectation we should have for our leadership.

No reason NT can't be the dominant team in CUSA.  We can build to that level.  

I can think of one and it's been proven repeatedly for many years.

Lack of will. I really don't think as a whole UNT cares enough about athletic success. 

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untjim1995 Grand Master

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32 minutes ago, Army of Dad said:

I can think of one and it's been proven repeatedly for many years.

Lack of will. I really don't think as a whole UNT cares enough about athletic success. 

This.

We lack the institutional fortitude to demand winning from the top levels of the administration and BOR for revenue sports. But those folks are just trying to keep a job, which would probably go away immediately if we changed our historical course and openly announced that winning at sports and paying for it will be the primary focus here. The outrage that would generate from the entire UNT Family would never let that happen.

Here on gmg.com, we love our teams and want them to win as much as they can. We get tired of being around other grads from schools in the region and not being able to brag about anything, while routinely getting embarrassed when the topic of UNT comes up. But, make no mistake about it, we are the 2% of the UNT Family that cares. The other 98% clearly don't care or absolutely hate that we offer sports at all.

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DeepGreen Grand Master

DeepGreen

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2 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Its helps a lot to be one of two fb division teams in the state.  Still a good example of a school that has substantially improved their position in the sports world.  

nUTSAk started football when the state of Texas had what, 14 teams, and seem to be getting along pretty well.  It starts at the top at UNT.  If the BOR and everyone at the top positions at UNT wanted to have a successful, winning athletic department they could do it.  The attitude toward athletics at UNT was set long ago.  Read the book "The Game Changers".  I really think NT President Marquis set the tone and it has carried on for all these years.  UNT Academia doesn't care about successful sports programs.  UNT looks at sports like a high school.  Extracurricular activity.  North Texas could get rid of most sports teams and no one would notice.

Ding me with minuses.  I don't care.

Edited by DeepGreen
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UNTLifer Grand Master

UNTLifer

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The point of my post above was not to dismiss how our administration has historically ignored our athletic department, although I think this is changing with the current administration, but to point out some differences in the two schools.

In Arkansas, the University is like a professional team.  Everyone loves the Razorbacks, the media follows their every move, kids idolized their players, etc...  ASU is the lonely little brother that has a small but passionate fanbase.  Their only real competition is the University and maybe Memphis a little.  Outside of that, there are no other programs to draw from their market.

UNT, and this list has been exhausted, has to compete with the Cowboys, UT/OU weekend, NASCAR, SMU, TCU, UT, A&M, Baylor and a host of other activities in the DFW market.  All of which draw attention away from North Texas.  We have to win consistently and win big to draw the attention of the casual fan and the alumni that follows us on page 10 of the Dallas Morning News.  Couple those issues with an administration that downplayed athletics and the result is our historical problem.  Again, we have to have an administration dedicated to  the department's success, a team that wins year in and year out, a team that beats recognizable opponents and a team that wins big to draw the consumer/alumni/student's attention away from everything else.

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PlummMeanGreen Grand Master

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4 minutes ago, DeepGreen said:

nUTSAk started football when the state of Texas had what, 14 teams, and seem to be getting along pretty well.  It starts at the top at UNT.  If the BOR and everyone at the top positions at UNT wanted to have a successful, winning athletic department they could do it.  The attitude toward athletics at UNT was set long ago.  Read the book "The Game Changers".  I really think NT President Marquis set the tone and it has carried on for all these years.  UNT Academia doesn't care about successful sports programs.  UNT looks at sports like a high school.  Extracurricular activity.  North Texas could get rid of most sports teams and no one would notice.

Ding me with minuses.  I don't care.

To quote Rosanna Dana: "It's always somethin'."

Never seen you so down, DG, but I understand why. 

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ChristopherRyanWilkes Enthusiast

ChristopherRyanWilkes

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3 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Its helps a lot to be one of two fb division teams in the state.  Still a good example of a school that has substantially improved their position in the sports world.  

This. People act like other G5s should be envious of our location. Honestly, I'm envious of LaTech's, ArkyState's, and the like. Must be nice to be the one of only a few schools recruiting in your state. 

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97and03 Grand Master

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18 minutes ago, KRAM1 said:

I am just waiting for the day that someone here posts something they think UNT is doing better.  I know that is not the GMG.Com way, but heck, give it a try sometime.

We are playing women's soccer better and often women's tennis, sometimes men's golf. We built a kick ass stadium and some other nice facilities, though many already in need of upgrades.

An honest assessment says we are not doing much else better than anyone else.

 

Don't believe me, read the report.

 

 

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ChristopherRyanWilkes Enthusiast

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1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

Again, the entire state of Arkansas has less than half the population of DFW.   Louisiana is larger, but still only about 2/3rd the population of DFW.

 

Ok, now divide that by the 12 teams in Texas, who all try to recruit here, on top of schools across the country. I imagine ArkyState gets a decent pick of the litter after Arkansas and don't have to worry about all the recruits they target getting national attention. Much likelier to find diamonds in the rough there. Not to excuse our recruiting, that's why I think we should focus much more effort on recruiting outside of DFW, including Louisiana, Arkansas, and Oklahoma. 

That being said--I definitely count our being in DFW as much more of a hindrance than anyone is willing to give credence to. Especially given we are now the 3rd choice for most, just in our 30 mile radius. 

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BTG_Fan1 Newbie

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19 minutes ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

Ok, now divide that by the 12 teams in Texas, who all try to recruit here, on top of schools across the country. I imagine ArkyState gets a decent pick of the litter after Arkansas and don't have to worry about all the recruits they target getting national attention. Much likelier to find diamonds in the rough there. Not to excuse our recruiting, that's why I think we should focus much more effort on recruiting outside of DFW, including Louisiana, Arkansas, and Oklahoma. 

That being said--I definitely count our being in DFW as much more of a hindrance than anyone is willing to give credence to. Especially given we are now the 3rd choice for most, just in our 30 mile radius. 

Something else that hurts us, is that kids in the DFW area often want to go get out of DFW.. All of us when we were younger wanted to go off and be on our own.. I do think all of those states are places we should be looking and we have looked OK with Fine, Rico, LA with Evan this year, but we need to expand on it and try and find more kids from the Austin/ Houston areas as well.

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