Vito Says Thompson is HOF-Worthy

[Travis]

and what about DTs interception-free, 100% completion first season? find me another UNT quarterback with those numbers!

I hate when QB's get worse over time.

[Cerebus]

But you can't do that. HOF looks at the entire career.

Well them I guess one half of one bowl game can't be all that is looked at either.

[Mean Green 93-98]

But you can't do that. HOF looks at the entire career.

You kind of can. Kevin Galbreath and Jordan Case (and probably others) are in the HOF based on only two years.

[Eagle1855]

But you can't do that. HOF looks at the entire career.

So which other year besides 2013 is it that you think was HOF-worthy? The one where we won five games or the one where we won four?

You seem to be grading his entire career on a Dan McCarney curve. I don't think that's how it works. That would be like saying the only reason Manziel won 11 games and a Heisman was because of Kevin Sumlin.

He had good numbers and a good season that probably should have resulted in a conference championship -- but didn't. Can't it just be that?

[MeanGreenTexan]

So which other year besides 2013 is it that you think was HOF-worthy? The one where we won five games or the one where we won four?

You seem to be grading his entire career on a Dan McCarney curve. I don't think that's how it works. That would be like saying the only reason Manziel won 11 games and a Heisman was because of Kevin Sumlin.

He had good numbers and a good season that probably should have resulted in a conference championship -- but didn't. Can't it just be that?

Again, you should compare him against other guys already in the HOF.

Mitch Maher's first 2 full seasons as starter: 1992 - 5 wins. 1993 - 4 wins. Then, in 1994, it clicked, and he won 7.

Davis was the opposite, winning 8 games in '88, then 5 in '89, then 6 in '90.

Ramsey was just flat-out a winner, losing only 6 games during his entire starting career. No wonder he was the all-century QB.

Hall was a winner too.

If everyone wants to bag on the "only 1 great year", then look no further than fan-favorite HOF'er Jordan Case's 1 fantastic season as a starter in 1978. 9 wins! Great year! 1979, his only other year as starter... not so much with only 5 wins.

The numbers don't lie folks!

[casual fan]

OK, let me get this straight.

The gold standard seems to be Mitch Maher who is the UNT all time passing leader.

Of course UNT did manage to win 18 games in the 4 years he was here. While we did lose to McNeese St 3 times and Northwestern St 3 times during those years, we did manage to win against them in his senior year. The Southland conference was tough.

Yes, some people are comparing apples to bananas.

[Brett Vito]

MGB: Just to continue the debate, some follow-up thoughts:

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2015/01/just-to-continue-the-thompson-debate.html/

[Eagle1855]

Again, you should compare him against other guys already in the HOF.

Mitch Maher's first 2 full seasons as starter: 1992 - 5 wins. 1993 - 4 wins. Then, in 1994, it clicked, and he won 7.

Davis was the opposite, winning 8 games in '88, then 5 in '89, then 6 in '90.

Ramsey was just flat-out a winner, losing only 6 games during his entire starting career. No wonder he was the all-century QB.

Hall was a winner too.

If everyone wants to bag on the "only 1 great year", then look no further than fan-favorite HOF'er Jordan Case's 1 fantastic season as a starter in 1978. 9 wins! Great year! 1979, his only other year as starter... not so much with only 5 wins.

The numbers don't lie folks!

The overall tone of these posts seems to be "win at all and you're in the HOF at UNT." I think that's a sad statement about our program.

Winning 9 games in 1978 (or even 1992) was more difficult than in 2013 because there were fewer opportunities.

Throwing a ball 300 yards in a game was less common because the game was different.

Winning a bowl game was decidedly more difficult because there were far fewer bowl games.

So I don't know that you can compare one era to another. We accept what a player did as HOF work for a given time period/era in the context of the program's history.

I tend to compare today's players to today's game and see how it fits. In my opinion, it's a nice career -- and that's it. But again, this is my opinion, which is far from gospel.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Eagle1855

[MeanGreenTexan]

The overall tone of these posts seems to be "win at all and you're in the HOF at UNT." I think that's a sad statement about our program. But maybe UNT90's right -- maybe I do think too highly of UNT football. And perhaps I do need to learn to expect less.

Still,

Winning 9 games in 1978 (or even 1992) was more difficult than in 2013 because there were fewer opportunities.

Throwing a ball 300 yards in a game was less common because the game was different.

Winning a bowl game was decidedly more difficult because there were far fewer bowl games.

So I don't know that you can compare one era to another. We accept what a player did as HOF work for a given time period/era in the context of the program's history.

I tend to compare today's players to today's game and see how it fits. In my opinion, it's a nice career -- and that's it. But again, this is my opinion, which is far from gospel.

That's fine with me too. He's not a Booger Kennedy/Lance Dunbar-type slam dunk in my eyes.

It will be interesting to see the outcome whenever he comes up eligible.

I know the history & how much more difficult it was to get to a bowl game in the past... and heck, guys like Maher & Davis didn't even get a chance while playing in 1AA.

I'm not the one making any arguments for winning bowl games though... that's Vito, and others. It can't be trashed though, it has to go into his whole body of work. Maybe some see it as weighing more. We'll find out when the vote comes down.

[Eagle1855]

That's fine with me too. He's not a Booger Kennedy/Lance Dunbar-type slam dunk in my eyes.

It will be interesting to see the outcome whenever he comes up eligible.

I know the history & how much more difficult it was to get to a bowl game in the past... and heck, guys like Maher & Davis didn't even get a chance while playing in 1AA.

I'm not the one making any arguments for winning bowl games though... that's Vito, and others. It can't be trashed though, it has to go into his whole body of work. Maybe some see it as weighing more. We'll find out when the vote comes down.

Agreed. The part in bold especially resonates with me: I think guys in the HOF should be slam-dunks.

Jamario/Cobbs had rushing titles -- very specific accolades against peers, doing things that were noteworthy in the context of the game.

Scott Hall won conference championships and had a couple huge plays (HOF moments) that made them possible.

Kennedy was one of the best defensive players in college football at the time.

I don't see anything like that in Thompson's career -- which was a good career from a person who is, by all accounts, a great guy and terrific asset to the program.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Eagle1855

[CMJ]

He's gonna get in eventually. It won't be in his first couple of eligible years, but he will at some point.

[MeanGreenTexan]

He's gonna get in eventually. It won't be in his first couple of eligible years, but he will at some point.

You're probably right, because I see alot more worthy athletes who played during his time here who should go in before him. Seems like they want to put 4-5 in per year, and if you want to talk just football, you'd have Dunbar, Zach Orr, Brelan Chancellor, but other sports will have Jordan Williams, Carlos Ortiz, Rodolfo Cazaubon, Kelsey Hodges, Jackie Kerestine, Mallory Cantler, Steven White... Swimming/Diving? Tennis?

All of these players meant more to their teams & have the stats/accolades to back them up.

[Travis]

I think he should get in....

I am one of those that wasn't super overly impressed- "I miss DT" type of guy. But, I think he deserves to be in.

I think that means I think our standard of a good UNT QB hasn't been all that great in our 100+ years of play too. We aren't talking about NCAA Football Hall of Fame... we are talking UNT Hall of Fame.

[UNTcrazy727]

You're probably right, because I see alot more worthy athletes who played during his time here who should go in before him. Seems like they want to put 4-5 in per year, and if you want to talk just football, you'd have Dunbar, Zach Orr, Brelan Chancellor, but other sports will have Jordan Williams, Carlos Ortiz, Rodolfo Cazaubon, Kelsey Hodges, Jackie Kerestine, Mallory Cantler, Steven White... Swimming/Diving? Tennis?

All of these players meant more to their teams & have the stats/accolades to back them up.

I would say Josh White is a sure fire first ballot HOF.

[Army of Dad]

I would say Josh White is a sure fire first ballot HOF.

What about Tristan Thompson?

[UNTcrazy727]

What about Tristan Thompson?

Of course. Didn't mean to suggest he shouldn't be.

[MeanGreenTexan]

I would say Josh White is a sure fire first ballot HOF.

What about Tristan Thompson?

Absolutely. Those guys (and Odufa-who?) should be on/off the ballot way before DT is even eligible.

[Army of Dad]

Absolutely. Those guys (and Odufa-who?) should be on/off the ballot way before DT is even eligible.

Odufa- WAH!!!

[forevereagle]

Vito is just off-season trolling this board. Congrats Brett, this is some high quality trolling.

[Shuke-D]

Vito is just off-season trolling this board. Congrats Brett, this is some high quality trolling.

I'm quite a fan of the Vitroll approach.

[TIgreen01]

Derek Thompson, (and all other quarterbacks in the modern era) should be putting up larger numbers based on the spread offenses which didn't exist back in the day. Before Texas Tech (college) and Southlake Carroll (High School) and others, most schools ran the ball 60% -70% of the time. You CAN NOT use passing statistics to compare or rank quarterbacks from different era's. If anyone insists on using passing statistics you must include their INT's as well.

Dan McCarney is as conservative as they come but he was more conservative with Derek Thompson. For 3 years, Derek was a turnover, sack or bad throw waiting to happen. This coach did not trust him and this board rightfully bashed him after most games. How in the world is he now a "Hall of Famer" is beyond me. Using only passing stats (in rankings) as an argument is not fair or accurate journalism. Any 4-year starter at UNT will probably surpass all other previous QB's. No one should be put in the Hall just because we've had poor quarterbacking since. Dan McCarney can't recruit.

I think Ken Washington, Jordan Case and Steve Ramsey are the only legit Hall of Fame quarterbacks (By not lowering the standards) These guys, and others, only played 10 games. Some played more with the DII playoffs. For the most part, there were only a handful of D1 bowls. With the addition of about 25 more bowls, teams are bowl eligible with 6 wins, (.500 record). Derek Thompson is Glen Ray and Ken Smith. 3th and 4th string quarterbacks back in the mid-70's. They rarely saw the field. No way in hell does Derek belong in this company.

Don't mean to beat up on Derek Thompson. He had an above average senior year. He, in my opinion, is just not Hall of Famer worthy. We didn't win a conference championship and ended up beating a bad UNLV team. (In one of the 25-28 bowl games in 2014. Their coach was fired the next year.

Please UNT, let's not lower this thing any further!

How the hell is this thread going strong at 5 pages after this post pretty much ended the conversation!? I'll add the obvious, DT NEVER made an all-conference team at any point in his career. Heck, in his famed senior season he didn't even make the top 5 in CUSA:

http://www.conferenceusa.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/121013aac.html

Have all of our HOFers made an all-conference team? I don't know....but to have played in a conference that awarded 5 spots to QBs and not been one of those 5? You can't seriously consider adding him to the UNT HOF, no matter how watered down it might be.

[Quoner]

I'm quite a fan of the Vitroll approach.

You can't spell Totes Rad Pageviews, Baby! without B-R-E-T-V-I-T-O and some other letters and you're also missing a T.

[Green P1]

Think DT will go into the HOF as a Mean Green or as a Bronco?

[meangreenbob]

Hey I will always support and be proud of all the athletes that represent UNT with honor and dignity. However not really sure DT deserves to be in the North Texas Hall of Fame.

BUT, I really wish Veto would spend less time reporting on potential Hall of Fame candidates and more time on important issues like finding out what our season ticket sales have been each year since RV took over as Athletic Director. Yeah, yeah, I know it would more than likely cost him his job if he forced the issue with this regime.

But all of us who love our school need to start applying pressure on this Administration to hold employees accountable for their performance. If we don't we can expect more of the same ole rhetoric and mediocrity in the years ahead.

[FirefightnRick]

Jamario Thomas, possibly one of if not the fastest backs we had, and may ever have. Led the nation his freshman year. Had it not been for two meaningless carries in a blowout loss to Texas, would possibly own college football's all time average per game record? Not sure now but he would have owned it for many years?

Anyways, his greatness was showcased for ONE season. Is he HOF worthy?

Rick

Edited January 21, 2015 by FirefightnRick