Big 12-2/Minus 2 Conference done...how do we benefit

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Again, if the current Big 12 (and, former) members don't like the set-up in the Big 12, what makes you think they'll buy into it in a new conference? If it's the same sh*t, different pot, it won't fly.

Also, the idea that Alabama, Florida, LSU, and the rest would set aside their conference rules and profit sharing for the sake of Texas is the height of absurdity. Ditto for the Texas to the Big Ten scenario.

No one is going to roll out the red carpet and say to Texas, "Please come f*ck up our conference the way you did the Southwest and Big 12."

They'd have to sell every SEC, Pac-12, or Big Ten member school that Texas should get to have a special deal outside the rest of them. The Big 12 commissioners may have agreed to it because their boat was going to sink if A&M and OU jumped.

But, the SEC, Pac-12, and Big Ten aren't sinking. Not even close. They are picking and choosing. Texas had their opportunity to pull the wool over a conferences eyes last summer. That ship has sailed. And, with the details of the contract now out, the ship has sailed and sunk.

The alpha wolf in the pack is now the SEC and Texas A&M. Once that marriage occurs, everyone else will scramble.

The only variable is to see if the old northern Big 12 schools commence evasive action and jump first - the KU to the Big East scenario. They already know Texas, A&M, and OU will throw them overboard. They've already watched Nebraska chuck their game, which was the longest running annual matchup in FBS.

Edited August 11, 2011 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Also, let's get past this ridiculous notion that the SEC getting into the "Texas market" will be disasterous for Texas schools because of the recruiting aspect.

Hello, McFly? Schools from which conference have won the national title game recently? SEC schools have won five in a row, and six of the last eight. And, they did this without having to be "in Texas."

Alabama has already beat Texas' ass with a roster consisting of almost no Texas payers. Okay...they had a quarterback who threw, what, seven passes the entire evening. Alabama ran roughshod over Texas and its roster of almost all Texas blue chips. Bama's fourth team extra point holder could have turned around handed the ball off all night as crappy a run defense as Texas, with it's Lone Star Blue Chips, fielded.

To think, then, that the SEC is somehow going to do markedly better just by getting A&M is stupid. Better than five championships in a row? Come on.

Texas holds no leverage over the SEC. And, it's crazy to even say so. They hold no leverage over the Big Ten. And, they hold no leverage over the Pac-12. Maybe they can beg off an invite to the ACC or Big East.

But, again, which of those conferences and their schools want to be given the treatment the current Big 12 conference and schools have been? These people aren't blind. They see the way Texas put Iowa State, Baylor, Kansas State. etc. over a barrell. No conference in their right mind would invite that into their fold.

Edited August 11, 2011 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Here's a bit more:

"A Big 12 administrator just told me the conference can survive with 9 teams through 2015-16, when the Big 12's ABC/ESPN contract is up.

That same administrator said if the Big 12 had to replace Texas A&M that TCU might be a strong candidate."

But, this entails fantasizing that TCU want to give up their television rights to Longhorn Network.

I think TCU would pretty much laugh off an offer from the sinking Big 12.

In fact, if I were the Pac-12 and A&M jumps to the SEC, I'd try to wing TCU into my conference with OU, OSU, and Texas Tech.

But, as much success as TCU has had, I doubt they throw away the equality they had in other conferences to one that tilts back toward the school that sent them on their wayward journey through several conferences after the break up of the SWC.

In short, TCU isn't going to reward Texas for the screw job they pulled on them 17 years ago.

[Eagle1855]

Alabama has already beat Texas' ass with a roster consisting of almost no Texas payers. Okay...they had a quarterback who threw, what, seven passes the entire evening. Alabama ran roughshod over Texas and its roster of almost all Texas blue chips. Bama's fourth team extra point holder could have turned around handed the ball off all night as crappy a run defense as Texas, with it's Lone Star Blue Chips, fielded.

Texas holds no leverage over the SEC. And, it's crazy to even say so. They hold no leverage over the Big Ten. And, they hold no leverage over the Pac-12. Maybe they can beg off an invite to the ACC or Big East.

But, again, which of those conferences and their schools want to be given the treatment the current Big 12 conference and schools have been? These people aren't blind. They see the way Texas put Iowa State, Baylor, Kansas State. etc. over a barrell. No conference in their right mind would invite that into their fold.

Did you watch the same National Title game as everyone else? I get that you despise UT for whatever reason, but that game was still a 3 point game with some 3 minutes to go with an inexperienced QB at the helm against one of the best defenses in the nation. I'd hardly call that "running roughshod". The Texas defense kept them in the game in spite of the offense giving the ball away at every corner.

This is starting to sound more like a scenario you'd like to see play out (fantasy) versus an objective look at what is likely to happen.

If Texas in fact realizes the LHN will be their "demise", you can bet they'll ditch it. They were fine without out in before, they'll be fine without it after. People are blinded by bias if you think the SEC wouldn't take UT over A&M (or anyone else in the Big 12).

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Did you watch the same National Title game as everyone else? I get that you despise UT for whatever reason, but that game was still a 3 point game with some 3 minutes to go with an inexperienced QB at the helm against one of the best defenses in the nation. I'd hardly call that "running roughshod". The Texas defense kept them in the game in spite of the offense giving the ball away at every corner.

This is starting to sound more like a scenario you'd like to see play out (fantasy) versus an objective look at what is likely to happen.

If Texas in fact realizes the LHN will be their "demise", you can bet they'll ditch it. They were fine without out in before, they'll be fine without it after. People are blinded by bias if you think the SEC wouldn't take UT over A&M (or anyone else in the Big 12).

I'd call only having to throw seven passes in a game and piling up 200+ yards on the ground with two different runners gaining over 100 running roughshod. Bama was up by about three TDs at halftime, then put it on cruise control - and (here the main point towards the discussion) they did it against a roster full of Texas Blue Chips while they themselves only had a roster full of kids from the po' South.

Oddly enough, not having the "Texas recruiting in" has only allowed SEC schools to win the last five national titles. Maybe if they do gain A&M, they'll get enough players from Texas to have other schools run roughshod over them as well.

We'll soon see either way, because A&M will join the SEC. The SEC will not change its profit sharing strategy just to suit Texas. Neither will the Big Ten or Pac-12. When A&M jumps, the game is over. The Big 12 is already sinking. Texas will sink with it clinging to what they think is a lifeboat in their Longhorn Network.

Like I said, the WAC is begging for members, too. Maybe they'd swallow their pride and put their games on the Longhorn Network and make their fans pay UT to watch their alma maters. So far, no one is the Big 12 is even that stupid yet.

Edited August 11, 2011 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[LongJim]

But, this entails fantasizing that TCU want to give up their television rights to Longhorn Network. I think TCU would pretty much laugh off an offer from the sinking Big 12...In short, TCU isn't going to reward Texas for the screw job they pulled on them 17 years ago.

Chip Brown:

"Even though TCU is slated to become a member of the Big East in 2012-13, the administrator said TCU would need "15 seconds" to give the Big 12 a yes answer."

[Eagle1855]

I'd call only having to throw seven passes in a game and piling up 200+ yards on the ground with two different runners gaining over 100 running roughshod. Bama was up by about three TDs at halftime, then put it on cruise control - and (here the main point towards the discussion) they did it against a roster full of Texas Blue Chips while they themselves only had a roster full of kids from the po' South.

So your theory is that Alabama was just jerking its way through a National Championship Game, and it had nothing to do with strong play by the Texas defense and the offense finding ways to make plays to get them back into the game? Ha, okay. I imagine Nick Saban tends to agree with me on this one, but I'll not know until I ask him.

The "po' South"? What is that even supposed to mean? Texas has plenty (a majority) of recruits that don't come from wealth and privilege, so I'm not sure where you're going with that one.

Your entire premise on the demise of the University of Texas Football Program rides on UT being married to the LHN. If they split from it, every point made in this thread falls apart.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Here's the logic UT fans are forced to use:

-Okay, A&M won't let us push them around...neither will Tech...neither will OU...neither will Mizzou.

-Okay, Let's call the Pac-12 back! USC, Oregon, and Stanford will be dying to have their fans give us money to watch their alma mater, surely. No?

-Okay, Let's call the Big Ten back! Michigan, Ohio State,and Penn State are probably dying to give up their pesky television rights. We'll even let their fans pay us to watch their OOC games against MAC schools! Right? No?

-Okay, Let's call the SEC and jump in line in front of A&M. Alabama, Florida, and LSU would surely find it in the kindness of their fans' hearts and wallets to shell out $24.95 to watch us play them. We could also offer to charge their fans to watch their OOC games against Sun Belt schools. For sure. No?

-Okay, we'll just save the Big 12 by inviting in TCU! Yeah. We screwed them over 17 years ago, forcing them to wander from conference to conference to conference. Surely, they've forgotten about that, or at least their fans have. They'll gladly pay us to watch a good old SWC matchup! No?

-Okay, we'll save the Big 12 by inviting in Notre Dame or BYU...OR BOTH! Hey, if the Big 12 school don't mind having one school screwing them out of television rights, why not one or two more! No?

-Okay, we'll invite Air Force. They'd join a BCS AQ in a heartbeat. They won't mind paying us to televise our games either. They're the Air Force, for crying out loud. They don't need money, and military people have to sense of pride anyway. They'd bow down to us quicker than you can say, Baylor Bears!

See the problem. As a Texas supporter, you have to fantasize that there is a conference or school that will give itself up to your new network/ESPN's whim.

It ain't reality. Texas is the one painted in the corner.

[Eagle1855]

Here's the logic UT fans are forced to use:

-Okay, A&M won't let us push them around...neither will Tech...neither will OU...neither will Mizzou.

-Okay, Let's call the Pac-12 back! USC, Oregon, and Stanford will be dying to have their fans give us money to watch their alma mater, surely. No?

-Okay, Let's call the Big Ten back! Michigan, Ohio State,and Penn State are probably dying to give up their pesky television rights. We'll even let their fans pay us to watch their OOC games against MAC schools! Right? No?

-Okay, Let's call the SEC and jump in line in front of A&M. Alabama, Florida, and LSU would surely find it in the kindness of their fans' hearts and wallets to shell out $24.95 to watch us play them. We could also offer to charge their fans to watch their OOC games against Sun Belt schools. For sure. No?

-Okay, we'll just save the Big 12 by inviting in TCU! Yeah. We screwed them over 17 years ago, forcing them to wander from conference to conference to conference. Surely, they've forgotten about that, or at least their fans have. They'll gladly pay us to watch a good old SWC matchup! No?

-Okay, we'll save the Big 12 by inviting in Notre Dame or BYU...OR BOTH! Hey, if the Big 12 school don't mind having one school screwing them out of television rights, why not one or two more! No?

-Okay, we'll invite Air Force. They'd join a BCS AQ in a heartbeat. They won't mind paying us to televise our games either. They're the Air Force, for crying out loud. They don't need money, and military people have to sense of pride anyway. They'd bow down to us quicker than you can say, Baylor Bears!

See the problem. As a Texas supporter, you have to fantasize that there is a conference or school that will give itself up to your new network/ESPN's whim.

It ain't reality. Texas is the one painted in the corner.

All of this sounds nice (and will no doubt win friends on GMG.com), but at it's core, it's baseless conjecture.

I'm also one of the most ardent supporters of UNT you'll ever meet, so why you feel the need to brand me a "UT supporter" is beyond me.

The only people that will get screwed with what UT is doing is Texas Tech and Baylor. If you want to discuss my thoughts on that, I'm glad to do so. I think it's a bum deal for both of them. But then again, as a UNT supporter, I couldn't care less about either of them.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

So your theory is that Alabama was just jerking its way through a National Championship Game, and it had nothing to do with strong play by the Texas defense and the offense finding ways to make plays to get them back into the game? Ha, okay. I imagine Nick Saban tends to agree with me on this one, but I'll not know until I ask him.

The "po' South"? What is that even supposed to mean? Texas has plenty (a majority) of recruits that don't come from wealth and privilege, so I'm not sure where you're going with that one.

Your entire premise on the demise of the University of Texas Football Program rides on UT being married to the LHN. If they split from it, every point made in this thread falls apart.

Well, Nick Saban doesn't have a history of running up the score when he's able. I think he should be lauded for taking pity on the poor 'Horns and not even testing out his passing game. When half of your strategy has already staked you to a 21 point lead, why rub it in? Saban's no Pete Carroll, after all.

And, you are correct about your final sentence. But, that's what this is all about. Before that, Texas was just another program in the Big 12 watching OU pile up Big 12 title after Big 12 title...even though they had more money than po' little OU.

The problem from Texas is, I doubt they and ESPN back out of their $300 million dollar deal. ESPN overhypes everything and decades ago lost their sense of balance. Texas...well, we know how Texas is.

They haven't exactly opened any doors for us...Tech and Houston got into the SWC ahead of us. They were content to let SMU shut us out without so much as lifting a finger in our defense. What possible loyalty do we owe them?

I've got no pity for the richest athletic department in America. Their bluff is being called. I also think that the Texas schools split into as many different conferences as they can benefits us. We just need to relax and watch them all cannibalize one another. All we gotta do is win!

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

All of this sounds nice (and will no doubt win friends on GMG.com), but at it's core, it's baseless conjecture.

I'm also one of the most ardent supporters of UNT you'll ever meet, so why you feel the need to brand me a "UT supporter" is beyond me.

The only people that will get screwed with what UT is doing is Texas Tech and Baylor. If you want to discuss my thoughts on that, I'm glad to do so. I think it's a bum deal for both of them. But then again, as a UNT supporter, I couldn't care less about either of them.

I didn't call you a UT supporter. I said, "UT fans." I didn't know you included yourself in that mix.

We're just having a discussion about Texas and their A&M problem. I think they're in a pickle. That doesn't make me an A&M fan. You thinking they're not in a pickle doesn't make you a UT fan. Right?

I'm am, however, a HUGE fan of watching a BCS AQ league tear itself to bits. And, that is what is happening.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Chip Brown:

"Even though TCU is slated to become a member of the Big East in 2012-13, the administrator said TCU would need "15 seconds" to give the Big 12 a yes answer."

Is this the same Chip Brown who said Texas was going to the Pac-12 a year or so ago? Or, is this the Chip Brown who said there was nothing to the A&M-to-SEC rumors?

Also, who buys the KY jelly in that relationship, Chip, Mack, or DeLoss?

[greenminer]

Some people like to think Texas' D played well enough to keep them in the game. Others say Alabama was on cruise control.

I think it was a little bit of both.

What is this topic supposed to be about?

[Eagle1855]

Some people like to think Texas' D played well enough to keep them in the game. Others say Alabama was on cruise control.

I think it was a little bit of both.

What is this topic supposed to be about?

It was either the likelihood of UNT joining the SEC or famine in Somalia. I can never keep any of it in perspective.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Some people like to think Texas' D played well enough to keep them in the game. Others say Alabama was on cruise control.

I think it was a little bit of both.

What is this topic supposed to be about?

Have the people who think giving up 200+ rushing yards with two 100 yard rushers in a game is playing defense "well enough." I'm in sales, and have several products to discuss with them. They sound like the type of good customers who will agree with whatever I tell them!

[MeanGreenTexan]

I didn't call you a UT supporter. I said, "UT fans." I didn't know you included yourself in that mix.

We're just having a discussion about Texas and their A&M problem. I think they're in a pickle. That doesn't make me an A&M fan. You thinking they're not in a pickle doesn't make you a UT fan. Right?

I'm am, however, a HUGE fan of watching a BCS AQ league tear itself to bits. And, that is what is happening.

Doesn't sound like you're as excited about the Big 12 dying as you are about the Longhorns being screwed. Your posts are reeking of envy sir.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Is this the same Chip Brown who said Texas was going to the Pac-12 a year or so ago?

Just because UT backed out doesn't mean his reports weren't accurate at the time.

[tylermeangreen]

One Aggie's Opinion:

"The concensus among the Aggie faithful is that the Big 12 is no longer a premiere conference."

"Clearly, the SEC is the premiere sports league in football."

I agree with you on both counts.

HOWEVER

If a&m thinks they are going to compete with the BIG BOYS in the SEC they have another think coming.

a&m will be a middle-of-the-conference level football team at best - Hell, they have hardly competed in the upper level of the Big 12 until last year......

Sorry Objective Aggie, your lesson should be Arkansas. They left the SWC many years ago and over that time they have been a middle-of-the-pack SEC team - and believe me, a&m has nothing going for it that Arkansas does not also enjoy.

Talk about "premier conference" and a&m wanting to be in one - I have no doubt that a&m will enjoy relative mediocrity in the SEC (at least as far as football is concerned).......

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Just because UT backed out doesn't mean his reports weren't accurate at the time.

"The Big 12 is fine! A&M is going nowhere! TCU or the Pac-12 will give us their money!"

[FirefightnRick]

OR, it's like the conservatives trying to convince the rest of us everything they do isn't for the rich.

Oddly enough, many fall for it.

The rich? What kind of rich do you mean? Lke Nancy Pelosi rich, or John Kerry rich? Or that small businessman down the road who staked every thing he owned in his life at the risk of losing it all, but instead succeeded, and just happened to clear his first $250,000, rich?

Rick

Edited August 11, 2011 by FirefightnRick

[UNTLifer]

The rich? What kind of rich do you mean? Lke Nancy Pelosi rich, or John Kerry rich? Or that small businessman down the road who staked every thing he owned in his life at the risk of losing it all, but instead succeeded, and just happened to clear his first $250,000, rich?

Rich

[FirefightnRick]

If a&m thinks they are going to compete with the BIG BOYS in the SEC they have another think coming.

a&m will be a middle-of-the-conference level football team at best - Hell, they have hardly competed in the upper level of the Big 12 until last year......

Sorry Objective Aggie, your lesson should be Arkansas. They left the SWC many years ago and over that time they have been a middle-of-the-pack SEC team - and believe me, a&m has nothing going for it that Arkansas does not also enjoy.

Talk about "premier conference" and a&m wanting to be in one - I have no doubt that a&m will enjoy relative mediocrity in the SEC (at least as far as football is concerned).......

Edited August 11, 2011 by FirefightnRick

[GTWT]

The rich? What kind of rich do you mean? Lke Nancy Pelosi rich, or John Kerry rich? Or that small businessman down the road who staked every thing he owned in his life at the risk of losing it all, but instead succeeded, and just happened to clear his first $250,000, rich?

Rick

I responded to your crack about liberals. Neither your statement nor my response were necessary or appropriate on this thread or this board. For my part, I appologize.

[untjim1995]

I agree with you on both counts.

HOWEVER

If a&m thinks they are going to compete with the BIG BOYS in the SEC they have another think coming.

a&m will be a middle-of-the-conference level football team at best - Hell, they have hardly competed in the upper level of the Big 12 until last year......

Sorry Objective Aggie, your lesson should be Arkansas. They left the SWC many years ago and over that time they have been a middle-of-the-pack SEC team - and believe me, a&m has nothing going for it that Arkansas does not also enjoy.

Talk about "premier conference" and a&m wanting to be in one - I have no doubt that a&m will enjoy relative mediocrity in the SEC (at least as far as football is concerned).......

[TIgreen01]

Sorry Objective Aggie, your lesson should be Arkansas. They left the SWC many years ago and over that time they have been a middle-of-the-pack SEC team - and believe me, a&m has nothing going for it that Arkansas does not also enjoy.

Seriously?? Have you been to both schools? Have you seen their budgets? It's not even close. A&M has trouble succeeding b/c they are still viewed as a back woods cult by the masses. Go to a game and watch their yell leaders. Obviously there are those that like it and love the atmosphere, to everyone else it is F'ing creepy. THAT is what keeps A&M from becoming a national football power...it certainly isn't for lack of resources.

As for TFLF's ongoing rant and the implosion of the Big 12-2....how have so many in this thread overlooked LongJim's post about UT, ND, OU, Miami, etc joining up and expounded on that scenario?? To me, that has the look of the creation of the first-ever NATIONAL conference---or, possibly yet another split similar to the creation of D-IAA. Texas is a sinister MFer of a school. I don't trust a damn thing they do....but letting A&M throw a public nit-fit while bolting for the SEC seems like a brilliant move if their ULTIMATE goal is align themselves into a NATIONAL conference. If Texas were to align with Notre Dame, Oklahoma, and Miami, you are talking about the absolute top level programs in the nation. I don't know what it would take to lure programs like USC, Michigan, Ohio St, Florida, etc into the fold...but now you're talking about a level of school that could legitimately represent an entire region/state and as far as ESPN's involvement, legitimately anchor a regional tv channel/network.

It's not going to be easy for Texas and A&M to split, especially with all of the political ties in the state...but Texas has always thought of themselves as a NATIONAL brand, first. Pushing this LHN crap down everyone's throats to force A&Ms hand, all while looking a few steps further down the line seems like a much more plausible scenario (given their history and arrogance) than both them and ESPN getting backed into a corner b/c they were too stupid to think these other schools wouldn't go for it.

Edited August 11, 2011 by TIgreen01