And Some Want The Sbc Level Of Play As A

[PlummMeanGreen]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc10.htm

17 SUN BELT (A) = 54.47 54.68 ( 17) TEAMS= 9 54.66 ( 17)

College Football 2010 through games of October 30 Saturday the BCS uses the ELO_CHESS from here

HOME ADVANTAGE= 3.03 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | ELO_CHESS | PREDICTOR

105 Troy A = 61.91 4 3 58.93( 138) 0 0 | 0 1 | 59.28 130 | 63.99 89

124 Arkansas State A = 58.52 3 5 60.67( 125) 0 1 | 0 1 | 53.68 163 | 62.66 98

128 Fla. International A = 58.31 2 5 65.47( 80) 0 0 | 0 0 | 52.62 169 | 63.24 95

149 Louisiana-Monroe A = 54.92 4 4 60.65( 126) 0 1 | 0 2 | 56.57 145 | 52.61 155

150 Florida Atlantic A = 54.79 2 5 63.05( 104) 0 0 | 0 1 | 52.16 171 | 56.68 129

163 Middle Tennessee A = 52.83 3 4 54.25( 172) 0 0 | 0 0 | 51.95 173 | 53.06 151

171 North Texas A = 50.99 2 6 58.24( 146) 0 0 | 0 0 | 47.17 198 | 53.76 144

174 Louisiana-Lafayette A = 50.21 2 6 62.19( 112) 0 0 | 0 1 | 48.74 191 | 50.99 162

177 Western Kentucky A = 49.62 1 7 62.65( 108) 0 1 | 0 1 | 45.45 200 | 52.60 156

GMG!

Edited November 3, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[untjim1995]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc10.htm

17 SUN BELT (A) = 54.47 54.68 ( 17) TEAMS= 9 54.66 ( 17)

College Football 2010 through games of October 30 Saturday the BCS uses the ELO_CHESS from here

HOME ADVANTAGE= 3.03 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | ELO_CHESS | PREDICTOR

105 Troy A = 61.91 4 3 58.93( 138) 0 0 | 0 1 | 59.28 130 | 63.99 89

124 Arkansas State A = 58.52 3 5 60.67( 125) 0 1 | 0 1 | 53.68 163 | 62.66 98

128 Fla. International A = 58.31 2 5 65.47( 80) 0 0 | 0 0 | 52.62 169 | 63.24 95

149 Louisiana-Monroe A = 54.92 4 4 60.65( 126) 0 1 | 0 2 | 56.57 145 | 52.61 155

150 Florida Atlantic A = 54.79 2 5 63.05( 104) 0 0 | 0 1 | 52.16 171 | 56.68 129

163 Middle Tennessee A = 52.83 3 4 54.25( 172) 0 0 | 0 0 | 51.95 173 | 53.06 151

171 North Texas A = 50.99 2 6 58.24( 146) 0 0 | 0 0 | 47.17 198 | 53.76 144

174 Louisiana-Lafayette A = 50.21 2 6 62.19( 112) 0 0 | 0 1 | 48.74 191 | 50.99 162

177 Western Kentucky A = 49.62 1 7 62.65( 108) 0 1 | 0 1 | 45.45 200 | 52.60 156

GMG!

PMG,

We don't have any choice for the next few years. This is our home until either TCU or SMU leave their respective conferences, and even then, it might still be the SBC for us even longer.

[forevereagle]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc10.htm

17 SUN BELT (A) = 54.47 54.68 ( 17) TEAMS= 9 54.66 ( 17)

College Football 2010 through games of October 30 Saturday the BCS uses the ELO_CHESS from here

HOME ADVANTAGE= 3.03 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | ELO_CHESS | PREDICTOR

105 Troy A = 61.91 4 3 58.93( 138) 0 0 | 0 1 | 59.28 130 | 63.99 89

124 Arkansas State A = 58.52 3 5 60.67( 125) 0 1 | 0 1 | 53.68 163 | 62.66 98

128 Fla. International A = 58.31 2 5 65.47( 80) 0 0 | 0 0 | 52.62 169 | 63.24 95

149 Louisiana-Monroe A = 54.92 4 4 60.65( 126) 0 1 | 0 2 | 56.57 145 | 52.61 155

150 Florida Atlantic A = 54.79 2 5 63.05( 104) 0 0 | 0 1 | 52.16 171 | 56.68 129

163 Middle Tennessee A = 52.83 3 4 54.25( 172) 0 0 | 0 0 | 51.95 173 | 53.06 151

171 North Texas A = 50.99 2 6 58.24( 146) 0 0 | 0 0 | 47.17 198 | 53.76 144

174 Louisiana-Lafayette A = 50.21 2 6 62.19( 112) 0 0 | 0 1 | 48.74 191 | 50.99 162

177 Western Kentucky A = 49.62 1 7 62.65( 108) 0 1 | 0 1 | 45.45 200 | 52.60 156

GMG!

How do you propose that we rate our coach? Is there a metric that we can use other than the schedule that we have?

[oldguystudent]

Reality check. There are like 200 people in the world that care about UNT football. I'm sitting in Tax Research class last night, and the class literally gets interrupted for 30 minutes as the professor and students engage in discussion regarding the state of the Big XII. I mention that UNT won a game last weekend, and they laugh, utter a collective "pfft!" and continue on with the Big XII talk.

I'm sure it would be fantastic for UNT to be battling it out with OU for the Big XII South championship, but it's not gonna happen until a lot more people care, and a lot more people aren't gonna care until there are a lot more wins on the table. Progress via stepping stones, man. UNT was at the top of the Sun Belt heap once, and stalled. Until UNT returns to that pedestal and brings several thousand check writing fans with it, it's downright delusional to be demanding performance comparisons to big AQ programs today.

Go ahead and cite Boise all you want, but the reality of their program is that they've been wildly successful at all levels since their days as a junior college, steadily progressing up the ranks, and they're not fighting with bandwagon Longhorn/ATM/OU/Tech fans for support. They're battling it out with the Kibbie Dome and acres and acres of potatoes!

Edit: Before someone goes and tallies the number of Mean Green club members or attendance totals, hyperbole was intended.

Edited November 3, 2010 by oldguystudent

[meangreendork]

Reality check. There are like 200 people in the world that care about UNT football. I'm sitting in Tax Research class last night, and the class literally gets interrupted for 30 minutes as the professor and students engage in discussion regarding the state of the Big XII. I mention that UNT won a game last weekend, and they laugh, utter a collective "pfft!" and continue on with the Big XII talk.

I'm sure it would be fantastic for UNT to be battling it out with OU for the Big XII South championship, but it's not gonna happen until a lot more people care, and a lot more people aren't gonna care until there are a lot more wins on the table. Progress via stepping stones, man. UNT was at the top of the Sun Belt heap once, and stalled. Until UNT returns to that pedestal and brings several thousand check writing fans with it, it's downright delusional to be demanding performance comparisons to big AQ programs today.

Go ahead and cite Boise all you want, but the reality of their program is that they've been wildly successful at all levels since their days as a junior college, steadily progressing up the ranks, and they're not fighting with bandwagon Longhorn/ATM/OU/Tech fans for support. They're battling it out with the Kibbie Dome and acres and acres of potatoes!

Edit: Before someone goes and tallies the number of Mean Green club members or attendance totals, hyperbole was intended.

We get your point, though. UNT's competition is definitely tougher, but it can still be done. But as far as the meter by which to measure the coach, all we really have is the SBC to judge them by unless they somehow schedule only OOC games from one or two confs. And the bandwagon fans? Those are probably the sort of people who, in 20 years, will get mad at their kid because their little league team didn't win "like they were supposed to."

[PlummMeanGreen]

We get your point, though. UNT's competition is definitely tougher, but it can still be done. But as far as the meter by which to measure the coach, all we really have is the SBC to judge them by unless they somehow schedule only OOC games from one or two confs. And the bandwagon fans? Those are probably the sort of people who, in 20 years, will get mad at their kid because their little league team didn't win "like they were supposed to."

So we use Little League as a gauge to see if we have a future in the Big Leagues? I strongly disagree, but 6 straight years of losing in Denton has most definitely brow beat some of our alums to think we just about can't do anything at North Texas except what same said alums have been used to seeing for about the last 30 years at an unranked level to boot.

Another poster said don't use the Boise model? Last time we played Boise I believe the year before they started their Top 25 run we beat the Boise State Broncos, but then we went into our usual retreat mode which our school has become most famous for doing; you know, 2 giant steps forward and then 3 back?

To use a North Texas modus operendi phrase from SilverEagle: It's just our culture at UNT to keep doing the same things over and over again and still expect better results. Just who will break this cycle at North Texas? In light of that new football palace debuting next Fall, now would be the best time more than ever to do something different in this next hire.

I don't think most NT Exes will accept another project hire without raising some real old fashioned Texas hell about it with a mass letter writing campaign to the UNT President with copies going to each UNT Board of Regent. I've seen that concept work effectively at UNT in ways you'd never believe, but you just have to show em' whats worked before in Mean Green Country (as if they didn't already know) and what has yet to work to date--then you have the attention of the UNT Board of Regents.

Edited November 3, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[CMJ]

When you aren't winning your league and having a 6 year window when you don't get to 15 wins total - you're damn right the SBC is a good barometer for success. Maybe if we win the conference a few times we can set different expectations, but damn. Reality check is right.

Edited November 3, 2010 by CMJ

[Travis]

It's November and we have a better record than the Cowboys.

[meangreenbob]

Reality check. There are like 200 people in the world that care about UNT football. I'm sitting in Tax Research class last night, and the class literally gets interrupted for 30 minutes as the professor and students engage in discussion regarding the state of the Big XII. I mention that UNT won a game last weekend, and they laugh, utter a collective "pfft!" and continue on with the Big XII talk.

I'm sure it would be fantastic for UNT to be battling it out with OU for the Big XII South championship, but it's not gonna happen until a lot more people care, and a lot more people aren't gonna care until there are a lot more wins on the table. Progress via stepping stones, man. UNT was at the top of the Sun Belt heap once, and stalled. Until UNT returns to that pedestal and brings several thousand check writing fans with it, it's downright delusional to be demanding performance comparisons to big AQ programs today.

Go ahead and cite Boise all you want, but the reality of their program is that they've been wildly successful at all levels since their days as a junior college, steadily progressing up the ranks, and they're not fighting with bandwagon Longhorn/ATM/OU/Tech fans for support. They're battling it out with the Kibbie Dome and acres and acres of potatoes!

Edit: Before someone goes and tallies the number of Mean Green club members or attendance totals, hyperbole was intended.

What a perfect opportunity to enlighten those about who we are, where we have been, and where we want to go and maybe, just maybe instill a little pride into each of them. There are too many positives starting with the stadium.

So, did you back down or did you speak out in a positive enthusiastic voice and change the the conversation to UNT?

Just asking. Not a big deal.

[MeanGreenTexan]

When you aren't winning your league and having a 6 year window when you don't get to 15 wins total - you're damn right the SBC is a good barometer for success. Maybe if we win the conference a few times we can set different expectations, but damn. Reality check is right.

I can't agree with this more.

Dominate the Belt like everyone's favorite comparison, Boise St. is dominating their conference, then we can talk about upgrading barometers to the non-mercury, all-digital barometer.

[oldguystudent]

So, did you back down or did you speak out in a positive enthusiastic voice and change the the conversation to UNT?

Just asking. Not a big deal.

If you want an honest answer to that question, I asked that we get back to the subject at hand, tax codes, not football or national election scoreboards.

[meangreenbob]

If you want an honest answer to that question, I asked that we get back to the subject at hand, tax codes, not football or national election scoreboards.

You could have done both. Wrong?

[untjim1995]

So we use Little League as a gauge to see if we have a future in the Big Leagues? I strongly disagree, but 6 straight years of losing in Denton has most definitely brow beat some of our alums to think we just about can't do anything at North Texas except what same said alums have been used to seeing for about the last 30 years at an unranked level to boot.

Another poster said don't use the Boise model? Last time we played Boise I believe the year before they started their Top 25 run we beat the Boise State Broncos, but then we went into our usual retreat mode which our school has become most famous for doing; you know, 2 giant steps forward and then 3 back?

To use a North Texas modus operendi phrase from SilverEagle: It's just our culture at UNT to keep doing the same things over and over again and still expect better results. Just who will break this cycle at North Texas? In light of that new football palace debuting next Fall, now would be the best time more than ever to do something different in this next hire.

I don't think most NT Exes will accept another project hire without raising some real old fashioned Texas hell about it with a mass letter writing campaign to the UNT President with copies going to each UNT Board of Regent. I've seen that concept work effectively at UNT in ways you'd never believe, but you just have to show em' whats worked before in Mean Green Country (as if they didn't already know) and what has yet to work to date--then you have the attention of the UNT Board of Regents.

PMG, I agree on your goal of having UNT reach for higher aspirations, especially since you personally saw this university do just that back in the 70s. But one thing you wrote caught my attention that I think is wrong. You mentioned that at UNT, we have kept on with doing the same things over and over with our football program, while expecting better results. I think it is fairly easy to look back over the last 30+ years at the university's track record and view of athletics in general and come to the realization that no one expected better results. As a matter of fact, I will argue that most of the administration and alumni didn't care one bit if they got better at all. Nor did the City of Denton. It seems to me that the reason we have to even talk about baby steps in the SBC is because we allowed ourselves to get in this situation. From watching Fry leave, to not hiring his best recommendation at the time to keep progress moving forward, to allowing the program to drop to I-AA, to moving up to 1-A with a toilet of a stadium without any concrete plans to build a new one for 15 years, to hiring 2 HS coaches and 2 coaches with no prior HC experience, to having nowhere else to go but to the SBC to have football even stay alive here at UNT, etc...this place has never even tried to be serious about this program. Yes, we will get a new stadium and it will be very nice. But if we cannot find a coach with name recognition to come here and we cannot even finish in the top half of the SBC, then I expect this university's culture to come fully into effect and keep the program down--in other words, continue to give up. Winning the SBC is a must, no doubt. But before we can even dream of doing that, we have got to figure out a way to finish at least .500 in league play. Sadly, this is why we have to use SBC as a metric now. We have literally no other choice, even if we hire Leavitt, Franchione, or someone like them.

[emmitt01]

So we use Little League as a gauge to see if we have a future in the Big Leagues? I strongly disagree, but 6 straight years of losing in Denton has most definitely brow beat some of our alums to think we just about can't do anything at North Texas except what same said alums have been used to seeing for about the last 30 years at an unranked level to boot.

Another poster said don't use the Boise model? Last time we played Boise I believe the year before they started their Top 25 run we beat the Boise State Broncos, but then we went into our usual retreat mode which our school has become most famous for doing; you know, 2 giant steps forward and then 3 back?

To use a North Texas modus operendi phrase from SilverEagle: It's just our culture at UNT to keep doing the same things over and over again and still expect better results. Just who will break this cycle at North Texas? In light of that new football palace debuting next Fall, now would be the best time more than ever to do something different in this next hire.

I don't think most NT Exes will accept another project hire without raising some real old fashioned Texas hell about it with a mass letter writing campaign to the UNT President with copies going to each UNT Board of Regent. I've seen that concept work effectively at UNT in ways you'd never believe, but you just have to show em' whats worked before in Mean Green Country (as if they didn't already know) and what has yet to work to date--then you have the attention of the UNT Board of Regents.

Save us Hayden Fry! Save us! Us "young guns" clearly don't know anything and need someone from eons ago to shine a light in the darkness of our ignorance.

[Quoner]

What a perfect opportunity to enlighten those about who we are, where we have been, and where we want to go and maybe, just maybe instill a little pride into each of them. There are too many positives starting with the stadium.

So, did you back down or did you speak out in a positive enthusiastic voice and change the the conversation to UNT?

Just asking. Not a big deal.

I YELLED BECAUSE I WANTED TO BE HEARD!

[oldguystudent]

Save us Hayden Fry! Save us! Us "young guns" clearly don't know anything and need someone from eons ago to shine a light in the darkness of our ignorance.

Stop sassing and go to your room!

[meangreenbob]

I YELLED BECAUSE I WANTED TO BE HEARD!

I wish I could be as cool as you, dude. Not really.

[meangreendork]

So we use Little League as a gauge to see if we have a future in the Big Leagues? I strongly disagree, but 6 straight years of losing in Denton has most definitely brow beat some of our alums to think we just about can't do anything at North Texas except what same said alums have been used to seeing for about the last 30 years at an unranked level to boot.

Another poster said don't use the Boise model? Last time we played Boise I believe the year before they started their Top 25 run we beat the Boise State Broncos, but then we went into our usual retreat mode which our school has become most famous for doing; you know, 2 giant steps forward and then 3 back?

To use a North Texas modus operendi phrase from SilverEagle: It's just our culture at UNT to keep doing the same things over and over again and still expect better results. Just who will break this cycle at North Texas? In light of that new football palace debuting next Fall, now would be the best time more than ever to do something different in this next hire.

I don't think most NT Exes will accept another project hire without raising some real old fashioned Texas hell about it with a mass letter writing campaign to the UNT President with copies going to each UNT Board of Regent. I've seen that concept work effectively at UNT in ways you'd never believe, but you just have to show em' whats worked before in Mean Green Country (as if they didn't already know) and what has yet to work to date--then you have the attention of the UNT Board of Regents.

You're misunderstanding me.

We can't really judge our coach based on the Big XII. Why? Because that's not where we are. Now, we can make results-based, educated projections on how well we would do if we scheduled them heavily for 2-3 seasons in OOC. Beyond that, anything we say is just speculation, and not particularly educated ones at that.

However, we can set high expectations. Let's say we scheduled only Top 25 schools. If for some reason we beat them, then that means we can overcome the somewhat poor Strength of Schedule that comes with being part of the SBC. But if we do, and if our team performs as they have been, then where are we? Same place as before, left struggling against the SBC and only having a series of OOC losses and our SBC schedule to be judged by. High expectations are one thing, meeting them is something else.

Part of the problem is the SBC itself. Unless it can start to beat CUSA with good regularity and beat the other major conferences, it's still a weak conference and that will affect our ratings.

So yeah - expectations are one thing. Set those high, but don't set them unreasonably with unreasonable timelines. Could NT roll the SBC next fall? Yes. Could it compete with the better mid-majors? Yes. Can it beat some of the best in the nation? I believe it can. But unless we schedule for the mid-majors or the SBC standing improves or we schedule the Top 25, while we dominate the SBC we can't really judge for becoming one of the Top 25.

Edited November 3, 2010 by meangreendork

[Quoner]

I wish I could be as cool as you, dude. Not really.

And I wish I could embarrass myself in the stands at a football game and pretend it's to serve a higher cause. Sadly, we're both leaving this wish-fest disappointed.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Save us Hayden Fry! Save us! Us "young guns" clearly don't know anything and need someone from eons ago to shine a light in the darkness of our ignorance.

Book of James: Chapter XXXXXX

Ignorance is bliss except at North Texas where its seems to most the time be our always painful road most traveled at the level of FBS football some seem to think is the best we can really ever attain in Mean Green Country; and perhaps all this because of hiring the same old kind of hires that will guarantee we never leave our present national rankings neighborhood according to Jeff Sagarin's poll.

Remember when..........Troy had it going on when they first entered the SBC and then they, too, seem to have gotten bogged down with the malaise and mediocrity that seems to annually happen in our conference?

Remember when Troy was about to become an offical member of the 'Belt? How they debuted their new stadium with a win over a Top 25 Missouri Tiger football team? Now look how far they seem to have fallen although they will be a plate full for us this weekend. Hell, they may have to beat UNT to get close to 6 bowl elgible wins. All this in the SBC must be catching and even today Wright Waters may not have 1 team (least of all 2) who will be bowl elgible with the magical 6 wins. Of course, an SBC football champion can go to NO's with 5 wins I presume.

Granted, we may be in the Sun Belt till Gabriel blows his horn, but why not North Texas be the school that raises the high tide which bring all our SBC ships, ie, schools up to national rankings status?

Eons You Say? Lets look at the long roll call of past unsucessful football "project or no name" hires at North Texas and then see just how many of those eons we have to go back in the Mean Green time machine to actually find a former UNT HFC that had more career wins than losses. I would mention his name but now realizing how tense that part of Mean Green football history makes some feel I will just simply defer.

GMG!

Edited November 4, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[glick1980]

I just want to win games. Right now we are in the Sun Belt so I want to win games while we are in the Sun Belt. If we move to CUSA I want to win games while we are in CUSA. If we move to another conference I want to win games while we are in that conference. I just want to win.

[SilverEagle]

Save us Hayden Fry! Save us! Us "young guns" clearly don't know anything and need someone from eons ago to shine a light in the darkness of our ignorance.

Funny.

Yes, his name gets brought up too much. But in being dismissive of his name being brought up, you are joining the old nesters of that era that eagerly turned things around to our old culture as soon as he left campus. As a result, within three years of his leaving, we were down to 1-AA. THOSE people sniffed and made dismissive remarks every time his name was brought up. Are you now wanting to join them?

[meangreenbob]

And I wish I could embarrass myself in the stands at a football game and pretend it's to serve a higher cause. Sadly, we're both leaving this wish-fest disappointed.

Sorry but I didn't embarrass myself and a most of those in my area were behind me 100%. In fact, the next game I loudly asked if this was the no yell Zone and I was promply encourage to speak out.

I told the players that night that it wasn't their fault, that the coaches lost that game. I supported the players! But partner thats all old news. We have even had a coaching change since then.

Now, it seems you have a problem because you keep stalking my post with your attacks. However, I do appreciate you leaving my quote on your post about the checkmating a King with only the help of a pawn. That's a great quote, it's true, it's all mine and a lesson for all. Thank you.

[UNT90]

If you want an honest answer to that question, I asked that we get back to the subject at hand, tax codes, not football or national election scoreboards.

Dude. I got to hang out with you on a Tuesday night!!!!

[emmitt01]

Funny.

Yes, his name gets brought up too much. But in being dismissive of his name being brought up, you are joining the old nesters of that era that eagerly turned things around to our old culture as soon as he left campus. As a result, within three years of his leaving, we were down to 1-AA. THOSE people sniffed and made dismissive remarks every time his name was brought up. Are you now wanting to join them?

Is it possible, whether Plumm agrees or not, that us "young gun" alums can want better and hope to see us move up the college football ladder...but wish to do so without belittling our current conference home, the teams of ours that won in our current conference home, and dont need the constant visit from the ghost of Christmas past to do it.

I get it. Some of our older alums were around for the Fry days. Good for you. I used to hook up with some pretty decent tail in college. You'll never see me telling my wife that I'm currently settling for the "same ol' mediocrity" and yearn for the days of old.