It’s a Culture Problem

[TIgreen01]

4 hours ago, NT80 said:

Sorry, but this is a different roster for us and a different roster for FIU.  Austin Aune, for all his faults, probably wins this game because of his experience.  That's not to say I want him back.  We can and should do better at QB.   Not sure we can yet. 

This is the FIU coach's second season.  Their "new" freshman QB did not play in our game last year, but he was a huge difference this year.   It is still players that didn't make plays, not the coaches.  We don't have enough good players yet, or they have not bought in to tackling yet, lol.

So we’re ignoring FIU’s offensive performances in their first two games this year?  They are terrible.  Their terrible is much better than our new level of terrible, apparently.

[Mike Jackson]

On 9/10/2023 at 1:15 PM, MGNation92 said:

Tread water like the last 50 years? Or will they step up and actually do something to show we, as a university, give a shit about having quality athletics programs

This is what pursuing Coach Sanders (or someone like him) PUBLIC ALLY should/would have been about be about.  A coach with skins on the way that has built in local interest.  

 

15 hours ago, NT80 said:

It is still players that didn't make plays, not the coaches. 

Who brings in those players when your football brand has a reputation for sucking at worst or mediocre at best?  How about a coach that can recruit in Texas on the reputation he has earned in the state at the college level maybe?  You really think Morris is going to flip guys from SMU, UTSA, La Tech, Tulane or etc?  Maybe but I don't know.   This program for the most part doesn't hire Football Coaches that inspire confidence from fans.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Mike Jackson

[MAX KOCH]

On 9/10/2023 at 1:34 PM, untjim1995 said:

Apathy is a cancer…and it’s all over the organs of the patient.

 

15 hours ago, Matt said:

I think people are voting. They’d rather spend their money on something else than give it to a program that consistently under performs year in and year out. The same program that not only loses in “big” games with any kind of national attention, but gets absolutely embarrassed damn near every single time. From what it sounds like, the coach can’t even get the team to buy into what they’re trying to do this year, why should anyone else? 

WORD!

[MeanGreenTexan]

15 hours ago, NT80 said:

Sorry, but this is a different roster for us and a different roster for FIU.  Austin Aune, for all his faults, probably wins this game because of his experience.  That's not to say I want him back.  We can and should do better at QB.   Not sure we can yet. 

This is the FIU coach's second season.  Their "new" freshman QB did not play in our game last year, but he was a huge difference this year.   It is still players that didn't make plays, not the coaches.  We don't have enough good players yet, or they have not bought in to tackling yet, lol.

OK.   So your 2 points here are that Austin Aune would have been a difference-maker, and FIU has improved (this is highly debatable as they also barely scraped by a bad FCS Maine team just 1 week prior to beating us).   Sure.

But the goalpost moved from your original argument that it is a "football roster problem".   So let's get back there.  We did lose some really good players, I agree.   Not enough to validate what we're seeing over the past 2 weeks.

Defensively (because that is the side of the ball that's causing the fans to 💩 bricks), losing KD Davis cannot be overstated.  Huge loss.  Is he really the difference between what we saw last year VS this year?  If so, he needs to have a statue 2X the size of Mean Joe outside DATCU.  
Other than him...  did we really lose a lot that couldn't be replaced?  Losing Nixon hurt, sure.   DeShawn Gaddie wasn't spectacular, and honestly, he was losing out on PT last year when both Texada & Davis were healthy.    Is there a single person who thinks Faulkner is better than what we've seen from Phil Hill so far?  Total upgrade there.  We have 2 games on tape, and we're barely seeing Mazin Richards show up.    Mazin Richards was an All-conference, game-changing player last year.   What happened to him?  Regression?

The roster is not the problem.  The players are not the problem.

[NT80]

11 hours ago, TIgreen01 said:

So we’re ignoring FIU’s offensive performances in their first two games this year?  They are terrible.  Their terrible is much better than our new level of terrible, apparently.

FIU was leading the majority of the game and had La Tech beat in Ruston until the last minute of the game.  FIU also beat Alabama...I mean Maine, lol.

[NT80]

37 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

 

The roster is not the problem.  The players are not the problem.

We easily could/should have won the FIU game.  There were like 7 lead changes. 

FIU got a lot of breaks from us because of our poor tackling or poor pass coverages.  Their freshman QB had little pressure on him all game.  Our QBs threw some questionable throws, and two interceptions.  FIU hits a long pass near the end of game to a kid that lands on his back barely in play.  Tough break for us, but yes our players (and loss of players from last year) were exactly the reason we lost this game.

[Meangreen Fight]

9 hours ago, NT80 said:

We easily could/should have won the FIU game.  There were like 7 lead changes. 

FIU got a lot of breaks from us because of our poor tackling or poor pass coverages.  Their freshman QB had little pressure on him all game.  Our QBs threw some questionable throws, and two interceptions.  FIU hits a long pass near the end of game to a kid that lands on his back barely in play.  Tough break for us, but yes our players (and loss of players from last year) were exactly the reason we lost this game.

@MGNation92 did a great job spelling out our primary issue and I think some just glossed over it.  At the end of the day I don't believe the leadership here really believes that winning big time here would generate the revenue a school of our size in a highly populated area should.  From now until we have a 10 win season, in a run of a least 3 consecutive winning seasons with bowl win and conference championship our head coach hire has to be a culture changer.   Morris may end up being a fine coach, decent recruit and etc but he isn't a culture changer.

A known commodity coach that is a culture changing coach is going to cost.  They are also are going to be looking at the program very critically before the accept the challenge.  They will be interviewing the AD and top people in the athletic department as much as they are interviewing him. They are going to have options and aren't going to be money whipped into coming here when they know they won really be supported. 

@MGNation92 touched upon this but didn't pose this exact question.  Does the Adminstration believe in the program growing into a sold out 45k seat stadium?  More importantly does anyone here believe that they do give all the decisions made in the last 25 years other than building sufficient facilities and hiring Coach McCarney?   McCarney was the only coach that seem to address the culture problem here somewhat.   His problem was he underestimated how difficult it was going to be to recruit to his offensive system here and underestimated the value of an in Texas/Oklahoma recruiting network. 

I really believe that if the leadership show they were really aggressive and serious about winning they would be able to tap into all that wasted potential MGNation92, Coach McCarney, and many others on this board often mention.  A Heart of Dallas Bowl isn't going to cut it and let's be clear, it wouldn't cut it anywhere if program hasn't been the final AP Top 25 poll of the season EVER.  (Hayden Fry's 10-1 Mean Green was 16 in Coaches Poll) So we need to stop looking at students, the Denton community or factors outside the program that are beyond an AD and coach's control.   You also can't fault the working class fans who really can't afford to be throwing away money and get slapped in the face for almost 20 years consecutively when they hope for a measly bowl win or conference championship in mediocre conferences.  If the Adminstration does believe enough to even attempt publicly make big swings;  Deion Sanders, Gary Patterson, Sonny Dykes, Lane Kiffin, Hugh Freeze, Turner Gill, Kliff Kingsbury or etc do they believe in the Mean Green?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Meangreen Fight

[Jonnyeagle]

3 minutes ago, Meangreen Fight said:

Morris may end up being a fine coach, decent recruit and etc but he isn't a culture changer.

I think it is premature after two games to make this determination.  I say that with all due respect.

[Mike Jackson]

48 minutes ago, Jonnyeagle said:

I think it is premature after two games to make this determination.  I say that with all due respect.

It can be a little premature but accurate none the less.  The 2 aren't mutually exclusive.  Take all the horrible stats away, what Seth left or didn't leave and just look at the physical effort.  Is that the effort you want to see?  From game 1 to game 2 did you see better effort from the defense?   Was the offensive production we saw   just a side effect from finally putting in the best QB?  If was the QB why didn't he commit to Rogers after FIU game?  Indecision when it comes to QB depth chart when it is pretty clear to everyone watching who is better is BAD for culture?  So yes you probably right we can't make a determination that is he a culture changer but I argue we can be fairly confident betting on him NOT being a positive culture changer.   Remember you can change culture positively or negatively. 

[NT80]

16 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

It can be a little premature but accurate none the less.  The 2 aren't mutually exclusive.  Take all the horrible stats away, what Seth left or didn't leave and just look at the physical effort.  Is that the effort you want to see?  From game 1 to game 2 did you see better effort from the defense?   Was the offensive production we saw   just a side effect from finally putting in the best QB?  If was the QB why didn't he commit to Rogers after FIU game?  Indecision when it comes to QB depth chart when it is pretty clear to everyone watching who is better is BAD for culture?  So yes you probably right we can't make a determination that is he a culture changer but I argue we can be fairly confident betting on him NOT being a positive culture changer.   Remember you can change culture positively or negatively. 

I'm not sure a culture changer is what Morris needs to be at the moment.  First, he needs to be Captain of the ship and stop the sinking of the team, ie poor execution and basics of the game.  Next, he needs to ramp up recruiting even more.  Only when the ship is secure and not leaking can the coaches start to change any culture.

Coaches could only judge what they had to work with until they actually saw what they had to work with...in game action.  It is obvious to us fans that there is a LOT more work needed....in ALL three phases, lol. 

[Meangreen Fight]

4 minutes ago, NT80 said:

ie poor execution and basics of the game. 

I would argue that lacking and lack of improvement in "basic execution" is a culture thing.  Our defense looked worse from game one to game two even those FIU scored fewer points.  The offensive production should been motivation enough to believe that holding them to a couple of field goal attempts in the 4th quarter would have put them in the position to win.  FIU wasn't some offensive juggernaut, they were held to 14 by FCS Maine.  But against UNT they score touchdowns whenever they needed to.  Defense had every reason to play better but played worse.

 

[SilverEagle]

1 hour ago, Meangreen Fight said:

@MGNation92 did a great job spelling out our primary issue and I think some just glossed over it.  At the end of the day I don't believe the leadership here really believes that winning big time here would generate the revenue a school of our size in a highly populated area should.  From now until we have a 10 win season, in a run of a least 3 consecutive winning seasons with bowl win and conference championship our head coach hire has to be a culture changer.   Morris may end up being a fine coach, decent recruit and etc but he isn't a culture changer.

A known commodity coach that is a culture changing coach is going to cost.  They are also are going to be looking at the program very critically before the accept the challenge.  They will be interviewing the AD and top people in the athletic department as much as they are interviewing him. They are going to have options and aren't going to be money whipped into coming here when they know they won really be supported. 

@MGNation92 touched upon this but didn't pose this exact question.  Does the Adminstration believe in the program growing into a sold out 45k seat stadium?  More importantly does anyone here believe that they do give all the decisions made in the last 25 years other than building sufficient facilities and hiring Coach McCarney?   McCarney was the only coach that seem to address the culture problem here somewhat.   His problem was he underestimated how difficult it was going to be to recruit to his offensive system here and underestimated the value of an in Texas/Oklahoma recruiting network. 

I really believe that if the leadership show they were really aggressive and serious about winning they would be able to tap into all that wasted potential MGNation92, Coach McCarney, and many others on this board often mention.  A Heart of Dallas Bowl isn't going to cut it and let's be clear, it wouldn't cut it anywhere if program hasn't been the final AP Top 25 poll of the season EVER.  (Hayden Fry's 10-1 Mean Green was 16 in Coaches Poll) So we need to stop looking at students, the Denton community or factors outside the program that are beyond an AD and coach's control.   You also can't fault the working class fans who really can't afford to be throwing away money and get slapped in the face for almost 20 years consecutively when they hope for a measly bowl win or conference championship in mediocre conferences.  If the Adminstration does believe enough to even attempt publicly make big swings;  Deion Sanders, Gary Patterson, Sonny Dykes, Lane Kiffin, Hugh Freeze, Turner Gill, Kliff Kingsbury or etc do they believe in the Mean Green?

 

 

Coaches don't change the culture of a school. They change the culture of the team. Culture change starts at the top and everyone from there on down need to "believe in the Mean Green". And they need to believe in the Mean Green every waking hour/moment that they are doing their jobs at this University. Then "believing" has to spread out from there and into the community.

 

 

[97and03]

On 9/12/2023 at 5:04 AM, TIgreen01 said:

So we’re ignoring FIU’s offensive performances in their first two games this year?  They are terrible.  Their terrible is much better than our new level of terrible, apparently.

We only had two tackles for loss in the entire game. It’s the system. 

[Jonnyeagle]

8 hours ago, 97and03 said:

We only had two tackles for loss in the entire game. It’s the system. 

I think it’s more the Jimmies and Joes more than the system but you may be right 

[Got5onIt]

Dr.Pohl was right when he said Athletics is the window for the University. I guarantee you if NT truly invested in Football, alumni would give back. With the shift in the college football landscape from the NIL to conference realignment, NT is being left behind.   

[Big Z]

1 hour ago, Got5onIt said:

Dr.Pohl was right when he said Athletics is the window for the University. I guarantee you if NT truly invested in Football, alumni would give back. With the shift in the college football landscape from the NIL to conference realignment, NT is being left behind.   

 

[UNTLifer]

The administration needs to change the culture of the school, students, alumni and local community towards UNT sports.  The culture of our programs is much better than the culture of what I listed,

[Coffee and TV]

It doesn't help that we are in a position where we're completely overshadowed by the DFW market. After pro sports and bigger schools take their share of the pie there is little attention paid to whatever is happening in Denton. 

I don't know what the culture of incoming freshman is these days, but I was pretty shocked at how many of my new college friends couldn't give a shit about athletics when I lived on campus, which was weird considering most all had come from public high schools in Texas, where Friday nights were always reserved for one specific thing in the community. 

[NT80]

4 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

The administration needs to change the culture of the school, students, alumni and local community towards UNT sports.  The culture of our programs is much better than the culture of what I listed,

Agree.  But how does one change culture?  

The goal instead should be to encourage attendance.  

How does one do that to these various groups?   You have to find out why they are not coming and what would motivate them to come.  You have to make it cool for the kids, easy for the locals, and pride for alums. 

[UNTLifer]

* Winning, first and foremost. The DFW market are notorious front runners.  *Second, you have to make every game an event. It has to be the place to be and be seen.
* Third, game times, which we don’t have much control over, need to be mainly in the evening when family/kids events are done for the night.

* Incorporate the community.  Make every home game an elementary school night. There are enough schools to recognize two for each game. Also, recognize a local community. For example, have a Robson Ranch Night. Sell them a block of tickets, bus them over, drop them off at a dedicated tailgate tent with food, cash bar and music, tickets to the game, post game entertainment in their tent and then bus them home. 
* Recognize local North Texas towns. Sanger night, Krum Night, etc…

*Bring back the Scrappy Squad lineup for the team to run through either pregame or after halftime. 
* Half price upper wing tickets. 
* Win consistently. 

[TreeFiddy]

2 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

* Winning, first and foremost. The DFW market are notorious front runners.  *Second, you have to make every game an event. It has to be the place to be and be seen.
* Third, game times, which we don’t have much control over, need to be mainly in the evening when family/kids events are done for the night.

* Incorporate the community.  Make every home game an elementary school night. There are enough schools to recognize two for each game. Also, recognize a local community. For example, have a Robson Ranch Night. Sell them a block of tickets, bus them over, drop them off at a dedicated tailgate tent with food, cash bar and music, tickets to the game, post game entertainment in their tent and then bus them home. 
* Recognize local North Texas towns. Sanger night, Krum Night, etc…

*Bring back the Scrappy Squad lineup for the team to run through either pregame or after halftime. 
* Half price upper wing tickets. 
* Win consistently. 

Tell them that it is a Winstar trip with a brief stop in Denton.

[Salsa_Verde]

On 9/10/2023 at 8:26 PM, Side.Show.Joe said:

I have to disagree. I work closely with young people that are headed to college. The vast majority of those students are selecting UNT because they feel the university fits their academic goals, and they believe is trending up compared to other universities. Last year I spoke with multiple students that selected UNT over Texas Tech, OU, & Oklahoma State. And these are students that graduated in the Top 10 of their graduating class. 

Athletics just needs to build a football program that will help promote the narrative these students are buying into. There is a reason UNT now has over 45,000 students, and it isn't because these kids can't get into UT, A&M, or Tech. 

Well said. 

[Salsa_Verde]

On 9/10/2023 at 8:44 PM, CMJ said:

I mean does Denton?  I feel like the city didn't even support the high school teams like they should have when I was a kid.  Granted, it's been eons since I regularly attended HS sports in Denton given I don't live there any more, but I doubt it's changed that much.

Way out of touch. 

[Meangreen Fight]

19 hours ago, Coffee and TV said:

It doesn't help that we are in a position where we're completely overshadowed by the DFW market. After pro sports and bigger schools take their share of the pie there is little attention paid to whatever is happening in Denton. 

TCU and SMU aren’t “bigger schools”.  Their leadership cares more and have consistently invested more for over 50 years.   Texas Tech has a student body the same size as ours.   The only universities in the state bigger than ours Houston, Texas A&M, and UT Austin.  We are the flagship university of a system.  I believe that if we want to distance ourselves from being UT Arlington North (UTA has 40k students like us) we have to be serious about football and stop making conservative head coaching hires.  We also can’t afford to give a mediocre coach too much job security.

If FAU can bring in a guy like Lane Kiffin, and Liberty hire Hugh Freeze we should be hiring coaches with resumes similar to theirs.   Kliff Kingburry, Gary Patterson, Sonny Dykes, and Tom Herman are all coaches with resumes would have signaled to fans we are serious.  We always have excuses for not pursuing these guys.

 

[Coffee and TV]

29 minutes ago, Meangreen Fight said:

TCU and SMU aren’t “bigger schools”.  

I didn't say they were. But they do have the advantage of being in the middle of the market and not the periphery. They also have the advantage of having lots of extremely rich old alumni. 

 

29 minutes ago, Meangreen Fight said:

Texas Tech has a student body the same size as ours.   The only universities in the state bigger than ours Houston, Texas A&M, and UT Austin.  

Except for Houston they are all bigger in terms of fan support, alumni base, and a history of being in power conferences, especially in the DFW area. UNT was small beans in every way compared to those schools until the late 90's. 

 

29 minutes ago, Meangreen Fight said:

If FAU can bring in a guy like Lane Kiffin, and Liberty hire Hugh Freeze we should be hiring coaches with resumes similar to theirs.   Kliff Kingburry, Gary Patterson, Sonny Dykes, and Tom Herman are all coaches with resumes would have signaled to fans we are serious.  We always have excuses for not pursuing these guys.

Don't disagree, and I don't make any excuses for that. I was just commenting on how the sports radar works in Dallas/Fort Worth. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Coffee and TV