Oklahoma State

[chrisfisher]

Well, our forwards all shot poorly from the line. Our guards hit most of theirs.

Ya but our fowards hit about 50% of their shots from the field, while our guards were sucking.

[CMJ]

Ya but our fowards hit about 50% of their shots from the field, while our guards were sucking.

Can't have everything?

[chrisfisher]

Can't have everything?

This game was definitely in reach... easily. If we even have 1 guard who gets hot, it is a different game. We only had 11 turnovers and completely out-rebounded OSU. The shooting % is a situational thing... our guards normally light it up. We have a bright future ahead in this season.

[CMJ]

I was kidding Chris. We played much better than I figured we would after reading about how poor we looked in person.

[jwynn05]

This game was definitely in reach... easily. If we even have 1 guard who gets hot, it is a different game. We only had 11 turnovers and completely out-rebounded OSU. The shooting % is a situational thing... our guards normally light it up. We have a bright future ahead in this season.

Sorry but I dont agree with this, about 10 minutes into the game OSU grabbed got a double digit and just held us off the rest of the game like we did to them last year. We could not put together any defensive stops to make a run to get back in the game. You just cant shoot 33% against a major conference team and have a chance to win. We still have a long way to go, but the good thing is we have a long time to get there.

[chrisfisher]

Sorry but I dont agree with this, about 10 minutes into the game OSU grabbed got a double digit and just held us off the rest of the game like we did to them last year. We could not put together any defensive stops to make a run to get back in the game. You just cant shoot 33% against a major conference team and have a chance to win. We still have a long way to go, but the good thing is we have a long time to get there.

True, some defensive stops definitely would have helped. But I think you nailed it in your final point that 33% won't cut it. Had we shot to our ability, it would have been a much better game. Don't get me wrong, there was no moral victory here. OSU beat us tonight. But I think this young team can do very well this season... we'll see.

Edited November 18, 2008 by chrisfisher

[Green Guy Bass]

After watching the game, I do think that OSU's team is better this season. It was good to see our kids didn't ever fade away and raise the white flag. I think this year should be another 20+ win season and we should be a real threat to win the Belt. The 3's will fall, the FT's should be better, and we will mostly be facing teams that are not as athletic or strong as Okie St.

Some of the newcomers are intriguing like Tramiel, Johnson, and Odufuwa. Dennis and White should be great again. My only real concern is in the post. Howerton is way too erratic overall and sloppy underneath on the offensive end. Not having a good big man is going to cost us a few wins along the way, but what I saw tonight was intriguing. Wish I could have said that once this year about our football team.

[aprice]

I haven't seen too much mention of Howerton. I was really impressed by his aggressive offensive presence during the Cameron game. What the hell happened to him last night?? Why did we not see that same Howerton?

Edited November 18, 2008 by aprice

[CMJ]

I haven't seen too much mention of Howerton. I was really impressed by his aggressive offensive presence during the Cameron game. What the hell happened to him last night?? Why did we not see that same Howerton?

Part of it was he was facing Big XII competition. Part of it was the game was called pretty tight(there were a million fouls called on each team).

Edited November 18, 2008 by CMJ

[MeanMag]

I haven't seen too much mention of Howerton. I was really impressed by his aggressive offensive presence during the Cameron game. What the hell happened to him last night?? Why did we not see that same Howerton?

He was in some foul trouble early as well. I don't think he was able to be very agressive and assertive.

[drex]

Apparently they did not get the memo on the OSU campus that there was a game Monday night...lots of empty seats. Finally, OSU shows it is human....coming off a sub par 2007 campaign they will need time to get the interest back. In fact, if it had not been North Texas last night, I just wonder if the attendance would have been even worse...I imagine a lot of the crowd came to watch 'payback' from our win last season. I'm not making excuses for NT, but OSU showed it loses interest in mediocre basketball just like our fans do when we are mediocre. We always envy the 'mighty' Big XII, but they showed that they are human last night. By the way, if that little 'squat and shoot' guard of theirs had not caught fire with threes early it might have been a lot different game.

[Censored by Laurie]

I'm sorry, but I've been hearing the same excuses for Howerton for the past 3 seasons. He's a senior now and it needs to stop...he hasn't developed past the point where you can stick him in the middle for 10 minutes a game and have the following 3 expectations -

1. At least 3 balls will just bounce out of his hands

2. He will leave the game with no fewer than 3 fouls

3. He will make one play, whether its a put back or a block, or draw a goofy looking charge that will make this fan base say "hey...he might be coming around."

He has to play this year...and hell, he probably has to start...but he's a career 2 and 2 guy...and you're not going to get that much more out of him unless he learns how to catch and how to control his gumby-like body. Yes he hustles, yes he works hard...probably has a lunch pail...but the game has just not clicked for him...and if it hasn't by now I dont hold out much hope that it will magically at some point this season.

Other things that may need to be put to bed - A Johnson-White backcourt...and especially a Johnson-White-Dennis backcourt...at least against a line-up rolling out 3 athletic 6'5"-6'7" wings who can all shoot lights out. Josh White can't contest a jumper from James Anderson...so even if there was good defensive rotation last night (which I've been informed was certainly lacking) the guys defending are just physically incapable of hastling a 6'5" shooting guard. A good segue:

PLAY ADAM MCCOY! 9 points, 5 rebounds, 1 steal, 3-5 from the floor, 2-3 from 3 (only player last night to shoot over 25% from 3)...all of this in 12 minutes. Add to that he's 6'4" 190, strong and arguably our best athlete. This is a game after he went 3-4 from 3...it appears that he's found his perimeter stroke...SO FIND OUT...if he struggled last night he would've just been another guard added to the list of struggling shooters (10-46, 3-17 from 3 for White, Dennis, Johnson and Thompson).

The most troubling thing to me however is the lack of a true point guard...and I think this will end up killing this team this season. A quick example - in 2006 ULM was successful with a very perimeter-oriented team that got at least 85% of their scoring from their guards...but they had a solid floor general named Brandon Roberts getting these scorers the ball in the right spots...Roberts was hurt last season and with essentially the exact same guard rotation ULM turned out to be one of the worst teams in the conference. I'm not saying that our struggles this season will be that drastic...however our shot selection plays just as much a role in 33% shooting as does just an off-night...everytime I heard TT's named mentioned I knew a shot was going up...Josh seemed to really be forcing his shot late in the game...I mean, one hit the side of the backboard...these aren't good shots and with his and Johnson's handle and quickness they should be able to draw defenders and free up teammates more frequently than they do.

Good rebounding.

[Green Crazy]

Another thing that was bothering me was all the unnecessary extra passes once they penetrated. It seemed that when our guards could get in the lane they made a short pass/hand off and our big men would more times than not fumble the ball and miss an easy put back. It looked to me like the guards had easy shots/layups and passed them up.

[Green Lantern]

Another thing that was bothering me was all the unnecessary extra passes once they penetrated. It seemed that when our guards could get in the lane they made a short pass/hand off and our big men would more times than not fumble the ball and miss an easy put back. It looked to me like the guards had easy shots/layups and passed them up.

An observation that I made watching the game as well. Our guards did a pretty good job penetrating last night, but they definitely passed up some "gimmies" for the extra pass.

I was impressed with our team rebounding. Glad to see that continue over from last year.

[greenminer]

Good rebounding.

Apologist. Get real.

[Censored by Laurie]

Another thing that was bothering me was all the unnecessary extra passes once they penetrated. It seemed that when our guards could get in the lane they made a short pass/hand off and our big men would more times than not fumble the ball and miss an easy put back. It looked to me like the guards had easy shots/layups and passed them up.

I'll take an extra pass from this group rather than a forced shot with someone wide open underneath...it shows that Josh and Dom are trying to become point guards, now they just need to learn the appropriate situations

[Green Lantern]

I'll take an extra pass from this group rather than a forced shot with someone wide open underneath...it shows that Josh and Dom are trying to become point guards, now they just need to learn the appropriate situations

He was really referring to the unnecessary extra passes...which there were several. Don't get me wrong, I want Josh and Dom to continue developing their passing skills and a more well rounded game in general, but there were instances where they did a great job of penetrating/getting to the rack and they passed on easy shots for an extra dish that ultimately got fumbled or outright stolen.

I know they are still developing players. They just need to continue to work on their decisions with the ball. Both showed some really good things in the game as well.

[Green P1]

I'm sorry, but I've been hearing the same excuses for Howerton for the past 3 seasons. He's a senior now and it needs to stop...he hasn't developed past the point where you can stick him in the middle for 10 minutes a game and have the following 3 expectations -

1. At least 3 balls will just bounce out of his hands

2. He will leave the game with no fewer than 3 fouls

3. He will make one play, whether its a put back or a block, or draw a goofy looking charge that will make this fan base say "hey...he might be coming around."

He has to play this year...and hell, he probably has to start...but he's a career 2 and 2 guy...and you're not going to get that much more out of him unless he learns how to catch and how to control his gumby-like body. Yes he hustles, yes he works hard...probably has a lunch pail...but the game has just not clicked for him...and if it hasn't by now I dont hold out much hope that it will magically at some point this season.

Poor man's Erick Dampier?

Other things that may need to be put to bed - A Johnson-White backcourt...and especially a Johnson-White-Dennis backcourt...at least against a line-up rolling out 3 athletic 6'5"-6'7" wings who can all shoot lights out. Josh White can't contest a jumper from James Anderson...so even if there was good defensive rotation last night (which I've been informed was certainly lacking) the guys defending are just physically incapable of hastling a 6'5" shooting guard. A good segue:

PLAY ADAM MCCOY! 9 points, 5 rebounds, 1 steal, 3-5 from the floor, 2-3 from 3 (only player last night to shoot over 25% from 3)...all of this in 12 minutes. Add to that he's 6'4" 190, strong and arguably our best athlete. This is a game after he went 3-4 from 3...it appears that he's found his perimeter stroke...SO FIND OUT...if he struggled last night he would've just been another guard added to the list of struggling shooters (10-46, 3-17 from 3 for White, Dennis, Johnson and Thompson).

Amen to that.

[Censored by Laurie]

He was really referring to the unnecessary extra passes...which there were several. Don't get me wrong, I want Josh and Dom to continue developing their passing skills and a more well rounded game in general, but there were instances where they did a great job of penetrating/getting to the rack and they passed on easy shots for an extra dish that ultimately got fumbled or outright stolen.

I know they are still developing players. They just need to continue to work on their decisions with the ball. Both showed some really good things in the game as well.

I understood what he was saying...my point was I don't mind seeing a few over-passes b/c at least it means their looking to pass as well as shoot. White and Johnson are good players, and JJ has a strong track record with developing guards so I have confidence in their continued progress. There were times last season, and perhaps so far this season where the pass was the obvious choice and Josh opted to force up a shot instead.

Put the pass mentality in a guards head and he'll start to learn when after a few bad turnovers (unless his initials are M.S. and he played high school ball just south of Ft. Worth...not mentioning any names.)

[foutsrouts]

I understood what he was saying...my point was I don't mind seeing a few over-passes b/c at least it means their looking to pass as well as shoot. White and Johnson are good players, and JJ has a strong track record with developing guards so I have confidence in their continued progress. There were times last season, and perhaps so far this season where the pass was the obvious choice and Josh opted to force up a shot instead.

Put the pass mentality in a guards head and he'll start to learn when after a few bad turnovers (unless his initials are M.S. and he played high school ball just south of Ft. Worth...not mentioning any names.)

You wouldn't be referring to this guy would you?

http://media.www.tri-liteonline.com/media/...n-3455457.shtml

[Green Lantern]

I understood what he was saying...my point was I don't mind seeing a few over-passes b/c at least it means their looking to pass as well as shoot. White and Johnson are good players, and JJ has a strong track record with developing guards so I have confidence in their continued progress. There were times last season, and perhaps so far this season where the pass was the obvious choice and Josh opted to force up a shot instead.

Put the pass mentality in a guards head and he'll start to learn when after a few bad turnovers (unless his initials are M.S. and he played high school ball just south of Ft. Worth...not mentioning any names.)

Agreed on the pass mentality with the guards. I know that they'll continue to get better with this aspect of the game. I guess last night, it was particularly frustrating because several of the handoffs/fumbles happend during stints of the game where we had some offensive momentum going, only to pass on an easy shot.

You're probably right that developing the pass first mentality will end up benefiting the team more coming down the stretch. If that ends up being the case, I'll happily look past early season growing pains. I just want us to be like Middle last year...streaking into the SBC tourney.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Green Lantern

[KRAM1]

I, for one, was not that disappointed in the effort UNT gave last night. It was GREAT to be able to watch it live on TV, and I hope it gave UNT some decent exposure to recruits, etc. Like I said, i think UNT played well enough for the early season road game at OSU.

I have seen the free throw "challenges" this team has, and it will be a BIG problem in conference and in the tournament if it is not corrected. I am not sure Johnny ever has the team practice free throws...if he does, it sure doesn't show. Anyone know for sure???

Also...man, this team is the worse I have EVER seen at handling the press. If OSU really decided to press all game, UNT would have really had a major problem.

So, good to see these things come out early so they can beaddressed...and they will. The way UNT opened at home in it's first two games was sloppy...to be kind against teams it should have run off the floor by halftime! So, I did like the effort, the rebounding and the spirit the team played with at OSU...good to see, and I think it is only the beginning of another VERY GOOD year for the Mean Green. Should be fun...see you at the Pit Wednesday evening...man, my rear is still sore from the game at the snake pit! The green seats at the Super Pit will sure feel nice!

[CMJ]

Kram1 - Yes JJ has them practice FT. It was even mentioned in those practice blogs meangreensports ran.

[Buford_Julep]

Every time NT missed a free throw last night...part of me died. I expect them to make every shot. It seemed to me we hit about 50%.

But when I looked at the stats this morning, it was revealed the Mean Green made 35 out of 70. That is 70% and that is well above average for NCAA. Since WWII North Texas has shot 70% or better for the season just 12 times. Coach Jones was in charge for four of those seasons.

[chrisfisher]

Every time NT missed a free throw last night...part of me died. I expect them to make every shot. It seemed to me we hit about 50%.

But when I looked at the stats this morning, it was revealed the Mean Green made 35 out of 70. That is 70% and that is well above average for NCAA. Since WWII North Texas has shot 70% or better for the season just 12 times. Coach Jones was in charge for four of those seasons.

I was shocked too to see that 70% stat. I wasn't shocked to see extremely poor shooting from our guards.