Censored by Laurie

totally. and then in '09 the FDA jumped in and told us all chicken was actually basically has healthy all along. and then around 2015 a bunch of free-thinkers were like "whoa...have you ever tried fish?!" so now we've got a deeper appreciation for our protein choices...but there's decades worth of un-learning yet to do around what meat is right for us...and god-forbid you walk into 90% of the restaurants out there and try and order a trout filet or coq au vin...they'll laugh you right out of the place. (restaurants are jobs in this analogy)

I was hoping someone would catch it

like v. need. add this into this analogy: throughout your entire life your parents, your peers and the FDA constantly told you that steak is what would keep you healthiest and strongest...and while it is possible to survive on the nutrients of chicken, your life wouldn't be as fulfilled. steak gave you a considerably higher ceiling for your future than chicken. so now that is a consideration that gets built into your dinner planning...man, steak is getting more and more expensive, but I'm still at the point where I think steak is best for me long-term so I'll start rationalizing decisions around what I've been sold my entire life is healthiest for me.

I'm tired of this argument that the entirety of this crisis is down to simple irresponsibility on behalf of the borrowers. it's not just a lazy argument, but quantifiably incorrect.

so the entirety of that responsibility falls on the 18-20 year old, but none on the institution pushing it?

I actually somewhat agree with you (if nothing else, that should keep this thread open for another few hours)...the problem here though is that what the last 15-20 years worth of college students have been sold on is not remotely what has been delivered post-college. the college experience I think we've all been sold on is that for many/most you need a college degree to enter most professional fields and that through some combination of work, scholarships, family assistance and loans you can finance that, leave with debt that is meant to be paid down in 2-5 years through salary at entry-ish level positions. far from an ideal system, but yet one that was manageable for most. I'm 40, graduated in '05 and did a grad year in '06...I just skated in under the closing door of that above social contract being valid. students entering college from say 2005 onward have also been sold that same line on college by peers/parents/society...but the back-end of the contract has not at all been held up. again, I agree with the idea of personal financial responsibility. at the same time, I want institutional financial responsibility as well. I liken this to person purchasing their first home, but never ever being informed that they need conduct an inspection, the bank never offering an appraisal nor conducting a debt-assessment (which I suppose if done for college loans is based on the idea of future salary?)...so things keep breaking, the value of the property is well below purchase price and one can barely pay the mortgage.

I'm gonna preface this reply with the perhaps surprising statement that I understand, at least in principal, the opposition to student debt forgiveness. I am a person who has carried very little debt throughout his life...I minimized my loans and worked considerably to pay for my time at UNT. I can hear those "personal responsibility" chants and they at least register with me and speak to how I've managed my finances and financial decisions. that said...I also fully recognize that I am fortunate and truly the last vestiges of a generation. I made my way through UNT right before the state deregulated tuition rates...I left UNT and entered a job market that still paid entry level workers enough to live in the then housing/rental market and not have to compromise between paying for food or student loan debt...and because of that I managed to pay my loans off in 2-3 years after graduating. those were not the conditions that the subsequent ten-plus years worth of graduates encountered despite being sold on the exact same pitch I was about college. tuition costs soared...cost of living rose considerably...hell, requirements for basic entry level positions changed (your grade school teacher does not need an effing Masters) and all the while wages stayed stagnant. these aren't political statements. its quantifiable math. and as such that generation that entered college after me faced a mountain upon leaving college, even those who managed their finances as pragmatically as I did. the math changed.

my savior, your boogyman...six of one, half dozen the other.

your report is from 2019, and data shows a drop/leveling off in 2013/2014, still very much in the Obama administration (cutely thrown in...since no one was ever discussing fuel economy before 2008) either way, no matter...I promise your penises are all still medium-light to medium, at best.

what aren't old white men triggered by these days? such a soft society. glad these boomers can't reproduce any more.

at this point everyone should be more focused on getting MDMA, Psilocybin, Ketamine and maybe LSD legal or at least decriminalized

maybe he has a point. she was peacefully arrested without incident in Russia. coin-flip says she'd be shot by law-enforcement in America.

you can 100% consult for both ExxonMobil and Chevron. players have for years competed in PGA events as well as European/Asian/South African/Canadian tour events. PGA players are ostensibly 1099 contract employees...perhaps there is some no-compete language in whatever deals they sign with the tour, but even those are subjectively enforceable

Well no…not them. Just the E.U. We know that’s safe formula because of all the government regulatio…oh crap my argument fell apart again.

also, really into this "buy more foreign goods" , kinda globalist approach being taken here.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/27/podcasts/the-daily/baby-formula-shortage-bacteria.html for anyone actually interested in a proper journalistic take...rather than one starting from it's own conclusion.

everyone here does actually know Chicago is a city, right? not a state...

thoughts and prayers

I agree that not everyone should be herded into traditional 4-year programs and I do think having a deep pool of jobs that have no degree-requirements is a good thing. however, I think that pool is shrinking...as at least from an optics perspective, companies/industries think it's important to have a college/post-grad educated work-force, even if it's really not necessary. a large contributor to the student loan debt crisis has been over-education requirements for entry/low-level positions without adequate compensation. teaching for example. many school districts are now requiring all teachers have or be actively pursuing a Masters degree for employment...so while already the increased cost of a four-year early education degree has far outpaced a rise in wages for a 2nd grade teacher, now too many need to add 2-3 years more worth of loans in order to be considered for a $40k/year job.

going to float out the idea that we're concerned about the wrong paragraph here. the first paragraph is the more alarming and cause for further thought.

nothing communicates strong and confident masculinity quite like homophobia.

as the only poster who could give 5 solid minutes of game time, I already took my name out of the hat.

and he critiques hair style and fashion. wow. what a modern man. you're lovely. what Taylor Swift tracks really make you well up with emotion? for me it's the 10 minute re-issue of All Too Well. I mean, really...c'mon Jake...just give her back her scarf already, right?

honestly, the most astounding take-away from this entire thread was @MeanGreenPatriot’s proper use of modern pronouns in the title. dude. kudos to you and personal growth and sensitivity