Censored by Laurie

how do we count Barry and Other Barry?

I can't help it that the pro-life crowd is all of a sudden taking up the "let's let some olds die" banner. I also can't help that we have leadership whose progression on this crisis has been: 1. hoax 2. under control 3. -shrug emoji- bleach? 4. state's rights 5. distancing 6. go protest distancing 7. every conspiracy theory under the sun (which might kill covid). I want to think I'm objective enough to say that even if the ghost of Che Obama led in this manner I'd be at least skeptical, if not outraged. our response and messaging has been shitty. if this were completely domestically isolated, I can see how that would be a subjective if not biased statement. but it's not. again...literal world of data out there. one MAGA joke didn't politicize this at all, so save the piety for drive-up church. to your question...I'm sure you've a cache of tweets from @cheobama69 that proves my statement wrong. I meant more that those who can think rationally recognized all along that the x-axis of covid risk was going to have to eventually meet the everyone's out of work and we're all broke y-axis. (assuming of course no one wanted to visit the a-axis of freeze everything...debt, mortgage, rent... plus the b-axis of we're a wealthy enough nation to give more than $1200/person to artificially prop up active industry)

he's far from the most articulate, but his point is one that every one of you would be making in your jobs as well. the initial MLB proposal was for half salary should an 80-ish game season take place...your contract says 5 mil...here's 2.5 for half the games. the player's association was reluctant as it recognized precedent could be set moving forward, but at least somewhat amenable. the subsequent was a 50/50 split between owners and players for the revenue generated. I've no idea what normal seasonal revenue looks like...let's say $10B...if 50%-ish percent is usually committed to player salary and a shortened season only generates $5B, then everything is honky-dory. but if it generates $2B, maybe there is some loss in franchise value, but the owners aren't taking any direct hit...there is still a revenue stream. the pie for the players is considerably smaller. you can make fun of Snell (and Trevor Bauer) for their delivery, but on principle if you're anti-player in this situation then you're literally supporting billionaire owners in crafting an arrangement that insures minimal loss and risk on their part while the actual product is seeing their contractually agreed upon salaries get sythed-off at the knees.

again...it feels like people promoting caution and care...based on numbers and world data and response...have some sort of agenda and end game in mind, beyond public safety. what is it?

what is your metric for "not as bad as originally thought"? the US's worst flu season over the last decade was 17-18...approximately 800,000 cases; 60,000 deaths...and save for the rare anecdotal story of a school closing for a week due to a pronounced outbreak, that's with next to zero distancing or change in regular life. per Johns Hopkins, we're over 1.5 million cases and knocking on the door of 100,000 deaths...with significant distancing measures in place...even if distancing has only reduced the spread by 10% (it's more), you're at twice the cases and deaths of the worst flu season. is that not enough deaths? do you have a hard number in mind? distancing measures were put in place both to help control transmissions, but more importantly to ease immediate strain and burden on the health care system....1.5 million cases over 2 months is a lot more manageable than 1.5 million in 2 weeks. distancing, in some measure, has worked...not just here, but we have a literal world's worth of data as well...as has somehow been forgotten, this isn't just a US pandemic: https://www.endcoronavirus.org/countries?fbclid=IwAR24iBHJBNhWTdvYBhxoB384SljYGoPZDk67TF5PWStKd6D5juiQ436sk0o take Iceland. their first recorded case was Feb 28. by March 3 they issued quarantine orders. they've developed testing and tracing apps. they limited spread to 1800 cases and 10 deaths (population 360,000) by June 15, they're planning to re-open for international tourism, with mandated testing upon arrival. I have no illusions that the US has the ability (amongst other things) to distance and respond on a similar scale, but it shows what distancing measures can accomplish. I have seen no one argue that we keep the economy on lock down until we have a vaccine. I certainly don't believe that. 50-60% of my income is based on the restaurant industry...and 100% of the income of very good friends and loved ones. I think the government could've done a lot more for my industry by getting out of the way...my state, Maine, recently allowed to-go cocktail sales in addition to food/beer/wine...but only a few weeks ago...and my company's home state of Massachusetts, like Texas, continues to prevent it (this country's effing Protestant "values"). I support a gradual re-opening of many industries. but in doing so I feel there needs to be a mass recognition that re-opening isn't going to look "normal". masks, distancing, limited capacities, lines should be a requirement...as should an expectation that we're right back where we started if we fail...but somehow not even shared sacrifice, but shared inconvenience is too much for many (often the same people with munitions and beans for 20 years in their doomsday bunkers. can't go 2 months without a haircut. snowflakes) I want nothing more than to sit down to a whiskey at my favorite bar and pretend everything is normal. and if the risk in doing so was just mine, I'd already have been there. but it's not just my risk...my actions affect others. I've long believed that most people go through life with the belief that their world extends no further than a 5 foot bubble around them...and the individualistic/selfish culture of our country certainly exacerbates this. I fear we're going to see that play out this summer. people ignoring regulations because they're not "scarred"...or because a mask is uncomfortable...or because big government is impeding their civil liberties.

he just so desperately wants to make america great again at something...even if it's just being #1 in deaths https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

I guess the idea of American Exceptionalism is far more ingrained than I knew. there are existing blue-prints from other nations on how to limit/beat this. to the bolded part...and for the life of me, I can't understand how this got so lost and turned around in this conversation..."herd immunity" implies the availability of a vaccine...to advocate otherwise is just bug-chasing and ridiculously dangerous. for as much as some of you laud the "greatest generation" for their ability of shared sacrifice, you're really showing that you're too spoiled to actually follow through. its been 2 months and you can't handle not getting a hair cut and a blooming onion...and even as we phase into a re-open, you can't be bothered with a facial covering.

https://www.endcoronavirus.org/countries?fbclid=IwAR24iBHJBNhWTdvYBhxoB384SljYGoPZDk67TF5PWStKd6D5juiQ436sk0o

don't really have a strong opinion on Flynn...just here hoping this benefit of the doubt vis-a-vis criminal acts and law enforcement continues in the future... considers posting Georgia news...😶

I think everyone does. I have seen very few "GO COVID, GO" banners. hope isn't a drug, though.

I don't think anyone is wanting a medicine to fail. I think most of the pushback has been borne from the fact that Trump has suggested things off-the-cuff, in the face of or at least in advance of medical science confirmation and that could actually be dangerous. see the article CMJ posted on how HCQ works, why it is an effective treatment for lupus and malaria, COULD be an effective treatment for COVID-19, but could also be dangerous. if there is a "rooting" element against, it's not directed at the medicine, but the idea of just how much more egotistical and insufferable Trump will be if one of these darts lands. that said...I do hope you both (and others) possess the self-awareness to realize you're doing the exact same thing (in the inverse). for whatever reason HCQ is your new political football and you're willing to look to anecdotal success stories and ignore the available medical studies/human clinical trials.

Your CoronaVirus Questions Answered

well... you have one group of people who are more community/communally focused...people who recognize that they function within a society and that their actions and decisions extend beyond their person/immediate family. in this situation, they take personal responsibility for helping contain the spread by acting with caution (possibly an abundance), limiting contact and adjusting and sacrificing in their own lives for the sake of the community. then you have another group of people driven more by personal preservation...people who believe their individual freedoms and liberties are license to prioritize self-interest over that of the collective whole. in this situation, they've assigned personal responsibility to others by insisting only the vulnerable need to adjust their lives. this mentality certainly extends beyond the current pandemic, but I'd say those numbers make pretty plain the root of the philosophical divide.

I was just reading this as well. I think it lays out about as plainly as possible why HCQ isn't the quick fix and can actually be harmful.

I understand this sentiment on a personal level, but do you believe this sentiment is grounds for forming broad medical decisions?

I guess what I don't understand...in the minds of those insistent this is a hoax, over-blown by the media, and infringing on their god-given freedoms...what exactly is the end game for those championing the idea of staying home?

wait...so just being president absolves a person from sexual assault in you mind? that's douchebaging bonkers just a cursory "Tara Reade" google search pulls up multiple articles over the last week from legitimate news organiza...oops, sorry...the liberal lamestream media. now...let's play devil's advocate...let's say the Biden story isn't getting the same font as the Kavanaugh story...is the a non-partisan difference in reporting imperatives from 2 summers ago and now? like...I don't know...a global pandemic? investigate them all.

rapist, so long as he's anti-abortion? vehement support tier-three profanity? find the feinting couch, I don't know however I will withstand such perfidy

I'm not super locked in on the presidential race right now, but here...if there are even the slightest wisps of credible allegations against Joe Biden, I want a fair and impartial investigation into them and if there is an abundance of evidence or even perception that causes Biden to lose a race or nomination then so be it. now you other pious team-sport-Politik dicks say the same thing about your rapists or admit that you've traded any sense of ethic and morality you might have once had for a partisan win.

he'll quote-reply every single one of your posts, but here...silence? maybe he meant "google it" rhetorically?

this thread is just the most meta thing this board has ever done

who the eff is running oversight on the various stimulus programs?

or all of it, like Shake Shack did