North Texas Loses to FIU - How Dire is the Situation in Denton

[NorthTexasWeLove]

Just now, Cerebus said:

MBB has been on a tear, and it's been... nice.   We got some local media coverage, especially for the NCAA Tourney win. 

The same success in football would bring 10x the attention.  Can you imagine what would happen if we got an expanded CFP spot?  It would be a huge story.  Donations would explode. 

 

I am a fan of basketball, I want a baseball team, but I know the only thing that is going to drive attention and donations in a big big way is football. 

 

This will never happen. Never say never, but I think I'm safe here. But what can happen in football here is the triple option. And to be honest, we very well could field a more consistent program doing it. 

Basketball can be a very viable marketer for a university. 

[Cerebus]

1 minute ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Basketball can be a very viable marketer for a university. 

Yeah, in the North East.  I am sure Drexel is a big story in Philly.

 

We already tried this, under Chancellor Hurley.  All the "culture" problems we have with Denton, HS coaches, alumni giving, local media, etc come directly from that.  Once we didn't take footballs seriously everyone looked down on us. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

Just now, Cerebus said:

Yeah, in the North East.  I am sure Drexel is a big story in Philly.

 

We already tried this, under Chancellor Hurley.  All the "culture" problems we have with Denton, HS coaches, alumni giving, local media, etc come directly from that.  Once we didn't take footballs seriously everyone looked down on us. 

The northeast thing isn't true. There are programs in every corner of this country that prioritize basketball over football. 

[Cerebus]

Just now, NorthTexasWeLove said:

The northeast thing isn't true. There are programs in every corner of this country that prioritize basketball over football. 

Just not in Texas.  Where the university, our alumni, the local media, HS coaches, etc, all are located. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

It would cost too much to fire someone after 1 year of a longer deal, even if Morris isn’t highly paid. This ain’t SMU where alums can write checks to get rid of coaches, get into conferences, and pay for players.

If you want to get the best idea going forward, it’s for the program to honestly see if it can do anything in the next 3 years under Morris and if it can’t, like we are Dodge 2.0 again and we win like 6 games in the next three years, I think we need to seriously ask ourselves if FBS is in our best interests. 
 

We moved up in 1995, not because we wanted to win, but because we could make more whoring out ourselves. Then, as the university grew and we could get students to pay for the stadium and majority of the program’s funding, we moved up budget-wise to a nice G5 program. But it just doesn’t translate on the field. 6 winning seasons out of 28 seasons. Maybe FCS in today’s environment would just be better for us. 

NT was getting top 25 votes less than 4 years ago, coming off back-to-back 9-win seasons.  

It can be done, but it’s absolutely mind-boggling how we just happen to find a terrible hire right when we’re primed & we need them to take us to the next level (Benford after Jones, Morris after Littrell).

The idea of dropping football is really stupid…. But we can’t afford these awful hires.

[Professor Lambeau]

How dire is the situation? #hit1

[GrayEagle]

1 hour ago, GoMeanGreen1999 said:

This season is lost.  With Dodge, we knew after game 1 we were in trouble.  OU could have put a 100 on us that day without blinking.  You are right, this season is over.  This is Benford bad.  Sadly, it will take years to right what this year will do to do this program.  If you can't stop the other offense, it doesn't matter how many points you can score.  Blows my mind how we just continue to hire the wrong up and comer hire after hire after hire in football.

I hate to see someone start with "the season is lost."  How many conference games have we lost?  Yes, things look dire at this point, but wait until we've dropped a conference game or two before you complain that the season is lost and you won't be back.  I can easily understand your disappointment...I'm disappointed myself.  But, I don't quit yet; in fact, I won't acknowledge publicly that I will ever quit (until I'm six feet under).  I saw my first North Texas game in 1947 and except for seven seasons when I only saw a total of four games due to service time and living several hundred miles away for my work.  I was in the area when we were demoted to 1AA so I know what it means to want to quit.  So even if you want to quit or even do quit, don't publicize it.  That doesn't mean don't complain.
 

Edited September 10, 2023 by GrayEagle

[NorthTexasWeLove]

3 minutes ago, GrayEagle said:

I hate to see someone start with "the season is lost."  How many conference games have we lost?  Yes, things look dire at this point, but wait until we've dropped a conference game or two before you complain that the season is lost and you won't be back.  I can easily understand your disappointment...I'm disappointed myself.  But, I don't quit yet; in fact, I won't acknowledge publicly that I will ever quit (until I'm six feet under).  I saw my first North Texas game in 1947 and except for seven seasons when I only saw a total of four games due to service time and living several hundred miles away for my work.  I was in the area when we were demoted to 1AA so I know what it means to want to quit.  So even if you want to quit or even do quit, don't publicize it.  That doesn't mean don't complain.
 

If tremedous growth and downright change doesn't happen we will not win a conference game. Every team in the AAC beats FIU, except UNT. 

[Cerebus]

Just now, NorthTexasWeLove said:

If tremedous growth and downright change doesn't happen we will not win a conference game. Every team in the AAC beats FIU, except UNT. 

@jtm0097

[greenminer]

I like to think @Cerebus and @NorthTexasWeLove are both a little right and wrong.

I would think a S16 or even an E8 run could do wonders for our culture.

But I also respect the Hurley perspective: telling our DFW base that we don't take football seriously is, well, bad.

I think we're doing the right things, even if this year under Morris sucks.  The next 5-10 years of conference alignment stuff is critical, I suspect this is the final round before there is a formal breakaway, and commissioners see our financial commitment to figuring this out.  Even if the general public does not.

Edited September 10, 2023 by greenminer

[GrayEagle]

1 minute ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

If tremendous growth and downright change doesn't happen we will not win a conference game. Every team in the AAC beats FIU, except UNT. 

Truth be told, no one in the AAC has played FIU this year.

 

[Got5onIt]

Why is the AD not getting any heat for this???

[Side.Show.Joe]

22 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

Yeah, in the North East.  I am sure Drexel is a big story in Philly.

 

We already tried this, under Chancellor Hurley.  All the "culture" problems we have with Denton, HS coaches, alumni giving, local media, etc come directly from that.  Once we didn't take footballs seriously everyone looked down on us. 

This is very true. But in my opinion, continuing to prop up our current failures, will only further cement that narrative. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

4 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I like to think @Cerebus and @NorthTexasWeLove are both a little right and wrong.

I would think a S16 or even an E8 run could do wonders for our culture.

But I also respect the Hurley perspective: telling our DFW base that we don't take football seriously is, well, bad.

I think we're doing the right things, even if this year under Morris sucks.  The next 5-10 years of conference alignment stuff is critical, I suspect this is the final round before there is a formal breakaway, and commissioners see our financial commitment to figuring this out.  Even if the general public does not.

Moving to the flex or spread/opt doesn't mean we don't care. It means that we have caved to the notion that UNT football cannot and will not compete in conventional manners. We can still care. We need to stay D1. We need to stay competitive. But we need to change our approach... clearly. 

Then boost basketball. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

4 minutes ago, Got5onIt said:

Why is the AD not getting any heat for this???

[greenminer]

6 minutes ago, Got5onIt said:

Why is the AD not getting any heat for this???

What kind of heat are you expecting? A Twitter army? A phone call barrage?

[NorthTexasWeLove]

11 minutes ago, GrayEagle said:

Truth be told, no one in the AAC has played FIU this year.

 

I think it's a safe and fair assumption. 

[Side.Show.Joe]

6 hours ago, Meangreen Fight said:

If you can I want people to go to this video and imagine they are speaking of a head coach and coaching staff until about minute 11:25.  Where do we go from here? I think if this is year 2, starting off like this you have to fire him.   The QB waffling is disturbingly idiotic.  So many shortcomings of this team can be directly attributed to the coaching.   I don’t even fault them for the poor tackling.   Everything but the pure effort on the field is coaching.  And now with the transfer portal first year coaches shouldn’t get as much leeway when it comes to not having to talent on par with the middle of their conference.  We can’t fire him after year one.  But his job and the AD’s job should be open come mid/late September 2024 next year if they come out remotely looking like they have these first 2 games.

I've calmed down since last night, but it doesn't change the fact that changes need to be made. I agree with Brune's take on our problems, but not his opinion that we should accept that Morris is here for at least two seasons. Just because the administration may keep him, doesn't mean the fans will be willing to keep him. I guess we will find out after LA Tech when ACU comes to DATCU. 

If I'm Jared, Morris would be in my office first thing Monday morning with a plan to correct this mess that they can sell to our fan base. And I'd make it very clear that Caponi would be coaching for his job in Ruston next Saturday. Under those terms, we will see how strongly he believes in that 3-3-5 defense, or if he can come up with something better. 

[Meangreen Fight]

5 hours ago, southsideguy said:

 I hear them say it is hard at UNT.  It cant be any worse than any most cities in the country.  There is something deeper.

It is no deeper than administration and big donors being on board with striving for mediocrity. Like others have harped on before no serious program gives any coach 2 extensions while never winning bowl game, having a 10 win regular season, or conference title. (Most programs you have to do 2 of those 3 minimum to get 2 extensions)  It is that striving to be medicore is good enough mentality that gets people scolded for dreaming about trying to make Coach Sanders an offer while at he is still at the FCS level winning.  This leadership's decision making has beaten us down that even dreaming about trying hard   or making a big gamble  that makes sense it is like we are in the Shawshank Redemption of fanbases.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Meangreen Fight

[GrayEagle]

17 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I'd think that he has put plenty of heat on himself over what's transpired.

[Got5onIt]

30 minutes ago, greenminer said:

What kind of heat are you expecting? A Twitter army? A phone call barrage?

Smatty threatening to put a size 12 up his ass. 

[jtm0097]

50 minutes ago, Cerebus said:

@jtm0097

[Mike Jackson]

1 hour ago, Cerebus said:

Have you guys gone outside recently and noticed how hot it is?  That's because we are in Texas, not the North East.

Athletics is more or less used for advertising and fund raising.  Here in Texas that is predicated on football success. 

You missed the point.  They could run the program on a much cheaper football support staff standpoint and get these same atrocious results.  Maybe you have to up your coach compensation to look better for conferences you are trying to upgrade to.  That is no longer the case because there is no where to go but P4 to upgrade now.  

[Cerebus]

9 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

You missed the point.  They could run the program on a much cheaper football support staff standpoint and get these same atrocious results.

You could, and as far as the alumni, Denton residents, local coaches, media, etc would be concerned  we would be third rate.  You would have to get to multiple final fours for anyone to see past the terrible football. 

The only path to lasting relevance is elevating the football program.  We've been much more successful in other sports and it just isn't the same impact.   That's not my choice, it's just the reality of where we live. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

11 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

You missed the point.  They could run the program on a much cheaper football support staff standpoint and get these same atrocious results.  Maybe you have to up your coach compensation to look better for conferences you are trying to upgrade to.  That is no longer the case because there is no where to go but P4 to upgrade now.  

This was what I was kinda worried about when we fired Littrell, but went cheaper on Morris.   Everyone said it was OK, because our support staff salaries went up as a result, and I must admit, that’s a good thing.   But it’s certainly a gamble.  There’s that old saying… “you get what you pay for.”   There’s no coupons when it comes to CFB coaches.