Changing the culture at UNT

[MeanGreenTexan]

I just heard an advertisement for the Troy game this weekend on Pandora emploring listeners to buy tickets to this weekend's game and highlighting tailgating as well.

It's a start!

[TheColonyEagle]

As of the TSU game, I have yet to see anything like that.

I guess I'm anxious because we have another historical chance to significantly change things. We have a coach who has aggressively gone about changing the culture of the football team. And unless there is an equal amount of noticeable outward energy happening on the promotions side, we are going to lose another opportunity to change this culture.

IMHO, passively waiting for the football team to start winning and thereby changing the culture on the campus and the community is not going to translate into a long term culture change at North Texas.

So if Silver were the AD, what would he do?

Edited September 20, 2012 by TheColonyEagle

[UNT 90 Grad]

So if Silver were the AD, what would he do?

More cowbell.

[KRAM1]

I wish you the best of luck on the student chapter. This has been tried several times and I don't think participation has ever hit critical mass where the chapter became self-sustaining.

That's true, but it also has never had the support behind it that it has this time around....so, here's thinking this time around it might just be different and successful. The key is involvement...involvement from Alums, from the UNT administration, from the Alumni staff and from other student organizations. If this group "does stuff" and doesn't just meet for an hour every two weeks or so, it will flourish and grow. UNT has the leadership in place, it seems to be behind this program...so, to me, it seems to have every chance in the world to be successful. Shame on all of us if it doesn't succeed this time!

[SilverEagle]

So if Silver were the AD, what would he do?

Just off the top of my head....and just as a beginning.

Hire Jim Hobdy to run things..... mainly promotions, game day operations, and the Mean Green club.

Hire KRAM1 to be in charge of volunteers (the outreach and training)

Hire (or contract with) Letsgiveacheer to re-work the game day pageantry for the band......or establish some.

Get one (or all) of our wheel club partners to give us the use of at least 4, four door pickups for general use around Denton and the metroplex. And get their permission to have a very eye-catching wrap job (with lots of SOW imagery)done on all of them (I think a North Texas grad does that sort of thing). So that when there are even mundane trips to Dallas and Fort Worth for various reasons, we have a rolling billboard going around the metroplex. Much like Bill Vogel did with his mean green van (with a big flying worm on each side) of the Hayden Fry era.

Move to make the Talons an organization more like a fraternity/sorority with a house on fraternity row. And start fund raising (mainly done by ex-Talons) for scholarships. Scholarships are awarded for a combination of grades and the amount of events they have actively participated in or was the coordinator for the event.

Edited September 20, 2012 by SilverEagle

[GrandGreen]

I think it is obviously that McCarney is changing the culture of the football team by hard work, a good plan and shear determination. Changing the culture of NT's potential fan base including the community, students and alums is going to be much harder. Continued success on the field is the only thing that is going to do that.

A breakout year like ULL, ASU and WKU all had last year would be a great start. There is a lot more competition for the sports dollar here, so it is a lot harder to gain fans but a winning year and entry into CUSU should give NT the momentum to really grow this program.

[jimbob]

I like this "Beyond the Number" program on Mean Green Sports every Thursday. It looks like someone is trying to get the student body and fans to get to know the players outside of football, which can only create more interest. It's a little thing, but it's got some legs. There should be one up tonight.

http://www.meangreen...&DB_OEM_ID=1800

Edited September 20, 2012 by jimbob

[KRAM1]

It blows me away that the University isn't looking to fill Apogee for EVERY SINGLE GAME. Why wait for a single game in particular?

Just where in the heck did this come from? How in the world can you make such a statement? This sort iof statement just blows me away...some folks are just not looking. Either that or they refuse to acknowledge all the stuff going on these days all over campus leading up to game days. One can only do so much...yes, we could all do more and so could the university, but if anyone thinks the university isn't trying today compared to what it was doing just 3-4 years ago...well, you just simply are not looking or refuse to see.

More to come yes indeed...more ideas, more activities, but at some point the fan base, alumni and students have to step up...when the school and athletic dept. beats its collective heads against a brick wall time and time again and when Coach Mac does all he can do and still no student, fan and/or alum turnout to compare to the efforts exerted, well...those efforts will not increase...and might just decrease. Time for the fans, the students, the alumni and YES...the community in and around Denton to do its part as well. I see this as a two way street. Very tired of all the folks who want to be spoon fed and take no responsibility for what THEY CAN do.....Seriously? The University doesn't want a full stadium, really?

I was on campus just yesterday and saw signs, saw announcements regarding Tailgating on the Hill, flyer's about Family Weekend that included the game and the Friday night pep rally and on and on and on...just what is the administration to do? They already seem to be doing quite a bit.....I got emails this week from the Mean Green Club about the game...you are a Mean green Club member, right? I saw posters up all over town with the schedule...in fact I saw a new one at my cleaners in Denton on Teasley Lane just yesterday and wondered why I had not thought of that one when delivering posters around town before the season...I also believe that the Denton-Record Chronicle has ads in it about each game...I am at a loss as to where such sentiment as above comes from these days....

[Stix]

I was on campus just yesterday and saw signs, saw announcements regarding Tailgating on the Hill, flyer's about Family Weekend that included the game and the Friday night pep rally and on and on and on...

Some evidence that a lot of parents are coming for family weekend - according to these chain's websites, there are no rooms available this weekend at the Hampton Inn, Hilton Garden Inn, Homewood Suites, and the two La Quintas. Of course, I don't know how many will go to the game, but if there are flyers about it, then the parents know about it.

[TIgreen01]

You're talking about maybe 10 programs in the country that will show up no matter what.

I went to a Longhorn game when I was in highschool in the 90s....there were plenty of seats available.

I'm sorry Silver, it is wins and only wins that will get this turned around. Do you think the Rangers were sitting around trying to figure out how to get people in the stands when they were finishing 3rd and 4th every year? What have they done differently from a marketing standpoint to break the 3 million mark in attendance this year? Their marketing department is Ron Washington. Just like our marketing department is Dan McCarney. Watch what happens in Boise, Idaho the first time they go 6-6. The Cowboys will not sell out that stadium if they go 7-9.

Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX is and always will be a winners town, period.

I understand what you're saying. It frustrates me too. But what the hell is the AD supposed to do to get people to choose to show up to the games when we've been so bad for so long?

It's going to take more time.

Go 8-4 followed by 10-2 with a bowl win in between and you'll all the sudden see the culture magically change.

Gonna take wins and nothing else.

We had a run from 2001-2005 but crappy facilities. Then we had nice facilities with crappy football.

We have never seen the two hit at the same time and I think when we do....this thing is going to explode.

This * infinity.

Sweet mercy, people around here act like no other school has douche bag t-shirt fans and students. Newsflash, THEY ALL DO when wins aren't piling up.

[SilverEagle]

BTW, the Green Brigades pre-game entrance is (still) at best..... pedestrian*. And their pageantry leading up to the fight song is still....well......non-existent. And, in light of their national reputation regarding music and musical performance, it's a very sad irony.

pe·des·tri·an

adjective pə-ˈdes-trē-ən

*Definition of PEDESTRIAN

1

:

commonplace

,

unimaginative

2

a

:

going or performed on foot

b

:

of, relating to, or designed for walking

Edited September 26, 2012 by SilverEagle

[forevereagle]

rep·e·ti·tion

   [rep-i-tish-uhn]

noun

1.the act of repeating; repeated action, performance,production, or presentation.

2.repeated utterance; reiteration.

3.something made by or resulting from repeating.

4.a reproduction, copy, or replica.

Edited September 26, 2012 by forevereagle

[UNTFan23]

BTW, the Green Brigades pre-game entrance is (still) at best..... pedestrian*. And their pageantry leading up to the fight song is still....well......non-existent. And, in light of their national reputation regarding music and musical performance, it's a very sad irony.

pe·des·tri·an

adjective pə-ˈdes-trē-ən

*Definition of PEDESTRIAN

1

:

commonplace

,

unimaginative

2

a

:

going or performed on foot

b

:

of, relating to, or designed for walking

Just sayin ...

Edited September 26, 2012 by UNTFan23

[untjim1995]

I'm not sure that a huge culture change is possible in Denton. You would be changing a century of apathy toward athletics. Its better now than it probably ever has been, but the College of Music is still the biggest draw from the local citizenry and we still have a lot of "fans" who come to a game just to watch the Green Brigade march at halftime and then they are gone afterwards. I'm not sure that any team in this state not named Texas or A&M can really sustain itself with constant losing or playing a schedule of home games against teams that the state-wide media just won't cover. In building a sustainable fanbase, I just think the biggest key is getting to play big name teams and playing those games on major networks on Saturdays during the season. I think about a team like Tech, that just soared upward back in 2008 when just about everything went their way, until they played OU in Norman. They had been building a decent program for a while, then got a few special recurits (Crabtree and Harrell) and made something happen against teams that were big names and also ranked. In turn, they got huge rankings and huge viewership because of those variables I mentioned. But now, just 4 years later, if Tech isn't playing a big name team, their games aren't nearly as big of a deal, even if they still get decent crowds out there in Lubbock. They aren't what they were in 2008 and 2009, and now that Tuberville hasn't really shown their fans any reason to believe that the good ol'days of Leach are ever coming back, their support will dwindle even more--just like it has at the other Texas schools when they aren't very good. Baylor and TCU have commnuity (church and city) backing, which is what allows them to try and compete with AQ teams at a higher level, but even then they don't get big crowds unless they are winning big. SMU and Rice don't have that same support, so they don't get any attention. As we have seen with UTEP--and I suspect UTSA if they can win down there--the bigger metro areas that don't have a pro team will support their winning teams in a big way, since they are the only gig in town, but don't at all when they are not good. A team like UH can draw nicely when they win, but they lose a lot of those fair-weather fans when they aren't that great, just because Houston is so big and has lots of other interests (i.e., pro teams) to take away from their support. That is what North Texas faces, too.

Denton is not that different from other places when it comes to the fair-weather fans, but it has been completely different, in that for decades, the animosity it has felt for North Texas athletics has been ridiculous. Most other towns wouldn't let their home university play in a toilet bowl for 50 years, nor would they have allowed the university to drop down to 1-aa, but Denton was just fine with both of those and really never embraced us moving back up to 1-A back in 1995. That part, although it has changed some, still prevails in a big way up there. If you don't believe that, just think of how the student fee passed and how mad people were that it got passed. Unfortunately, that type of thought won't go away in Denton unless you get what Tech got, which has been to gain full favor with UT. Because, just as TCU, Baylor, and SMU have found out, having Texas on your side can make a big difference in $$$$ and media coverage in this state. When you don't have it or lose it like TCU, UH. and SMU have seen in the past two decades, you just don't get the attention that the other UT-affiliated schools get. And, to show that it isn't just here, look at Tulane or La Tech without LSU, Tulsa without OU, and especially Arkansas State without Arkansas. Culturally speaking, none of those schools ever have a chance to build a seriously strong amount of support when there is one dominant program in your state, unless you win big constantly, which rarely happens over a long period of time. Its just how NFL-lite schools operate. They choose those they want to partner with and let them suck on the hound, so to speak. And the fans in these states follow the other schools other than the big guy just because the big guy is in their league or plays them every year. If you want the truest culture change as was mentioned earlier, get North Texas in the Big XII with Texas, Tech, Baylor, and TCU. Get in the SEC with A&M. And then win--because otherwise, we just stay in the same boat that all of the other schools not named Texas and A&M get to enjoy in this state. Sadly, in this state, you just have to depend on them to garner media attention and then beat them to gain support that can last a lifetime--that is what TCU, Baylor, and Tech have all done, even if it also catches a lot of fair-weather fans, too.

Edited September 27, 2012 by untjim1995

[UNTLifer]

I firmly believe that RV, Coach Mac, etc... are building this the right way. Integrate the students from the day they set foot on campus, keep them engaged and connect with them as they graduate. That will build attendance over time and will help in filling up Apogee. The citizens of Denton will come to Apogee when the recognize an old Southwest Conference foe but will never assist in filling up the arenas at North Texas. I grew up in Denton and this has baffled me for years because so many people are connected to NT either through employment or serving the needs of the employees and students of North Texas, but beyond that, they just aren't interested. Students and alumni will be the ones to fill Apogee.

[CurveItAround]

Wow, just snap our fingers and move to the Big12 or SEC. Oh, and while we are at it win against those teams as well. I can't believe our AD has not thought of that plan. He should be fired.

[forevereagle]

Wow, just snap our fingers and move to the Big12 or SEC. Oh, and while we are at it win against those teams as well. I can't believe our AD has not thought of that plan. He should be fired.

Careful, this is how we end up replacing football with sarcastiball.

[untjim1995]

Wow, just snap our fingers and move to the Big12 or SEC. Oh, and while we are at it win against those teams as well. I can't believe our AD has not thought of that plan. He should be fired.

Maybe I didn't make my sarcasm very clear. I don't think that will ever happen here, but to get the culture change Silver was talking about, that's the only way he will ever see what he wants from a support standpoint.

Edited September 27, 2012 by untjim1995

[CurveItAround]

I definitely missed a bit of the sacrasm on the first read. No harm intended. Apologies.

I am just at the point that instead of trying to be someone else, I am ready to just be UNT. We are not going to get invited to their party anytime soon so instead of hanging around and letting them think we are desperate and let them get their jollies by watching up jump through hoops, let's go our own way. It's like chasing the hot girl who isn't interested because she knows you are willing to chase her. You have no chance. But, go off an be successful on your own and don't pay her a lot of attention, and guess who all of a sudden starts showing a little interest.

TCU is a great example, look at what they did. After they got over the shock of being left out after the SWC breakup, they decided 'to hell with all of you' (in a very christian like manner of course). They went off an built their own success, built from within, and didn't try to be someone else. Lo and behold, all the hangers on that have been waiting for conference expansion were passed over and little old TCU was there to step in. Good for them.

UNT does not have to become a/the state of Texas flagship school for me to be happy. I can be perfectly content if they build a program that consistently has winning seasons (probably means giving up the body bag gams against top 15 types and becoming the payor instead of the payee), occasionally has 9 or 10 win seasons, frequently competes for conference titles (and even wins a couple), is able to average 25k (or more!) per game. These all seem to be attainable goals. Please, do that for a decade and let me see if I become bored with it. I would love to complain about yet another 8 win season, losing/winning conference championship game, how weak our OOC sechedule is, etc...

GO MEAN GREEN!

[PlummMeanGreen]

And culture change includes negating/overcoming the "we live in the D/FW area and D/FW fans are all fair weather" attitude/excuse. Fans come back when they feel that they are actually a part of something. North Texas students/alumni/fans have never felt that way.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, Bill, you subtle rascal, you. I think I know where your headed with all this but....are you sure you want to join the Darth Vader Chapter of Mean Green fandom?

GMG!

PS: Body bag games? How so close we really came against #15 ranked Kansas State. We do need to avoid scheduling the Top 5 or Top 10 schools for the moment, though, but we have to slip some ranked schools (#11 thru #25?) on our future schedules because even once we're in CUSA where Top 25 rankings have been the annual norm in year's past we as a newbie' member will not get ranked until we beat some ranked schools.

GMG ! !

Edited September 27, 2012 by PlummMeanGreen

[Harry]

I definitely missed a bit of the sacrasm on the first read. No harm intended. Apologies.

I am just at the point that instead of trying to be someone else, I am ready to just be UNT. We are not going to get invited to their party anytime soon so instead of hanging around and letting them think we are desperate and let them get their jollies by watching up jump through hoops, let's go our own way. It's like chasing the hot girl who isn't interested because she knows you are willing to chase her. You have no chance. But, go off an be successful on your own and don't pay her a lot of attention, and guess who all of a sudden starts showing a little interest.

TCU is a great example, look at what they did. After they got over the shock of being left out after the SWC breakup, they decided 'to hell with all of you' (in a very christian like manner of course). They went off an built their own success, built from within, and didn't try to be someone else. Lo and behold, all the hangers on that have been waiting for conference expansion were passed over and little old TCU was there to step in. Good for them.

UNT does not have to become a/the state of Texas flagship school for me to be happy. I can be perfectly content if they build a program that consistently has winning seasons (probably means giving up the body bag gams against top 15 types and becoming the payor instead of the payee), occasionally has 9 or 10 win seasons, frequently competes for conference titles (and even wins a couple), is able to average 25k (or more!) per game. These all seem to be attainable goals. Please, do that for a decade and let me see if I become bored with it. I would love to complain about yet another 8 win season, losing/winning conference championship game, how weak our OOC sechedule is, etc...

GO MEAN GREEN!

Damn good post mate!

[MeanGreenWithEnvy]

The reason the engagement puzzle never gets solved is because any time this topic comes up a significant number of folks around here trot out their favorite whipping post (apathetic students, disengaged alums, lazy administration, Denton, frats, etc.) instead of taking a sober, empirical look at the numbers and starting the conversation from there. Let's take a quick jaunt through this list:

Apathetic students: Dude, if you think student participation is bad now, you should have been here, oh, I don't know, any time in the last 20 years. I've been around for most of that time period and if you don't want to believe that students will turn out to watch a good team, then I don't know what to tell you. Student school spirit is getting better because it's become a bigger part of recruitment and orientation and dorm life in the last few years. Change doesn't happen overnight.

Disengaged alums: If you aren't already a football fan before you come to college and you don't become a football fan in college, why would you come back and go to football games 5, 10, 15, 20 years later? Expecting alums who rarely (if ever) attended games while they were here to suddenly show up now simply isn't realistic. On the plus side, do what I've done: be the change you want. We all know alums who fit this category. Offer to buy them a ticket to a game as a way of catching up. I'm bringing one of these folks to ULL, two to Homecoming, and another to South Alabama. Reach out to these folks and bring 'em in!

Lazy administration: I've been critical of the lack of official outreach in the past, but the admin is taking steps in the right direction. For example, check out http://meangreenprid...t.edu/discounts and the other parts of the Mean Green Pride initiative. Also check out what micahgb and her group are doing; these are the kinds of smart moves that the administration can make that will help us build the community of Mean Green fans we want.

Denton: Of all the whipping posts, I have the least understanding for Denton bashing, probably because I grew up here, in a NTSU/UNT family, and I now live here and work here. Yes, Denton and UNT have had plenty of issues through the years, and both sides deserve some blame. The attitude of some here on GMG that the city government and every resident of Denton should be collectively kissing the boots of the university's athletic program is silly, equally as silly as the attitude of some here who will blame everything from to Darrell Dickey's freak out to Todd Dodge's defense on Denton. If you think Denton sucks, show me a similar community with a comparable situation who you think is the tits, then we can talk.

Frats: They'll come around. Trying to herd them or anyone else who would rather tailgate than come in for the game into the stadium is not good PR. The saying is "if you build it, they will come," not "force them into it while you build it." There ought to be room for all of us on game day, those of us who want to go in and yell for our home team, and those who want to stay outside and tailgate. Those who are tailgaters now will start coming inside when "it" gets "built"; running them off before that happens seems to me to be a luxury we can't afford.

Oh, and what CurveItAround wrote! GMG!

Edited September 28, 2012 by MeanGreenWithEnvy

[Cowtown]

What we really need is some of butters creamy goo.

Careful, this is how we end up replacing football with sarcastiball.

[forevereagle]

What we really need is some of butters creamy goo.

Maybe that's what you need, but it is NOT what I need.