The Libyian Situation

[KRAM1]

Just some random thinking about what is now developing in Libya. It does appear that the rebels are being beaten back by the government forces. I know it's not over as yet and may turn really ugly before it is, but I was pondering the lack of any real response by the West in this situation, and wondering what others may think of it. It seems to me the West is simply sitting back and allowing this to develop and providing the pro-government forces with all the time they need to put down the revolution. Sure, Libya is a non-player pretty much in the oil-rich Middle East, so that's not much of an issue for the West. But, here we have a nation's citizenry rising up in protest of a tyrant of a dictator, taking up arms in the hopes of overthrowing the dictatorship, and the collective West, led by the Unites States lack of any action, sits on its hands and talks. Is this an opportunity missed? Is it important that the United States and its allies support such movements? Will this be an opportunity lost? Or, is this a case where the US and its allies should do what it is...pretty much nothing?

The rebels have been offered amnesty if the lay down their arms. Does anyone really believe that they would be allowed to just "go home" and live peacefully with the same government still in place? Really? If so, I would love to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn. One can almost guarantee retaliation in one form or another...and probably a series of disappearances and sham trials for the leadership of the revolt and "simple" jail, murder and/or torture of the lesser participants.

While the US didn't help plan this revolt, is this somewhat akin to the Bay of Pigs disaster where the West simply backed off at the last minute and allowed all the invasion forces to be slaughtered on the Cuban beaches? Is standing by and doing nothing the proper thing to do in this case? I really am beginning to wonder about what the West is responsible for in this whole mess. I know the West cannot "bail out" revolts and intercede in every part of the globe with military force or with material for that matter, but should it simply stand by and watch the slaughter? Pretty big question. And, I know I am glad that I am not the one making the decision. But I do feel for the people of Libya who "caught the fire" of rebellion lit in the area and which was fostered by the citizens of Egypt, and who now have pretty much found themselves abandoned by the West (at this stage of the game anyway).

Thoughts? Seems to me the West tells folks "rise up, overthrow your dictatorial leadership, set up a more democratic form of government, embrace freedom" and we will support you, only to sit idly by when the opportunity comes to actually help. How will history judge the actions of the West? Don't know...I have no crystal ball. I only ask the question and ponder the answer. Thoughts?

[untbowler]

Just sitting back and watching, in a pickle for most, of course Libya harbors terrorists so US one would think would want a change in leaders, but we have found it is not always greener on the other side. Besides if we do throw out Gaddafi, I hope he has a one way ticket to Lockerbie, Scotland, I hear there are families who would like to meet him.

Edited March 15, 2011 by untbowler

[meangreendork]

There's also this:

WE CAN WIN THIS REVOLUTION BY OURSELVES! GO AWAY USA! F-U, EU!

followed by:

WE NEED A NO-FLY ZONE!

read as: we want a no fly zone only, only to follow with:

WE WANT A NO-FLY ZONE! WE WANT TACTICAL AIRSTRIKES!

which of course, is always a precursor to demands for ground forces, and then with the arrival of ground forces, there will probably be:

GO AWAY USA! F-U, EU!

It's a catch-22 for UN/NATO nations.

[eulesseagle]

Let the Arab League take care of this situation. Lybia has not attacked the United States, the E.U., or NATO.

The Arab League has airplanes, ships, and troops so let them defend a no fly zone, let them destroy all the air defense systems and missles. Let them accidently kill women and children and let them take the full brunt of critisim when something catastrophic happens. The United States has been on Al-Jazeera media too many times in the very senerios. These people are not the friends of the United States. They want our boys to spill their blood instead of there own blood...which makes us cheap mercenaries.

One can make the defense we are protecting world oil supplies and we need the oil. We got these natural resources that our government will not allow us to drill. The best sites were systematically designated as national lands which makes it "almost" impossible to drill. Release these lands. Makes you wonder who is being paid off.

Western Europe gets most of their fuel supplies from Russia.

Even the Europeans are backing away from this situation and probably for good reason. Lockerbe. The Europeans are going through their own transformation with the problematic Arabs in all their countries. There appears to be a rightward swing against the ubiquitious multiculturism. I believe we can all understand their cautiousness.

If the U.S. goes in it means another quagmire in a dominate arab country with the very problems that have plagued us in other arab countries. Dead American boys, bad press, and more U.S. cash....that we do not have....to rebuild, rearm and pay off despots.

[UNTflyer]

Let them figure out this whole civilization thing...

What I'm more concerned about is why the President hasn't done anything to lower oil prices. He must be in the pockets of big oil! Why hasn't he flipped The Magic Cheap Oil Switch yet?

Turn those machines back on! Turn those machines back on! Turn those machines back on!

[eulessismore]

Let the Arab League take care of this situation. Lybia has not attacked the United States, the E.U., or NATO.

The Arab League has airplanes, ships, and troops so let them defend a no fly zone, let them destroy all the air defense systems and missles. Let them accidently kill women and children and let them take the full brunt of critisim when something catastrophic happens. The United States has been on Al-Jazeera media too many times in the very senerios. These people are not the friends of the United States. They want our boys to spill their blood instead of there own blood...which makes us cheap mercenaries.

One can make the defense we are protecting world oil supplies and we need the oil. We got these natural resources that our government will not allow us to drill. The best sites were systematically designated as national lands which makes it "almost" impossible to drill. Release these lands. Makes you wonder who is being paid off.

Western Europe gets most of their fuel supplies from Russia.

Even the Europeans are backing away from this situation and probably for good reason. Lockerbe. The Europeans are going through their own transformation with the problematic Arabs in all their countries. There appears to be a rightward swing against the ubiquitious multiculturism. I believe we can all understand their cautiousness.

If the U.S. goes in it means another quagmire in a dominate arab country with the very problems that have plagued us in other arab countries. Dead American boys, bad press, and more U.S. cash....that we do not have....to rebuild, rearm and pay off despots.

+1, I'm agreeing with you on this one. The Arab League saying we should enforce a no-fly zone, at this point, is just saying, "let's you and him fight". Besides, we have another nightmare we're invited to, called Japan. I guess in Libya, an American boy might die a quicker death than someone with radiation sickness. Of course we want to help, but helping lately is getting much harder. The common thread is the search for energy.

[UNT90]

Let them figure out this whole civilization thing...

What I'm more concerned about is why the President hasn't done anything to lower oil prices. He must be in the pockets of big oil! Why hasn't he flipped The Magic Cheap Oil Switch yet?

Turn those machines back on! Turn those machines back on! Turn those machines back on!

We will figure this whole Lybia and Japan thing out. Well, right after a quick 18 holes, but not before we all make sure to do something much more important; fill out our brackets.

[Army of Dad]

Let the Arab League take care of this situation. Lybia has not attacked the United States, the E.U., or NATO.

The Arab League has airplanes, ships, and troops so let them defend a no fly zone, let them destroy all the air defense systems and missles. Let them accidently kill women and children and let them take the full brunt of critisim when something catastrophic happens. The United States has been on Al-Jazeera media too many times in the very senerios. These people are not the friends of the United States. They want our boys to spill their blood instead of there own blood...which makes us cheap mercenaries.

One can make the defense we are protecting world oil supplies and we need the oil. We got these natural resources that our government will not allow us to drill. The best sites were systematically designated as national lands which makes it "almost" impossible to drill. Release these lands. Makes you wonder who is being paid off.

Western Europe gets most of their fuel supplies from Russia.

Even the Europeans are backing away from this situation and probably for good reason. Lockerbe. The Europeans are going through their own transformation with the problematic Arabs in all their countries. There appears to be a rightward swing against the ubiquitious multiculturism. I believe we can all understand their cautiousness.

If the U.S. goes in it means another quagmire in a dominate arab country with the very problems that have plagued us in other arab countries. Dead American boys, bad press, and more U.S. cash....that we do not have....to rebuild, rearm and pay off despots.

While I agree with much of your post you should realize that Arab nations do not have the ability to project force very far away from their borders. Very few nations have that capacity and really none of them are Arab. Additionally, their pilots would be in for an actual fight as opposed to our guys having a turkey shoot. The only forces native to the region and capable of enforcing a no fly zone belong to the Israeli military and we all know how that would turn out.

[GrayEagle]

Let the Arab League take care of this situation. Lybia has not attacked the United States, the E.U., or NATO.

The Arab League has airplanes, ships, and troops so let them defend a no fly zone, let them destroy all the air defense systems and missles. Let them accidently kill women and children and let them take the full brunt of critisim when something catastrophic happens. The United States has been on Al-Jazeera media too many times in the very senerios. These people are not the friends of the United States. They want our boys to spill their blood instead of there own blood...which makes us cheap mercenaries.

One can make the defense we are protecting world oil supplies and we need the oil. We got these natural resources that our government will not allow us to drill. The best sites were systematically designated as national lands which makes it "almost" impossible to drill. Release these lands. Makes you wonder who is being paid off.

Western Europe gets most of their fuel supplies from Russia.

Even the Europeans are backing away from this situation and probably for good reason. Lockerbe. The Europeans are going through their own transformation with the problematic Arabs in all their countries. There appears to be a rightward swing against the ubiquitious multiculturism. I believe we can all understand their cautiousness.

If the U.S. goes in it means another quagmire in a dominate arab country with the very problems that have plagued us in other arab countries. Dead American boys, bad press, and more U.S. cash....that we do not have....to rebuild, rearm and pay off despots.

I think that's the right decision...so why doesn't our president make it? Let the world know that our stance is that we have no direct stake in Libya's problem but implore the Arab nations to help their own. Or say that we won't get involved unless there are extreme violation of human rights. Anything...but say something. Put the ball in someone else's court. Just saying that Gadahfi should be replaced is hardly anything official.

[Eagle1855]

We will figure this whole Lybia and Japan thing out. Well, right after a quick 18 holes, but not before we all make sure to do something much more important; fill out our brackets.

I like to think we have a president who can accomplish all of these things. I mean, my bracket took all of 10 minutes (but I mostly picked based on which mascots I thought were cutest) and a round of golf takes me about 5 hours (and about 140 strokes) so that leaves a whole hell of a lot of time to work on the rest of the country and world.

[UNT90]

I like to think we have a president who can accomplish all of these things. I mean, my bracket took all of 10 minutes (but I mostly picked based on which mascots I thought were cutest) and a round of golf takes me about 5 hours (and about 140 strokes) so that leaves a whole hell of a lot of time to work on the rest of the country and world.

So would I, but unfortunately that is not the standard that was set by the media with our last President. Just trying to follow the ever-changing rules. I guess they changed again? Please let me know when these changes happen, or should I just assume they will change yet again when the next republican is President?

[Eagle1855]

So would I, but unfortunately that is not the standard that was set by the media with our last President. Just trying to follow the ever-changing rules. I guess they changed again? Please let me know when these changes happen, or should I just assume they will change yet again when the next republican is President?

Hell if I know, I think both parties suck.

[UNT90]

Hell if I know, I think both parties suck.

Well, your just no fun.

[Coffee and TV]

So would I, but unfortunately that is not the standard that was set by the media with our last President. Just trying to follow the ever-changing rules. I guess they changed again? Please let me know when these changes happen, or should I just assume they will change yet again when the next republican is President?

If we have a supposed "liberal media", 1/5th of America wouldn't think that Obama is a Muslim. If we have a liberal media then 50% of Americans (last I checked) wouldn't think that Saddam was involved in the 9/11 attacks.

[UNT90]

If we have a supposed "liberal media", 1/5th of America wouldn't think that Obama is a Muslim. If we have a liberal media then 50% of Americans (last I checked) wouldn't think that Saddam was involved in the 9/11 attacks.

The issue is very specific. The last President was BBQed for playing golf while the troops were at war, so much so that he stopped playing completely. Pres. Obama does the EXACT same thing when we are still at war, the economy is in the crapper, and our friend Japan is facing a triple tragedy of unimaginable proportions. No consequences from an ever idolizing media.

Like I said, just let me know when the rules change again.

Oh, and thanks for coming out to play

[Censored by Laurie]

The issue is very specific. The last President was BBQed for playing golf while the troops were at war, so much so that he stopped playing completely. Pres. Obama does the EXACT same thing when we are still at war, the economy is in the crapper, and our friend Japan is facing a triple tragedy of unimaginable proportions. No consequences from an ever idolizing media.

Like I said, just let me know when the rules change again.

Oh, and thanks for coming out to play

Exactly. The guy is clearly getting a pass because he is a Kenyan Muslim without a birth certificate with terrorist sympathies who hates America and all she stands for and is covertly trying to form a Socialist Caliphate so he can proclaim himself Prophet.

Those effers get away with everything

[Eagle1855]

Exactly. The guy is clearly getting a pass because he is a Kenyan Muslim without a birth certificate with terrorist sympathies who hates America and all she stands for and is covertly trying to form a Socialist Caliphate so he can proclaim himself Prophet.

Those effers get away with everything

Why do you hate Freedom?

[UNT90]

Exactly. The guy is clearly getting a pass because he is a Kenyan Muslim without a birth certificate with terrorist sympathies who hates America and all she stands for and is covertly trying to form a Socialist Caliphate so he can proclaim himself Prophet.

Those effers get away with everything

This from a guy that gets his news from the Karl Marx Compound Daily? Great to know you are finally beginning to see the light.

[UNTflyer]

If we have a supposed "liberal media", 1/5th of America wouldn't think that Obama is a Muslim. If we have a liberal media then 50% of Americans (last I checked) wouldn't think that Saddam was involved in the 9/11 attacks.

Not true. The most recent poll I can find shows that only 31% believe that. That's about the same percentage who believe in astrology, the same percentage of meteorologists that believe in man-made global warming, an the same percentage who believe the Stimulus Plan has helped the economy.

[HoustonEagle]

Not true. The most recent poll I can find shows that only 31% believe that. That's about the same percentage who believe in astrology, the same percentage of meteorologists that believe in man-made global warming, an the same percentage who believe the Stimulus Plan has helped the economy.

Where did you find the stats on each of those categories? I would love to check it out. Thanks in advance.

[UNTflyer]

Where did you find the stats on each of those categories? I would love to check it out. Thanks in advance.

The Internet

[Censored by Laurie]

The Internet

I used this and am now never voting for Rick Santorum. Gross.

[Coffee and TV]

Not true. The most recent poll I can find shows that only 31% believe that.

Most recent as in long after Saddam was hanging from a noose. How about in the lead up or at the peak of the war?

[UNTflyer]

Most recent as in long after Saddam was hanging from a noose. How about in the lead up or at the peak of the war?

I'm guessing that far more than that still believe Pearl Harbor was an intentional sneak attack, and not a sad series of communication blunders.

Stop living in the past, my friend. We can make it a bright future!

[cwb]

The issue is very specific. The last President was BBQed for playing golf while the troops were at war, so much so that he stopped playing completely. Pres. Obama does the EXACT same thing when we are still at war, the economy is in the crapper, and our friend Japan is facing a triple tragedy of unimaginable proportions. No consequences from an ever idolizing media.

Like I said, just let me know when the rules change again.

Oh, and thanks for coming out to play

Was he BBQed or grilled? Because there is a big difference in the backyard world. Low and slow or open fire?