Just remember

[emmitt01]

It's illegal to win before year 3

[NT91]

Step back this year. If NT goes 4-8 in 2013 Mc would be gone.

[Green Dozer]

Step back this year. If NT goes 4-8 in 2013 Mc would be gone.

You gonna donate the million it will take to buy him out? He gets at least year 4 no matter what happens next year.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Green Dozer

[UNTBill]

You gonna donate the million it will take to buy him out? He gets at least year 4 no matter what happens next year.

Pass the collection plate. Im in.

[Green Dozer]

Pass the collection plate. Im in.

LOL. Ok, but the decision makers like the donuts he brings every morning!

[Dr. Seuss]

He signed a 5 year deal.. The only way we fire him after 3 years if has less than 3 wins next year. I dont think we can afford to Macs byout and pay another head coach.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Dr. Seuss

[MDH]

And you wonder why more of our students pay attention to Johnny Football and the UT QB competition than what plays out at Apogee on Saturdays.

[bjrichus]

Step back this year. If NT goes 4-8 in 2013 Mc would be gone.

SHOULD ... but will be kept for year four.

[GoMeanGreen1999]

You gonna donate the million it will take to buy him out? He gets at least year 4 no matter what happens next year.

5 Years

[GRN-WHT]

5 Years

At least, I'm afraid. By the time he's done, the season ticket and donor base will gone so the only people left for Mac to rah rah in front of will be RV's entourage.

[emmitt01]

You gonna donate the million it will take to buy him out? He gets at least year 4 no matter what happens next year.

You gonna donate the million it will take to buy him out? He gets at least year 4 no matter what happens next year.

So let me ask this. It's the general consensus that Dickey succeeded because of one good recruiting class and that he stopped winning because he stopped recruiting. He "left the cupboard bare." So we brought in Dodge. He didn't recruit well either as evidenced by his record...but we gave him FOUR years?! We all agree he didn't recruit worth a damn because we all agree that when he left he "left the cupboard bare." Oh, I forgot...we kept him because we couldn't afford his buyout. So then, with a "bare cupboard", we hired Mac. And now, when he has regressed in year two and there are no signs of recruiting (that thing that got Dickey and Dodge canned) improving significantly (who else has offered our commits?), we are again faced with a coach that we can't afford to buy out?

Why don't we just go find an up and coming assistant who is hungry and will work for cheap (now where could we find one of those? Our OC?). At least when they fail to produce we won't be held hostage.

Go ahead, -1 away. But don't delude yourself. If you weren't IN this abusive relationship you'd be yelling for the participants to get out of it.

[shaft]

Emmitt is over simplifying it.

DD got fired because he didn't get along with his boss, his boss's boss, the general booster crowd, didn't evovle his recruiting and play calling and kept bad assistants.

Dodge got fired because he hired bad assistants, an ran a system he couldn't get the D1 recruits for, and the went the JUCOs route to try to save his job.

The problem isn't have money to buyout coaches. The problem isn't having the money to avoid early season payday games.

[THOR]

damn it...i'm out of negatives....

[emmitt01]

Emmitt is over simplifying it.

DD got fired because he didn't get along with his boss, his boss's boss, the general booster crowd, didn't evovle his recruiting and play calling and kept bad assistants.

Dodge got fired because he hired bad assistants, an ran a system he couldn't get the D1 recruits for, and the went the JUCOs route to try to save his job.

The problem isn't have money to buyout coaches. The problem isn't having the money to avoid early season payday games.

Tell me then...since I've oversimplified it...what is the problem? I'm waiting on pins and needles to hear which excuse you see as the valid (but not oversimplified) one for close to a decade of mediocre. Just remember, it has to be exclusive to North Texas and has to explain how a brand new stadium, two coaches with long contracts paying higher than any before them and a new conference on the horizon have led to the EXACT SAME results (but don't oversimplify).

[GoMeanGreen1999]

Tell me then...since I've oversimplified it...what is the problem? I'm waiting on pins and needles to hear which excuse you see as the valid (but not oversimplified) one for close to a decade of mediocre. Just remember, it has to be exclusive to North Texas and has to explain how a brand new stadium, two coaches with long contracts paying higher than any before them and a new conference on the horizon have led to the EXACT SAME results (but don't oversimplify).

I hated to be too critical at the time of hire, but how is it that a brand new stadium and a higher than ever before salary in an area such as DFW coould only bring in a coach 29 games UNDER .500? Seems to me the problem may be the guy doing to hiring because there are not very many Universities, D1 or below that hire High School staffs to coach.

[cl_1_2008]

If you think Dodge left the cupboard bare, just wait until his players are gone. Y'Barbo, Fortenberry, A. Johnson, Feeley, Anyiam, Byrd, Chancellor, Teegarden, Miller, Prior, McCoy, Abbe, Cantly, Obi, Bellazin, Orr, Phillips, Wright, Jackson...

[gksmith]

Todd Dodge 2006-2010 (fired October 20, 2010)

Overall record: 6-37 .139

Conference record: 3-23 .115

As with any coach I am willing to give him one full recruiting cycle (4 years) to turn things around. You also have to look at the way the team is playing year to year. It just didn't look like there were many positives year to year with Dodge. With McCarney, I am seeing improved play from last year. I expect (as I am sure he does as well) to see improved play next year. Does that translate to a winning season? One can hope.

[untjim1995]

Emmitt is over simplifying it.

DD got fired because he didn't get along with his boss, his boss's boss, the general booster crowd, didn't evovle his recruiting and play calling and kept bad assistants.

Dodge got fired because he hired bad assistants, an ran a system he couldn't get the D1 recruits for, and the went the JUCOs route to try to save his job.

The problem isn't have money to buyout coaches. The problem isn't having the money to avoid early season payday games.

Dickey got fired because he didn't win enough games to make attendance better than 15k. HIs demeanor was poor, obviously, but if he had won more games in his last two years, he'd probably would have gotten at least two more years. Hell, he probably would still be here. No one outside of the diehards here on gmg.com ever cared about winning against SBC teams, while basically giving up in OOC games. Sure, he beat a mediocre Tech team once and beat an awful Baylor once during OOC games, and that bowl win over Cincy was a great win, but in the same breath, the attitude for the big $$$ games was just sad, and other OOC games were just pathetic. His simple gameplan was very effective against SBC teams, but it was easy to defeat if you had talent, which the rest of the SBC basically started getting by 2005.

Dodge seemed like the right guy at the time because of his success at Southlake Carroll and his tenure here before becoming a HC in high school. No one can believe it now, but back when he got hired, 99% of this board was onboard and very excited. The attendance bump we saw during his time was the most ironic of all, since his teams were so bad. Attendance at Fouts was definitely better, even if we won just a game or two each year. As he found out, getting those suburban rich kids here in Denton was a bad fit, just as bad as hiring his HS assistants here. Good guy (the anti-Dickey), but very Vic Trilli-like in performance.

To me, Coach Mac is light years better than either of these two, even if he does eventually get fired. His problem right now is talent--nothing less than that. He'll get two more years to turn it around, unless he pulls a Dodge Year and just wins 2 or less. Remember, Dodge won 2 games in Year 3 and got a 4th year. Dickey won 3 games in Year 3 and got a 4th year. We don't have the cash to buy anyone out--if we have to do that, we will get that unknown assistant that doesn't cost much, but that hasn't ever worked here yet. I suspect that Coach Mac knows all of this and that his recruiting will go heavy on JUCOs for the lines. To be honest, it might be the only way to improve recruiting, since its becoming obvious that getting ENOUGH major Texas HS talent here is just not that easy. His future here is dependent on having a competent QB and a better DLine. I truly believe that if Berglund can throw the football like most believe he could coming out of HS, this will change a lot for next year. I actually think next year will be a 6 win or better year--and I'm the guy who thought we would only win 3 games last year and around 4 or 5 this year, so I'm not exactly a homer. But I believe that Mac will see the fruits of his labor here, starting next year.

[untbowler]

It's illegal to win before year 3

Except at ASU (2 straight titles with 1st year College HC), ULL, WKU, NIU and the list goes on and on.

[outoftown]

We won't be able to buy out mac, since we will already have quite the tab running from having bought out Benford. At the rate he is going that will happen before the season ends. No way we buy out Mac (ok unless we go like 1-11).

[Coffee and TV]

Because a revolving coaching door is such an upgrade to a proven coach not getting us to a bowl in year 2. Please.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Because a revolving coaching door is such an upgrade to a proven coach not getting us to a bowl in year 2. Please.

Right. I think there's a line between the lack of production McCarney is getting VS the lack of production Benford is getting. I think trying to compare the two are like comparing apples and turds.

[outoftown]

Right. I think there's a line between the lack of production McCarney is getting VS the lack of production Benford is getting. I think trying to compare the two are like comparing apples and turds.

I was not trying to compare the two, but if we are firing Benford this season it WILL have repercussions on who else we can buy out should we feel the need.... I think we might not know what we have in McCarney because of 1 of 2 reasons: a) he is a middle of the road / stagnation coach or b ) because we have not to much experience with what a winner really looks like and a tendency to distrust things.

on the other hand half a season with Benford is enough for NT expertise to say with certainty that this will never go anywhere but down...NT fans know this because they have enough experience with loosing coaches to identify them pretty quickly.

Edited December 3, 2012 by outoftown

[GrayEagle]

I hated to be too critical at the time of hire, but how is it that a brand new stadium and a higher than ever before salary in an area such as DFW coould only bring in a coach 29 games UNDER .500? Seems to me the problem may be the guy doing to hiring because there are not very many Universities, D1 or below that hire High School staffs to coach.

While he wasn't my favorite, you omitted a plus or two about McCarney. How about an out-of-conference winning percentage of .644? How about 5 bowl appearances; winning two? How about beating cross-state rival Iowa four straight?

[TIgreen01]

My take on the 2 previous coaches is different than what I see here. DD certainly did not endear himself to RV or the fans, or some select Admin folks, but what did him in was truly our pathetic budget during his time. We constantly kept losing our best up and coming assistants (which is bound to happen) for fairly small wage increases, and I think this got under his skin and he got fed up that we'd never be able to keep up here. Also, don't underestimate how much losing Andrew Smith hurt. He would have bridged the gap once Scott Hall graduated and given either Meager or (his name escapes me now---the big, huge running QB that had grade issues) time to redshirt and develop.

Dodge coming in either scared off whatever long-time assistants we had, or he/RV cleaned house of long-time assistants. I have no idea which occurred as I've heard rumors both ways. This triggered us bringing in almost an entirely new staff, headlined by 2 HS coordinators. Obvioiusly Mendoza was further in-over-his-head than any coach we've witnessed here at UNT and his decimation of our defense proved too costly an error to overcome. Dodge's recruiting was certainly not as bad as some want to make it out to be on this board. Just look at who our best players are and who we now have in the NFL. The heavy JUCO count in his last class killed us mostly when our new coach didn't see the writing on the wall when he came in and signed almost all HS kids. We absolutely shouldn't have gone and signed 10 JUCOs to replace them, but it would have been smart to add a couple of defensive linemen and defensive backs to fill the void for 2012. Of course, the flip side to this is that DMac may have played the hunch that he'd definitely get at least 3 years and used 2012 to throw his young secondary to the wolves to prep them for 2013? No clue which is right.

Either way, we continue to see the same behavior/patterns emerge here at UNT simply because college athletics (esp. football) is an arms race fueled by big donors -- Donors that we currently lack. We spent years with budgets that were middle of the pack at best in the Sun Belt (the poorest D1a conference in the nation). We've mostly gotten what we've paid for. With our budget, we had to gamble and missed. I do think that our recent budget increase absolutely helped with McCarney and the staff he's been able to put together. We doubled our coaching salaries and I think that the results are obvious--not joking here. The football team is better coached, top to bottom than they have been in years. Whether or not that translates directly to Ws remains to be seen...