CUSA to Invite Temple and FIU?

[Harry]

C-USA and the Mountain West reached an agreement in October to form an alliance of their football-playing schools, but the two leagues have since advanced discussions to the point that they're now talking about merging the two leagues in all sports.

Discussions among the leagues' power brokers have also included evaluating the possibility of inviting Temple and Florida International, according to a source familiar with the talks.

Such a plan would likely place Memphis in a division filled with mostly familiar members that remain from C-USA. The C-USA/MWC alliance -- or full merger, if it gets to that -- would be a far-flung affair with teams in five time zones.

Read More: http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/jan/03/u-of-m-expansion-door-may-not-be-closed/

CUSA Board Discussion:

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=546216

[wardly]

makes sense.if UTEP moves to MWC, which appears likely, then CUSA is down to 8, and puts MWC at 9 football playing programs. if CUSA adds both Temple and FIU to get to 10,[ ECU and Marshall are pushing hard for eastern expansion],then MWC has a slot open. it could be between SHSU and Utah State, but both bring little to the table. if Temple stays put, then CUSA adds FIU and both congerences have 9 programs, with a combined footprint from California to Florida.i really don't know if UNT or UTSA are in play because of their markets or not.

[Mo Green]

Harry et al, we personally saw their crowd at their first football game- scarey. Now if we are interested in cusa now looking at who they are looking at, would this move be a lateral move taking place for us if we are wanting into the conference? Their basketball crowds are less than stellar too.

[DeepGreen]

makes sense.if UTEP moves to MWC, which appears likely, then CUSA is down to 8, and puts MWC at 9 football playing programs. if CUSA adds both Temple and FIU to get to 10,[ ECU and Marshall are pushing hard for eastern expansion],then MWC has a slot open. it could be between SHSU and Utah State, but both bring little to the table. if Temple stays put, then CUSA adds FIU and both congerences have 9 programs, with a combined footprint from California to Florida.i really don't know if UNT or UTSA are in play because of their markets or not.

I think you meant SJSU (San Jose State).

[untjim1995]

I think if a western slot opens up, the folks in Logan, Utah are going to get it. There is no presence in that state anymore and the Mountain Network needs that state. I doubt San Jose State will get anymore consideration than we do.

The hardest thing to accept about this all to me is that absolutely no one in college football above our level thinks we bring anything to their conference. Location, enrollment, alumni size, improved results, great facilities, etc...I guess it means nothing to CUSA or the MWC folks. The real question here is WHY NOT? Why can't we get anyone to see this all and say that we are a school that should be added? Is it just because of football's poor record during the latter Dickey years and the Dodge era? Because if it is, that seems amazingly short-sighted. As a matter of fact, I don't buy that as an excuse. Anyone with half a brain could look at the attendance bump we have enjoyed since Dodge came here and now with Coach Mac and the new stadium and see that if we got to play teams from a better-known league that we could draw even better. I just don't get it. I will say it again, but the more I look at our situation, the more the reality sets in with me that Apogee Stadium probably saved our football program, but it won't save us from staying at this level of football, whether that continues as FBS in the future or not.

[Green Mean]

I think if a western slot opens up, the folks in Logan, Utah are going to get it. There is no presence in that state anymore and the Mountain Network needs that state. I doubt San Jose State will get anymore consideration than we do.

The hardest thing to accept about this all to me is that absolutely no one in college football above our level thinks we bring anything to their conference. Location, enrollment, alumni size, improved results, great facilities, etc...I guess it means nothing to CUSA or the MWC folks. The real question here is WHY NOT? Why can't we get anyone to see this all and say that we are a school that should be added? Is it just because of football's poor record during the latter Dickey years and the Dodge era? Because if it is, that seems amazingly short-sighted. As a matter of fact, I don't buy that as an excuse. Anyone with half a brain could look at the attendance bump we have enjoyed since Dodge came here and now with Coach Mac and the new stadium and see that if we got to play teams from a better-known league that we could draw even better. I just don't get it. I will say it again, but the more I look at our situation, the more the reality sets in with me that Apogee Stadium probably saved our football program, but it won't save us from staying at this level of football, whether that continues as FBS in the future or not.

The only way to combat this is to keep doing what we're doing and making sure we have a hell of a product on the football field and basketball court. At some point something's gotta give and we won't be ignored.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Green Mean

[untjim1995]

The only way to combat this is to keep doing what we're doing and making sure we have a hell of a product on the football field and basketball court. At some point something's gotta give and we won't be ignored.

I tend to agree, but then I think about how long that takes and how quickly things move in college athletics and it just gets harder and harder to see a time in the future where we are playing a conference game against anyone outside of the SBC and how little those games draw in attendance. I tried to get 4 or 5 friends and family to go with me to the Western Kentucky game earlier this year. All said no because they had no interest in spending time and money to go watch us play the Hilltoppers. When we played Houston and Indiana, it was a different story.

[UNTLifer]

I just don't see anything moving until the Big XII is finalizes who they want in their conference.

[GrayEagle]

I think you meant SJSU (San Jose State).

No, he could have meant Sam Houston State University. Everyone is passing us by.

[UNTFan23]

The time period of such suckage between 2005 and 2010 continues to hold us back on moving to a better conference. Had our recruiting not fallen off a cliff we would have at least remained competitive in the conference instead of becoming one of the worst programs in FBS for more than half a decade.

Edited January 6, 2012 by UNTFan23

[TIgreen01]

I just don't see anything moving until the Big XII is finalizes who they want in their conference.

...and the Big 12 awaits word on what will become of the BCS...

Still, if CUSA takes FIU....then F'em. Not that any one school props UP the Sun Belt, but the F_U's---by name alone, drag down the perception of this conference (at least within DFW). Seriously, worst college/university names ever. It's impossible to take them seriously.

[buff64]

No, he could have meant Sam Houston State University. Everyone is passing us by.

Anyone notice that Incarnate Word ( San Antonio ) has announced they are moving to DI. Will they join UTSA or join the Southland ? Will they pass us by ?

[Stix]

Anyone notice that Incarnate Word ( San Antonio ) has announced they are moving to DI. Will they join UTSA or join the Southland ? Will they pass us by ?

Don't know if anyone had previously posted this, but Houston Baptist is starting a football team and joining the Southland.

Houston Chronicle - HBU accepts invitation to join Southland Conference

I guess the Southland had to reload somehow.

[shaft]

m it could be between SHSU and Utah State,

SHSU? Did you just spell it San Hose State University?

[GrayEagle]

I think if a western slot opens up, the folks in Logan, Utah are going to get it. There is no presence in that state anymore and the Mountain Network needs that state. I doubt San Jose State will get anymore consideration than we do.

The hardest thing to accept about this all to me is that absolutely no one in college football above our level thinks we bring anything to their conference. Location, enrollment, alumni size, improved results, great facilities, etc...I guess it means nothing to CUSA or the MWC folks. The real question here is WHY NOT? Why can't we get anyone to see this all and say that we are a school that should be added? Is it just because of football's poor record during the latter Dickey years and the Dodge era? Because if it is, that seems amazingly short-sighted. As a matter of fact, I don't buy that as an excuse. Anyone with half a brain could look at the attendance bump we have enjoyed since Dodge came here and now with Coach Mac and the new stadium and see that if we got to play teams from a better-known league that we could draw even better. I just don't get it. I will say it again, but the more I look at our situation, the more the reality sets in with me that Apogee Stadium probably saved our football program, but it won't save us from staying at this level of football, whether that continues as FBS in the future or not.

I have a couple of points of disagreement before I start liking your thoughts about the program.

First, I can't believe that Utah State should be a consideration unless the MWC goes to twelve teams. Over the last ten years their record has been worse than ours. Their all-time average of five lists is 92. By comparison we are 82 and San Jose State is 86. We have more than 2/3 of the FBS student population of a market that is more than 2-1/2 times larger than the Salt Lake City market. On the other hand, Utah State is about 1/6 of the SLC FBS student population. Utah State's attendance has been more abysmal than ours. Their stadium only seats 25,500. Their seven wins this past year was their first time since '93. They have good academics and basketball and few other selling points. Cap that with the fact that if the MWC really wanted them they could already have done so.

The most disturbing statement, however, is in bold above. Where are you getting your information? Only the conference office and the institutions themselves can be reliable sources of expansion information. Most others are probably less valid than yours. A sports writer is usually opinionated and a poor source for trustworthy facts regarding expansion. A blogger is even worse.

I firmly believe that Lane Rawlins is the best promoter that we could possibly have. I think that the seeds have been planted and will bear fruit. I trust the team that will present our case and we will not have adversaries, facilities and an unsupportive administration dragging us down this time. Plus we have a stadium to pay for so we need a conference where teams are better known to our students and alumni for an easier sell.

This is strictly my opinion. I've done hours of number-crunching and those results put us in the lead in more categories than any other contender except one. We have another advantage in location (we could go to either conference if separated or be in the center if combined). Also, remember it's not over until the Big XII, the Big East, the Mountain West and Conference USA determine the size of their conferences. Even then, the ACC and the SEC may cause other ripples.

Edited January 8, 2012 by GrayEagle

[shaft]

I'm not buying Temple & FIU.

1. No other media outlet has picked up the story. A few blogs have linked to the original article, but no one else is confirming, including the Philly & Miami press.

2. It doesn't make sense the merger as it stands is 17 football teams, 16 all sports. 19 football teams doesn't make sense.

I'm not buying Utah State or San Jose State (or as they are known, San Hose State)

1. The MWC had their shot to add USU & SJSU and passed. Rumor was they liked USU, but didn't want SJSU for the 12. And the truth was they didn't need those team.

2. The "western" merger options don't bring a media market. The merger is about increasing conference profile, not just assembling everyone who's left out of the BCS.

3. Neither of these schools are going to boost the conference's strength of schedule or general perception.

4. If they are going with two 9 team divisions it makes more sense to move UTEP to the western division that elevate a competitor in the west.

5. I don't think the merger wants to kill the WAC.

The merged league would consist of: East Carolina, Marshall, Memphis, Rice, Southern Miss, Tulane, Tulsa, UAB and UTEP from C-USA and Air Force, Colorado State, New Mexico, UNLV and Wyoming from the Mountain West along with new members Fresno State, Hawaii and Nevada.

I think it makes more sense to go to an all sports league, move UTEP to the west, and add either UNT or LA Tech.

[rcade]

Anyone with half a brain could look at the attendance bump we have enjoyed since Dodge came here and now with Coach Mac and the new stadium and see that if we got to play teams from a better-known league that we could draw even better.

You're putting the cart before the horse. UNT has to impress people with its fan attendance in the Sun Belt. No conference is going to add UNT on the hope that attendance will be better in a better conference.

[Green Mean]

I can see Temple...they'd be a great addition because they'd be adding the Philadelphia market and it is a school that seems to have a lot of school pride and it's big. They have to add a Florida team after UCF bolted so would make sense. I can see this happening.

[UNTLifer]

Everybody talks about record and attendance. If that was the case, SMU would have never been invited to CUSA. This isn't a shot a SMU, but the truth. Also, they would have never been invited to The Big East if attendance were a leading factor, especially considering there hasn't been a noticeable jump since Jones arrived and improved their performance.

GrayEagle, great post.

[rcade]

Everybody talks about record and attendance. If that was the case, SMU would have never been invited to CUSA.

When SMU was invited into the WAC and then CUSA, it had 78 years of affiliation to the Southwest Conference burnishing its credentials. It also had TCU, Rice and Houston in its corner because of their past conference relationships and geographic proximity.

UNT, for many sad reasons, has none of that. So we're required to prove more if we want to move up. We proved we could get a stadium built. Now we must prove we can fill it in the Belt.

[GrayEagle]

You're putting the cart before the horse. UNT has to impress people with its fan attendance in the Sun Belt. No conference is going to add UNT on the hope that attendance will be better in a better conference.

I'm disappointed in our attendance for Sun Belt games but the poster had a point that we do draw better against known teams. Baylor, SMU, TCU, Army, Navy, Houston, Rice, Tulsa, et al all have drawn more than 20,000 whereas none of the current SBC members have drawn that many that I can recall. Just this past year Houston and Indiana drew more than 20K while the best conference turnout was less than 18,000 (ULM).

It seems that there is less importance placed on attendance per se than the ability to draw a TV audience. SMU would not have been chosen for the Big East if attendance were a major factor. Most of their "attendance" increase was tickets purchased but not used.

Edited January 8, 2012 by GrayEagle

[UNTLifer]

When SMU was invited into the WAC and then CUSA, it had 78 years of affiliation to the Southwest Conference burnishing its credentials. It also had TCU, Rice and Houston in its corner because of their past conference relationships and geographic proximity.

UNT, for many sad reasons, has none of that. So we're required to prove more if we want to move up. We proved we could get a stadium built. Now we must prove we can fill it in the Belt.

Your previous point was that we didn't have the attendance to warrant a move up. My counter is that SMU, and for that matter FIU and Temple if they are picked, didn't/don't have the fan support to deserve a move. Yes, SMU did have years in the SWC and allies in a few schools, but that wasn't your point. They also had the death penalty.

I just don't think attendance is that big of a deal when you see some of the moves being made. ECU would have been snapped up a while back if attendance was a leading criteria.

[Dr. Seuss]

Your previous point was that we didn't have the attendance to warrant a move up. My counter is that SMU, and for that matter FIU and Temple if they are picked, didn't/don't have the fan support to deserve a move. Yes, SMU did have years in the SWC and allies in a few schools, but that wasn't your point. They also had the death penalty.

I just don't think attendance is that big of a deal when you see some of the moves being made. ECU would have been snapped up a while back if attendance was a leading criteria.

Really bringing up the death penalty, that was 25 years ago... We all know you hate SMU but you keep on saying the same things over and over. Who cares how they count there attendence, thats not the reason why they are upgrading conferences... THEY WIN FOOTBALL GAMES and more are national recognized than a lot of other schools.

The way we will upgrade to a better conference is by winning football games... If we dont win games we wont move.. You dont get a promotion by doing poorly...

[Dr. Seuss]

I think if a western slot opens up, the folks in Logan, Utah are going to get it. There is no presence in that state anymore and the Mountain Network needs that state. I doubt San Jose State will get anymore consideration than we do.

The hardest thing to accept about this all to me is that absolutely no one in college football above our level thinks we bring anything to their conference. Location, enrollment, alumni size, improved results, great facilities, etc...I guess it means nothing to CUSA or the MWC folks. The real question here is WHY NOT? Why can't we get anyone to see this all and say that we are a school that should be added? Is it just because of football's poor record during the latter Dickey years and the Dodge era? Because if it is, that seems amazingly short-sighted. As a matter of fact, I don't buy that as an excuse. Anyone with half a brain could look at the attendance bump we have enjoyed since Dodge came here and now with Coach Mac and the new stadium and see that if we got to play teams from a better-known league that we could draw even better. I just don't get it. I will say it again, but the more I look at our situation, the more the reality sets in with me that Apogee Stadium probably saved our football program, but it won't save us from staying at this level of football, whether that continues as FBS in the future or not.

I think youre looking at it the wrong way, its easy to say that from the inside looking out.. but look at it from the outside looking in..

The first thing people say about Unt is who??, no one nationally knows who we are (-1)..

How many football games have you won in the past 5 years, dont even wanna say (-1)

Does Unt have any media coverage outside the radio (-1)

How many bowl games have yall won (-1)

Arnt yall called NTSU not Unt... (-1)

How well does Unt travel to other games... i cant answer that one bc ive only been to a couple

Yes, Unt has made great strides in making us more marketable but we are not where we need to be... Perception is reality and in reality we are a nobody. In order to be a somebody you have to do everything, you dont get rewarded for doing 50% of the work

Edited January 9, 2012 by Dr. Seuss

[UNTFan23]

I think youre looking at it the wrong way, its easy to say that from the inside looking out.. but look at it from the outside looking in..

The first thing people say about Unt is who??, no one nationally knows who we are (-1)..

How many football games have you won in the past 5 years, dont even wanna say (-1)

Does Unt have any media coverage outside the radio (-1)

How many bowl games have yall won (-1)

Arnt yall called NTSU not Unt... (-1)

How well does Unt travel to other games... i cant answer that one bc ive only been to a couple

Yes, Unt has made great strides in making us more marketable but we are not where we need to be... Perception is reality and in reality we are a nobody. In order to be a somebody you have to do everything, you dont get rewarded for doing 50% of the work

If perception is reality then FIU has no shot at moving up into a better conference as they really haven't done much better than UNT in the Sun Belt in terms of bowl wins, travel, and media coverage. The only thing in FIU's favor is they have had more recent football success than UNT.