Big 12: It's Ou

SilverEagle · December 1, 2008

Here's a little different angle that's neither pro-Texas nor pro-OU:
Why should any school in a BCS conference be allowed to complain when the BCS does whatever it does year in and year out?
All of those conferences and their schools have agreed to be willing participants in a scheme that allows them the vast majority of the bowl money. Even the teams in their conferences get more money not going to bowl games than non-BCS conference school who do go to bowl games!
So, does any member of the BCS really have a right to complain? Think about it, seriously. You 've got a system where two undefeated, non-BCS schools this year will make less bowl money than Baylor and Iowa State. Is that right?
So, whether it be Bob Stoops or Mack Brown or Urban Meyer or Pete Carroll or whomever eventually perceives themselves to be "screwed" by the BCS system, shouldn't they all just shut the hell up. After all it was their conferences and presidents who built the monster and fed it. So, if they get bit in the butt, so be it.
Someone find me a quote somewhere by Deloss Dodds saying the Big 12 system for a three way tie wasn't fair before this season. You won't find any such complaint by anyone at Texas about their conference rules and the BCS because they only cry when they system, already tilted in their favor, doesn't come out the way they want it to.
Washington, who will finish the season without a win will make more bowl money by not going to a bowl but being in a BCS conference than undefeated non-BCSers Ball State and Boise State.
Screw all BCS coaches, athletic directors, and president who cry when the deal doesn't turn out their way. They get plenty just for being in the "chosen one" conferences. The rest of us struggle along.

Wonderful post! :clapping:

As I'm fond of saying in circumstances like this "If you're looking for sympathy, let me direct you to the dictionary. It's located somewhere between shit and syphilis"

Green Dozer · December 1, 2008

With all that money????
Rick

Rick, at least their alumni donate, we have no room to laugh when when most of our alumni don't have the pride to donate anything. Look where all the money from our alumni has got us, now that's funny. At least TX has a post season to look forward to every year.

gksmith · December 1, 2008

Thanks Long Jim. There was that question on what other BCS conferences do for tie breakers.

Regardless of who went, one of them was going to get screwed. Both Texas and OU had great seasons. Putting up over 50/game by OU got them the edge.

It wasn't even the human factor that gave OU the edge. It was the computers. I heard on ESPN that Texas still had the advantage in all the human polls. You throw in the fuzzy math and OU wins.

FirefightnRick · December 2, 2008

Rick, at least their alumni donate, we have no room to laugh when when most of our alumni don't have the pride to donate anything. Look where all the money from our alumni has got us, now that's funny. At least TX has a post season to look forward to every year.

North Texas, and Boise State, and Arkansas State and TCU and Southern Miss and Utah and Troy aren't buying up canned-hunt, bowl eligiblity games and making a mockery of college football like Texas and Ohio State are. So when those schools fail, I laugh my ass off, especially like back in 2002 when Dave Campbell's credited NT with doing the most with the least, then in another paragraph in the same story qoutes Mack Brown in saying his multigazillion dollar budget "Isn't enough"? Then a year or two later he's literally crying to the media because he felt his team was going to be left out of the Championship game. That's funny! As TFLF has pointed out, it's their bed they made, let them lay in it. With all that money and support they have at their fingertips I'm willing to bet Mack Brown did all he could last Thursday night to hold back the tears........again, and keep from pandering to the media.

On a side note, I'm with Mike Leach on the tie breaker. Leave it up to graduation rates and we wouldn't have this problem. It would be Tech vs Mizzou.

Rick

Green Dozer · December 2, 2008

North Texas, and Boise State, and Arkansas State and TCU and Southern Miss and Utah and Troy aren't buying up canned-hunt, bowl eligiblity games and making a mockery of college football like Texas and Ohio State are. So when those schools fail, I laugh my ass off, especially like back in 2002 when Dave Campbell's credited NT with doing the most with the least, then in another paragraph in the same story qoutes Mack Brown in saying his multigazillion dollar budget "Isn't enough"? Then a year or two later he's literally crying to the media because he felt his team was going to be left out of the Championship game. That's funny! As TFLF has pointed out, it's their bed they made, let them lay in it. With all that money and support they have at their fingertips I'm willing to bet Mack Brown did all he could last Thursday night to hold back the tears........again, and keep from pandering to the media.
On a side note, I'm with Mike Leach on the tie breaker. Leave it up to graduation rates and we wouldn't have this problem. It would be Tech vs Mizzou.
Rick

No, it's still not funny. Just shows jealousy because we throw pennies at this thing and call it a Div. 1 program. Then, we blame coach after coach for our problems. Well, I would trade something else to cry about besides what we cry over most seasons.

Green Lantern · December 2, 2008

No, it's still not funny. Just shows jealousy because we throw pennies at this thing and call it a Div. 1 program. Then, we blame coach after coach for our problems. Well, I would trade something else to cry about besides what we cry over most seasons.

No, it is funny. The "haves" in division 1 football bitching about the system that they created to keep the wealth within the hands of the chosen few is hilarious. Hearing Pete Carroll complain about how USC is being mistreated by the BCS is humorous and sickening at the same time. Watching UT, OU, & Tech have their pitiful pissing match about who "has the right" to represent the Big 12 South in the championship game is entertainment of the highest order. Having 119 division 1 teams with over half of those having no shot (no matter how remote) to play for a National Championship is a joke. Utah, Boise State, and Ball State should all be furious about the current circumstances. Not that it's going to change anything.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Green Lantern

Green Mean · December 2, 2008

I would love for North Texas to be slick, dirty, and spending pompous arrogant whores than be little ol cant seem to do anything right North Texas.

Green Dozer · December 2, 2008

No, it is funny. The "haves" in division 1 football bitching about the system that they created to keep the wealth within the hands of the chosen few is hilarious. Hearing Pete Carol complain about how USC is being mistreated by the BCS is humorous and sickening at the same time. Watching UT, OU, & Tech have their pitiful pissing match about who "has the right" to represent the Big 12 South in the championship game is entertainment of the highest order. Having 119 division 1 teams with over half of those having no shot (no matter how remote) to play for a National Championship is a joke. Utah, Boise State, and Ball State should all be furious about the current circumstances. Not that it's going to change anything.

Green Lantern,

I see your point, and it is valid...but at least they are being talked about, and the TX/OU rivalry just went past the boiling point for several years to come. Simple, the "haves" decided years ago to make a commitment to their football programs, while our alumnae sat on their asses. Thats right, not the adm because the alumnae should have stood up and said we want better. Oh, its better, but we have a long way to go. Even when we won the 4 conference championships, the only people who really cared were those of us in the stands. If you went to any sports bar in Dallas, you would have been hard pressed to find 3 hardcore sports fans who knew what UNT had done. And by the way, I would love to be Boise State or Ball State and have something like you mention to be furious about. We can't seem to even get to where we can get in the "have something to bitch about" part of the BCS. No, we get to play in a bowl that has a crowd of a state high school playoff. Yea, its just great to be in this position. Most seasons we have plenty of time to laugh and cry. But neither of our views is going to change anything, we both agree on that.

untjim1995 · December 3, 2008

No, it is funny. The "haves" in division 1 football bitching about the system that they created to keep the wealth within the hands of the chosen few is hilarious. Hearing Pete Carroll complain about how USC is being mistreated by the BCS is humorous and sickening at the same time. Watching UT, OU, & Tech have their pitiful pissing match about who "has the right" to represent the Big 12 South in the championship game is entertainment of the highest order. Having 119 division 1 teams with over half of those having no shot (no matter how remote) to play for a National Championship is a joke. Utah, Boise State, and Ball State should all be furious about the current circumstances. Not that it's going to change anything.

Sometimes, I wonder why the non-AQ-BCS schools don't break away from this mess and just create a playoff system for themsleves. Make it a 16 team deal with home games the first two weeks and then use bowl games for the semifinals and final. I know that the money that we all get from the BCS system would go away if we pulled out--and that might be why this could never happen--but it seems that home games and the term playoff would create such a frenzy that the the non-AQ-BCS leagues might actually garner some major attention. There is a big faction of folks out there that want a playoff--this could lead to just that for the entire NCAA. Even if it didn't, at least the SBC, MAC, WAC, CUSA, and the MWC could get some major attention for the entire month of December as they would own the college football fandom for a full month basically. Again, this may not be feasible, but imagine for a second if the top 16 non-AQ-BCS schools did this. You would have TCU, BYU, Utah, Boise State, Ball State, Troy, Tulsa, Houston, Rice, Arkansas State, Central Michigan, Fresno State, Buffalo, Colorado State, Nevada, and Hawaii as participants. That would be a lot of fun to watch the "tournament" play out. Compare a game between Boise and BYU, for example, with the Insight Bowl between Kansas and Minnesota. There would be so much more attention paid to the non-bowl game, it wouldn't even be funny. Heck, even put this game up against a good bowl game, like the Holiday bowl, which might be Tech versus Oregon State. Again, no comparison. Don't know if this could ever happen, but it would be very interesting if it was feasible.

Edited December 3, 2008 by untjim1995

CMJ · December 3, 2008

Sometimes, I wonder why the non-AQ-BCS schools don't break away from this mess and just create a playoff system for themsleves. Make it a 16 team deal with home games the first two weeks and then use bowl games for the semifinals and final. I know that the money that we all get from the BCS system would go away if we pulled out--and that might be why this could never happen--but it seems that home games and the term playoff would create such a frenzy that the the non-AQ-BCS leagues might actually garner some major attention. There is a big faction of folks out there that want a playoff--this could lead to just that for the entire NCAA. Even if it didn't, at least the SBC, MAC, WAC, CUSA, and the MWC could get some major attention for the entire month of December as they would own the college football fandom for a full month basically. Again, this may not be feasible, but imagine for a second if the top 16 non-AQ-BCS schools did this. You would have TCU, BYU, Utah, Boise State, Ball State, Troy, Tulsa, Houston, Rice, Arkansas State, Central Michigan, Fresno State, Buffalo, Colorado State, Nevada, and Hawaii as participants. That would be a lot of fun to watch the "tournament" play out. Compare a game between Boise and BYU, for example, with the Insight Bowl between Kansas and Minnesota. There would be so much more attention paid to the non-bowl game, it wouldn't even be funny. Heck, even put this game up against a good bowl game, like the Holiday bowl, which might be Tech versus Oregon State. Again, no comparison. Don't know if this could ever happen, but it would be very interesting if it was feasible.

Pretty much totally disagree. There would be very little interest nationally until perhaps the finals. Until the semi-final round I wouldn't expect much more TV coverage than what the 1AA finals have. Nationally people watch Utah/Boise State/etc to see if they can knock off Goliath. There wouldn't be as much interest....not by a long shot....to see alot of David's playing each other.

Green Lantern · December 3, 2008

Sometimes, I wonder why the non-AQ-BCS schools don't break away from this mess and just create a playoff system for themsleves. Make it a 16 team deal with home games the first two weeks and then use bowl games for the semifinals and final. I know that the money that we all get from the BCS system would go away if we pulled out--and that might be why this could never happen--but it seems that home games and the term playoff would create such a frenzy that the the non-AQ-BCS leagues might actually garner some major attention. There is a big faction of folks out there that want a playoff--this could lead to just that for the entire NCAA. Even if it didn't, at least the SBC, MAC, WAC, CUSA, and the MWC could get some major attention for the entire month of December as they would own the college football fandom for a full month basically. Again, this may not be feasible, but imagine for a second if the top 16 non-AQ-BCS schools did this. You would have TCU, BYU, Utah, Boise State, Ball State, Troy, Tulsa, Houston, Rice, Arkansas State, Central Michigan, Fresno State, Buffalo, Colorado State, Nevada, and Hawaii as participants. That would be a lot of fun to watch the "tournament" play out. Compare a game between Boise and BYU, for example, with the Insight Bowl between Kansas and Minnesota. There would be so much more attention paid to the non-bowl game, it wouldn't even be funny. Heck, even put this game up against a good bowl game, like the Holiday bowl, which might be Tech versus Oregon State. Again, no comparison. Don't know if this could ever happen, but it would be very interesting if it was feasible.

I want to be clear that I'm not advocating moving away from the highest level of college football, rather promoting change within the current system. Currently it is a sham. It is the only college sport where a great number of schools playing in Division 1 realistically have no shot at winning the national title. Realistically, do I think that Utah, Boise, of Ball State would win a 16 team playoff tournament? Probably not, but they do deserve a chance. No one can say that they would definitely be beaten (no one managed to do it in the regular season, so there is no definitive proof). I can say with certainty that they deserve a chance. It would also eliminate all of the bitching between UT, OU, Tech, USC, Florida ect. The same crap that comes up every year around this time. It would be settled on the field, like every other major college sport. Every team (all 119) that compete within FBS should have a chance (no matter how remote) to win a national title. Otherwise, what is the point really?

The system does not reward programs that do more with less, in fact, it penalizes them.

I also agree with CMJ. I don't think that forming a BSC non-AQ tournament would draw enough attention nationally. I just want some semblence of fair play in the current system, not the crappy bone they've thrown to the BCS Non-AQ schools currently. It's a joke.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Green Lantern

untjim1995 · December 3, 2008

Pretty much totally disagree. There would be very little interest nationally until perhaps the finals. Until the semi-final round I wouldn't expect much more TV coverage than what the 1AA finals have. Nationally people watch Utah/Boise State/etc to see if they can knock off Goliath. There wouldn't be as much interest....not by a long shot....to see alot of David's playing each other.

You don't think a Ball State--BYU semifinal game wouldn't garner interest at all? I disagree completely. A while back, there was a report done about the media's views on non-AQ-BCS schools. Basically, they didn't care about them, nor followed them very closely. At this point, you are probably thinking that this makes your point, but in fact, if a playoff got put into place, there is no way that the national media could ignore these conferences because it would be the only game going on in early and mid-December. The ESPN networks would jump at the chance to fill air time with these games. I am just saying that this could gain so much popularity amongst media-types that the pressure to make a BCS playoff become a reality could really heat up.

Keep in mind, that if we keep the system we have, there is basically no chance at any of our schools getting to say that they are national champs. The Boise State victory over Oklahoma was awesome and it put Boise on the map, so to speak, but I still think those kids at Boise deserve a chance to win a natinoal championship after the season they have had. They can always play OU or USC in non-conference and you still get David vs. Goliath. I just believe that any form of an FBS playoff would garner a lot more attention for the non-AQ BCS than what we have now.

CMJ · December 3, 2008

You don't think a Ball State--BYU semifinal game wouldn't garner interest at all? I disagree completely. A while back, there was a report done about the media's views on non-AQ-BCS schools. Basically, they didn't care about them, nor followed them very closely. At this point, you are probably thinking that this makes your point, but in fact, if a playoff got put into place, there is no way that the national media could ignore these conferences because it would be the only game going on in early and mid-December. The ESPN networks would jump at the chance to fill air time with these games. I am just saying that this could gain so much popularity amongst media-types that the pressure to make a BCS playoff become a reality could really heat up.
Keep in mind, that if we keep the system we have, there is basically no chance at any of our schools getting to say that they are national champs. The Boise State victory over Oklahoma was awesome and it put Boise on the map, so to speak, but I still think those kids at Boise deserve a chance to win a natinoal championship after the season they have had. They can always play OU or USC in non-conference and you still get David vs. Goliath. I just believe that any form of an FBS playoff would garner a lot more attention for the non-AQ BCS than what we have now.

More to the point of what I believe would be something like this. If we "broke off" and started doing our own thing - the Big Boys would feel free to ignore us totally. In a few years(say 8-10) we would become in essence...the new 1AA. Sure people might tune in for the Finals of our tournament, but that'd be about it.

And then...since they wouldn't have to share any of the money with us, the Power 6 leagues would form their own playoff, and we would have no seat at the table at all.

untjim1995 · December 3, 2008

More to the point of what I believe would be something like this. If we "broke off" and started doing our own thing - the Big Boys would feel free to ignore us totally. In a few years(say 8-10) we would become in essence...the new 1AA. Sure people might tune in for the Finals of our tournament, but that'd be about it.
And then...since they wouldn't have to share any of the money with us, the Power 6 leagues would form their own playoff, and we would have no seat at the table at all.

That is certainily possible, I suppose, about the money and they could form their own playoff system, but I guess I just feel like we are all ignored anyway, as it stands. But, maybe if we started our own playoff system, the NCAA would take over the playoff system as it does for all other levels, thus causing the AQ-BCS to look into a playof of their own. Remember, if a playoff gets formed, the NCAA is officially in charge. Even with all of their money, the Big 6 can't out-vote all of the other members of the NCAA. Just like with March Madness, there is a place for the smaller conferences--it probably would go that way with a football tournament, too. I can't see a way where the NCAA cannot be over a big football playoff, since they are over all other sports tournaments, including many football playoffs already.

Green Dozer · December 4, 2008

That is certainily possible, I suppose, about the money and they could form their own playoff system, but I guess I just feel like we are all ignored anyway, as it stands. But, maybe if we started our own playoff system, the NCAA would take over the playoff system as it does for all other levels, thus causing the AQ-BCS to look into a playof of their own. Remember, if a playoff gets formed, the NCAA is officially in charge. Even with all of their money, the Big 6 can't out-vote all of the other members of the NCAA. Just like with March Madness, there is a place for the smaller conferences--it probably would go that way with a football tournament, too. I can't see a way where the NCAA cannot be over a big football playoff, since they are over all other sports tournaments, including many football playoffs already.

I think the power of the Big 6 is being underestimated. Basketball is a little different, not as big a risk of serious injuries. The Big 6 is going to argue, that talent wise, they are superior to the smaller schools and will point to the many blow outs we witness every year. I.E., do you think OU would want to risk injury to Sam Bradford against say Ball St. Of course not, and why should they. Nobody will tune in because most fans will realize more than likely it won't be a game, and a game against a team like that will not have an impact on recruiting. OU will argue that it is a waste of money for travel, as the only guarantee to them of a sizable crowd would be if the game were in Norman. I don't think the NCAA knows who really carries college football. No, I think if there is a playoff system, the Big 6 will break away, and maybe the NCAA want give it publicly, they will have the NCAA's blessing.