More Of....the Problem

[SilverEagle]

Once again for those of you in the cheap seats "Look up the definition of the word value!" Too lazy? I will be happy to provide:

American Heritage Dictionary

"Worth in usefulness or importance to the possessor; utility or merit: the value of an education."

So we shouldn't market our value? Cost doesn't matter? Do you really think that parents do not consider cost when they help their child select a college? Seriously? When I went to UNT 10 years ago it was about $1000-$1200 a semester (or something like that). Now 15 hours is $3,383.40. I am pretty sure that the average income of a household hasn't tripled over that time. Cost matters. Period. And the university is right to include that it is rated as a "Best Buy" and it is not alone in doing so.

You think that because little old UNT is so sad and pathetic in the Sun Belt that we have to market ourselves as cheap. Wrong! Check out the FAQs from the University of Arkansas (which in case you didn't notice, is in the SEC):

How much will it cost for me to attend the U of A?

For the third year in a row, the U of A has earned a place among " America's 100 Best College Buys." Why? Because whether you are an Arkansan paying in-state tuition or coming from out of state, you are getting an incredible bargain for the high quality education available on our campus!

By the way, that is the same list that UNT is on.

Or how about the first thing that appears on the cost section of the University of South Carolina admissions site:

Recently, Kiplingers Personal Finance magazine named the University of South Carolina as one of the “100 Best Values in Public Education.” That’s not the only list you’ll find us on— U.S. News & World Report ranks the University of South Carolina as one of the best national public institutions. When your son or daughter attends USC, you’ll find that excellence doesn’t have to be expensive.

The website also states that their fall freshman class is already full, so you can't apply. They obviously have no trouble recruiting students. So why would they be so eager to share that they are a "best buy" college? Maybe because it matters.

Some of you mentioned TCU. On their freshman admissions page, even they mention cost:

"Cost

Don't rule out any school based on its "sticker price." Most have significant financial aid opportunities that can cut the cost by as much as half for many students."

By the way they also sell their location. I know some of you hate that people go to UNT because of its location, but that matters too.

"Location

Make sure the school you choose is in a place that offers activities you enjoy and diverse job opportunities in case you stay there after you graduate."

This year, UNT is as large as ever. Yet, UNT rejected more students that ever. What is the connection? Admission standards have increased for freshmen considerably over the years. My guess is that some of you could not get in to UNT under the current standards. (As an example, I was a complete screw-up in high school and ended up in the 3rd quarter of my graduating class. My 1130 on the SAT would not have gotten me into UNT today). UNT is one of the only Texas public universities that has consistently experienced annual growth. Texas Tech had to open up admissions this year to get their numbers up and their average incoming SAT score dropped 20 points and is now below the average for UNT. So UNT has increased standards and experienced growth.

Another example. Oklahoma State advertises that they are a best buy on the first page of their undergrad admissions website. They also claim a high Princeton Review ranking regionally. What are their admissions standards? A 3.0 and top third of your high school class. Or a 3.0 and a 980. Yet Okie St is the bigtime? I will take UNT.

There are definately students that do not really want to be at UNT. There are students that choose it because of price or location solely. And there are students that are not going to bleed green no matter what. Boo hoo.

The key is providing a quality education and excellent experiences to all students that attend, no matter the reason the the student came here. My student assistant discussed this with me this morning. She wanted to go to Austin College because of the reputation of their pre-med program. Her father wouldn't let me because they wanted her at home. She loves UNT now and said she is really glad she came. Good experiences equals good feelings about the university.

Sorry for the somewhat disjointed, Plummish rant. But this attitude really pisses me off. Raising the price itself does not make the degree more valuable or the school more desirable. It just makes it more expensive.

No one is suggesting that the school raise the price of tuition.

The problem that I have with the ad is that North Texas has been an institution of higher learning for 127 years. We have gained international recognition for at least one of our programs, and national recognition for others. Yet our school's publication chooses to lead with a discussion about value in it's ad? Do you think that it's an ok thing that we still get referred to as a commuter school? After all, commuter schools are also a great value.

To me, comparing us to UA, OkSt, and South Carolina is not valid because they are not struggling with loyalty and/or image issues. Everyone knows who they are, and they never get tagged with such dismissive terms like "commuter school". When you mainly talk about value in your ad, it sounds commuter school....ish.

How about having someone like your student assistant talk about how she loves North Texas because all of the wonderful COLLEGE AND/OR CAMPUS LIFE EXPERIENCES that she has had. And no, she doesn't need to mention that North Texas was not her first choice. She can do that in a private conversation.

Why didn't they talk about what a wonderful school this is? How it has a long and great academic tradition. You could still talk about value. Just put it in the smaller print.....like they did about our academics.

[Ibleedgreen]

I have two degrees from North Texas and a Master's degree from TCU. Trust me...I value the education I received at NT FAR ABOVE what I received at TCU. More expensive does not mean better. When I was ready to get a third degree, I went back to the place where I received the better education in the first place, and that school was in Denton.

[GreenAlums]

To let you all know I did not get into UNT on my first try even though I did get into other of those big "Private" schools. I am an average student who really wanted to come to this University. I did not take no for an answer and after writing another letter I was accepted. I had to take PSYC 1000 my first semester, a class that teaches you how to succeed in college. I did not need the clas,s I got over 100 in the end. What I did have was a great teacher who loved working at UNT and even gave extra credit for those who wore green on fridays.

It was decided to get rid of the PSYC 1000 class. I have suggested to many officials that we create a new class. One that all incoming freshmen must take. The focus of the class would be the history of the University, all the different schools and possible fields of study and especially teaching tradition. This class would be so valuable showing incoming freshmen all the possibilities they can take rather than just being an undecided major for 3 years. Get them doing something they want to do and also get them involved with the university by participating and enforcing tradition.

Boomer23, I can almost mirror your story. Along with being a Talon, my pledge class pres., I too was told no....at first. I made a trip to UNT and pled my case in front of the Director of Admissions. They let me and I graduated with a 3.2 overall. Never flagged a course, although I dropped a few back in the time you could instead of getting an F.

To this day, I have been very successful and love UNT!

[Eagle1855]

My girlfriend got into Texas but had to take Pysc 1000 to get into UNT. Go figure...

[NTPhiKap99]

Still too soon.

[LittleMeanGreenMan]

Bottom line is we are a commuter school and offer a pretty decent education at a very low price so why not market this way? A new stadium, a SBC title, or anything else will not change that; it is the way the people of the DFW metroplex see NT. Growing up nearby, it was pretty widely known at my high school that NT was a place people either transferred to from a JUCO or went to out of convenience. I even had people tell me that it is not a 'real college'. I don't agree with this assessment, but I can see where they are coming from given our pride and participation among students here as compared to a UT or A&M or Tech.

Unfortunately that is where we stand right now in the eyes of outsiders looking in. I guess it is better than the "DFW's number one college" or whatever our old ad campaign said.

Sad but true folks.

[Green Mean]

Bottom line is we are a commuter school and offer a pretty decent education at a very low price so why not market this way? A new stadium, a SBC title, or anything else will not change that; it is the way the people of the DFW metroplex see NT. Growing up nearby, it was pretty widely known at my high school that NT was a place people either transferred to from a JUCO or went to out of convenience. I even had people tell me that it is not a 'real college'. I don't agree with this assessment, but I can see where they are coming from given our pride and participation among students here as compared to a UT or A&M or Tech.

Unfortunately that is where we stand right now in the eyes of outsiders looking in. I guess it is better than the "DFW's number one college" or whatever our old ad campaign said.

Sad but true folks.

Tho your post is very blunt, you are very right. You are what you are and you cant hide it. Now that can change but as of right now this is where NT stands unfortunately.

[meangreendork]

Bottom line is we are a commuter school and offer a pretty decent education at a very low price so why not market this way? A new stadium, a SBC title, or anything else will not change that; it is the way the people of the DFW metroplex see NT. Growing up nearby, it was pretty widely known at my high school that NT was a place people either transferred to from a JUCO or went to out of convenience. I even had people tell me that it is not a 'real college'. I don't agree with this assessment, but I can see where they are coming from given our pride and participation among students here as compared to a UT or A&M or Tech.

Unfortunately that is where we stand right now in the eyes of outsiders looking in. I guess it is better than the "DFW's number one college" or whatever our old ad campaign said.

Sad but true folks.

Did you not see the previous posts? I won't call UNT cheap. Furthermore, UNT isn't really a commuter school either. Last I checked, a vast majority of UNT students live within the Denton area.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Bottom line is we are a commuter school and offer a pretty decent education at a very low price so why not market this way? A new stadium, a SBC title, or anything else will not change that; it is the way the people of the DFW metroplex see NT. Growing up nearby, it was pretty widely known at my high school that NT was a place people either transferred to from a JUCO or went to out of convenience. I even had people tell me that it is not a 'real college'. I don't agree with this assessment, but I can see where they are coming from given our pride and participation among students here as compared to a UT or A&M or Tech.

Unfortunately that is where we stand right now in the eyes of outsiders looking in. I guess it is better than the "DFW's number one college" or whatever our old ad campaign said.

Sad but true folks.

Obviously, we are our own worst enemy when it comes to perception. If outsiders view us as a "commuter college" or "not a 'real college,'" why would they ever change that impression when the only response we can come up with is, "Uhhh, yeah. I don't agree with your assessment, but I see where you're coming from." Many in the Metroplex have that perception of UNT because they want to have that perception. Graduates of UT, SMU, etc. want to believe they got something that UNT graduates do not receive. When I was looking to transfer to UNT from a private college (not because of grades and not really because of money), I saw UNT as having a world-class music school on a par with the world class music school I was already attending. I don't have a major problem with UNT being marketed as a great value, but I have a major problem with UNT graduates selling their alma mater short to the world.

[FirefightnRick]

I'm searching for it but I still can't find that glossy ad of a current student that was sent out to literally thousands of households saying " I wanted to get a really good education without paying a lot of money so I attended the University of Arkansas".

Rick

[GreenBlooded1]

a vast majority of UNT students live within the Denton area.

This is being helped by the recent rules that new incoming Freshmen MUST live on campus (ie. in Campus housing) for their first year at UNT. I am working with two folks who's daughters are both new to UNT. This is their Freshman year and even though their families live within 30 miles of the school... the kids have to stay in the Dorms. Hopefully this will instill in them the Traditions and Affiliation that we all which more people felt toward our beloved UNT. My family lived in Denton and I was never given an opportunity to live on campus. Reflecting on this, I feel that I missed out on many traditions that many of you probably got to experience. I never took into consideration the cost of UNT... for me and my family it was all about location and an AWESOME opportunity to get a quality education.

[Superfrog]

TCU does not have higher academic standards. Their school of business was only accredited a few years ago. And just to prove your theory wrong on affording the college and going to TCU...

Not sure where you got this info, but the business school at TCU is ranked #32 in nation

Years in which the following programs were founded:

Full-time MBA: 1938

Part-time MBA : 1938

Undergraduate business program: 1884

Executive MBA: 1999

Executive Education (non-degree): 1984

BUSINESSWEEK RANKS TCU’S NEELEY SCHOOL #32

FOR BEST UNDERGRADUATE BUSINESS SCHOOLS 2008

BusinessWeek revealed today the third annual ranking of U.S. undergraduate business programs, and the Neeley School of Business at TCU rose to No. 32 out of 196 schools. Neeley ranked No. 39 last year. The University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton school ranks #1.

Neeley ranks 4th for Return on Investment for private schools, the highest ranking undergraduate business school in Texas. Brigham Young, Miami and Cornell are 1-3, respectively. Return on investment was determined by the average salary per tuition dollar. TCU's tuition for 2007-2008 was $24,865, and the median starting salary of Neeley graduates was $50,000. Neeley graduates' average salaries per tuition dollar was $2.01, according to BusinessWeek.

Neeley ranks 10th for Hardest Working Students, again the highest among Texas undergraduate business schools. Finally, TCU’s business school ranks 33rd for undergraduate Internships.

Neeley’s Teaching Quality grade is A; Facilities and Service grade is A+, and Job Placement grade is A.

BusinessWeek uses nine distinct measures, including surveys of 80,000 business majors and more than 600 corporate recruiters, the median starting salaries for graduates, and the number of graduates each program sends on to the preeminent MBA programs. They also calculate an academic quality score by combining SAT scores, faculty-student ratios, class size, the percentage of students with internships, and the number of hours students spend on class work each week.

The Neeley School of Business makes up about one-third of TCU’s undergraduate population.

Bill Moncrief, senior associate dean for undergraduate programs, says: “We know we have an outstanding undergraduate program even without this high ranking, because our applications increase each year. Rankings such as BusinessWeek’s raise our profile. Students are taking notice of TCU for undergraduate business education, and are making smart choices about business degrees and careers.”

The nationally ranked Neeley School of Business at TCU focuses on personal development, vital connections and real experiences. High functioning classrooms and calculated career development give students the platform to succeed. Renowned faculty, major corporations and leading executives connect to share winning business practices. Students work for real clients to solve critical challenges. Neeley is consistently recognized among the best business schools in the country by The Wall Street Journal, BusinessWeek, Forbes, Fortune, US News & World Report and The Princeton Review. From skills and strategies to team dynamics and global expeditions, we make sure Neeley graduates are trailblazing business leaders – each in their own individual way.

[Censored by Laurie]

Still too soon.

ValueJet humor was funny in 96...ValueJet humor is funny now.

I really can't believe the insecurity in some of you...it isn't healthy. I mentioned in another thread hyping our Music program...and I was jumped all over for that despite the fact that it really is the only EXCEPTIONAL program at our school...all of our other schools are wonderful...but on par (slightly better in some areas, slightly worse in others) to most of the other schools in Texas...UT, A&M, TCU, SMU, Tech(maybe), Houston, ect...public or private...you will end up with a comparable education. The fact that UNT can do it for an affordable price is something that ought to be marketed.

And I don't think that has any effect on school pride. UNT is not UT or A&M...no high school kid is painting his bedroom wall green (or consistantly changing the shade of green paint) and dreaming of the day that he can sit in Fouts and cheer on the Mean Green. Even of us...the die-hard Mean Green fans...I'll set the low bar at 75% of us that UNT was a fall back or second choice...and that other 25% of us had parents who went here. The recruiting theory here has always been, if you can get the kids to Denton they'll love it and want to stay. Same thing goes with the regular student.

UNT is in a transitional period...we're not a commuter school...and despite the Phonies insistance...I think we're no longer recognized as such. The Master Plan and Stadium will make UNT a much more aesthetically pleasing campus and everybody is rightfully excited about our athletic program. Denton itself is even becoming more appealing a destination...especially as Austin continues to gentrify. Fry Street's decline as seen the rise of Industrial and the Square and an emerging music scene.

Just be patient

[Green Mean]

Not sure where you got this info, but the business school at TCU is ranked #32 in nation

Years in which the following programs were founded:

Full-time MBA: 1938

Part-time MBA : 1938

Undergraduate business program: 1884

Executive MBA: 1999

Executive Education (non-degree): 1984

BUSINESSWEEK RANKS TCU’S NEELEY SCHOOL #32

FOR BEST UNDERGRADUATE BUSINESS SCHOOLS 2008

BusinessWeek revealed today the third annual ranking of U.S. undergraduate business programs, and the Neeley School of Business at TCU rose to No. 32 out of 196 schools. Neeley ranked No. 39 last year. The University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton school ranks #1.

Neeley ranks 4th for Return on Investment for private schools, the highest ranking undergraduate business school in Texas. Brigham Young, Miami and Cornell are 1-3, respectively. Return on investment was determined by the average salary per tuition dollar. TCU's tuition for 2007-2008 was $24,865, and the median starting salary of Neeley graduates was $50,000. Neeley graduates' average salaries per tuition dollar was $2.01, according to BusinessWeek.

Neeley ranks 10th for Hardest Working Students, again the highest among Texas undergraduate business schools. Finally, TCU’s business school ranks 33rd for undergraduate Internships.

Neeley’s Teaching Quality grade is A; Facilities and Service grade is A+, and Job Placement grade is A.

BusinessWeek uses nine distinct measures, including surveys of 80,000 business majors and more than 600 corporate recruiters, the median starting salaries for graduates, and the number of graduates each program sends on to the preeminent MBA programs. They also calculate an academic quality score by combining SAT scores, faculty-student ratios, class size, the percentage of students with internships, and the number of hours students spend on class work each week.

The Neeley School of Business makes up about one-third of TCU’s undergraduate population.

Bill Moncrief, senior associate dean for undergraduate programs, says: “We know we have an outstanding undergraduate program even without this high ranking, because our applications increase each year. Rankings such as BusinessWeek’s raise our profile. Students are taking notice of TCU for undergraduate business education, and are making smart choices about business degrees and careers.”

The nationally ranked Neeley School of Business at TCU focuses on personal development, vital connections and real experiences. High functioning classrooms and calculated career development give students the platform to succeed. Renowned faculty, major corporations and leading executives connect to share winning business practices. Students work for real clients to solve critical challenges. Neeley is consistently recognized among the best business schools in the country by The Wall Street Journal, BusinessWeek, Forbes, Fortune, US News & World Report and The Princeton Review. From skills and strategies to team dynamics and global expeditions, we make sure Neeley graduates are trailblazing business leaders – each in their own individual way.

I have a few friends that go and went to TCU Neely School of Business and they say its an awesome program that is nationally recognized like what you just posted. I knew TCU had a great business school as that is one place where I did apply.

[Eagle1855]

For all of you crying over the way the ad portrays your university I must ask, did you not bother to check and see what the publics perception of UNT was before you attended the school? Seems to me that the school has ALWAYS been more a convenience for people that live in the area rather than a destination (save a few specialized degree programs). Maybe some day it changes... I believe it will... but this really isn't a big deal at all. I see it as us taking on the other public, affordable 4 year schools in the area like UTA, UTD. It's playing to one of our strengths. That's what you do when you sell a product.

I mean, if you wanted to go to a school like TT, UT, or A&M- you should have done so. If you couldn't get in (which I suspect is the case for more than half the "we hate UT" faction on this board)- get over it. Be glad UNT was there, close to home, and affordable.

It is a good school. Strides are being made. The school has made a ridiculous amount of progress since I first set foot on the campus in '99 and I fully expect it to continue doing so with the leadership we have in place. I also happen to think the UNT-Dallas campus might be a good alternative for those non-trads that want to get a decent education that is close to home. This will only help with the public's perception of the main campus as UNT becomes a more traditional college.

My opinion of UH is the same as many of your opinions of UNT. I grew up in Houston, never had any interest in attending UH though I most certainly would have been accepted. It was ranked higher than UNT at the time in my major... probably still is. I wouldn't have traded my experiences at UNT, however.

This thread is a huge waste of time, in my opinion. UNT isn't UT. It will NEVER be. It doesn't NEED to be. It can be a first-class institution without charging an arm and a leg. There's nothing wrong with being a good value as long as the admission standards continue to go up. Hell, Rice used to be FREE.

Fire away.

Edited April 7, 2008 by Eagle1855

[Superfrog]

I have a few friends that go and went to TCU Neely School of Business and they say its an awesome program that is nationally recognized like what you just posted. I knew TCU had a great business school as that is one place where I did apply.

It's definitely one of the better, larger and more popular programs at the school. I think something like 1/3 of the students are business majors. Since I graduated in 1998, you know have to apply and be accepted to the business school in order to take business classes.

Edited April 7, 2008 by Superfrog

[Guest 97and03]

I don't have a major problem with UNT being marketed as a great value, but I have a major problem with UNT graduates selling their alma mater short to the world.

Exactly. UNT is not a commuter school. We have a huge residential population that we didn't have in the past, in great part to the excellent dorms that have been built in the last 10 years. In fact there are now 14 residence halls on campus. Does that sound like a commuter school?

Perception is what is essential here. If you are paying for school and get into UNT and TCU, you just might decide to go to UNT because it is more affordable. That doesn't mean that you place less value on your UNT degree, it actually means you value the UNT degree more. You believe that you are getting a better value. Not a cheaper school, but a better value. If it was a price issue solely, everyone would go to Tarleton or Sul Ross. But they don't, they choose UNT because it is a good value, ie. they get a good return on their investment.

The alumni here need to get it in their heads that it isn't 1985. Sure UNT has a ways to go in terms of students attitudes and spirit. But I know that progress has been made. I have seen tremenous strides in the amount of students interested in football. And thought the UT and A&M shirts still exist, you have never seen so much green.

So let the attitude change start here. UNT has its problems. It isn't Harvard academically. It isn't UT in athletics. I will probably never be either. But it is a fine school that is headed in the right direction. Public perceptions change slowly, but they won't change at all as long as alumni keep shitting on their own school. If you are posting on this board, then you should care enough about UNT to try to learn more about it.

(On a side note, Sul Ross recently activated its new student alert system because of the presence of a mountain lion on campus after sunset. How cool is that?)

[Censored by Laurie]

(On a side note, Sul Ross recently activated its new student alert system because of the presence of a mountain lion on campus after sunset. How cool is that?)

It just perpetuates the stereotype that Sul Ros is in the wilderness...they need to be more aware of public perception before they do something beneficial for their school.

[Green Guy Bass]

Having probably been in college around the time you were (since my tuition also tripled between my freshman and senior years - and I condensed that into three years), I can't disagree with you on the rising costs of education. However, I just want to point out that education is regulated by the state not federal government. Thank Rick Perry and the Texas Legislature for deregulating tuition if you want to gripe about the tuition increase.

TCU does not have higher academic standards. Their school of business was only accredited a few years ago. And just to prove your theory wrong on affording the college and going to TCU... I was one of the lucky ones whose parents could pay for my college education. I was accepted at Brown University, Bryn Mawr, and Baylor, but chose to go to UNT because of its programs, location, and the feeling I got when I stepped on the campus.

That is kick-ass for you. If you research tuition costs across the nation there are anumber of states that have much higher in-state fees than Texas does. I am fully aware that our state govt. regulates tuition, but you have to admit that this is a widespread issue across our great land. Our federal government should pay more attention to the rising costs of education across the board. I am not here saying that UNT doesn't have great programs. My career has tremendously benefitted from them. And yes, I was accepted to TCU and they indeed do have higher standards on the whole (and much nicer campus).

And I can't disagree with you on it's great location in the DFW area. That is a huge reason to attend NT. But to be up in arms (as some are on this thread) about the powers that be promoting the affordability is kind of dumb in my honest opinion. Like it or not that is one of the biggest positives about our alma mater. A good business ofetn plays to their strengths and top selling points. We all forget that any University is a money making venture for someone.

I can't help but think if the football team had a better showing over the last few years and a new stadium was being thrown up as I type, this would not be that big of a hot-button issue on the message board.

[SilverEagle]

For all of you crying over the way the ad portrays your university I must ask, did you not bother to check and see what the publics perception of UNT was before you attended the school? Seems to me that the school has ALWAYS been more a convenience for people that live in the area rather than a destination (save a few specialized degree programs). Maybe some day it changes... I believe it will... but this really isn't a big deal at all. I see it as us taking on the other public, affordable 4 year schools in the area like UTA, UTD. It's playing to one of our strengths. That's what you do when you sell a product.

I mean, if you wanted to go to a school like TT, UT, or A&M- you should have done so. If you couldn't get in (which I suspect is the case for more than half the "we hate UT" faction on this board)- get over it. Be glad UNT was there, close to home, and affordable.

It is a good school. Strides are being made. The school has made a ridiculous amount of progress since I first set foot on the campus in '99 and I fully expect it to continue doing so with the leadership we have in place. I also happen to think the UNT-Dallas campus might be a good alternative for those non-trads that want to get a decent education that is close to home. This will only help with the public's perception of the main campus as UNT becomes a more traditional college.

My opinion of UH is the same as many of your opinions of UNT. I grew up in Houston, never had any interest in attending UH though I most certainly would have been accepted. It was ranked higher than UNT at the time in my major... probably still is. I wouldn't have traded my experiences at UNT, however.

This thread is a huge waste of time, in my opinion. UNT isn't UT. It will NEVER be. It doesn't NEED to be. It can be a first-class institution without charging an arm and a leg. There's nothing wrong with being a good value as long as the admission standards continue to go up. Hell, Rice used to be FREE.

Fire away.

I have always had the highest regard for this school, even before I was accepted here as a student. It has always been a great institution of higher learning. And nothing has happened in the last 32 years since I've graduated to change my perception of that. I have absolutely no regrets about the decision to attend North Texas.

This school has always had a proud tradition of education. And while it's never won a national championship in football or basketball, it's loyal fans are just as devoted as any of the fans of any Texas University. This University has history, and it has made history. Yet instead of talking about all that, our University publication chooses to talk about what a great value our degree is.

Our GREAT University deserves better than that.

[Guest 97and03]

By the way, Rick, did you bother to go to the website in the ad? If you are 18 you would. Please remember it is current high school and college students and their families that we recruit. The website that they are advertising has a great deal of information about UNT. I understand that you don't want the university to market itself as cheap. And they don't, in fact. They advertise themselves as a good value and most people want value for their money.

http://www.unt.edu/value

[Eagle1855]

I have always had the highest regard for this school, even before I was accepted here as a student. It has always been a great institution of higher learning. And nothing has happened in the last 32 years since I've graduated to change my perception of that. I have absolutely no regrets about the decision to attend North Texas.

This school has always had a proud tradition of education. And while it's never won a national championship in football or basketball, it's loyal fans are just as devoted as any of the fans of any Texas University. This University has history, and it has made history. Yet instead of talking about all that, our University publication chooses to talk about what a great value our degree is.

Hey, Im not disputing that. I LOVE this school. I'm just tired of hearing all these people crying over what UNT isn't.

Regarding the ad, you can qualify the value comment in the ad, as it's a verifiable distinction we were given by an organization. When marketing, you go with strengths. I too would like to see an ad that says something like "UNT is awesome because it just really rules and people should like it because it's fun and lots of people have good experiences so its just like UT well maybe better but anyways go here", but I think it's a tougher sell.

I don't mean any disrespect to the originator of the thread, I just happen to disagree- this ad is NOT a big deal. It was in the North Texan. I'm guessing the demo of readership is about 99% UNT alumns with the remaining 1% being students already interested in UNT.

Edited April 7, 2008 by Eagle1855

[Eagle1855]

By the way, Rick, did you bother to go to the website in the ad? If you are 18 you would. Please remember it is current high school and college students and their families that we recruit. The website that they are advertising has a great deal of information about UNT. I understand that you don't want the university to market itself as cheap. And they don't, in fact. They advertise themselves as a good value and most people want value for their money.

http://www.unt.edu/value

not to mention the fact that the first tab on that link is EXCELLENCE, not "hey it's super cheap so go here kthxbah"

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---This is a good news/bad news situation. The good news is that students/families are more likely to owe nothing or at least less by going to North Texas compared to private schools... which rarely are worth any extra cost. The state places are similiar in cost (at least on campus) ... and I would expect the real difference is location more than actual school expensives. Austin is not a cheap place to live for example. The bad news is that some people are equating expense and quality which is not always true about anything. If that is the case then the school in Dallas is the greatest place in Texas and we all know that isn't true...unless your goal is to develop "attitude problems".

[WIFE2HOT4U]

maybe I am missing it - but regarding the costs (Excluding UT)

Is there really that big of a difference? We are talking a few hundred bucks a semester!

I'm talking about incoming freshman! 98% of them don't care and the parents don't either?

UNT: $6,100 / $14,400

UT-Austin: $7,438 / $16,635

Tx A&M: $6,234 / $13,914

UH: $6,450 / $12,326

TxTech: $6,452 / $14,192

UT-D: $6,832 / $16,612

Overall Texas Tuition: $4,857 / $12,953

AGAIN, WINNING IN ATHLETICS WILL CHANGE ALMOST EVERYTHING!!!

People want to be associated with "Winners" - IMHO - Very few care about "Academic" or "How much I paid for College" - it's all about the ESPN highlights and Championships and being able to compete with your coworkers from different colleges "Athletically not Academically".

Trust me, after a few yrs job experience - FEW care about your major or where you went to school academically - The "Water Cooler" talk is about who plays who this week and who will win!

Simple - 2 things

1) Stop accepting so many transfer students

2) Athletic Success

Easier said than done - I know.