More Conference Realignment Talk; This One Involves Arkansas

[Censored by Laurie]

Arkansas fans should be livid over any suggestion of leaving the best conference in college football.

and the conference with back to back national champions in basketball...and traditional success in baseball and women's basketball. It makes some geographic sense, average travel for big 12 schools is 428 miles, 677 for SEC. The SEC is the best conference in sports (then Pac 10, Big10 and ACC...in that order) and Arkansas would be soooo nutty to leave...not Houston Nutt-y...just nutty.

Dan McDowell...sports humorist, Dallas.

[DeepGreen]

I would hope that if another major restructring occurred among several conferences, that the regional players would take that opportunity to discuss a revived Southwest Conference. We have talked about this before, but for the newies on the board: UNT, Baylor, Houston, SMU, La Tech, UtEP, Ark State, Tulsa, and La La. That would be a tremendous regional conference affording contained travel costs, good regional TV coverage and interesting regional matchups and rivalries. Just let it happen...for once let common sense prevail in college athletics. Then the leftover CUSA schools can take the eastern Belt schools and they would be set. Everyone would have a regional conference for years to come!

Wouldn't you include Rice?

[Greendylan]

The last time TCU was in a conference similar to the Big 12, Baylor (in that league's last quarter of a century) excelled and TCU did not.

If Baylor could legally get kicked out of the Big 12, doesn't it make sense that Vanderbilt U would have been kicked out of the SEC decades ago?

Baylor will be in the Big 12 a long, long time and TCU will be like the rest of the non-BCS; that is, on the outside looking in for a long, long time--sorry, Horned Frog friends, but you who know how all this works know this more than anyone.

I don't doubt that you are correct. I just thought I'd pass along the gossip that I've recently heard from others.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I don't doubt that you are correct. I just thought I'd pass along the gossip that I've recently heard from others.

Greendylan, I'm over here in the West O' Plex (Tarrant/Parker counties) and so I've spoken with many TCU alums over the years and I've heard a hardy handful of them say the very same thing concerning TCU taking Baylor's place in the Big 12. I've asked a few of them these 2 questions: (1) So what is going to make Baylor just suddenly up and leave the Big 12 and all that TV revenue behind as well so they can become a part of the "much less TV revenue" non-BCS?"

(2). "If TCU were in the higher profile Big 12 and yall do what yall did your last 25 years in the SWC (which was not much--while Baylor during that same time was kicking a$$) just who is it that will take TCU's place in the Big 12 when yall are asked to leave (like yall are suggesting will soon happen to Baylor)?

FWIW, all this TCU taking Baylor's place in the Big 12 is the kind of message board fodder that gets kicked around on boards like Frog Fan Forum and even GoMeanGreen.com while we all wait for 2-a-days to start in a few weeks.

Edited July 12, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[GreenN'walinsVet]

I hate to say to the frog fans, but if you UNT would get its act together (like it looks like its starting to do) i believe the BIG 12 would take NT over TCU on the sole reason that we are a state funded university and have the extra funds to compete in the BIG 12. I really dont see them dumping the onlly private school for another

[PHSCoach]

state funded university and have the extra funds to compete in the BIG 12.

sure missed them on the P&L

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Realizing that absolutely ZERO of this will ever happen, it's nevertheless enjoyable to speculate conference realignment while waiting for fall practice to start.

My favorite conference would be the following 12 teams:

UTEP

TCU

North Texas

SMU

Rice

Houston

Louisiana

Louisiana Tech

Tulsa

Arkansas State

Tulane

Southern Miss

But who of those would want us as a member based on fan reaction? Have we (UNT and its fans) done anything to cultivate a friendship with any of these schools? We get along with the Cajuns pretty well but that's about it.

The next group that would tolerate us (or possibly not vote against us at the least) might be UTEP, Arkansas State, Tulsa and Southern Miss. Rice and Tulane could be in that group if not influenced by others.

TCU, which would never be a part of this group, thinks that they are far above us. They are less vocal but still wouldn't help us get in any conference, especially one that they are in. Houston is another that doesn't like us one bit. They are to us as TCU has been to SMU lately. If we got in, they'd try to find a better conference. Louisiana Tech thinks that they are more deserving than we are and that we are a challenge to their obtaining conference membership anywhere (except the Sun Belt). SMU. That's all that I need to say.

Let me say these obserations are based on my conception of each university's fans. I don't have a clue as to what's in the mind of each president. But, I believe in building bridges, not constantly tearing them down. You can never tell when we might need one or more of those on my list as an ally. I don't want any of them as an enemy except on the playing field.

[gangrene]

Houston is another that doesn't like us one bit. They are to us as TCU has been to SMU lately. If we got in, they'd try to find a better conference.

Let me say these obserations are based on my conception of each university's fans.

Based on a recent thread on coogfans.com regarding our stadium plans, I didn't get that same impression of UH fans.

[green_goblin]

UTEP

TCU

North Texas

SMU

Rice

Houston

Louisiana

Louisiana Tech

Tulsa

Arkansas State

Tulane

Southern Miss

How about this instead:

North Texas

SMU

Tulsa

Ark St

Houston

Rice

La Tech

Tulane

UTEP

New Mexico St

Troy

UAB

We can call it the new SWC...

[NT80]

Arkansas to Big 12? Would be interesting, but they are $tuck in the $EC.

Colorado out of Big 12? Only if it means moving to PAC 10.

Baylor kicked out of Big 12? Will never happen, they are good for automatic wins.

PAC 10 expansion? Two from Colorado, BYU, Utah, or maybe Fresno.

MWC expansion? Boise or Fresno next...UNT is probably last after UTEP or NMSU.

CUSA expansion? Many in CUSA hope to move up, only one might, not many openings soon.

SBC image? Troy has grown the most, facility improvements will help overall image for the league, need OOC wins badly!

UNT options? Build fan base, OOC wins, need new Stadium ASAP, offer bribes to CUSA-west schools.

[ntmeangreen11]

North Texas

Prarie View A&M

NCTC

SMU

TCU

Devry

Art Institute of Dallas

ITT Tech

Montana State

[Arkstfan]

Arkansas to Big 12? Would be interesting, but they are $tuck in the $EC.

Colorado out of Big 12? Only if it means moving to PAC 10.

Baylor kicked out of Big 12? Will never happen, they are good for automatic wins.

PAC 10 expansion? Two from Colorado, BYU, Utah, or maybe Fresno.

MWC expansion? Boise or Fresno next...UNT is probably last after UTEP or NMSU.

CUSA expansion? Many in CUSA hope to move up, only one might, not many openings soon.

SBC image? Troy has grown the most, facility improvements will help overall image for the league, need OOC wins badly!

UNT options? Build fan base, OOC wins, need new Stadium ASAP, offer bribes to CUSA-west schools.

Yeah Arkansas is staying put.

I agree Colorado only leaves for the Pac-10. I've spent a lot of time in Boulder, they fit the Pac-10 model.

Baylor, agree completely. Every conference needs somebody to wail on on the field.

Pac 10. Colorado State doesn't fit the Pac-10 model. BYU with never on Sunday and their views on certain lifestyles would never be tolerated in the Pac 10, Fresno is part of the state system rather than University of California system, automatic disqualification, Utah wouldn't be a bad choice if they could get their support up instead of it going 45 minutes down the road to BYU.

MWC expansion? Iffy that they expand, MWC was formed over rivals not playing every year, without a 9 game league schedule some games are going to have to be skipped.

CUSA expand? Not without a loss and that's not terribly likely soon, a parting of ways within the league (see Metro Conference break-up and Great Midwest formation) is possible.

SBC image slowly improving. The first three Thursdays of the season feature games with Belt teams, that's quicker than I ever expected. Facility wise we've passed the MAC, just have to execute.

Build a fan base is the only option for UNT. Changing conferences doesn't mean much if the league you join changes (see La.Tech's happy affilation with SMU, Rice, Tulsa) or you don't have the resources to compete at the new conference level. Cellar dweller sucks unless paid handsomely for the role. Boise has demonstrated that not being in the best non-BCS league (generally not even second best) is no bar to national recognition.

[Green Mean]

I believe the main reason Arkansas left the SWC to begin with back in the day was that it was a conference that was way too regional and that the SWC was starting to lose its luster nationally. The SEC was the best thing that happened to them as far as the competition they are playing, the conference they are in and the money they are able to generate. However that being said why would they not come consider making a move to the big 12? They would rekindle old rivalries with old SWC schools plus the rest of the big 12, they would totally boost their recruiting in the state of Texas and it could possibly mean just as much if not more money with some new TV/Ad kinda deal. I'm not saying Arkansas would or will do it but I dont see why they would not atleast consider it.

On to the whole Colorado/Baylor situation....it seems to me that in this whole situation and rumourdom that the only way that there could be any kinda major realignment is if the PAC 10 decides to expand to 12 teams or so. I think at that time they would go after a Colorado and maybe perhaps BSU/Utah/BYU etc. At that point their would be a spot open in the Big 12 and then maybe they would try to lure Arkansas or TCU into the equation. I just dont see Baylor going anywhere because we all they wont want too and I would highly doubt a conference would kick out a school.

As for UNT, I admit I like CUSA but I think the current WAC and MWC are better conferences and better choices. I know that travel will be cheaper and more rivalries could be developed with schools in the state but shouldnt we consider going to a conference that is more known and more national? When I think CUSA I just think nothing but really close regional schools and that I would prefer the current WAC or the MWC. In my opinion I dont think it will take a new stadium to get into a conference even though it surely cannot hurt. I think if we start consistently winning again and make better games out of teams from better conferences and etc, then I think we are very close at that point. If we start winning again then maybe more fans will come out since TD is at the helm so at that point the attendance is rising and we are winning with some hopefully fun football. Heck we were already offered once by the WAC so its not that we CANT get there....all we gotta do is stay the course and start producing at UNT first.

Edited July 13, 2007 by Green Mean

[Censored by Laurie]

Arkansas to Big 12? Would be interesting, but they are $tuck in the $EC.

Colorado out of Big 12? Only if it means moving to PAC 10.

Baylor kicked out of Big 12? Will never happen, they are good for automatic wins.

PAC 10 expansion? Two from Colorado, BYU, Utah, or maybe Fresno.

MWC expansion? Boise or Fresno next...UNT is probably last after UTEP or NMSU.

CUSA expansion? Many in CUSA hope to move up, only one might, not many openings soon.

SBC image? Troy has grown the most, facility improvements will help overall image for the league, need OOC wins badly!

UNT options? Build fan base, OOC wins, need new Stadium ASAP, offer bribes to CUSA-west schools.

Yeah Arkansas is staying put.

I agree Colorado only leaves for the Pac-10. I've spent a lot of time in Boulder, they fit the Pac-10 model.

Baylor, agree completely. Every conference needs somebody to wail on on the field.

Pac 10. Colorado State doesn't fit the Pac-10 model. BYU with never on Sunday and their views on certain lifestyles would never be tolerated in the Pac 10, Fresno is part of the state system rather than University of California system, automatic disqualification, Utah wouldn't be a bad choice if they could get their support up instead of it going 45 minutes down the road to BYU.

MWC expansion? Iffy that they expand, MWC was formed over rivals not playing every year, without a 9 game league schedule some games are going to have to be skipped.

CUSA expand? Not without a loss and that's not terribly likely soon, a parting of ways within the league (see Metro Conference break-up and Great Midwest formation) is possible.

SBC image slowly improving. The first three Thursdays of the season feature games with Belt teams, that's quicker than I ever expected. Facility wise we've passed the MAC, just have to execute.

Build a fan base is the only option for UNT. Changing conferences doesn't mean much if the league you join changes (see La.Tech's happy affilation with SMU, Rice, Tulsa) or you don't have the resources to compete at the new conference level. Cellar dweller sucks unless paid handsomely for the role. Boise has demonstrated that not being in the best non-BCS league (generally not even second best) is no bar to national recognition.

Arkansas would be nuts to leave the SEC...they're not going anywhere.

The Pac-10 has absolutly no motivation to expand. They are already a BCS conference and that will never change...they and the SEC are the deepest conferences in terms of the smaller sports as well: back to back National Baseball champions, swimming and diving, volleyball, gymnastics, water polo ect...it may not seem like much to us, but we've never been competitive in those areas and the Pac 10 schools take these sports seriously. Add to that the want for academia to be associated with the Pac 10 by their university presidents...they wouldn't water that down with the likes of Colorado or Fresno St.

If the MWC expands...I have a hard time believing they're not going after Boise St.

CUSA expands if the Big East does...but the Big East is already at 16 teams for basketball...doubt they'd want to add another. Big East tradition is built around basketball.

It seems the only likely opening anytime soon would be the WAC replacing Boise...and probably taking 2 to make 10. But how much better is a Boise-less WAC than the Sun Belt...and travel doesn't get any better, especially those trips to Hawaii.

ACC full, SEC full, Big 10 full...unless Notre Dame wants to join...but why the hell would they when they don't have to share bowl revenue, and MAC full.

Patience maybe the best policy. Sun Belt football is going into its seventh year. We have 2 bowl wins in that time...plus a couple of nationally noteworthy upsets. With WKU moving up this season, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them quickly into the realm of Troy...FAU has a strong commitment to athletics as evidenced by the coaches they've brought in and a great state to recruit in. MTSU made some huge strides last season. Add us and there are 5 up and coming programs...in all sports (except mens soccer and baseball ).

A new SWC would be great...but probably a pipe dream...time to suck it up...admit our current place in the football landscape...build OUR PROGRAM and win despite our conference affiliation. Who cares at this point what type of national recognition we have when we have very little locally. Lets beat SMU, beat Navy and have strong showings against Sooner and Roothog and continue our strong recruiting efforts. Its tough for me to knock a conference that we finished second to last in last season.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Arkansas would be nuts to leave the SEC...they're not going anywhere.

The Pac-10 has absolutly no motivation to expand. They are already a BCS conference and that will never change...they and the SEC are the deepest conferences in terms of the smaller sports as well: back to back National Baseball champions, swimming and diving, volleyball, gymnastics, water polo ect...it may not seem like much to us, but we've never been competitive in those areas and the Pac 10 schools take these sports seriously. Add to that the want for academia to be associated with the Pac 10 by their university presidents...they wouldn't water that down with the likes of Colorado or Fresno St.

If the MWC expands...I have a hard time believing they're not going after Boise St.

CUSA expands if the Big East does...but the Big East is already at 16 teams for basketball...doubt they'd want to add another. Big East tradition is built around basketball.

It seems the only likely opening anytime soon would be the WAC replacing Boise...and probably taking 2 to make 10. But how much better is a Boise-less WAC than the Sun Belt...and travel doesn't get any better, especially those trips to Hawaii.

ACC full, SEC full, Big 10 full...unless Notre Dame wants to join...but why the hell would they when they don't have to share bowl revenue, and MAC full.

Patience maybe the best policy. Sun Belt football is going into its seventh year. We have 2 bowl wins in that time...plus a couple of nationally noteworthy upsets. With WKU moving up this season, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them quickly into the realm of Troy...FAU has a strong commitment to athletics as evidenced by the coaches they've brought in and a great state to recruit in. MTSU made some huge strides last season. Add us and there are 5 up and coming programs...in all sports (except mens soccer and baseball ).

A new SWC would be great...but probably a pipe dream...time to suck it up...admit our current place in the football landscape...build OUR PROGRAM and win despite our conference affiliation. Who cares at this point what type of national recognition we have when we have very little locally. Lets beat SMU, beat Navy and have strong showings against Sooner and Roothog and continue our strong recruiting efforts. Its tough for me to knock a conference that we finished second to last in last season.

Good, realistic and sensible post (especially the last 2 paragraphs).

Edited July 13, 2007 by PlummMeanGreen

[the real grad88]

Arkansas would be nuts to leave the SEC...they're not going anywhere.

The Pac-10 has absolutly no motivation to expand. They are already a BCS conference and that will never change...they and the SEC are the deepest conferences in terms of the smaller sports as well: back to back National Baseball champions, swimming and diving, volleyball, gymnastics, water polo ect...it may not seem like much to us, but we've never been competitive in those areas and the Pac 10 schools take these sports seriously. Add to that the want for academia to be associated with the Pac 10 by their university presidents...they wouldn't water that down with the likes of Colorado or Fresno St.

If the MWC expands...I have a hard time believing they're not going after Boise St.

CUSA expands if the Big East does...but the Big East is already at 16 teams for basketball...doubt they'd want to add another. Big East tradition is built around basketball.

It seems the only likely opening anytime soon would be the WAC replacing Boise...and probably taking 2 to make 10. But how much better is a Boise-less WAC than the Sun Belt...and travel doesn't get any better, especially those trips to Hawaii.

ACC full, SEC full, Big 10 full...unless Notre Dame wants to join...but why the hell would they when they don't have to share bowl revenue, and MAC full.

Patience maybe the best policy. Sun Belt football is going into its seventh year. We have 2 bowl wins in that time...plus a couple of nationally noteworthy upsets. With WKU moving up this season, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them quickly into the realm of Troy...FAU has a strong commitment to athletics as evidenced by the coaches they've brought in and a great state to recruit in. MTSU made some huge strides last season. Add us and there are 5 up and coming programs...in all sports (except mens soccer and baseball ).

A new SWC would be great...but probably a pipe dream...time to suck it up...admit our current place in the football landscape...build OUR PROGRAM and win despite our conference affiliation. Who cares at this point what type of national recognition we have when we have very little locally. Lets beat SMU, beat Navy and have strong showings against Sooner and Roothog and continue our strong recruiting efforts. Its tough for me to knock a conference that we finished second to last in last season.

Look, no one is knocking the Belt just by talking conference realignment. I am talking about what is best for all the Belt schools. It makes no sense whatsover for schools in Florida and Alabama and Tennessee to be playing schools in Texas...particularly when you are talking about schools with regional influence and appeal athletically. Does anyone really think that people across the country are listening to the UNT-FIU game? But there should would be a heck of a lot of media and fan interest on a regional basis for the annual UNT-SMU game or UNT-Tulsa game...and for the eastern folks, an annual Troy-Alabama Birmingham game. Tight regional conferences simply make sense in midmajor college football. This far-flungness has got end some time.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

---I think any realignment will begin with problems in the Big East because of the huge size (16 teams) and the fact than half play football and half don't. If that happened then changes will spill over to CUSA which will change the Sunbelt as well plus LaTech will likely change conferences.

---Those expecting Baylor or Colorado to leave the Big-XII will have a long wait if ever. I doubt the Pac-10 will expand any unless something happens in the NCAA which changes things regarding a playoff system. TCU is enjoying great success in the MWC but will that continue and what will happen if it doesn't? TCU is not that large as colleges go and the travel is expensive. If we improve attendance and become a little more respected we may very easily be more attractive to someone than TCU in the metroplex.... we are very large and a state supported university. SMU is history...their glory days are over.... their alums are living in the past. They have little support from the people of Dallas as their attendance shows. Their attitude toward others have destroyed all hope of recovering and has turned people off toward them.

Edited July 13, 2007 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Arkstfan]

Real grad 88, you are correct. If you look at the current alignments outside the rich six leagues, CUSA and Sun Belt are the most geographically out of whack. The idea of UNT and SMU players waving at each other as they both board planes to Florida or West Virginia is bizarre. ASU and Memphis standing in the same airport catching flights to Florida or North Carolina is completely out of whack.

Sooner or later that is going to cause a CUSA/Sun Belt shuffle.

[Mean Green 93-98]

The idea of UNT and SMU players waving at each other

[the real grad88]

---I think any realignment will begin with problems in the Big East because of the huge size (16 teams) and the fact than half play football and half don't. If that happened then changes will spill over to CUSA which will change the Sunbelt as well plus LaTech will likely change conferences.

---Those expecting Baylor or Colorado to leave the Big-XII will have a long wait if ever. I doubt the Pac-10 will expand any unless something happens in the NCAA which changes things regarding a playoff system. TCU is enjoying great success in the MWC but will that continue and what will happen if it doesn't? TCU is not that large as colleges go and the travel is expensive. If we improve attendance and become a little more respected we may very easily be more attractive to someone than TCU in the metroplex.... we are very large and a state supported university. SMU is history...their glory days are over.... their alums are living in the past. They have little support from the people of Dallas as their attendance shows. Their attitude toward others have destroyed all hope of recovering and has turned people off toward them.

My question is when are state legislatures going to get involved or the federal department of education? Rich conferences can legitimately say that conference revenue and TV contracts and such more than pay for their travel costs and such. We can't say that. We pay for all of this far-flungness on the backs of student fees to support athletics and indirectly by federal student loans and grants (which pay tuition and fees). How many millions are spent on athletic travel budgets across the country that could be minimized by regional conference affiliations? I work in higher ed. I know how much federal money, in the form of grants and loans are figured into the bottom line budgets in colleges. It is astounding.

[the real grad88]

My question is when are state legislatures going to get involved or the federal department of education? Rich conferences can legitimately say that conference revenue and TV contracts and such more than pay for their travel costs and such. We can't say that. We pay for all of this far-flungness on the backs of student fees to support athletics and indirectly by federal student loans and grants (which pay tuition and fees). How many millions are spent on athletic travel budgets across the country that could be minimized by regional conference affiliations? I work in higher ed. I know how much federal money, in the form of grants and loans are figured into the bottom line budgets in colleges. It is astounding.

[AnotherEagleFan]

I cannot wait until Football games begin. But until then here is my opinion about the current state of Conferences.

1. Teams are not getting "kicked out" of their conferences because of lack of on the field performance. No one is taking Baylors place. But is sure is fun to talk about.

2. The BCS conferences need the mid majors (especially the ones that do not win) on their schedules. This gives the middle tier BCS schools enough wins to go to a bowl game. Assuming they get a couple of conference wins.

3. I see two ways for the mid majors to somehow try to get on equal playing field as a whole with the BCS teams.

a. playoff system

b. playoff system

My opinion is free and probably worth every penny...

[Eagle1855]

I cannot wait until Football games begin. But until then here is my opinion about the current state of Conferences.

1. Teams are not getting "kicked out" of their conferences because of lack of on the field performance. No one is taking Baylors place. But is sure is fun to talk about.

2. The BCS conferences need the mid majors (especially the ones that do not win) on their schedules. This gives the middle tier BCS schools enough wins to go to a bowl game. Assuming they get a couple of conference wins.

3. I see two ways for the mid majors to somehow try to get on equal playing field as a whole with the BCS teams.

a. playoff system

b. playoff system

My opinion is free and probably worth every penny...

I agree- but what are we supposed to do for the rest of the summer?

[AnotherEagleFan]

I agree- but what are we supposed to do for the rest of the summer?

Everyone knows that Vandy is going to the Big East leaving a spot for.... Baylor (the SEC needs a TX team)

Arkansas leaves the SEC to be in the same conference as some of their old buddies in the Big XII filling the vacant spot left by Baylor. This leaves a spot in the SEC for???

The SEC has invited THE University of North Texas who is building a new Stadium and is a natural rival for Baylor. SEC coach tommy Tuberville has stated "The SEC expansion into Texas is a great move for the SEC. It provides a great recriting base for the conference as a whole".

There You have it I got us in the SEC with Baylor.

Wait did we want the Big XII?????

Seriously though...... Where did you get the picture of my car?

[UNTflyer]

The SEC is the best conference and Arkansas should stay put