Devil's advocate take - How important are facilities really in recruiting?

[El Paso Eagle]

For years we rag on UTSA for their facilities and have also done the same with La Tech, yet they seem to be able to recruit well. Not saying facilities are not necessary, but they indeed don't seem to be the game changer.

[UNT86]

They are critical.  I killed us in Fouts when a kid would go to see a school with turf and come to NT and see dormant grass in the winter.  It kills us in basketball when they come see the Pit and there isn't a basketball floor down.  It killed us when we didn't have an indoor practice facility and the high school he was coming from did.  

It is absolutely critical.

 

[DentonLurker]

In recruiting, everything matters. Each thing is of different importance for each recruit. It's not just facilities. It's not just coaching. It's not just academics. It's not just location. It's a mix of all of the above plus some other things I'm sure that is weighted differently by each athlete.

[Wag Tag]

Behind NIL dollars!

[greenjoe]

And yet some good athletes chose to go to UTSA.

[ColoradoEagle]

12 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

And yet some good athletes chose to go to UTSA.

It doesn't matter 100% of the time, no. Some kids may just want to stay close to home, or have a relative at the school, or whatever. But if a kid is on the fence, they're probably going to fall to the side where they're going to feel more comfortable.

There are some people who want the cheapest house they can find, but there's way more that want the nicest house they can move into.

[greenminer]

when we are competing with other G5 peers? Not so much

UTSA had a great day yesterday, getting verbals from a few we had offered. Plus the 4 star (don’t know if we offered him).

the Dome is old and off campus, but it’s obviously not old or bad enough that Apogee is convincing them to come to Denton instead.

The facility arms race is real, but it’s not going to work 100% across the board. The best facilities in the AAC are not going to sign 100% of the AAC recruiting pool. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by greenminer

[Mike Jackson]

1 hour ago, UNT86 said:

It is absolutely critical

I think that is a tad overstated.  It is critical to have facilities on par with programs at your level.  If we magically got the money to afford to bring our sports facilities on par with the better SEC programs we are not signing a ton of 4 stars overnight.  We left Fouts Field a decade late minimal given leadership’s stated aspirations.   Having facilities in disrepair does far more damage than what great facilities can gain you.  Because bad facilities discourage not only recruits but coaches and recruiters to come help your program.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Mike Jackson

[Rudy]

NutsaCK recruits well because they have a KFC division of recruiting that is able to see out players who REALLY REALLY like extra crispy. 

 

I didn't realize there were so many NutsaCK fans on here?

Edited July 4, 2023 by Rudy

[Mike Jackson]

18 hours ago, greenminer said:

the Dome is old and off campus, but it’s obviously not old or bad enough that Apogee is convincing them to come to Denton instead.

It being a Dome makes it unique in CFB and novelty for recruits.  So that offsets the negativity of it being old and off campus.  I hear they desperately need to upgrade their support facilities.  And if were in their leadership I would spend top dollar for those improvements and delay the on campus stadium as long as possible.  San Antonio reminds me a lot of San Diego. Your new open air stadium will be in competition with the Alamodome for events not controlled by UTSA as long it is in decent condition.  And the Alamodome has a better location to attract events for the whole city than UTSA’s campus.  I believe between UNT & UTSA there are far more important differences to consider between the two for most recruits.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Mike Jackson

[DentonStang]

The ability to show off a nice locker room is insignificant next to the power of the NIL

[NTXCoog]

I think it is a minimum threshold for some players.  Without them, you aren't even considered.  For others it can be a tie breaker.  But I don't think its ever the primary consideration unlike NIL

[UNTLifer]

4 hours ago, UNT86 said:

They are critical.  I killed us in Fouts when a kid would go to see a school with turf and come to NT and see dormant grass in the winter.  It kills us in basketball when they come see the Pit and there isn't a basketball floor down.  It killed us when we didn't have an indoor practice facility and the high school he was coming from did.  

It is absolutely critical.

 

Fouts had turf, shitty, dangerous carpet, but it had turf.  They replaced the grass in the mid to late 80's if memory serves.

[bstnsportsfan3]

Winning is the most important recruiting tool

[Mike Jackson]

2 hours ago, DentonStang said:

The ability to show off a nice locker room is insignificant next to the power of the NIL

NIL is insignificant compared no conference championships in 38 years, highlights of 1/2 empty Ford Stadium and snooty student body that wouldn’t acknowledge your existence on campus if you didn’t have a great 40 time or bench 300 lbs.  We will see what NIL can buy you in year 3.  But so far it does not equate to actually winning anything or retaining the best coach y’all had since the death penalty.  

[NT80]

I would say Conference is more important than a lot of other factors, even facilities.  

[DentonStang]

1 hour ago, Mike Jackson said:

NIL is insignificant compared no conference championships in 38 years, highlights of 1/2 empty Ford Stadium and snooty student body that wouldn’t acknowledge your existence on campus if you didn’t have a great 40 time or bench 300 lbs.  We will see what NIL can buy you in year 3.  But so far it does not equate to actually winning anything or retaining the best coach y’all had since the death penalty.  

Nothing was retaining Dykes except a conference change.  As far as success with NIL, this is year one. Last year was the real first year of NIL being open, but we had to use it to keep Dykes from raiding the roster. We were pretty successful, but it didn't allow for mass upgrades like this year

[Rudy]

6 hours ago, DentonStang said:

The ability to show off a nice locker room is insignificant next to the power of the NIL

And the power of the NIL is insignificant next to the power of the dark side. 

[UNTcrazy727]

Hot take: our shitty locker room, and mediocre weight room hurt us way more than the Alamodome and pavilion practice field hurts UTSA. 
The expansion/renovation of the athletic building needs to start yesterday. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by UNTcrazy727

[RBP79]

UTSA's ability to ask a potential recruit, "how many years of college football do you want to play" is definitely a recruiting success...just ask Frank Harris.

[NT80]

1 hour ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

Hot take: our shitty locker room, and mediocre weight room hurt us way more than the Alamodome and pavilion practice field hurts UTSA. 
The expansion/renovation of the athletic building needs to start yesterday. 

Have you ever seen West Virginia's athletic center?   I have no clue what it looks like, and it doesn't really matter.   It's them being in the Big12 that matters, not their locker room layout.  

I've never heard a single athlete or student or anyone say they committed to a school/program because of an athletic center.  It helps the overall image of the program but it is not the determining factor for anyone.    

[greenminer]

2 hours ago, NT80 said:

Have you ever seen West Virginia's athletic center?   I have no clue what it looks like, and it doesn't really matter.   It's them being in the Big12 that matters, not their locker room layout.  

I've never heard a single athlete or student or anyone say they committed to a school/program because of an athletic center.  It helps the overall image of the program but it is not the determining factor for anyone.    

P5 conference affiliation is an entirely different, powerful influence that dwarfs almost anything else we can offer recruits.

Although it hasn't been said out loud, I think this discussion is mostly about winning recruits amongst our AAC/G5 peers.

[NT80]

31 minutes ago, greenminer said:

P5 conference affiliation is an entirely different, powerful influence that dwarfs almost anything else we can offer recruits.

Although it hasn't been said out loud, I think this discussion is mostly about winning recruits amongst our AAC/G5 peers.

It's just a label.  It "implies" everything about it is better than an AAC program, but is it really? 

I didn't see a Big12 program win the NIT last year.  I saw two CUSA teams in the final.   And that's really the point.  We can get players to UNT that can beat these "implied" better teams.

[Cougar King]

21 hours ago, Rudy said:

NutsaCK recruits well because they have a KFC division of recruiting that is able to see out players who REALLY REALLY like extra crispy. 

 

I didn't realize there were so many NutsaCK fans on here?

People downvoted you because your joke wasn't funny.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Cougar King

[greenminer]

17 minutes ago, NT80 said:

It's just a label.  It "implies" everything about it is better than an AAC program, but is it really? 

I didn't see a Big12 program win the NIT last year.  I saw two CUSA teams in the final.   And that's really the point.  We can get players to UNT that can beat these "implied" better teams.

you've lost me.  I'm not even sure where your goalposts are right now.  Can you clarify?

you said "It's being in the B12 that matters."  which, it does.  when it comes to P5 vs. G5, conference affiliation is a hurdle we often cannot overcome, regardless of our facilities.
The original question is, does the facilities race matter in recruiting?  What I'm trying to say is, the facilities matter more when it comes to us recruiting against our G5 peers.