The Mwc

[PlummMeanGreen]

Whatever league we move to or stay in has to give our best Mean Green teams what Boise started (earning) and getting and that was annual Top 25 rankings.

Back before there were 10 jillion bowls, Fry left North Texas because his best teams did not get bowl invites and that even in a year when one of his Mean Green football teams beat a 6 & 5 Tennessee Vols football team.

Well, I think our ability (or lack thereof) to get future (very) good Mean Green football teams with a great consortium of Texas high school produced recruits into Top 25 polls will be the next problem we could have if we are not in a league whose best teams get Top 25 recognition.

Albeit the Sun Belt has yet to put 1 team in a Top 25 poll in our 10 years of existence some of you keep telling me we are on the brink of that happening with a good Belt' team. Well...I do not see that happening because of the national media's attitude toward the SBC as a football league and what I think is a region of sportwriters (doing the Top 25 voting) who are more enamored with the SEC and the Big 12 and only give the SBC a Norm Hitzghes type "giggle" when someone mentions our top SBC football team of any given year.

I hope this changes for the SBC and I'm sure it will one day, but I don't think it will be for quite a while. Wright Waters stated recently that he thought the Sun Belt's Univ. of S. Alabama is the next Boise type program which I took as an almost back-handed slap at North Texas' ambitions and I'm sure his obvious knowledge that not all in MG Country are so excited about our being in his league, but I would be surprised to seen any Boise type program spring from the SBC because of all our football team's recent (10 years?) rare successes in beating a Top 25 football team and while not wanting to burst Wright Water's bubble, strangely enough I don't see South Alabama as the program who will be the trailblazer in doing that, either.

I hope either CUSA or the MWC happens for North Texas, because I think if it doesn't we will will continue in our walk in the wilderness; although in a much nicer place to do it in because of whats being built between those 2 Texas interstate systems in what is easily the most visible & strategic location for a Texas inter-collegiate football stadium this side of University of Texas-Austin.

In my humble opinion, The University of North Texas still brings the best overall & longterm upside of most schools I've seen mentioned because of our contiued expected growth and our being at the top of the triangular shaped and 8 million citizens populated North Texas Metroplex. We would hardly come into any new conference hat in hand and that's for damn sure.

Edited January 14, 2011 by PlummMeanGreen

[rcade]

i don't see us being attractive to the mwc, and i also don't see us moving west.its just a bigger, better big west/wac conference.

If that's all it was, do you really think Boise State would have joined?

in fact, i believe that utep, houston, and smu are happy in cusa. ... i thought our " consultant" recommened we stick to our knitting, become a player again in the belt , and hopefully good things will happen.am i wrong on that?

Getting an invite into a conference of the caliber of the MWC or CUSA is the good thing we're hoping to happen.

Would you turn down a MWC invite in the hopes a CUSA invite might happen down the road? I wouldn't.

[GTWT]

"become a player again in the belt"

Be still my beating heart!

[NT91]

would you take the mac over the sb?

[eulessismore]

would you take the mac over the sb?

No.

[Got5onIt]

would you take the mac over the sb?

No. Even though it seems to get a little more "recognition" than the SBC does at the moment. I think the SBC is just as good as the MAC with more "quality" wins the last few years.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Got5onIt

[Green Mean]

The MWC easily overpowers CUSA. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

[ADLER]

Whatever league we move to or stay in has to give our best Mean Green teams what Boise started (earning) and getting and that was annual Top 25 rankings.

Back before there were 10 jillion bowls, Fry left North Texas because his best teams did not get bowl invites and that even in a year when one of his Mean Green football teams beat a 6 & 5 Tennessee Vols football team.

Well, I think our ability (or lack thereof) to get future (very) good Mean Green football teams with a great consortium of Texas high school produced recruits into Top 25 polls will be the next problem we could have if we are not in a league whose best teams get Top 25 recognition.

Albeit the Sun Belt has yet to put 1 team in a Top 25 poll in our 10 years of existence some of you keep telling me we are on the brink of that happening with a good Belt' team. Well...I do not see that happening because of the national media's attitude toward the SBC as a football league and what I think is a region of sportwriters (doing the Top 25 voting) who are more enamored with the SEC and the Big 12 and only give the SBC a Norm Hitzghes type "giggle" when someone mentions our top SBC football team of any given year.

I hope this changes for the SBC and I'm sure it will one day, but I don't think it will be for quite a while. Wright Waters stated recently that he thought the Sun Belt's Univ. of S. Alabama is the next Boise type program which I took as an almost back-handed slap at North Texas' ambitions and I'm sure his obvious knowledge that not all in MG Country are so excited about our being in his league, but I would be surprised to seen any Boise type program spring from the SBC because of all our football team's recent (10 years?) rare successes in beating a Top 25 football team and while not wanting to burst Wright Water's bubble, strangely enough I don't see South Alabama as the program who will be the trailblazer in doing that, either.

I hope either CUSA or the MWC happens for North Texas, because I think if it doesn't we will will continue in our walk in the wilderness; although in a much nicer place to do it in because of whats being built between those 2 Texas interstate systems in what is easily the most visible & strategic location for a Texas inter-collegiate football stadium this side of University of Texas-Austin.

In my humble opinion, The University of North Texas still brings the best overall & longterm upside of most schools I've seen mentioned because of our contiued expected growth and our being at the top of the triangular shaped and 8 million citizens populated North Texas Metroplex. We would hardly come into any new conference hat in hand and that's for damn sure.

Plumm, would you please send me this if there is a point hidden in there somewhere.

[wardly]

If that's all it was, do you really think Boise State would have joined?

Getting an invite into a conference of the caliber of the MWC or CUSA is the good thing we're hoping to happen.

Would you turn down a MWC invite in the hopes a CUSA invite might happen down the road? I wouldn't.

we have been in a western conference before[big west] and it increases our expenses and because of time zone reduces our exposure. i'm sure thats why we turned down the wac when it was a viable conference. i agree that mwc is good move for boise because of upgrade in competition, but question if its good for us for the reasons i mentioned. having said that, a bird in hand.....,so it would be tough to turn down mwc. however, i doubt we are even on their radar.we will know more when mwc board of directors meets jan 24/25 in las vegas. my best guess is they decide TEXAS ia not in their footprint, and if they add anyone, which is a big if, it probably will be usu and a player to be named later. just a guess and by golly on my part.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Plumm, would you please send me this if there is a point hidden in there somewhere.

Point is...I wish we would hold out for the Big 12 and tell CUSA or the MWC to go do something to themselves. (just kiddin', of course).

Cliff Notes? What is this new publication called Cliff Notes? Does it elongate things like me when brevity would be, well, uh, boring?

(Yes, I've read a few Cliff Notes back in the day to help me focus in for an exam or 2).

GMG!

PS: I'm for getting in any conference whose better teams have no problem getting inside the Top 25. I think the Sun Belt is years from gaining that kind of respect from those it needs to gain that kind of respect from as in.........those who vote?

GMG!!

Edited January 15, 2011 by PlummMeanGreen

[shaft]

For UNT CUSA beats the MWC every time. The travel savings for having 4 schools within 5 hours drive time is the key.

But since we don't have an invite from either conference I don't see how this thread got to 4 pages.

[FirefightnRick]

But since we don't have an invite from either conference I don't see how this thread got to 4 pages.

It's like Women and Shopping. They may not have a dime to their name but they will still spend an entire day at the department stores?

Rick

[NT03]

It's like Women and Shopping. They may not have a dime to their name but they will still spend an entire day at the department stores?

Rick

I nominate for post of the week !

[ColoradoEagle]

we have been in a western conference before[big west] and it increases our expenses and because of time zone reduces our exposure

Oh, well if we would lose all of our exposure, then I'm against the MWC. I'll hit 88 mph on the way down to TCU and warn them.

[Coffee and TV]

Being called a commuter school shouldn't be a problem if it's answered correctly. Hell, the University of Texas is a commuter school by definition and it doesn't hurt them. There simply aren't enough dorm beds to qualify. The vast majority live in or near Austin but not on campus. There are enough that live around the city of Denton that I've never had the feeling of North Texas being a commuter school. I can't speak to Texas State but I am curious as to where they commute from. Probably most of them live around San Marcos.

I'd wager that very few universities have enough dorm space to cover the percentage required to NOT be considered a commuter campus if the student enrollment is 30,000 and up.

Don't think its being a commuter school that hurts TSU's attendance numbers, its simply the fact that most of football season still falls on "floatin down the river" season.

[Yellow Snow]

For UNT CUSA beats the MWC every time. The travel savings for having 4 schools within 5 hours drive time is the key.

But since we don't have an invite from either conference I don't see how this thread got to 4 pages.

The first criteria when determining what conference is best for UNT is distance to other conference schools? CUSA definately has this going for it. That said, if the most defining reason for joining a conference is travel distance... maybe major conference football isn't for UNT in the first place.

Lemme ask you this... Lets say UNT joins CUSA and wins every game... has an undefeated season. Would that be more impressive than running the table in the MWC? Which conference is more impressive to win? The answer to those questions should tell you what conference is better for UNT. At the very least, you would have had to beat Boise to win the MWC. That right there is reason to prefer a MWC invite over a CUSA invite.

If the eventual goal is to get into an AQ conference, the MWC is the place to be. The opportunity to play higher profile conference teams is there, not CUSA...

Edited January 16, 2011 by Yellow Snow

[wardly]

The first criteria when determining what conference is best for UNT is distance to other conference schools? CUSA definately has this going for it. That said, if the most defining reason for joining a conference is travel distance... maybe major conference football isn't for UNT in the first place.

Lemme ask you this... Lets say UNT joins CUSA and wins every game... has an undefeated season. Would that be more impressive than running the table in the MWC? Which conference is more impressive to win? The answer to those questions should tell you what conference is better for UNT. At the very least, you would have had to beat Boise to win the MWC. That right there is reason to prefer a MWC invite over a CUSA invite.

If the eventual goal is to get into an AQ conference, the MWC is the place to be. The opportunity to play higher profile conference teams is there, not CUSA...

i think the eventual goal is to get into a regional conference,not an aq conference. this is cusa or a combination of them,belt, and wac schools should a new "southwest conference" evolve. the mwc is not an aq conference,and with loss of tcu,byu, and utah will not be one.travel expenses and lack of exposure are killers for us in any western conference, plus our fans won't travel to monroe, let alone albuquerque.we need once again to take charge of the belt and then see what regional conference opportunities become available to us. but, in my opinion, we are not thinking aq at this point in time.

[Yellow Snow]

i think the eventual goal is to get into a regional conference,not an aq conference. this is cusa or a combination of them,belt, and wac schools should a new "southwest conference" evolve. the mwc is not an aq conference,and with loss of tcu,byu, and utah will not be one.travel expenses and lack of exposure are killers for us in any western conference, plus our fans won't travel to monroe, let alone albuquerque.we need once again to take charge of the belt and then see what regional conference opportunities become available to us. but, in my opinion, we are not thinking aq at this point in time.

I understand what you are saying. If UNT wants to be a regional school to keep costs down and be more friendly as far as fan travel goes, that's their perogative.

BUT... What is good for the fans isn't necessarily good for the school. These aren't mutually exclusive, but they certainly don't align all the time. Fans travelling to the games is trumped by playing in a more prestigous conference. Besides, fans don't travel well to away games in ANY conference... some do more than others, but to worry about that as a hinderance to moving up on the food chain is self limiting in my opinion.

As far as exposure goes... i'm not sure I understand where you are going with that. You have such fertile recruiting ground right in your own back yard, what more exposure do you need? Win in the MWC and recruits in TEXAS will want to play for UNT. You can win with Texans. It's not like you'd start recruiting Ohio or Kentucky if you joined CUSA, or in Idaho or Utah in the MWC. Your recruiting base will stay the same no matter what conference you are in. It's not like you are a non-regional recruiter in the SBC now. If Mac can get the better guys in your own backyard to sign with UNT you can win in ANY conference. That to me is more beneficial to the UNT athletics department and would make the fan base happier than going into a lesser conference so that fans can travel to away games easier.

This whole mongolian cluster boink of TV deals that drives the NCAA is certainly going to expand into on-line packages, streaming, etc. Worrying about conference "footprint" for TV deals will be obsolete soon. UNT will get plenty of exposure in the MWC when you are kicking ass and taking names. This would be a better scenario than being in CUSA or SBC and kicking ass there.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Yellow Snow

[Rudy]

Oh, well if we would lose all of our exposure, then I'm against the MWC. I'll hit 88 mph on the way down to TCU and warn them.

You'll never make it. I don't think 1955 TCU will care about the MWC.

[PlummMeanGreen]

I understand what you are saying. If UNT wants to be a regional school to keep costs down and be more friendly as far as fan travel goes, that's their perogative.

BUT... What is good for the fans isn't necessarily good for the school. These aren't mutually exclusive, but they certainly don't align all the time. Fans travelling to the games is trumped by playing in a more prestigous conference. Besides, fans don't travel well to away games in ANY conference... some do more than others, but to worry about that as a hinderance to moving up on the food chain is self limiting in my opinion.

As far as exposure goes... i'm not sure I understand where you are going with that. You have such fertile recruiting ground right in your own back yard, what more exposure do you need? Win in the MWC and recruits in TEXAS will want to play for UNT. You can win with Texans. It's not like you'd start recruiting Ohio or Kentucky if you joined CUSA, or in Idaho or Utah in the MWC. Your recruiting base will stay the same no matter what conference you are in. It's not like you are a non-regional recruiter in the SBC now. If Mac can get the better guys in your own backyard to sign with UNT you can win in ANY conference. That to me is more beneficial to the UNT athletics department and would make the fan base happier than going into a lesser conference so that fans can travel to away games easier.

This whole mongolian cluster boink of TV deals that drives the NCAA is certainly going to expand into on-line packages, streaming, etc. Worrying about conference "footprint" for TV deals will be obsolete soon. UNT will get plenty of exposure in the MWC when you are kicking ass and taking names. This would be a better scenario than being in CUSA or SBC and kicking ass there.

We would only wish you were the most honorable Mountain West Conference Commissioner, one Mr. Craig Thompson. Whoever you are and at any rate, you are preaching to a pretty sizeable choir. Now go over to the MWC board and try to win some converts for our cause!

GMG!

Edited January 17, 2011 by PlummMeanGreen

[shaft]

The first criteria when determining what conference is best for UNT is distance to other conference schools?

No, the first criteria is money. The guaranteed savings of lower travel costs (of CUSA or a 12 team SBC) out weighs the risk-reward of being in in a conference with higher travel costs and the occasional shot at some BCS cash (like the MWC or WAC).

[GTWT]

No, the first criteria is money.

The first criterion is the contribution that conference affiliation makes to the status of the university. Among the realistic possibilities, which conference puts our university in the best light? Hint - it's not the conference that includes Troy, ULM, & MTSU.