Tebowing at Fouts

[Mean Green 93-98]

It's not.

Do Muslims believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ?

[Green Mean]

Do Muslims believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ?

Muslims recognize Jesus Christ as a prophet. He's in the Koran. 'Allah' is NOT a 'different' God. 'Allah' just means God in the Arabic language. As far as what you see on TV from those super fanatical Muslims...that is not true Islam and unfortunately it gives us a really bad rap and perception to many. Moses is also recognized in the Koran and is considered a prophet.

[Coffee and TV]

So you are saying a Christian standing up for his beliefs is not as courageous?

How exactly does kneeling to thank god for your touchdown (yeah I'm sure God really gives a flying flip) standing up for your beliefs? And if it is, its not exactly like he's the first one to kneel after touchdown. He's maybe the....1,000th to do so. So no, I don't find it courageous that you do that when the majority of your fans are Christians of some sort.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Muslims recognize Jesus Christ as a prophet. He's in the Koran. 'Allah' is NOT a 'different' God. 'Allah' just means God in the Arabic language. As far as what you see on TV from those super fanatical Muslims...that is not true Islam and unfortunately it gives us a really bad rap and perception to many. Moses is also recognized in the Koran and is considered a prophet.

Recognizing someone as a prophet does not equal recognizing someone as Deity. Muslims do not recognize Jesus Christ as Deity (they firmly disavow it), Christians do, therefore the two groups do not worship the same God.

[Green P1]

Recognizing someone as a prophet does not equal recognizing someone as Deity. Muslims do not recognize Jesus Christ as Deity (they firmly disavow it), Christians do, therefore the two groups do not worship the same God.

Okay. So whats your point?

[Green Mean]

Recognizing someone as a prophet does not equal recognizing someone as Deity. Muslims do not recognize Jesus Christ as Deity (they firmly disavow it), Christians do, therefore the two groups do not worship the same God.

If I'm not mistaken you've stated that you're a minister for a living so perhaps regardless I'll most likely be talking to a wall anyways. My personal view is that these these groups/religions are all the same. At the end of the day they're all trying to get to the one peak of the mountain and each group are just happening to go a different route to get there. I believe in Jesus, Moses, Mohammad, Buddha, Hindu gods all the same way as I refuse to believe they're all that different or one is right and the other is wrong. They're all beautiful but the problem is how people interpret it can really eff things up. I've been and seen all sides of the equation so I know from personal experience that all these religions are a hell of a lot closer than people want to believe.

[FirefightnRick]

Front page of the Star Telegram this morning.

VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI issued pleas for peace to reign across the world during his traditional Christmas address Sunday, a call marred by Muslim extremists who bombed a Catholic church in Nigeria, striking after worshippers celebrated Mass

The assault on the Catholic church left 35 dead in Madalla, near the Nigerian capital. A failed bombing also occurred near a church in the city of Jos, followed by a shooting that killed a police officer. The blast came a year after a series of Christmas Eve bombs in Jos claimed by Islamist militants killed 32.

Rick

[Green P1]

Yea... People of all religions do terrible things.

Once again, see what Tebow has done to us?

[MeanGreenTexan]

If I'm not mistaken you've stated that you're a minister for a living so perhaps regardless I'll most likely be talking to a wall anyways. My personal view is that these these groups/religions are all the same. At the end of the day they're all trying to get to the one peak of the mountain and each group are just happening to go a different route to get there. I believe in Jesus, Moses, Mohammad, Buddha, Hindu gods all the same way as I refuse to believe they're all that different or one is right and the other is wrong. They're all beautiful but the problem is how people interpret it can really eff things up. I've been and seen all sides of the equation so I know from personal experience that all these religions are a hell of a lot closer than people want to believe.

Now that this is in the Eagle's Nest, I'll chime in once here, then hang up and listen.

Alot of people believe as you do. As a matter of fact, I'm sure if you press alot of Americans, they would come to this same conclusion... even ones who profess to be Christian/Muslim/Buddhist/any other religion.

The truth is, if you dig into any of the texts (Bible/Koran/Pali Canon/etc...), or inquire with a minister for each religion, you'll find this ideology to be out of the question: A purely man-made, secular idea. And, there are plenty of secular places of worship out there as well.

Jesus professes to be God incarnate. There aren't many others who also profess this. Muhammad does not, Buddha does not. None of the major religions have this caveat other than Christianity. To use the age-old term: Jesus is either a Lord, Liar, or Lunatic. That is a question for everyone to answer on their own.

A Christian's job (Mat. 28:19) is to share the Gospel with everyone. This is offensive to many people. Hence, either the Christian backs down and does not follow through on this command and is praised as tolerant by secular society, OR that Christian acts on this command and is disliked by secular society as being offensive/intolerant.

Now, don't get me wrong, there are MANY Christians who do this in a way that is overly offensive (i.e: the dude who preached fire-brimstone in the free speach area on campus when I was there '00 - '05), and there are "Christians" who are just flat-out, NOT CHRISTIAN. (i.e: Westboro Baptist Church, Robert Tilton, this is a long list...)

Tim Tebow is doing a fantastic job of following through on his command (He's not a fantastic QB though, and the option-style offense will definitely be exposed if they make it to the playoffs, IMHO). I agree with Kurt Warner's quote above, and I think St. Francis said it beter: "Share the Gospel always. Use words when necessary." Actions speak louder than words, correct? So as long as Tebow is not living a life contrary to what he's saying, then I think he's doing as Christ instructed him.

Now, as far as the whole planking/owling/Tebowing thing? I never got into that. Am I old? Oh no! But, if you whippersnappers are having fun doing it, then by all means...

[Mean Green 93-98]

If I'm not mistaken you've stated that you're a minister for a living so perhaps regardless I'll most likely be talking to a wall anyways. My personal view is that these these groups/religions are all the same. At the end of the day they're all trying to get to the one peak of the mountain and each group are just happening to go a different route to get there. I believe in Jesus, Moses, Mohammad, Buddha, Hindu gods all the same way as I refuse to believe they're all that different or one is right and the other is wrong. They're all beautiful but the problem is how people interpret it can really eff things up. I've been and seen all sides of the equation so I know from personal experience that all these religions are a hell of a lot closer than people want to believe.

I will agree that different religions share certain desires and goals. But the fact that their "routes are different" is nothing to shrug off. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by Me" (John 14:6). Jesus claimed to be the exclusive route to God and to eternal life. So while someone may believe he is on the road to God and eternal life, Jesus effectively said, "If you're not on My road, you're going the wrong way" (cf. Matt. 7:13-14).

Nothing personal, but I would also have to say that your view as a Muslim is not typical of Muslims. I've had some good Muslim friends in the past, and we would have good religious conversations (I'd have to travel a long way to find a Muslim where I live now). And they were convinced that it was blasphemy to say that Jesus is the Son of God or that Mohammed is not a prophet. And they certainly believed that one had to be a Muslim to be pleasing to the one they believed was God. While we obviously disagreed, I appreciated their honesty with me.

Logically it follows that if there is one God (a point on which I assume we agree), it follows that He alone holds the prerogative of setting the terms of access to Him. It does not lie with us to derive new and different ways to Him, but to discern which is the correct way.

Sorry to further derail the thread (if it was ever on the rails in the first place), but I thought you said some things that needed a response.

[SilverEagle]

I think their god is different from my God.

In the small town where I grew up, you used to hear that a lot. Especially from the Church of Christ. But you also heard it from every variety and/or brand of Baptist church that sat on every other corner of the town....and surrounding countryside.

"My God is different from your God" is also (sadly) good for business. And a very lucrative business it is.

Edited December 27, 2011 by SilverEagle

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

Recognizing someone as a prophet does not equal recognizing someone as Deity. Muslims do not recognize Jesus Christ as Deity (they firmly disavow it), Christians do, therefore the two groups do not worship the same God.

So that means the Jewish God is different from the Christian God?

[Green Mean]

I will agree that different religions share certain desires and goals. But the fact that their "routes are different" is nothing to shrug off. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by Me" (John 14:6). Jesus claimed to be the exclusive route to God and to eternal life. So while someone may believe he is on the road to God and eternal life, Jesus effectively said, "If you're not on My road, you're going the wrong way" (cf. Matt. 7:13-14).

Nothing personal, but I would also have to say that your view as a Muslim is not typical of Muslims. I've had some good Muslim friends in the past, and we would have good religious conversations (I'd have to travel a long way to find a Muslim where I live now). And they were convinced that it was blasphemy to say that Jesus is the Son of God or that Mohammed is not a prophet. And they certainly believed that one had to be a Muslim to be pleasing to the one they believed was God. While we obviously disagreed, I appreciated their honesty with me.

Logically it follows that if there is one God (a point on which I assume we agree), it follows that He alone holds the prerogative of setting the terms of access to Him. It does not lie with us to derive new and different ways to Him, but to discern which is the correct way.

Sorry to further derail the thread (if it was ever on the rails in the first place), but I thought you said some things that needed a response.

I understand what Jesus said...but one doesn't have to believe everything the book says...I don't believe everything in the Koran...other folks from other faiths don't believe everything either. In my opinion time and society evolves...these things were written/said at a time that circumstances probably dictated this type of bold sayings. That said the point I am trying to make is that there are a lot more similarities of the religions than one wants to believe. The claim that my god is different or better than your god...it is just something I personally cannot accept. And we're in a time now that there is so much information out there to be educated not only through literary avenues but to actually see first hand people of different faiths and see what great things each religion has to offer. At the end of the day we're all just humans.

You're right and to those Muslims that say and think that I think they're knuckleheads as well. There are a ton more Muslims that think like me as well as there are folks from other faiths that do the same.

Ultimately I am just trying my best to be a positive ambassador of my religion. While I'm no expert or scholar of Islam I do know that there are a lot of ignorance and preconceived notions about us(which is understandable) and if I can enlighten folks that don't know much about my faith or don't truly know Muslim people other than what you see on the TV then I try to take advantage of that opportunity and try my best to educate someone. We are fun loving peaceful people and like I said earlier in this thread that it is very unfortunate it is those douchebag extremist fanatics that give the whole religion and Muslim people a very bad name to us.

[Mean Green 93-98]

So that means the Jewish God is different from the Christian God?

Effectively, yes, if by "Jewish" you mean modern practicing Jews who deny the Deity of Christ.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Mean Green 93-98

[Green Mean]

Front page of the Star Telegram this morning.

VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI issued pleas for peace to reign across the world during his traditional Christmas address Sunday, a call marred by Muslim extremists who bombed a Catholic church in Nigeria, striking after worshippers celebrated Mass

The assault on the Catholic church left 35 dead in Madalla, near the Nigerian capital. A failed bombing also occurred near a church in the city of Jos, followed by a shooting that killed a police officer. The blast came a year after a series of Christmas Eve bombs in Jos claimed by Islamist militants killed 32.

Rick

Islamist are not true Muslims. These are the super duper extreme radicals. They're a disgrace and all need to die. Not really sure what your point was in posting these links.

[MeanGreenTexan]

So that means the Jewish God is different from the Christian God?

This is a great question.

For me, I believe He is one and the same. The Israeli God is the same one who's plan was to send Jesus into the world (Trinitarily, God the father.)

However, for some reason beyond my comprehension, His plan was for the Jewish nation to reject Jesus until a later time.

I believe Israel is still God's chosen people and at some point in the future, He will reconcile Himself with them through Jesus. In the meantime, I'm so glad His plan was to reach out to gentiles like me.

I'm no minister anywhere, so take my thoughts for what you will. I just love me some Jesus!

[MeanGreenTexan]

Islamist are not true Muslims. These are the super duper extreme radicals. They're a disgrace and all need to die. Not really sure what your point was in posting these links.

Totally agree. Extremism is cited all the time both Christian & Muslim...

Sadly, I think many Americans would belive that all Muslims have some extremism in them which is just not fair. I'm glad you're here to refute that thought.

[mattmartin817]

Just want to see what people think of this. Black athletes have been invoking god in interviews, post game, pre game, random interviews, etc for years and years, and people have always been quick to deride this. Now all the sudden this white kid writes John 3:16 on his eye black stickers and he's the second coming?

[UNT90]

Just want to see what people think of this. Black athletes have been invoking god in interviews, post game, pre game, random interviews, etc for years and years, and people have always been quick to deride this. Now all the sudden this white kid writes John 3:16 on his eye black stickers and he's the second coming?

Fixed.

Edited December 28, 2011 by UNT90

[Rudy]

Totally agree. Extremism is cited all the time both Christian & Muslim...

Sadly, I think many Americans would belive that all Muslims have some extremism in them which is just not fair. I'm glad you're here to refute that thought.

The Islamic extremist are typical of most vocal minorities of any group. They are so loud, that many think that is how the rest of that group thinks. That is why many Americans think that most, if not all Muslims are Islamic extremists.

Just want to see what people think of this. Black athletes have been invoking god in interviews, post game, pre game, random interviews, etc for years and years, and people have always been quick to deride this. Now all the sudden this white kid writes John 3:16 on his eye black stickers and he's the second coming?

I think that is pure crap. Athletes of all races invoke God, but it is how they carry themselves which dictate whether or not people people belive them. I would be quicker to believe Robert Griffin or Tim Tebow are Christians faster than Mike Vick or Matt Jones.

[FirefightnRick]

Islamist are not true Muslims. These are the super duper extreme radicals. They're a disgrace and all need to die. Not really sure what your point was in posting these links.

Your the one that mentioned the muslim faith here trying to parallel it with all the others. I simply posted the very next thing that was splattered on the front page of the paper the next day. I'm sure that religion has it's finer points. Unfortunately for the non violent followers, it's finer points isn't what it's well known for.

Rick

[Green Mean]

Your the one that mentioned the muslim faith here trying to parallel it with all the others. I simply posted the very next thing that was splattered on the front page of the paper the next day. I'm sure that religion has it's finer points. Unfortunately for the non violent followers, it's finer points isn't what it's well known for.

Rick

Yeah I'm sure you didn't have any clear agenda posting those links. Those radicals are the exceptions...they're not the norm or the rule.

[FirefightnRick]

Those radicals are the exceptions...they're not the norm or the rule.

That's great that you think so.

Rick

[Green Mean]

That's great that you think so.

Rick

I don't think so. I know so.

[FirefightnRick]

I don't think so. I know so.

That's good, too.

Rick