Unschooling. Anyone Else Heard Of This Idiocy?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Because we've got two little ones, my wife picks up just about every parenting magazine known to man...and then doesn't read them. Anyway, I picked up one and read an article about idiots who pull their kids out of school to "homeschool" them, yet don't have any set curriculum for them. They just do what they want. In the particular article I read, the lady said when her son was five years old and wanted to shut himself in his bedroom all day and play video games, that was fine.

Not surprisingly, the lady declined to tell what her kids were now doing with their lives (all were "graduated" and out of the house). There was a picture of them - face piercings, rubberbanded goatees and all. She did admit that her kids struggled to meet the demands of workplaces and relationships; however, she blamed not her kids, but society for being so narrow-minded.

I have misgivings, in general, about homeschooling. I know it's great for many people. But, to me, you need to show that your kids are learning at a rate and pace that is equivalent to kids at regular school. And, yes, I know that most do.

However, I don't even see how this "unschooling" can be legal. How can these people be getting away with it is beyond me. To me, it's a form of neglect not to prepare your kids for life beyond your doorway. If a parent doesn't have a duty to have their kids educated, then why are their truancy laws? If a kid wanders out of school, why would it matter?

The answer is, of course, it does matter. For their own safety and the good of their future, kids are required to be at school and learn.

Anyway, here's a whole website on the lunacy: http://www.unschooling.com/index.shtml

Especially, read this essay by an idiot dad who isn't bothered by the fact that his 8-year old can't read yet: http://www.unschooling.com/library/essays/our8yearold.shtml

[meangreendork]

Lord.

Okay, homeschooling can be fine and even better for many kids. My experience with homeschooled kids is that even if they met academics, they were often socially awkward. But to the point - that website scares me. Even if these kids are smarter than other kids, they still need to hit the basics...like reading. That's not an academic skill, that's a life skill. I've only ever met one illiterate person in my life and really, I have no doubt his inability to read has a lot to do with his place in the world.

[LongJim]

I have misgivings, in general, about homeschooling. I know it's great for many people. But, to me, you need to show that your kids are learning at a rate and pace that is equivalent to kids at regular school. And, yes, I know that most do.

That's an interesting website. What (IMO) many parents fail to realize is that school in an atmosphere of interaction with one's peers, is not solely about memorization or the "three r's". It's about interaction with the world. It's about sharing and listening to opinions and languages, and inflections, and attitudes of people other or different than yourself, and how YOU react to these things. It's about FUNCTIONING as a human. It's also (hopefully, still) about learning diligence. Learning self-discipline. Learning self-restraint. Learning about deadlines.

I have relatives who home-schooled their kids. To their credit, the curriculum was approved, and exams were given strictly and rigorously. Their mom then put the kids into public HS when they were old enough, and while they were small, gave them plenty of interaction outside of 'class' with their peers. These two events, I believe, helped develop their social skills to where they needed to be to function, but they did find there was a bit of an initial shock when they first entered HS.

The imbeciles at this website look to be taking a different tack. Hey, at least he's got chess.

Edited April 9, 2009 by LongJim

[UNT90]

I don't see why you would want to rob your child of the valuable experience of learning social interaction with thier peers (kids thier own age).

I'm against home schooling, but I am biased. Like anything, this can be used for truely evil purposes. The main one is a parent who wants hide the fact that thier child is being abused. Schools are required by law to report any injury that is suspicious for abuse to the appropriate authority. Abusive parents know this, hence "home schooling" is an easy way to avoid the abuse being discovered and a means to extend the control over the child. I am talking all forms of abuse.

I'm sure there are very good parents that home school thier child very appropriately, but the flip side is also very prevalent.

[oldguystudent]

There are a lot of homeschoolers in Frisco with the main motivation being the lack of daily Jesus in public school. The kids learn their three r's and socialize among their own (sizable) population regularly. The kids I've seen that are around 20 who've recently come out of that background are generally well read and capable of all the school subjects. They do, however, tend to see the world through very rose colored glasses, and have difficulty navigating through some outside world social situations. I can relate, being the product of a reclusive Christian boarding school. When I got to college, I was quite literally scared for my life as I had been ingrained with the notion that the 17,000 students on campus who were not part of my religion were all agents of the Devil trying to tempt me into sin. Thank God, they succeeded brilliantly!

Now then, onto this unschooling thing. From the FAQs:

Geometry can be found in quilt making, algebra in painting a room. Shifting perspectives, from textbooks to the real world is sometimes difficult, but math that is actually used is math truly learned.

Thatsa nice. Your kids can see shapes in a quilt. Next time I need an architect, I'll be sure to hire one of them. They'll have no idea how to engineer a building that will remain standing for 15 minutes, but it'll be darn pretty!

Have you ever described 'red' to a person who is color blind?

Yes. I put a Bic lighter under his palm.

Read, play, sing, dance, grow things, write. All of these things and more are things unschoolers do. We do them because they interest us and bring us joy or because they help us accomplish our dreams.

Well, that sounds great for pre-school. I'll be sure to note on your resume that you have a rigorous background of singing and dancing. I might need an unpaid understudy at the community theater someday.

[LongJim]

Read, play, sing, dance, grow things, write. All of these things and more are things unschoolers do. We do them because they interest us and bring us joy or because they help us accomplish our dreams.

Yes, these skills are essential for a career in:

[Censored by Laurie]

Yes, these skills are essential for a career in:

That was a fun protest. I'm on the far right.

[GBarksdale]

They just do what they want. In the particular article I read, the lady said when her son was five years old and wanted to shut himself in his bedroom all day and play video games, that was fine.

Not surprisingly, the lady declined to tell what her kids were now doing with their lives (all were "graduated" and out of the house). There was a picture of them - face piercings, rubberbanded goatees and all. She did admit that her kids struggled to meet the demands of workplaces and relationships; however, she blamed not her kids, but society for being so narrow-minded.

We'll always need someone to dig ditches. Kinda equals out.

[LongJim]

We'll always need someone to dig ditches. Kinda equals out.

[UNT90]

That was a fun protest. I'm on the far right.

When did you escape the Cult?

[Shuke-D]

I'm on the far right.

Why do I have the feeling this is the first and last time you will ever type that?

[FirefightnRick]

Ask any public school counselor, who's responsibility it is to test and place the incoming transfer students into an appropriate level curriculum and what they think of the pathetic attempts of people trying to homeschool their kids. I promise you'll get an earfull. I usually get to hear about it at home,.............about 4 nights a week.

Rick

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

There are a lot of homeschoolers in Frisco with the main motivation being the lack of daily Jesus in public school. The kids learn their three r's and socialize among their own (sizable) population regularly. The kids I've seen that are around 20 who've recently come out of that background are generally well read and capable of all the school subjects. They do, however, tend to see the world through very rose colored glasses, and have difficulty navigating through some outside world social situations. I can relate, being the product of a reclusive Christian boarding school. When I got to college, I was quite literally scared for my life as I had been ingrained with the notion that the 17,000 students on campus who were not part of my religion were all agents of the Devil trying to tempt me into sin. Thank God, they succeeded brilliantly!

Now then, onto this unschooling thing. From the FAQs:

Thatsa nice. Your kids can see shapes in a quilt. Next time I need an architect, I'll be sure to hire one of them. They'll have no idea how to engineer a building that will remain standing for 15 minutes, but it'll be darn pretty!

Yes. I put a Bic lighter under his palm.

Well, that sounds great for pre-school. I'll be sure to note on your resume that you have a rigorous background of singing and dancing. I might need an unpaid understudy at the community theater someday.

--- Had a few in my college classes... can't remember passing a one of them... their background was awful. Re: private school, some are extremely good and some schools are almost as bad as home school. Either way they usually catch up quickly since they are accustomed to structure. Look this boy up in 20+ years and check on him then.. Unfortunately his life may be totally screwed by then.

--- There are some cases home school makes sense... usually a kid with physical, social, or maybe some emotional problems. I laugh at some of these kids doing extremely well on national events such as "spelling bees". If you check on the situation you likely will find that is about all the kid knows well. We have one odd school here (almost a home school) that does really well in some sports.. again they should considering how much they spend on it and not in a typical classroom.

[Mean Green 93-98]

It is thoroughly asinine to lump all homeschoolers in with this kind of mess. We homeschool our children, and I will put up our kids against pretty much any their age in the local public schools. We use a structured curriculum, they get far more one-on-one interaction with the teacher, and there is no chance they will fall between the cracks. Sure, homeschooling has its disadvantages, but those pretty well balance out if you have committed parents.

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

That was a fun protest. I'm on the far right.

Was that a Free Quoner/Tasty/Green P1 protest a last weekend?

[Coffee and TV]

That was a fun protest. I'm on the far right.

hippie.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

It is thoroughly asinine to lump all homeschoolers in with this kind of mess. We homeschool our children, and I will put up our kids against pretty much any their age in the local public schools. We use a structured curriculum, they get far more one-on-one interaction with the teacher, and there is no chance they will fall between the cracks. Sure, homeschooling has its disadvantages, but those pretty well balance out if you have committed parents.

---Good Luck.. you must be better than most. What I am discussing are those that finish High School there... not so much younger kids... which often have parents capable of teaching that content. My wife was shaking her heard about one she received in a Latin class (Latin II). Neither parent had taken Latin and the poor kid thought she knew something... The wife said she could not have passed anything beyond first six weeks of Latin I ..and that is likely a stretch. I suppose it is possible but none have walked into my colllege math class and passed (that I know of).. Most that I have seen also have lousy social skills and don't fit in too well...... which working in America usually requires. Again good luck... may you do better than most.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

It is thoroughly asinine to lump all homeschoolers in with this kind of mess. We homeschool our children, and I will put up our kids against pretty much any their age in the local public schools. We use a structured curriculum, they get far more one-on-one interaction with the teacher, and there is no chance they will fall between the cracks. Sure, homeschooling has its disadvantages, but those pretty well balance out if you have committed parents.

You're doing it the way is should be done. This article is about people who use the excuse of homeschooling to "unschool" their children. You're not unschooling them.

I guess the only reason I'm not on board with homeschooling is I live in Frisco. I'd probably be all for it if I lived in Dallas. The Frisco schools are fine, for the most part. Where we live, it's as close to growing up in a north Dallas suburb in the 70s you'll get - safe, vast majority two-parent homes, involved parents helping the school any way they can, etc.

[oldguystudent]

We do have pretty amazing schools in Frisco.

[eulessismore]

That was a fun protest. I'm on the far right.

This validates my theory that if you go far enough right, you meet up with those coming from the far left.

[FirefightnRick]

It is thoroughly asinine to lump all homeschoolers in with this kind of mess. We homeschool our children, and I will put up our kids against pretty much any their age in the local public schools. We use a structured curriculum, they get far more one-on-one interaction with the teacher, and there is no chance they will fall between the cracks. Sure, homeschooling has its disadvantages, but those pretty well balance out if you have committed parents.

I apologize, certainly did not mean for it to sound like I was lumping all the good with the bad. There are plenty of competent homeschoolers across this country, for sure. But it sounds like, from my family's perspective, and there are several educators in my family, including three counselors, a multitude of teachers and one superintendant, that the odds do not favor successfull homeschooling. With that, I called the wife this morning to simply ask, what has been the average in her own school the past 10 years, if she had to guess to the kids who were homeschooled and transferred in who were a mess to the kids who were also homeschooled and transferred in and were on level where they were suppose to be, educationally and socially and she said probably 20 to 1 at best. Take that for what it's worth?

Rick

Edited April 10, 2009 by FirefightnRick

[oldguystudent]

Completely off topic.

Rick,

You out there fighting those grass fires?

[cwb]

You mean the grass fire in that bus?

[Mean Green 93-98]

---Good Luck.. you must be better than most. What I am discussing are those that finish High School there... not so much younger kids... which often have parents capable of teaching that content. My wife was shaking her heard about one she received in a Latin class (Latin II). Neither parent had taken Latin and the poor kid thought she knew something... The wife said she could not have passed anything beyond first six weeks of Latin I ..and that is likely a stretch. I suppose it is possible but none have walked into my colllege math class and passed (that I know of).. Most that I have seen also have lousy social skills and don't fit in too well...... which working in America usually requires. Again good luck... may you do better than most.

I apologize, certainly did not mean for it to sound like I was lumping all the good with the bad. There are plenty of competent homeschoolers across this country, for sure. But it sounds like, from my family's perspective, and there are several educators in my family, including three counselors, a multitude of teachers and one superintendant, that the odds do not favor successfull homeschooling. With that, I called the wife this morning to simply ask, what has been the average in her own school the past 10 years, if she had to guess to the kids who were homeschooled and transferred in who were a mess to the kids who were also homeschooled and transferred in and were on level where they were suppose to be, educationally and socially and she said probably 20 to 1 at best. Take that for what it's worth?

Rick

I understand what you are saying based on what you have seen and heard. The statistics may not favor homeschooling. 20-1 sounds extremely high to me, but I do not doubt that your wife has seen those kind of statistics where she is. But successful homeschooling (or any kind of schooling) is not about statistics. Parents choose to keep their children out of/take them out of public school for all sorts of different reasons. Many parents choose to take them out of public school because they are having significant problems academically/behaviorally/socially. Many of those same parents find they are unable to do any better with those kids than the public schools did, so they send them back. But the parents who do have success correcting their children's problems are more likely to keep homeschooling them. This would skew the statistics when someone says, "Homeschooled children who transfer into public schools are at a lower level." Also, there are parents who really have no idea what they are getting into. Age 5 rolls around, and mothers just can't bear to let their little darlings be away from them all day long. So when do those mothers finally send their children to public schools? Sometime after they realize they are in way over their heads. So again, those numbers are going to be skewed against homeschoolers. There are other parents who take their children out of public schools for silly reasons--teacher gave them a bad grade, coach wouldn't let them play. The parents have no idea or plan as far as educating their children.

SE-66, I do not question what you have observed, but I assume your math class must be high level and fairly challenging? I personally got no further in high school than freshman algebra (in which I was a major goof-off) and nine years later waltzed into my North Texas college algebra class and got an A. Well, I probably had to work a little harder than some, but you get my point. Not to say we would let our children get through high school without getting further than high school algebra, but it is not that hard to jump into college level mathematics.

Abraham Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt were effectively homeschooled, as have been countless other achievers. Homeschooling has been around far longer than public schooling, and our society was not headed for destruction before public schools came along. I am not saying everybody should homeschool--I believe many who currently homeschool shouldn't. But it's not really a statistical crapshoot. It's about having a plan and the commitment to stick to that plan, yet having the ability to adapt without compromising goals.

[CaribbeanGreen]

Why do I have the feeling this is the first and last time you will ever type that?

un-der-rate-ted.... clap clap clap clap clap....