MGB: Sunday night recruiting tidbit

[Cerebus]

7 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I wonder if it really is this bad?   

 

 

 

[UNT90]

Just now, MeanGreen_MBA said:

@GTWT, the Grinch was loosely patterned after 90....  He will get his heart as soon as UNT wins The C in the next year or 2....

With these types of recruiting classes, I'll be on that snowy mountaintop for the next 10 years, sneaking into Dentonville to watch the carnage 6 times a year.

[UNTLifer]

What in the world has happened to Marshall?

[SilverEagle]

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

Then I'll take credit for saying it, because it's true.

One of my psychology professors (back in 1974) told our class that the aforementioned quote about insanity is actually describing "neurotic" behavior. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/theory-knowledge/201211/when-are-you-neurotic

Quote

"Neurotic habits are automatic or ritualized patterns of overt behavior that people engage in to alleviate anxiety and provide a sense of familiar security." The problem is that, carried out over the long term, the habitual patterns are maladaptive. A classic example is the anxious drinker. Stressed all day, riddled with achievement and relational anxieties, alcohol becomes a short term, medicating balm. Unfortunately over time, it comes with significant costs (hangovers, weight gain, health problems, etc). Binging and purging, ritualistic ordering or cleaning, nail biting or trichotillomania (hair pulling) are all common examples of neurotic, maladaptive habits."

So, what I'm fond of saying is that the behavior in question is actually "neurotic" behavior, but it drives everyone else around them crazy.

 

 

[GrandGreen]

Well UTSA has 17 3 stars and NT has 3 3 stars, that is not getting beat that is not even being in the race.   As far as last minute miracles, NT is just has likely to lose a 3 star as gain one.  

Frankly, it never entered my mind that this staff would be so inept at recruiting against peer teams.  As far as this staff being better at developing players than others, there is nothing much to base that on.   My bet is that teams that are killing NT in recruiting will more than likely do it in overall coaching also.   

Recruiting is not going to get better with age.  More success will spawn better recruiting, but where is the talent going to come from; to produce those wins.   NT is going to have to hit on an extremely high percentage of borderline recruits to move this program forward.   

[Ben Gooding]

1 hour ago, GTWT said:

I'll be interested in who we sign on Wednesday.  It won't matter though what I think about our signees.  Like nearly everyone on this board I am ignorant about college athletics.  None of us will know whether this class was successful for three, four, or even five years.  At that time it won't matter whether a kid has 4 stars or 5 offers from UT, Alabama, & the ilk.   In the meantime I'll be rooting for each and everyone of the kids that sign with my school.

I want to apologize to @Cerebus for breaking my self imposed ban due to a bet that I lost. I can't stomach some of these posts. 

This above post is hot damn garbage. We know what we are getting. We have been knowing what we are getting. We see it every February followed by subpar football the following Fall...year after year. If you have a bottom of the barrel ranking in recruiting, you will not be successful. The proof is littered in countless studies, articles, research, etc. Seth Littrell is not doing what he was hired to do. A big part of taking on the HC duties is recruiting. Some coaches have a niche for being able to go in and close the deal. Seth Littrell has all but proven he can't do that. If he can't do that, he can't win here (or anywhere). We can all say the same quotes from every other February, but until it rings true it's just a self fulfilled antidote to make ourselves feel better about how bad our recruiting situation really is and has been. 

*The amount of blue shirts being handed out this class is alarming. It all sets us up for another down year in recruiting. It's rare that a blue shirt AT UNT hits, let alone the 6-7-8 we are bringing on in one cycle. We will have another year with down numbers in recruiting and that lessens the odds of being able to beat out programs to land quality talent within this program. It's a bad situation to be in and it's a self imposed situation that Littrell is putting himself and this program in. The future is currently having a dark cloud move over it, unfortunately. 

*To pack some more salt into the wound...Marshall, Rice, and UTEP only have 11, 14, and 12 committed recruits. Unless we pull some rabbits out on NSD, two of those programs will in fact pass us and put us at next to last in recruiting being only ahead of UTEP (Both Rice and Marshall have a higher avg. composite score per recruit. So if they continue doing just what they are and round out their class, they will almost definitely pass us). 

*To add, Seth Littrell dismissed away what was arguably one of our better recruiters, specifically in the East Texas region. It makes you scratch your head. 

Bottom line...We aren't getting it done. And it will in fact show up during at least the next two Falls. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Ben Gooding

[UNT90]

38 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Well UTSA has 17 3 stars and NT has 3 3 stars, that is not getting beat that is not even being in the race.   As far as last minute miracles, NT is just has likely to lose a 3 star as gain one.  

Frankly, it never entered my mind that this staff would be so inept at recruiting against peer teams.  As far as this staff being better at developing players than others, there is nothing much to base that on.   My bet is that teams that are killing NT in recruiting will more than likely do it in overall coaching also.   

Recruiting is not going to get better with age.  More success will spawn better recruiting, but where is the talent going to come from; to produce those wins.   NT is going to have to hit on an extremely high percentage of borderline recruits to move this program forward.   

My concern with a Littrell hire all along was that he had never worked at a program under the P5 level. But, then again, a lot of the staff that recruits has. 

Maddening.

Perplexing. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by UNT90

[FirefightnRick]

1 hour ago, SilverEagle said:

One of my psychology professors (back in 1974) told our class that the aforementioned quote about insanity is actually describing "neurotic" behavior. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/theory-knowledge/201211/when-are-you-neurotic

"Neurotic habits are automatic or ritualized patterns of overt behavior that people engage in to alleviate anxiety and provide a sense of familiar security." The problem is that, carried out over the long term, the habitual patterns are maladaptive. A classic example is the anxious drinker. Stressed all day, riddled with achievement and relational anxieties, alcohol becomes a short term, medicating balm. Unfortunately over time, it comes with significant costs (hangovers, weight gain, health problems, etc). Binging and purging, ritualistic ordering or cleaning, throwing deep on 3rd or 4th and inches and never using a play from under center...EVER!!!!, nail biting or trichotillomania (hair pulling) are all common examples of neurotic, maladaptive habits."

So, what I'm fond of saying is that the behavior in question is actually "neurotic" behavior, but it drives everyone else around them crazy.

 

 

FIFY.

 

 

Rick

Edited January 30, 2017 by FirefightnRick

[GTWT]

1 hour ago, Ben Gooding said:

Seth Littrell has all but proven he can't do that. If he can't do that, he can't win here (or anywhere).

 

I have no idea whether Coach Littrell is the next Hayden Fry but I am willing to give him more than one season (a season in which his team showed impressive improvement over the year before) to prove himself. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by GTWT

[outoftown]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

What in the world has happened to Marshall?

Three things:

a) I think this is a small class for Marshall for some reason.

b) Their coach dismissed a lot of players in the last two seasons without really saying why. It seems players don't quite trust that kind of coach anymore as rumors spread back to high schools about him being a hard ass.

c) Marshall recruits a decent bit in Florida. Florida has been swamped with new coaches who are great recuiters this season and an important avenue to Marshall has essentially closed

Edited January 30, 2017 by outoftown

[Ben Gooding]

6 minutes ago, GTWT said:

I have no idea whether Coach Littrell is the next Hayden Frye but I am willing to give him more than one season (a season in which his team showed impressive improvement over the year before) to prove himself. 

Program turnarounds stimulates from new coaching hires paired with highly regarded classes shortly thereafter. They are synonymous with one another when fledgling programs get turned around. Fleck at WMU, Matt Campbell at Toledo, Rhule at Temple, Taggart at USF, Strong at Louisville (pre-P5), etc. It is what it is. Our momentum is slowing down and recruiting is the reason why. 

[keith]

4 hours ago, UNT90 said:

This. Always the same people. What's the definition of insanity per Einstein? Definitely applies here. 

This is a bad, bad sign for this staff going forward. A staff can either recruit or they can't. UNT is (sadly) coming off one of their better seasons the past 12 years and so far hasn't been able to recruit better than a mid-tier Sun Belt member. I doubt this staff does much better next year, no matter what happens on the field. You either can or you can't. UTSA's identically new staff has proven they can, and will be playing for conference titles down the road.

Maybe there are huge surprises over the next 3 days that turn this class around. Absent those surprises, this is one of the worst recruiting classes (considering the circumstances) in the past 12 years.

Not what should be expected for a "savior" coach.

 

 

 

Mid-tier?  Currently we would be 9th out of 11.

[outoftown]

Actually I am starting to think we will give out straight up schollies to 3-4 of the players we were gonna give blueshirts to. The reason is simple: You give out blueshirts so you can recruit more players this season by having them count for 18'. But as we are not getting enough quality players to fill our limited slots this season, it makes more sense to take potential blueshirts and count them to this class, so you can get closer to the full 25 next season. Still it is a bad sign if you have to start giving immeadiate ships to potential blue shirts because you don't manage to fill the class.

Edited January 30, 2017 by outoftown

[BillySee58]

1 hour ago, UNT90 said:

Billy compared it to McCarney's 2012 class. That's bad. I mean, unless there is a series of miracles in the next 3 days.

I think basketball just exasperates the feeling of "can't UNT just get one thing right one time?!?! Ever?!?!"

No I didn't. I was responding to a post that Mccarney should not have coached after his stroke and that the stroke cast a dark cloud and affected his performance. I pointed out that his 2012 class was his worst in terms of offer list and ended up being his worst on the field, and it happened before the stroke.

This class is stacking up a lot like the 2011 class. Also not a great one, though.

[UNT90]

1 minute ago, keith said:

Mid-tier?  Currently we would be 9th out of 11.

Wow.

Thanks. Now I need to hide my gun...

1 minute ago, BillySee58 said:

No I didn't. I was responding to a post that Mccarney should not have coached after his stroke and that the stroke cast a dark cloud and affected his performance. I pointed out that his 2012 class was his worst in terms of offer list and ended up being his worst on the field, and it happened before the stroke.

This class is stacking up a lot like the 2011 class. Also not a great one, though.

Pardon my misuse of a recruiting class. ?

[Eagle-96]

4 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

This class is stacking up a lot like the 2011 class. Also not a great one, though.

So the class was ranked 98th in 2012 and 106th in 2011. That makes me feel better.

[GrandGreen]

13 minutes ago, GTWT said:

I have no idea whether Coach Littrell is the next Hayden Frye but I am willing to give him more than one season (a season in which his team showed impressive improvement over the year before) to prove himself. 

Funny comparison, Fry was easily the best recruiter at NT football ever.   He brought in talent and built NT into a winner.   

Not sure who you think is unwilling to give Littrell another year.  In fact, I suspect he will have at least 3 more years to turnaround this program no matter what happens.  

Littrell is young and hopefully can substantially upgrade his recruiting.  If this does not happen, he will most likely be back being a good assistant coach somewhere.    

 

[GTWT]

10 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

 

Not sure who you think is unwilling to give Littrell another year.

 

Actually, it was B. Gooding who said, "Seth Littrell has all but proven he can't do that. If he can't do that, he can't win here (or anywhere)."   Sounds like Mr. Gooding has made up his mind about Coach Littrell after a single year.  Of course, Ben isn't typical.

I think part of the reason this discussion bothers me so much is that it reminds me of the foolishness that this board spewed at Coach Dickey.  Even after 4 bowls and 4 Coach of the Year awards there were some who thought he ran too many draws and ought to be fired.

Edited January 30, 2017 by GTWT

[TreeFiddy]

I am prepared to be underwhelmed on signing day.  However, I am holding out hope that the staff will sign a few William Johnson/Raveon Hoston type guys that are high talent players, but still need to qualify.  By having players willing to blue shirt, we build a little bit of a safety net.  If the late qualifiers don't qualify then convert the blue shirts to regular schollies.  If the late qualifiers do qualify then use the blue shirt approach as planned.

Keep in mind 2/1 is the first day recruits can sign, not the last, so we may see a few trickle in over the weeks after NSD once the dust settles and we are able to see who is still available.

[wardly]

 

We stand to finish 11th in recruiting in a 14 team conference. With a composite rating of 100.90, we would be 7th in the MWC,8th in the MAC,8th in the SBC, and next to last in the AAC.You just can't put enough lipstick on this pig to make it acceptable. If Baker and Littrell stand up before alumni on Wednesday night at Stadium Club and say they are pleased with their first recruiting class[which I bet they do], then we have a serious problem.I doubt I will attend as my bullshit meter is at an all time high.

[Ben Gooding]

14 minutes ago, GTWT said:

Actually, it was B. Gooding who said, "Seth Littrell has all but proven he can't do that. If he can't do that, he can't win here (or anywhere)."   Sounds like Mr. Gooding has made up his mind about Coach Littrell after a single year.  Of course, Ben isn't typical.

I think part of the reason this discussion bothers me so much is that it reminds me of the foolishness that this board spewed at Coach Dickey.  Even after 4 bowls and 4 Coach of the Year awards there were some who thought he ran too many draws and ought to be fired.

Hence the IF. Nevertheless, nothing whatsoever tells me he can. But evidence points to that he cannot. Please dispute. 

[GreenMachine]

15 minutes ago, wardly said:

 

We stand to finish 11th in recruiting in a 14 team conference. With a composite rating of 100.90, we would be 7th in the MWC,8th in the MAC,8th in the SBC, and next to last in the AAC.You just can't put enough lipstick on this pig to make it acceptable. If Baker and Littrell stand up before alumni on Wednesday night at Stadium Club and say they are pleased with their first recruiting class[which I bet they do], then we have a serious problem.I doubt I will attend as my bullshit meter is at an all time high.

Do you think any coach or AD would stand up and say they were disappointed in the young men coming into the program? 

[Eagle-96]

20 minutes ago, TreeFiddy said:

I am prepared to be underwhelmed on signing day.  However, I am holding out hope that the staff will sign a few William Johnson/Raveon Hoston type guys that are high talent players, but still need to qualify.  By having players willing to blue shirt, we build a little bit of a safety net.  If the late qualifiers don't qualify then convert the blue shirts to regular schollies.  If the late qualifiers do qualify then use the blue shirt approach as planned.

Keep in mind 2/1 is the first day recruits can sign, not the last, so we may see a few trickle in over the weeks after NSD once the dust settles and we are able to see who is still available.

Why is that a good thing? Neither of those players ever set foot on a football field for us. You might as well say it would be great to sign Superman because he will play as many games for UNT as those two.

[GTWT]

26 minutes ago, Ben Gooding said:

Hence the IF. Nevertheless, nothing whatsoever tells me he can. But evidence points to that he cannot. Please dispute. 

The 'if' qualifies the second sentence, not the first.

[MeanGreenHoops]

1 hour ago, GTWT said:

I have no idea whether Coach Littrell is the next Hayden Fry but I am willing to give him more than one season (a season in which his team showed impressive improvement over the year before) to prove himself. 

Isn't recruiting basically sales? If you aren't a good salesman, what makes the 3rd or 4th year of trying any different?

We'll see Wednesday how it all turns out. So far it doesn't look good. It's good most on here are acknowledging that, although I get it's understandably depressing to the always optimistic fan.

The fact that Benford is still here shows that so far we don't show a commitment to athletics. That may be the one thing that Littrell or any coach we'd hired cannot overcome.