MGB breaking news -- UNT lands high school QB

[Graddean]

Before we say "Nerer at UNT", how many offers did Patrick Cobbs have?

[UNT90]

52 minutes ago, foutsrouts said:

While on the subject, five foot nine and slender Doug Flutie had zero D1 offers until two commits backed out on BC at the last second, and they gave their last available scholly to local boy Flutie. These things do happen occasionally.

This is the ultimate unicorn argument. Flute threw for almost 100,000 yards. As a pro. Played 20 years in the USFL, NFL, and CFL. His CFL numbers are freaking nuts and he is in their hall of fame. He was an NFL pro bowl QB.

He IS the unicorn.

[foutsrouts]

7 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

We all could pick out the exceptions. When was the last time UNT had one of those? And again, the problem isn't the height, the problem is zero other FBS offers.

I didn't expect Littrell to light the world on fire this class, but I expected better than what has been done SO FAR. 

So if Okie State turned their preferred walk on offer into a scholly offer tomorrow, and he turned that scholly offer down because he wanted a higher probability of PT at NT, would that suddenly make everything alright? I do agree with your last sentence, but as SilverEagle stated I'm also willing to wait a week before passing judgement.

4 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

This is the ultimate unicorn argument. Flute threw for almost 100,000 yards. As a pro. Played 20 years in the USFL, NFL, and CFL. His CFL numbers are freaking nuts and he is in their hall of fame. He was an NFL pro bowl QB.

He IS the unicorn.

Since we're only concerned with college unicorns here, there would be no problem finding dozens. No one says the guy is going to the NFL.

[BillySee58]

8 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

This is the ultimate unicorn argument. Flute threw for almost 100,000 yards. As a pro. Played 20 years in the USFL, NFL, and CFL. His CFL numbers are freaking nuts and he is in their hall of fame. He was an NFL pro bowl QB.

He IS the unicorn.

I'll save everyone else the time. Here's a slideshow of 10 short QBs who played in the NFL.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/photos/gallery/_/id/8395099/version/mobile/short-quarterbacks

They tried to make one for short QBs who didn't make the NFL, but their server wasn't large enough.

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2016 by BillySee58

[foutsrouts]

20 minutes ago, Graddean said:

Before we say "Nerer at UNT", how many offers did Patrick Cobbs have?

Casey Fitzgerald turned into an excellent college receiver that nobody wanted either. Booger didn't exactly have his mailbox stuffed with D1A offers himself. The rags to "riches" high school to college story is far from unheard of, and any pro football success for NT players after college is just gravy as far as I'm concerned.

Edited January 27, 2016 by foutsrouts

[UNT90]

11 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

I'll save everyone else the time. Here's a slideshow of 10 short QBs who played in the NFL.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/photos/gallery/_/id/8395099/version/mobile/short-quarterbacks

They tried to make one for short QBs who didn't make the NFL, but their server wasn't large enough.

 

 

 

Point was Flutie's outrageous pro numbers.

OUTRAGEOUS. 

He IS the unicorn. 

17 minutes ago, foutsrouts said:

Casey Fitzgerald turned into an excellent college receiver that nobody wanted either. Booger didn't exactly have his mailbox stuffed with D1A offers himself. The rags to "riches" high school to college story is far from unheard of, and any pro football success for NT players after college is just gravy as far as I'm concerned.

Except none of those guys is an undersized QB with no other offers.

I really really really really hope you guys are right, but history and logic tell me the odds are... Very very long.

[NT93]

This thread basically shows the personalities and mindsets of the membership here.  Some are "glass half full" kind of guys and others are "glass half empty." 

I think the bottom line is that this kid is a stud QB at a small school in Oklahoma that has everything but the size to be a great QB.  Would he be anyone's first choice?  Of course not.  Will he ever play a down for UNT?  Who knows.  Have there ever been other guys who had everything but size that ended up being great?  Of course.  Have there ever been guys who had everything but size who ended up doing nothing?  Of course.

My point being that every argument made for or against the kid can be easily countered depending on your perspective.

26 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

I really really really really hope you guys are right, but history and logic tell me the odds are... Very very long.

If we're all just being honest with ourselves, this is the truth about this signing.

 

[risinggreen]

9 minutes ago, NT93 said:

This thread basically shows the personalities and mindsets of the membership here.  Some are "glass half full" kind of guys and others are "glass half empty." 

I think the bottom line is that this kid is a stud QB at a small school in Oklahoma that has everything but the size to be a great QB.  Would he be anyone's first choice?  Of course not.  Will he ever play a down for UNT?  Who knows.  Have there ever been other guys who had everything but size that ended up being great?  Of course.  Have there ever been guys who had everything but size who ended up doing nothing?  Of course.

My point being that every argument made for or against the kid can be easily countered depending on your perspective.

If we're all just being honest with ourselves, this is the truth about this signing.

 

I would say that the odds are long for most 2 star recruits to be highly successful as an FBS quarterback regardless of their physical size or the size of their school. We even have a fairly good sized 3 star on the roster who didn't exactly light it up for us last year, and he went to a pretty big high school against solid competition. 

When was the last time we had an above 2 star equivalent quarterback out of high school here? Like decades? The bottom line is that none of us knows whether or not this guy will make it big in Denton, so all we can do is wait for a couple of years and see.

We've got what we've got, and it's hard to say that he will be less productive than some of the guys we've brought in over the last few years. Of course it would be nice if we could pick up another with high potential by signing day. 

[bob]

5 hours ago, dd992emo said:

Minor point...Mason Fine lives in Locust Grove, not Lone Grove. Compared to Locust Grove, Lone Grove is a veritable megopolis of 5,000 people.

But Lone Grove doesn't have the Country Cottage, local fried chicken, chicken fried steak haven.

[VideoEagle]

There is an article  on the front page  of today's DMN  sports section on recruiting athletes 1 or 2 inches shorter. I'd post  a  link,  but  I read the e edition and finding the same article from print or e edition to web is not easy with the DMN.

It points out a few top players who don't have many offers.

 

EDIT Persistence pays off and I finally found the link below. Why can't they use they same headline across all media to make it possible to find things? 

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/high-school/high-schools/2016/01/26/notable-high-school-football-players-getting-lot-recruiting-attention

 

Edited January 27, 2016 by VideoEagle

[GreenFlag]

13 hours ago, Graddean said:

Before we say "Nerer at UNT", how many offers did Patrick Cobbs have?

Oklahoma State offered late. I'm not sure about other offers. 

[akriesman]

There is some good news here that even 90 can't disagree with.     That is, it probably can't get any worse than what we have put on the field the last 2 seasons.    Whether it was talent or coaching, our QB play was historically bad.

Demarcus Smith was our most efficient QB with a rating of 94.5.   This put him 112 out of 114 FBS QBs and would probably also be at the bottom of FCS rankings.  To make matters worse, Demarcus was our highest rated QB.   Both McNulty and Greer would have been below the guy that is dead last in FBS passing efficiency.

[UNT90]

3 minutes ago, akriesman said:

There is some good news here that even 90 can't disagree with.     That is, it probably can't get any worse than what we have put on the field the last 2 seasons.    Whether it was talent or coaching, our QB play was historically bad.

Demarcus Smith was our most efficient QB with a rating of 94.5.   This put him 112 out of 114 FBS QBs and would probably also be at the bottom of FCS rankings.  To make matters worse, Demarcus was our highest rated QB.   Both McNulty and Greer would have been below the guy that is dead last in FBS passing efficiency.

It always concerns me when people say "it can't get any worse." It can get worse. We could go 0-12 this year. That would be worse. And, while very unlikely, 0-12 is not out of the realm of possibility for next year. 

So, yes, things could definitely get worse. Especially with a retired on duty AD having a job for life. Let's hope they don't.

[Eagle-96]

9 minutes ago, akriesman said:

There is some good news here that even 90 can't disagree with.     That is, it probably can't get any worse than what we have put on the field the last 2 seasons.    Whether it was talent or coaching, our QB play was historically bad.

Demarcus Smith was our most efficient QB with a rating of 94.5.   This put him 112 out of 114 FBS QBs and would probably also be at the bottom of FCS rankings.  To make matters worse, Demarcus was our highest rated QB.   Both McNulty and Greer would have been below the guy that is dead last in FBS passing efficiency.

Never tempt fate.

[DeepGreen]

I'm sure Mason Fine is an outstanding young man and athlete.  Glad to have him at UNT.  But lets not put our hope for the future in just him.  He's small in size(anyone know how tall his folks are?), came from a very, very small school, had no other offers, and so far appears to be the only QB we will sign.  I can remember when people snubbed 2A or even 3A HS recruits because they wouldn't be able to handle the speed and size of FBS football.  Because of our history of losing, Coach Littrel has a tough task at hand in bringing in an FBS caliber quarterback in this recruiting class.  Fine is not that QB.

Listen up people:  we need size and speed to compete at this level.  

[MeanGreenTexan]

20 minutes ago, UNT90 said:

It always concerns me when people say "it can't get any worse." It can get worse. We could go 0-12 this year. That would be worse. And, while very unlikely, 0-12 is not out of the realm of possibility for next year. 

So, yes, things could definitely get worse. Especially with a retired on duty AD having a job for life. Let's hope they don't.

I really don't think it will be worse offensively with Littrell here.  He's pretty proven offensively.
Defensively...  uh, can Ekeler be worse than Cosh?

I mean, it could be worse, but I really don't think so...

[UNT90]

8 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I really don't think it will be worse offensively with Littrell here.  He's pretty proven offensively.
Defensively...  uh, can Ekeler be worse than Cosh?

I mean, it could be worse, but I really don't think so...

And I'm with you here, except I don't see Ekeler as a huge upgrade over Cosh. 

Early season offense and a terrible defense is my concern. Either way, I don't think this team with this schedule wins more than 3 games next year. Hope I'm wrong.

[HarringtonFishSmeller]

16 hours ago, UNT90 said:

This is the ultimate unicorn argument. Flute threw for almost 100,000 yards. As a pro. Played 20 years in the USFL, NFL, and CFL. His CFL numbers are freaking nuts and he is in their hall of fame. He was an NFL pro bowl QB.

He IS the unicorn.

Exactly.  But, here's the problem...people make the unicorn argument because this is apparently where we are stuck in recruiting no matter who the coach is!

One small guy in 100 works out, maybe.  And, so, we say the majority of our 85 are unicorns because 30+ years ago when defensive linemen weighed 250-70 pounds, Flutie pulled the rabbit out of the hat for himself.

It's ridiculous, of course.  But, if you are still drinking the kool-aid that every new coach pours for you, you have to hang onto something. 

After McCarney, I'm not drinking anyone's kool-aid on anyone or anything.  The coach will either win or not win.  In my mind, there are no "free passes" because of this coach or that coach that was here before if you aren't out getting better players!

What kind of ridiculous mindset is that anyway, the "free pass?"  You didn't hire a new guy to get the same, old results.  New Coach was hired, ostensibly, he is said to be better than Old Coach at everything.

How many posts were there about Littrell's "connections in Texas?"  Or, McCarney didn't recruit Texas well enough.  Etc., etc., etc.  Well, we're scraping 5'10", 170 pound QBs out of 3A Oklahoma...and, some want to talk about Doug Flutie in early 1980s Era football?  We're giving scholarships to kids with no other FBS offer...still doing that, the same way Dodge and McCarney did.

Sheesh. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

11 minutes ago, HarringtonFishSmeller said:

Exactly.  But, here's the problem...people make the unicorn argument because this is apparently where we are stuck in recruiting no matter who the coach is!

One small guy in 100 works out, maybe.  And, so, we say the majority of our 85 are unicorns because 30+ years ago when defensive linemen weighed 250-70 pounds, Flutie pulled the rabbit out of the hat for himself.

It's ridiculous, of course.  But, if you are still drinking the kool-aid that every new coach pours for you, you have to hang onto something. 

After McCarney, I'm not drinking anyone's kool-aid on anyone or anything.  The coach will either win or not win.  In my mind, there are no "free passes" because of this coach or that coach that was here before if you aren't out getting better players!

What kind of ridiculous mindset is that anyway, the "free pass?"  You didn't hire a new guy to get the same, old results.  New Coach was hired, ostensibly, he is said to be better than Old Coach at everything.

How many posts were there about Littrell's "connections in Texas?"  Or, McCarney didn't recruit Texas well enough.  Etc., etc., etc.  Well, we're scraping 5'10", 170 pound QBs out of 3A Oklahoma...and, some want to talk about Doug Flutie in early 1980s Era football?  We're giving scholarships to kids with no other FBS offer...still doing that, the same way Dodge and McCarney did.

Sheesh. 

Well, but...  Russell Wilson & Drew Brees too!  

[UNT90]

10 minutes ago, HarringtonFishSmeller said:

Exactly.  But, here's the problem...people make the unicorn argument because this is apparently where we are stuck in recruiting no matter who the coach is!

One small guy in 100 works out, maybe.  And, so, we say the majority of our 85 are unicorns because 30+ years ago when defensive linemen weighed 250-70 pounds, Flutie pulled the rabbit out of the hat for himself.

It's ridiculous, of course.  But, if you are still drinking the kool-aid that every new coach pours for you, you have to hang onto something. 

After McCarney, I'm not drinking anyone's kool-aid on anyone or anything.  The coach will either win or not win.  In my mind, there are no "free passes" because of this coach or that coach that was here before if you aren't out getting better players!

What kind of ridiculous mindset is that anyway, the "free pass?"  You didn't hire a new guy to get the same, old results.  New Coach was hired, ostensibly, he is said to be better than Old Coach at everything.

How many posts were there about Littrell's "connections in Texas?"  Or, McCarney didn't recruit Texas well enough.  Etc., etc., etc.  Well, we're scraping 5'10", 170 pound QBs out of 3A Oklahoma...and, some want to talk about Doug Flutie in early 1980s Era football?  We're giving scholarships to kids with no other FBS offer...still doing that, the same way Dodge and McCarney did.

Sheesh. 

Yep, and the fan base at any successful school IN UNT'S OWN CONFERENCE would be beside themselves right now.

But not at UNT, where accepting failure has become so ingrained in every fabric of our athletic culture that we let a guy like Rick Villarreal stick around for 15 plus years.

Only at North Texas.

[HarringtonFishSmeller]

13 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Well, but...  Russell Wilson & Drew Brees too!  

http://www.mcneesesports.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=1498

[Mean_Green09]

2 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

I'm sure Mason Fine is an outstanding young man and athlete.  Glad to have him at UNT.  But lets not put our hope for the future in just him.  He's small in size(anyone know how tall his folks are?), came from a very, very small school, had no other offers, and so far appears to be the only QB we will sign.  I can remember when people snubbed 2A or even 3A HS recruits because they wouldn't be able to handle the speed and size of FBS football.  Because of our history of losing, Coach Littrel has a tough task at hand in bringing in an FBS caliber quarterback in this recruiting class.  Fine is not that QB.

Listen up people:  we need size and speed to compete at this level.  

Recruiting QBs is different than recruiting DL or WRs. Size and speed are nice, but there are no measurables for QB that say a young man can compete at a certain level. I've seen plenty of small school guys become good college QBs. Fine is an FBS caliber QB otherwise he wouldnt have gotten an offer from UNT. 

I dont think anybody is pointing towards Fine being the answer. I think most fans are interested to follow his development. I dont think any of the QBs we had last year wouldve been able to put up the numbers Fine did when they were SRs in HS even at his level of play. 

[Cr1028]

3 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

I'm sure Mason Fine is an outstanding young man and athlete.  Glad to have him at UNT.  But lets not put our hope for the future in just him.  He's small in size(anyone know how tall his folks are?), came from a very, very small school, had no other offers, and so far appears to be the only QB we will sign.  I can remember when people snubbed 2A or even 3A HS recruits because they wouldn't be able to handle the speed and size of FBS football.  Because of our history of losing, Coach Littrel has a tough task at hand in bringing in an FBS caliber quarterback in this recruiting class.  Fine is not that QB.

Listen up people:  we need size and speed to compete at this level.  

https://youtu.be/WeBy3_xqYtM?t=1m36s

[greenit]

We can't add enough of these type of players at the skill positions.  Big uglies need to be big and ugly.  Skill position guys need to be smart and/or fast and/or big.  It is nice to get all three, but if you have all three then there are lots of people chasing.  

If you told me we were going to sign the Oklahoma Gatorade player of the year who owns all the state passing records, I would say sign me up.  Don't stop with just him, but I would not pass on him.

[UNT90]

1 minute ago, greenit said:

We can't add enough of these type of players at the skill positions.  Big uglies need to be big and ugly.  Skill position guys need to be smart and/or fast and/or big.  It is nice to get all three, but if you have all three then there are lots of people chasing.  

If you told me we were going to sign the Oklahoma Gatorade player of the year who owns all the state passing records, I would say sign me up.  Don't stop with just him, but I would not pass on him.

We did add a BUNCH of these types of players. And then we went 1-11.