Greer vs DW

[H-towngreen]

Dumbest analogy ever.

My problem with playing dajon before he fixes the off the field issues is the message it sends to the other players. Basically, you can do whatever you want and still play. You don't need to follow all the team rules, take practices seriously and set good examples for the younger guys. Fuck off all you want and suffer no consequences. I have a feeling this might be mac's dilema.

So you're a Greer guy

[BillySee58]

Dumbest analogy ever.

My problem with playing dajon before he fixes the off the field issues is the message it sends to the other players. Basically, you can do whatever you want and still play. You don't need to follow all the team rules, take practices seriously and set good examples for the younger guys. Fuck off all you want and suffer no consequences. I have a feeling this might be mac's dilema.

You're making it sound like this is your guess alone. Not trying to come off as rude, but everyone knows this is the case and dilemma for Coach Mccarney. He has come out and said it.

Travis brought up a great point earlier. How far is he really in the doghouse? Obviously not too far, since he has played in two games and went in last night while Mcnulty did not. And he's been going to practice enough to know how to give the signals on the sideline. I get that you don't want to leave bad precedent with your players, but IMO he was punished. You mess up and slack off, guess what? You don't get to start. Someone else will be the starting qb. Well, that someone else had the first crack at being the starting qb and he didn't perform. Really two guys.

If DW does take over, Greer and Mcnulty cannot sit there and say "this isn't fair. I worked harder than he did and they still gave him the job." DW was punished by not getting the first crack at things. Greer was rewarded with that. DW had to work his way up and if Greer would've lit it up then.

Those guys earned the first shot at things. Did they earn the right to not have to worry about getting pulled in favor of Dajon, no matter how bad they do?

[Got5onIt]

Dumbest analogy ever.

My problem with playing dajon before he fixes the off the field issues is the message it sends to the other players. Basically, you can do whatever you want and still play. You don't need to follow all the team rules, take practices seriously and set good examples for the younger guys. Fuck off all you want and suffer no consequences. I have a feeling this might be mac's dilema.

What are the off field issues? He's got to tend to a sick infant and missed practice? He's not sitting in Coach Mac's office with his coffee ready at 6am like the other "students of the game"? My point is we don't know what they are.....

[Eastwood Eagle]

Dumbest analogy ever.

My problem with playing dajon before he fixes the off the field issues is the message it sends to the other players. Basically, you can do whatever you want and still play. You don't need to follow all the team rules, take practices seriously and set good examples for the younger guys. Fuck off all you want and suffer no consequences. I have a feeling this might be mac's dilema.

lol

[NT03]

Dumbest analogy ever.

My problem with playing dajon before he fixes the off the field issues is the message it sends to the other players. Basically, you can do whatever you want and still play. You don't need to follow all the team rules, take practices seriously and set good examples for the younger guys. Fuck off all you want and suffer no consequences. I have a feeling this might be mac's dilema.

Mac certainly didn't have that dilemma when someone stole a TV ...

[jacksondf]

Dumbest analogy ever.

My problem with playing dajon before he fixes the off the field issues is the message it sends to the other players. Basically, you can do whatever you want and still play. You don't need to follow all the team rules, take practices seriously and set good examples for the younger guys. Fuck off all you want and suffer no consequences. I have a feeling this might be mac's dilema.

I think this is exactly Mac's dilema. Another (probably bad) analogy is that we have salespeople who know the product well, show up to all the sales meetings, take notes, etc.-but they lose most deals. We have others who get drunk, miss the meetings, don't know the product that well, but win almost of their competitive deals. Who do you think we send to make the presentation when a really large opportunity comes in? Time for DW

[NT03]

That Rudy guy was probably the most prepared player during his time Notre Dame ...

[SSP]

Please don't insult these coaches, if you could do a better job, well, then you would be doing it.

I'll take this and help you, MeanGreenD.....

You all don't have all of the information. Period.

I agree. He was a heck of a lot better. It may be a moot point or they may not have a choice to play him depending on how they see the bigger picture. But - if you had all of the intel and are not just interested in building a season, but a program- doubt most of you would feel the same.

That's all that I'm saying on this subject.

[Cerebus]

But - if you had all of the intel and are not just interested in building a season, but a program- doubt most of you would feel the same.

Tasty nailed this earlier:

F--- practice.

I don't care who pays attention super hard and shows up 15 minutes early for practice. I'm not buying tickets to the Practice Bowl when January rolls around. And I don't think we have a shot at an at-large selection to the Tried Really Hard on the Bench Press During Offseason Workouts Playoff. So f--- all that.

And f--- "maturity", too.

I don't give a crap if Dajon Williams sleeps with a night light and believes in the Easter Bunny. If he's spending all his time in team meetings playing with crayons and making laser gun noises while he smashes GI Joes together... GOOD FOR HIM. It's obviously making him more effective than what more "mature" options bring to the table. Last time I checked, Dajon Williams hasn't been stealing electronics or meat, or credit cards, or driving drunk, or running from the cops, or sexually assaulting anyone, or punching out people on Fry Street, or beating his wife. So, whatever makes him not "mature", he ain't that bad in the grand scheme of things. There's an award for dedication, vocal leadership, and bright eyed adherence to traditional values of success. It isn't Starting Quarterback, it's Eagle Scout. So pin a damn badge on McNulty and Greer, but put the football in Dajon's hands. Pretty please.

And for anyone who wants to point out that almost all of Dajon's success has come late in blowout games, or against backups... You may be right. I think the only way to judge him fairly against our other QBs is to see how they do in the same situation. So, START DAJON. And if we get our asses kicked the way we have against Texas and La Tech (or Tulsa when McNulty started)... Then I'd love to see what Greer can do against backups, when he comes in off the bench instead.

If we have to choose between a guy who stands tall and talks in a deep voice and Leads Real Hard and Practices Like A Champion, or a guy who seems to be a slacker but actually ACHIEVES RESULTS... Start the guy who can accomplish something in a game. And if you're one of our coaches and don't like the tone that sets for the rest of the team... Well, get your ass out on the road and recruit someone who can do both. I'll cheer extra hard for that guy next year, if we manage to find him. Until then, give me Dajon.

If Mac wants a guy who is perfect off the field and perfect on it, he needs to go recruit and develop him. If he only has one or the other he needs to play the guy who can WIN GAMES. Go recruit and develop the other guy and have him take DWs job next year.

Mac's job is:

#3) run a clean program

#2) graduate players

#1) WIN GAMES

Last year, when he had a passible substitute to take the spot, he could ride that high horse. He doesn't this year, and THAT IS HIS OWN FAULT. He is in charge of recruiting and he is in charge of developing.

[Ben Gooding]

Yeah..F intel, F practice, F film rooms, F it all. Start DW. If Mac wants to win on the field start DW. This season is as good as over if he doesn't.

[Green Crazy]

So you're a Greer guy

Not at all. I picked him to start the season, but like everyone else I want the best guy in there, but not if can't follow rules.

You're making it sound like this is your guess alone. Not trying to come off as rude, but everyone knows this is the case and dilemma for Coach Mccarney. He has come out and said it.

Travis brought up a great point earlier. How far is he really in the doghouse? Obviously not too far, since he has played in two games and went in last night while Mcnulty did not. And he's been going to practice enough to know how to give the signals on the sideline. I get that you don't want to leave bad precedent with your players, but IMO he was punished. You mess up and slack off, guess what? You don't get to start. Someone else will be the starting qb. Well, that someone else had the first crack at being the starting qb and he didn't perform. Really two guys.

If DW does take over, Greer and Mcnulty cannot sit there and say "this isn't fair. I worked harder than he did and they still gave him the job." DW was punished by not getting the first crack at things. Greer was rewarded with that. DW had to work his way up and if Greer would've lit it up then.

Those guys earned the first shot at things. Did they earn the right to not have to worry about getting pulled in favor of Dajon, no matter how bad they do?

Not trying to insinuate it's my guess alone, although it did come across that way. It just seems some don't care or haven't thought about how much that can hurt a team.

If he was punished for things that he did, then I would agree with you. If he's getting punished for things he's still doing, then I don't. I don't know if he is still doing whatever he did, just trying to make sense of things.

What are the off field issues? He's got to tend to a sick infant and missed practice? He's not sitting in Coach Mac's office with his coffee ready at 6am like the other "students of the game"? My point is we don't know what they are.....

I don't know what he did or might still be doing, but it started back in winter workouts, when Coach Wintrich was writing negative comments about him. Also, I'm not sure about this, but I don't think his baby has been born yet, so that wouldn't be an excuse yet.

Mac certainly didn't have that dilemma when someone stole a TV ...

Totally different in my opinion. Edited September 13, 2014 by Green Crazy

[jacksondf]

I'll take this and help you, MeanGreenD.....

You all don't have all of the information. Period.

I agree. He was a heck of a lot better. It may be a moot point or they may not have a choice to play him depending on how they see the bigger picture. But - if you had all of the intel and are not just interested in building a season, but a program- doubt most of you would feel the same.

That's all that I'm saying on this subject.

You're right, we don't have all of the information. If there is a deal-killer for letting DW start, then let's give Conner Means a chance. From early reports, he's the real deal. We can only improve.

[TheTastyGreek]

Mac certainly didn't have that dilemma when someone stole a TV ...

Well, obviously. That TV was stolen so the players could watch tape at home and be better prepared for practice.

Hell, stealing that TV showed dedication and leadership, and probably earned a starting job or two!

[Cerebus]

If DW had done something TERRIBLE he would already be kicked off the team. Mac has let people who stole, got into fights, etc etc play.

My opinion is that we are in such dire straights over the QB situation that if DW didn't do something worthy of being kicked off the team he needs to be given a start against nicholls and indiana and lets see what happens.

[NT03]

Well, obviously. That TV was stolen so the players could watch tape at home and be better prepared for practice.

Hell, stealing that TV showed dedication and leadership, and probably earned a starting job or two!

Bravo , sir

[Ben Gooding]

Yeah, this doesn't have shit to do with the character of DW. If it did a dude toting TV's out of wal-mart wouldn't be playing. He is playing so that voids that argument. I think it's more than that, maybe much more. Maybe something along the lines of DW rubbing the coaching staff the wrong way with his personality. Just speculation, I don't know. But I think there may be personality conflicts here. Macs ego doesn't allow him or will not allow him to publicly say, "I was wrong."

[Andrew]

I'll take this and help you, MeanGreenD.....

You all don't have all of the information. Period.

I agree. He was a heck of a lot better. It may be a moot point or they may not have a choice to play him depending on how they see the bigger picture. But - if you had all of the intel and are not just interested in building a season, but a program- doubt most of you would feel the same.

That's all that I'm saying on this subject.

So lose now to win later? Not sure that I like that logic....

[Got5onIt]

That Rudy guy was probably the most prepared player during his time Notre Dame ...

LOL

+1000

[Green Crazy]

So, what some of you are saying is that if a player continues to defy coaches or break rules or whatever he's doing regardless of punishment (don't know if this is what's going on), then we should play him because he's good? Win at all cost?

Honest question?

As far as the TV theft is concerned, if they do it again kick them off. I'm someone who will give anyone a second chance, but not 4th and 5th.

[Cerebus]

So, what some of you are saying is that if a player continues to defy coaches or break rules

You have no idea if that is happening. If it is, and he's still on the team, then by your logic the coaches are at fault. If it hasn't continued, then he has earned a shot.

[Green Crazy]

You have no idea if that is happening. If it is, and he's still on the team, then by your logic the coaches are at fault. If it hasn't continued, then he has earned a shot.

Ummm, obviously I don't, that's why I keep saying I don't know what he's done or if he's still doing it. And you don't know that it's not happening.

Yes, if he was continuing to do something against the rules it's the coaches fault they haven't kicked him off the team and his fault that he continues to do it. And if he isn't, then he should get a shot.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Green Crazy

[H-towngreen]

If DW was that far in the doghouse he wouldn't have passed up mini Mac for playing time

[aztecskin]

I said this to someone on the twitter machine:

We don't have all the information and aren't allowed to know. We don't need all the details, but something more than 'maturity' and 'consistency'.

I completely understand wanting to keep organizational health by not revealing rumors and other stupidness but this thing is entertainment. We obviously aren't being entertained. I'd like something -- a dribble, a quote of real information. "Hey Josh Greer has played pretty damned poorly but he really puts us in good situations in the huddle and such and such and so forth"

"Dajon Williams really did well against the second team, Jub, but let me tell ya, he ate my lunch when it was CLEARLY marked in the break room. Totally not cool. I'm sure you understand."

Another thought on scoring against scrubs: Andy McNulty threw a pick-six against Texas' second unit late (that was largely Kidsy's fault but whatever). Game success against scrubs > Practice against First Team.

[eulessismore]

I'll take this and help you, MeanGreenD.....

You all don't have all of the information. Period.

I agree. He was a heck of a lot better. It may be a moot point or they may not have a choice to play him depending on how they see the bigger picture. But - if you had all of the intel and are not just interested in building a season, but a program- doubt most of you would feel the same.

That's all that I'm saying on this subject.

So, I'm not sure what you've said. It seems like you've been generally critical of Williams in the past, and maybe that isn't what you're saying, but could you come right out and say something about this quarterback situation? I just think it would be better to say things specifically for or against one or any of them than just to imply there's something that we're too uninformed to judge. I really think the results are the information here, since I haven't heard anything more specific than "missed some practices", "immature", or whatever, The whole vagueness thing doesn't do much for us who just want someone in there who can play football and doesn't have any felony indictments. I'm kind of wondering if expecting "normal" behavior from a quarterback may be like looking for actors and musicians to be role models for your children. There are many who would drive teachers and coaches crazy who might really have something to contribute.

Edited September 13, 2014 by eulessismore

[NT93]

I have zero knowledge of anything DW may or may not have done, but if he's still on the team (which he is) and he's the best option (which he is) he should be playing (which he's not).

The choices seem obvious:

1. Play him

2. Supend him

3. Kick him off the team

(Options 2 and 3 certainly don't seem realistic based anything I've seen or heard)

As I stated in another thread, I don't think necessarily think he's going to be a savior, but surely he can't do any worse.

Edited September 13, 2014 by NT93