Does RV need to be fired if Benford is retained and we are this bad ne

[untjim1995]

This is a moot point, folks. RV ain't going anywhere. He's here for as long as he wants to be. If I were him, I'd work as long as they'll keep paying me. He has it made here. The BOR loves him because he makes little noise about additional athletic spending. Yes, facilities have greatly improved, especially the stadium, but UNTFlyer led that because it was clear that RV being involved would torpedo the operation. I still think that the BOR cannot believe that UNT students voted to build a football stadium.

I just don't think that opening up tailgating in parking lots or getting SMU to come to Denton as part of a series, as awesome as they are, makes RV a lifetime AD. I think scheduling in football and basketball sucks and his track record on hires for revenue sports has been dreadful. If he had gotten Apogee funded and built back in 2003 or so, I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on all of this, but knowing that it failed miserably and in true UNT fashion, the leaders here didn't even TRY AGAIN to launch another attempt at getting rid of that toilet bowl known as Fouts is very telling. Literally, a small minority of students who managed to run about as stealth of a campaign as possible, saved UNT Football as a FBS program. But my issue is that the university's leadership should have gotten this done on their own, just l ike it gets done at every other Texas university that plays FBS football. Just like when it became clear that we couldn't get into the SWC back in the late 70s and Hayden Fry left town, our leadership literally gave up on sports, allowing us to drop down to 1-aa purgatory for 12 freaking years and making us join a podunk conference with Texas schools that almost everyone looked down at as being smalltime. Its that track record of just quitting or going half-ass on revenue athletics that kills the spirit--it makes alumni who care about sports want to go elsewhere with their fandom, giving other colleges in this state that have no funding issues even more money.

Edited March 14, 2014 by untjim1995

[JesseMartin]

With the BOR giving him an extension on his contract, honestly both BB and FB would have to tank over the next 2-3 years for them to even consider getting rid of Rick. And hopefully, that doesn't happen, and I'd hope no one would hope for that to occur in order to get rid of RV, no matter how much they might want him gone.

As to track getting unfunded, I doubt it because there's been the discussion of which women's sport to add. And 97 is right, scholarships aren't the only part of Title IX. You have to find ways to level the spending on women's sports so that the total expenses equal those of the men's sports. That's still part of the "necessary expenses" I discussed in my "too long but still shorter than it could have been" post.

[UNT90]

This is a moot point, folks. RV ain't going anywhere. He's here for as long as he wants to be. If I were him, I'd work as long as they'll keep paying me. He has it made here. The BOR loves him because he makes little noise about additional athletic spending. Yes, facilities have greatly improved, especially the stadium, but UNTFlyer led that because it was clear that RV being involved would torpedo the operation. I still think that the BOR cannot believe that UNT students voted to build a football stadium.

I just don't think that opening up tailgating in parking lots or getting SMU to come to Denton as part of a series, as awesome as they are, makes RV a lifetime AD. I think scheduling in football and basketball sucks and his track record on hires for revenue sports has been dreadful. If he had gotten Apogee funded and built back in 2003 or so, I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on all of this, but knowing that it failed miserably and in true UNT fashion, the leaders here didn't even TRY AGAIN to launch another attempt at getting rid of that toilet bowl known as Fouts is very telling. Literally, a small minority of students who managed to run about as stealth of a campaign as possible, saved UNT Football as a FBS program. But my issue is that the university's leadership should have gotten this done on their own, just l ike it gets done at every other Texas university that plays FBS football. Just like when it became clear that we couldn't get into the SWC back in the late 70s and Hayden Fry left town, our leadership literally gave up on sports, allowing us to drop down to 1-aa purgatory for 12 freaking years and making us join a podunk conference with Texas schools that almost everyone looked down at as being smalltime. Its that track record of just quitting or going half-ass on revenue athletics that kills the spirit--it makes alumni who care about sports want to go elsewhere with their fansom, giving other colleges in this state that have no funding issues even more money.

So so true. All of it. I have college friends that go to UT games and laugh at my invite to tailgate.

HOD bowl? Who we playing? UNLV? Hahahaha I'll stay home and watch REAL college football, thank you.

That is a actual response I got from a guy I went to school with. And the reason is years and years and years of neglect. What does that matter to the current situation? We have an AD exhibiting the sane type of neglect to the basketball program, and killing it swiftly.

[UNTFan23]

HOD bowl? Who we playing? UNLV? Hahahaha I'll stay home and watch REAL college football, thank you.

RV had absolutely no control over who the opponent was going to be in the HOD Bowl though. As we saw with La Tech last year, turning down an invite to a bowl for a possible invite to another bowl doesn't always work out the way you want.

[UNT90]

RV had absolutely no control over who the opponent was going to be in the HOD Bowl though. As we saw with La Tech last year, turning down an invite to a bowl for a possible invite to another bowl doesn't always work out the way you want.

That wasn't the point. We all know RV had no control over it.

The point is grads see us as small time because we continually project that image. Just like RV's comments to Vito.

[the green rokemi]

Why are we even bringing up football on this thread. As far as I'm concerned we're on the right track. Winning will bring attendance. Shoot, attendance now is better than it was when I was in school (late 90s)

[greenminer]

Why are we even bringing up football on this thread. As far as I'm concerned we're on the right track. Winning will bring attendance. Shoot, attendance now is better than it was when I was in school (late 90s)

I think you missed the part about Benford's losing trend and declining attendance

[UNT90]

Why are we even bringing up football on this thread. As far as I'm concerned we're on the right track. Winning will bring attendance. Shoot, attendance now is better than it was when I was in school (late 90s)

Because the AD is over all sports and this is a conversation about the AD?

[UNT90]

I think you missed the part about Benford's losing trend and declining attendance

Hey, things are great. Haven't you heard? We averaged more than 900 for basketball, and that's better than we did 15 years ago...

;-)

[flyonthewall]

You freakin jerk....Yes I said it. I don't give a rats ass about your loser classmate that chose to watch real football while we were in the Heart of Dallas Bowl, because 30,000 plus real butts with Mean Green ties were there. If you think that is not progress then just go away. Mail me your club seats that you worked so hard for you whiner, and I will by them from you. You may say that tailgate is a joke at our place, but I don't think it is a joke. We are building on an experience every year that needed to be built on. Are you going to be part of the solution, or are you going to just keep saying what a joke everything is? I read this board one day in a month and you are spewing the same crap. Write a new song please, because this one is getting old. But don't belittle the day that we had January 1st of this year, that is just not right.

[BillySee58]

You freakin jerk....Yes I said it. I don't give a rats ass about your loser classmate that chose to watch real football while we were in the Heart of Dallas Bowl, because 30,000 plus real butts with Mean Green ties were there. If you think that is not progress then just go away. Mail me your club seats that you worked so hard for you whiner, and I will by them from you. You may say that tailgate is a joke at our place, but I don't think it is a joke. We are building on an experience every year that needed to be built on. Are you going to be part of the solution, or are you going to just keep saying what a joke everything is? I read this board one day in a month and you are spewing the same crap. Write a new song please, because this one is getting old. But don't belittle the day that we had January 1st of this year, that is just not right.

You're completely misreading these posts.

[flyonthewall]

Not from one person. He knows who he is. "I have college friends that go to UT games and laugh at my invite to tailgate". Then go to the damn UT games!!!!

How am I missing the point?

[JesseMartin]

You're completely misreading these posts.

I think he's just referring to the fact that there are a few people who are extremely negative about pretty much everything almost all of the time, and no matter the topic, it still sounds like the same thing over and over. I'm not about to lose my temper over it but it is a bit tiresome, and helps to wear down the positivity of a fanbase that's finally on its way up, even though there are still some issues that have created some recent bumps in the road. But I think the thing we can all agree on is that whoever thinks the idea of "real" college ball is a mega-stadium is welcome to it. I don't think he agrees with the sentiment but is bothered by the fact that other UNT alumni feel that way.

Honestly it's kind of how I feel about mega-churches. They may be a fun attraction to check out but you don't get the same feeling of close-knit community when you're lost in a crowd that size. I like my football the same way I like my church. Those who feel differently, that's fine, they can have it their way. But I like prayer groups and small churches just like I like a nice, mid-sized football stadium and pre-game festivities where I actually know a good chunk of the people walking around or sitting near me.

As to the general subject of t-shirt fans who avoid their own school's programs, well, that's a bigger joke than they might ever think of their alma mater's performance. What, an elite school that you couldn't get into even if you could afford it is your option over where you actually made friends and grew your future? It's a little different when family's involved but still, give me a break. "I graduated from North Texas but I'm really a Longhorn" makes me wonder about the quality of the person's character if they are loyal to somebody who didn't want them instead of where they were accepted with open arms. Issues, man.

[BillySee58]

Not from one person. He knows who he is. "I have college friends that go to UT games and laugh at my invite to tailgate". Then go to the damn UT games!!!!

How am I missing the point?

This part

That is a actual response I got from a guy I went to school with. And the reason is years and years and years of neglect. What does that matter to the current situation? We have an AD exhibiting the sane type of neglect to the basketball program, and killing it swiftly.

He's not saying we aren't showing progress. He's saying the pattern of neglect over years has caused people to lose faith in NT sports. Neglect is what is going on with the basketball program right now. If we are going to be a legitimate athletic college, then we need to show commitment, particularly to the big sports, rather than this indifference from the upper level leadership.

But not my argument in the first place. 90 can stand up for his own self if you disagree with him. It just sounded like you were omitting part of his posts in your rebuttal.

[UNTLifer]

All I read is how North Texas, forever, underfunded athletics. Someone mentioned when Fry left and how we ended up in D1AA. How in the world is that RV's fault? Flyonthewall isn't misreading anything. UNT90 spends every off season bitching about scheduling, RV, basketball, his Club seats,etc... Personally I could care less about the club seats. Every game some moron was dumping food over the railing on to the fans below. Once, it ks a mistake. Over and over, I don't think so. Anyway, back on topic. RV has accomplished more on his watch than any AD here ever. Athletic Center, Liberty Christian purchase, record donations from fans that were historically off limits, new stadium, naming rights sold to Apogee, selling club level naming rights, increased salaries for coaches and assistants, donations to fund the basketball practice facility, bowl games, etc....

Sure, he has had some errors in hiring Stephens, Dodge and Benford. Hell, many wanted JJ gone early in his tenure before he turned it around against weak nonconference opponents, and he still didn't consistently win conference. Half us wish we used TCU's model of success. Last I looked, they have sucked in basketball for years. Would you really be happy with that? Many schools are only successful in one big sport. TCU, SMU, A&M, Duke until this year, Florida State, Auburn, Alabama, etc... are a few that excel in football or basketball but not typically both.

Many basketball experts nationally thought the Benford hire was the right hire, Aston was hired away by UT so I would rate that a good hire, Peterson's team was decimated with injuries this year so I would say it is too early to rate this hire, but he has ben successful, Mac was a steal and Kee looks like a good hire. RV is about 50/50 with his hires, but to blame him for not buying out the contract if we can't afford to is ridiculous.

The blame could be laid at the feet of the alumni for not supporting the program or it could be laid at the feet of past administrations for not pushing for these donations. Either way, RV has worked to overcome decades of neglect. Has he been perfect? No, but who is? When I look at how things have changed since he has been here, I am honestly amazed at our progress in facilities, coach's salaries, upgrades, donations, conference affiliations, student spirit/involvement, etc... Forget about the alumni that still laugh at going to our games. It is their loss. Focus on those 40,000 that showed up January 1st and continue to build this program. In my humble opinion, RV has done much more good than harm, and again, I will wait until the 2015 football schedule is announced to comment/complain/applaud it. Speculating at this point is ridiculous and a waste of energy.

[UNTLifer]

So so true. All of it. I have college friends that go to UT games and laugh at my invite to tailgate.

HOD bowl? Who we playing? UNLV? Hahahaha I'll stay home and watch REAL college football, thank you.

That is a actual response I got from a guy I went to school with. And the reason is years and years and years of neglect. What does that matter to the current situation? We have an AD exhibiting the sane type of neglect to the basketball program, and killing it swiftly.

So you criticize RV for slowly converting the masses and you gave in to one college buddy? I don't think you have room to bitch.

[UNT90]

You freakin jerk....Yes I said it. I don't give a rats ass about your loser classmate that chose to watch real football while we were in the Heart of Dallas Bowl, because 30,000 plus real butts with Mean Green ties were there. If you think that is not progress then just go away. Mail me your club seats that you worked so hard for you whiner, and I will by them from you. You may say that tailgate is a joke at our place, but I don't think it is a joke. We are building on an experience every year that needed to be built on. Are you going to be part of the solution, or are you going to just keep saying what a joke everything is? I read this board one day in a month and you are spewing the same crap. Write a new song please, because this one is getting old. But don't belittle the day that we had January 1st of this year, that is just not right.

I didn't say it. Do you get that?

And it was part of a bigger discussion. HOD was obviously a great step for this program.

Stick your hand in the sand if you want, but that is just one example of conversations I have had with alums trying to get them re-involved here. Others have struck the same tone. Doing nothing while the basketball program is reduced to pre-JJ levels doesn't help. 5 home game seasons don't help.

A part of the solution? Don't you think I am by trying to get people to tailgate and go to the game? Or is being part of the solution accepting everything the AD says and does and never disagree with them about anything?

Ya, ya, ya. Disagree in private. That works for you, because ( thankfully) you give at a level that demands attention. Most people on this board can't give at that level.

Do you think RV should be questioned? Ever? About anything?

Edited March 14, 2014 by UNT90

[UNT90]

So you criticize RV for slowly converting the masses and you gave in to one college buddy? I don't think you have room to bitch.

I don't give in. Still bothering him to come to games. He actually came to the UTEP basketball game. Of course he pointed out that it was a UTEP home game.

Look, he will never be involved with UNT sports. His choice. It's just an example of the challenges we face, and leaving Bemford in place to destroy the basketball program will just reinforce those thoughts.

Edited March 14, 2014 by UNT90

[Army of Dad]

You freakin jerk....Yes I said it. I don't give a rats ass about your loser classmate that chose to watch real football while we were in the Heart of Dallas Bowl, because 30,000 plus real butts with Mean Green ties were there. If you think that is not progress then just go away. Mail me your club seats that you worked so hard for you whiner, and I will by them from you. You may say that tailgate is a joke at our place, but I don't think it is a joke. We are building on an experience every year that needed to be built on. Are you going to be part of the solution, or are you going to just keep saying what a joke everything is? I read this board one day in a month and you are spewing the same crap. Write a new song please, because this one is getting old. But don't belittle the day that we had January 1st of this year, that is just not right.

You said the money was there to buy out Benford. He still sucks, he is killing attendance, can't recruit, and is about to be left in charge of recruiting a huge class. When he fails to do a good job recruiting that class it will relegate us to mediocrity (at best!) for another three years!

RV said he feels good about the direction of the program. By making public statements like that he is publicly hitching his trailer to Benford. He doesn't have to say anything, so please don't feed me a line about supporting his employee in public. If RV really believes that then it might be time for his seat to start getting warm.

[UNT90]

I will wait until the 2015 football schedule is announced to comment/complain/applaud it. Speculating at this point is ridiculous and a waste of energy.

Same exact thing you said about the 2012 schedule. How did that work out for you? 5 home games, that's how. You said the same thing when I warned it was coming then as you are saying now.

And we have at least one more in our future before 2019.

It is telling that you are just fine with us sucking in either football or basketball, as long as the other is winning. You do realize that basketball was on the verge of a breakout when Benford took over, don't you? Those days are gone, and we are approaching Trilli days.

As bad as we have been for as long as we have been, it always amazes me how some have ZERO tolerance for any questioning of how things are being done inside the UNT AD.

Edited March 14, 2014 by UNT90

[UNT90]

You said the money was there to buy out Benford. He still sucks, he is killing attendance, can't recruit, and is about to be left in charge of recruiting a huge class. When he fails to do a good job recruiting that class it will relegate us to mediocrity (at best!) for another three years!

RV said he feels good about the direction of the program. By making public statements like that he is publicly hitching his trailer to Benford. He doesn't have to say anything, so please don't feed me a line about supporting his employee in public. If RV really believes that then it might be time for his seat to start getting warm.

This. I don't know how sure Fly actual is that Benford is the right guy. He damn sure isn't going to tell us on a public forum. We can only hope he is working behind the scenes to affect change.

[UNTLifer]

Same exact thing you said about the 2012 schedule. How did that work out for you? 5 home games, that's how. You said the same thing when I warned it was coming then as you are saying now.

And we have at least one more in our future before 2019.

It is telling that you are just fine with us sucking in either football or basketball, as long as the other is winning. You do realize that basketball was on the verge of a breakout when Benford took over, don't you? Those days are gone, and we are approaching Trilli days.

As bad as we have been for as long as we have been, it always amazes me how some have ZERO tolerance for any questioning of how things are being done inside the UNT AD.

Wrong. You were bitching about last years schedule at this time a year ago. We ended up with 6 home games. I am not fine with what Benford is doing to the program, but made a point about how many want us to pattern our program after TCU or Boise St. while they, and many, many others excel at one sport and not the other. I don't know the financial situation of our programz overall but it is better now than ever before based on coach's salaries. Maybe the only way we can entice a coach to the program is by offering security in a 5 year deal. Either way, we get screwed if things don't work out. You have trouble with old classmates that don't support the program. RV gets that 10 fold. Events like the HOD and the festivities surrounding the bowl is our chance to get the alumni together and try to increase support. Some we get, some will never come on board, but fixing 80+ years of neglect takes time. Again, I am not happy with Benford but I am happy with the overall job RV has done. You come across as never being happy regardless of what RV does. Guess I will live with it, because, like your friend that will not change his mind about us, I do not think you will change either.

[Green P1]

If one bowl win in a decade's time gives you cart blanch to skate on the absolute destruction of your school's other marquee program... man I want to work where some of ya'll sign the checks.

Edited March 15, 2014 by Green P1

[the green rokemi]

Honestly it's kind of how I feel about mega-churches. They may be a fun attraction to check out but you don't get the same feeling of close-knit community when you're lost in a crowd that size. I like my football the same way I like my church. Those who feel differently, that's fine, they can have it their way. But I like prayer groups and small churches just like I like a nice, mid-sized football stadium and pre-game festivities where I actually know a good chunk of the people walking around or sitting near me.

The best post I've seen on here in a long time, feel exactly the same way. I like rooting for the David. And if we turned into Goliath, honestly I'd probably stay home. The big money machine that college sports has turned into and that has led to the conference carousel has left me feeling sick.what I would give to have a regional rival conference. SWC 2.0

It will never happen. The question is whether we'll survive when the elite further remove themselves from the mid majors. Is RV leading us to survival? Based upon the way Athletics has changed at NT in his tenure I would say we're closer than we were before. Firing RV and getting another AD like"parrot eagle" Helwig would greatly diminish our chances of surviving.

[Mean Green 93-98]

You freakin jerk....Yes I said it. I don't give a rats [derriere] about your loser classmate that chose to watch real football while we were in the Heart of Dallas Bowl, because 30,000 plus real butts with Mean Green ties were there. If you think that is not progress then just go away. Mail me your club seats that you worked so hard for you whiner, and I will by them from you. You may say that tailgate is a joke at our place, but I don't think it is a joke. We are building on an experience every year that needed to be built on. Are you going to be part of the solution, or are you going to just keep saying what a joke everything is? I read this board one day in a month and you are spewing the same crap. Write a new song please, because this one is getting old. But don't belittle the day that we had January 1st of this year, that is just not right.

I think this thread might have crossed into HOF territory. More, please!