The Athletic on DFW Football recruiting

[MeanGreenZen]

Interesting results from an anonymous survey of DFW high school football head coaches in The Athletic. 
One of the questions was to name the best college assistant coaches at recruiting. Patrick Cobbs was our only coach mentioned. And he was mentioned multiple times.

 

Here is another quote from a DFW high school head coach that I found interesting and true unfortunately:

“The Group of 5s are now junior colleges. If your kid is all-conference, he ain’t coming back. He’s gone, and you know he’s gone. They have to change their thinking for how they build their programs. They have to tell kids, “Come here, play a couple years and you’ll be gone.” They have to just be good with that. They’re not going to stay around.”

Link to article:

https://theathletic.com/5422366/2024/04/18/dallas-texas-high-school-recruiting-confidential/?source=user_shared_article

 

[TheColonyEagle]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenZen said:

Here is another quote from a DFW high school head coach that I found interesting and true unfortunately:

“The Group of 5s are now junior colleges. If your kid is all-conference, he ain’t coming back. He’s gone, and you know he’s gone. They have to change their thinking for how they build their programs. They have to tell kids, “Come here, play a couple years and you’ll be gone.” They have to just be good with that. They’re not going to stay around.”

Link to article:

https://theathletic.com/5422366/2024/04/18/dallas-texas-high-school-recruiting-confidential/?source=user_shared_article

 

We can b!tch and moan all we want...but schools have 3 choices:

1. Change it

2. Complain about it

3. Adapt to it

Won't be long (if they're not doing it already) before coaches start telling kids "You didn't get that P5 offer you wanted, come here and we'll develop you and then help you get there." Coaches used to say that to kids wanting to go pro. Now instead of: "I'll help you get to the NFL" it may be: "I'll help you get to Alabama."

They're being forced to start thinking about players as 2 year players instead of 4 year players.  So that coach is technically correct...G5s are now on a juco time table: 2 year plan vs 4 year plan.

[RBP79]

Just make P5 professional (paid) and G5 amature...once you've signed a P5 contract you ain't going back to G5. Consequences for your actions....just a thought.

 

[MeanGreenZen]

This guy was on our coaching staff the last few years and is now TE coach at Abilene Christian.

This X post is a little strange but the message seems to be come to ACU and he will help them make big NIL somewhere else.

If that is his message at ACU, it was probably his message here. 

[SMU2006]

It works both ways.  There are plenty of super talented guys in the portal from P5's that will need playing time.  UNT should be well positioned to find players in the portal that are in need of PT and a chance to play closer to home.

[MeanGreenZen]

1 hour ago, SMU2006 said:

It works both ways.  There are plenty of super talented guys in the portal from P5's that will need playing time.  UNT should be well positioned to find players in the portal that are in need of PT and a chance to play closer to home.

Remember Sonny Dykes? I bet you do.
He said about transfers, “If they weren’t playing where they were, they probably won’t play for you.”

I believe there are exceptions to that. But overall, the best transfers to UNT have been proven guys that we got from lower levels. Not the guys who were highly-rated out of high school, signed with a P4 and then never saw the field there. 

From the P4, I would be on the lookout for a guy like Marcus Trice. He demonstrated that he could be productive at a high level, but fell down the depth chart on a very talented roster. Grab those guys and give them an opportunity.

[SMU2006]

50 minutes ago, MeanGreenZen said:

Remember Sonny Dykes? I bet you do.
He said about transfers, “If they weren’t playing where they were, they probably won’t play for you.”

I believe there are exceptions to that. But overall, the best transfers to UNT have been proven guys that we got from lower levels. Not the guys who were highly-rated out of high school, signed with a P4 and then never saw the field there. 

From the P4, I would be on the lookout for a guy like Marcus Trice. He demonstrated that he could be productive at a high level, but fell down the depth chart on a very talented roster. Grab those guys and give them an opportunity.

Sonny was able to accelerate the turnaround at SMU through the transfer portal so......

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenZen said:

Remember Sonny Dykes? I bet you do.
He said about transfers, “If they weren’t playing where they were, they probably won’t play for you.”

I believe there are exceptions to that. But overall, the best transfers to UNT have been proven guys that we got from lower levels. Not the guys who were highly-rated out of high school, signed with a P4 and then never saw the field there. 

From the P4, I would be on the lookout for a guy like Marcus Trice. He demonstrated that he could be productive at a high level, but fell down the depth chart on a very talented roster. Grab those guys and give them an opportunity.

But those guys are now making more money riding bench than being a starter at UNT. Those are also not NFL guys so if athletics is ever going to pay them, it's going to be now. 

[Tommy Gadberry]

Wow great, these jucos have great fan support and donors.  We’re screwed!

[NorthTexasWeLove]

9 minutes ago, Tommy Gadberry said:

Wow great, these jucos have great fan support and donors.  We’re screwed!

It's true. In the current format apathy will and has been destroying our athletics. 

The incentive/wish/hope of "getting there one day" is completely gone. 

[Jonnyeagle]

1 hour ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

It's true. In the current format apathy will and has been destroying our athletics. 

The incentive/wish/hope of "getting there one day" is completely gone. 

You are right.  I sense that you will start to see the best G5 head coaches leave to become assistants at the richer programs.  The money and greed of the coaches and schools are to blame for this.  I do not blame the networks.   It is ridiculous for coaches to be paid millions of dollars and same for AD’s when the players can’t pay their bills.

I fear our programs as we know and knew them to be are basically over.  We are North Texas State Junior College now.

[UNTLifer]

We have complained for years about being left in the dark.  The Mean Green Club was promised quarterly meetings that never took place, now there is little to no coverage of the spring practices, player movement is constant so the days of watching a last second scholarship player developing in to a Hall of Fame performer are long gone ala Johnny Quinn, there is little to no fan engagement, etc...  It just keeps getting worse and without a push to really involve the fans, I foresee a bleak future.  They, the AD, has to create excitement around the team/program or Apogee will just become a waste of money, the new basketball arena will never happen and future adds like baseball will just be an idea that came too late.  The days of the G5's are on their way out.  It will be whittled down to the top 40 or 50 programs as D1.  We might as well go back to our D1AA days and play at the FCS level.

I am just about done with sports from a financial commitment position.  The greed has ruined it for me.  There is zero loyalty towards the program by the players.  It is all about them and how much money they can cram in their pockets and it appears our basketball coach encourages the lack of loyalty.  I will watch on television, but that's about it, much like pro sports have become.  I have no interest in attending a Cowboys' game live once the prices became ridiculous, same with the Mav's and Rangers' in that stupid new ballpark that was a waste of money.  I had arrived at a point where I was only willing to invest in watching North Texas live, but the current situation has ruined that as well.  The future of all of college sports is a disaster if some type of control isn't put in place.  It is ridiculous and very sad.

Guess I will end up spending my money on golf, fine food and drink, drugs, etc. and become a more interesting person.

Edited April 19 by UNTLifer

[NorthTexasWeLove]

9 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

We have complained for years about being left in the dark.  The Mean Green Club was promised quarterly meetings that never took place, now there is little to no coverage of the spring practices, player movement is constant so the days of watching a last second scholarship player developing in to a Hall of Fame performer are long gone ala Johnny Quinn, there is little to no fan engagement, etc...  It just keeps getting worse and without a push to really involve the fans, I foresee a bleak future.  They, the AD, has to create excitement around the team/program or Apogee will just become a waste of money, the new basketball arena will never happen and future adds like baseball will just be an idea that came too late.  The days of the G5's are on their way out.  It will be whittled down to the top 40 or 50 programs as D1.  We might as well go back to our D1AA days and play at the FCS level.

I am just about done with sports from a financial commitment position.  The greed has ruined it for me.  Their is zero loyalty towards the program by the players.  It is all about them and how much money they can cram in their pockets and it appears our basketball coach encourages the lack of loyalty.  I will watch on television, but that's about it, much like pro sports have become.  I have no interest in attending a Cowboys' game live once the prices became ridiculous, same with the Mav's and Rangers' in that stupid new ballpark that was a waste of money.  I had arrived at a point where I was only willing to invest in watching North Texas live, but the current situation has ruined that as well.  The future of all of college sports is a disaster if some type of control isn't put in place.  It is ridiculous and very sad.

Guess I will end up spending my money on golf, fine food and drink, drugs, etc. and become a more interesting person.

Very sad. But very well stated. 

[cousin oliver]

It is disheartening to see some of our very best such as @UNTLifer begin to question their commitment.

[untjim1995]

9 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

We have complained for years about being left in the dark.  The Mean Green Club was promised quarterly meetings that never took place, now there is little to no coverage of the spring practices, player movement is constant so the days of watching a last second scholarship player developing in to a Hall of Fame performer are long gone ala Johnny Quinn, there is little to no fan engagement, etc...  It just keeps getting worse and without a push to really involve the fans, I foresee a bleak future.  They, the AD, has to create excitement around the team/program or Apogee will just become a waste of money, the new basketball arena will never happen and future adds like baseball will just be an idea that came too late.  The days of the G5's are on their way out.  It will be whittled down to the top 40 or 50 programs as D1.  We might as well go back to our D1AA days and play at the FCS level.

I am just about done with sports from a financial commitment position.  The greed has ruined it for me.  Their is zero loyalty towards the program by the players.  It is all about them and how much money they can cram in their pockets and it appears our basketball coach encourages the lack of loyalty.  I will watch on television, but that's about it, much like pro sports have become.  I have no interest in attending a Cowboys' game live once the prices became ridiculous, same with the Mav's and Rangers' in that stupid new ballpark that was a waste of money.  I had arrived at a point where I was only willing to invest in watching North Texas live, but the current situation has ruined that as well.  The future of all of college sports is a disaster if some type of control isn't put in place.  It is ridiculous and very sad.

Guess I will end up spending my money on golf, fine food and drink, drugs, etc. and become a more interesting person.

You'll see that you will enjoy your time and money a lot more. I quit about 2 years ago, when it became apparent that G5s were just minor leagues for the P5s. I knew it was coming, as I posted about this exact situation for years before on here. And there will be many others that are much higher up the foodchain than us who will see this happen to. I see the breakaway having 30-50 schools for their own athletics. Really, if the top 24 schools wanted to form their own setup, they could easily. Texas, A&M, OU, LSU, etc...they all have the eyeballs and the media and the legislative support from their states. 

I loved getting 6+ hours back on Saturdays in the fall. I loved using those funds towards family trips and better entertainment opportunities for all of us. like concerts and golf. To be honest, the time was better to get back than the money. More time with family and friends on the weekend, as well as more time for stuff with church and the community was the best surprise of all. 

I don't even blame players for getting theirs, either. More money and more exposure in the P5s that these guys grew up rooting for and dreaming of playing for all adds up to an easy decision for these guys. Basically, the players are catching up to what the coaches got to do without any qualms for years. Again, if we hadn't quit on the program back in the early 80's with the ridiculous drop down to i-aa when the SWC was one of the kings of the NCAA, it just nuked the program. You lost generations of fans and alumni from the past and the future, most of whom just picked up another school to root for or just become pro fans only, all while completely dropping the program's status with TX HS coaches and parents, maybe things would be different today, I'd like to guess at a minimum, we could have been a UH type program, maybe higher because of our location. Had we had any vision, the old Big Eight would have been the perfect conference to go all in to join instead of the SWC. We could have given that entire league a DFW presence, instead of just OU. And getting to play OU, Nebraska, Colorado, OSU, KU, KSU, Missouri, and ISU as conference mates in both football and hoops would have jumped us over ALL of the SWC privates. UH and Tech would've been peers instead of being steps above us as SWC members. But we didn't...we just gave up. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

32 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

You'll see that you will enjoy your time and money a lot more. I quit about 2 years ago, when it became apparent that G5s were just minor leagues for the P5s. I knew it was coming, as I posted about this exact situation for years before on here. And there will be many others that are much higher up the foodchain than us who will see this happen to. I see the breakaway having 30-50 schools for their own athletics. Really, if the top 24 schools wanted to form their own setup, they could easily. Texas, A&M, OU, LSU, etc...they all have the eyeballs and the media and the legislative support from their states. 

I loved getting 6+ hours back on Saturdays in the fall. I loved using those funds towards family trips and better entertainment opportunities for all of us. like concerts and golf. To be honest, the time was better to get back than the money. More time with family and friends on the weekend, as well as more time for stuff with church and the community was the best surprise of all. 

I don't even blame players for getting theirs, either. More money and more exposure in the P5s that these guys grew up rooting for and dreaming of playing for all adds up to an easy decision for these guys. Basically, the players are catching up to what the coaches got to do without any qualms for years. Again, if we hadn't quit on the program back in the early 80's with the ridiculous drop down to i-aa when the SWC was one of the kings of the NCAA, it just nuked the program. You lost generations of fans and alumni from the past and the future, most of whom just picked up another school to root for or just become pro fans only, all while completely dropping the program's status with TX HS coaches and parents, maybe things would be different today, I'd like to guess at a minimum, we could have been a UH type program, maybe higher because of our location. Had we had any vision, the old Big Eight would have been the perfect conference to go all in to join instead of the SWC. We could have given that entire league a DFW presence, instead of just OU. And getting to play OU, Nebraska, Colorado, OSU, KU, KSU, Missouri, and ISU as conference mates in both football and hoops would have jumped us over ALL of the SWC privates. UH and Tech would've been peers instead of being steps above us as SWC members. But we didn't...we just gave up. 

It's not as easy as it was to be invited to the top anymore. Everyone wants to be up at the top, so universities throw money at their programs hoping it happens. In the 80's if you threw money at your program then you had a real shot. Now, it's all based on brand recognition and perception. Though what you are saying has a lot of credence to it, but I think the downfall of the university's athletics started when the university started to push the "university for all" bullshit. And though I think that's a slogan that's not that dated, that's not what I am referencing. I am more so referring to when the push was artsy and music students, and then this liberal inclusion bullshit. Sport people USUALLY don't share those beliefs and/or interests. And when you're making a gigantic bulk of your enrollment that, well, our student and alum involvement turns out to be the result. The drop down certainly did alienate a large % of fans in that window of time, but in the 21st century our problem is what and who we're catering to. 

[SMU2006]

I don't understand all the hand wringing.  I think UNT is positioned about as well as anyone in the G5 to consistently contend for the at-large playoff spot.  Its undeniable that access to the playoff is at a level never seen before at the G5 level.  Financially there shouldn't be many G5's that will outspend UNT (if the collective has its sh*t together).  There is more premium talent in the portal from the DFW area than you can shake a stick at.  There are only so many places those prospects can go.  Why not UNT?

Use the system to your advantage.  Go poach some talent in the portal that would've never considered UNT out of high school.  Its how you build depth and increase competition.  It can also be done at a relatively low cost for certain positions.  

The doom and gloom is misplaced (for now).  I do, however, think there will be an eventual break away by the P4 but that is years away.  

[untjim1995]

11 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

It's not as easy as it was to be invited to the top anymore. Everyone wants to be up at the top, so universities throw money at their programs hoping it happens. In the 80's if you threw money at your program then you had a real shot. Now, it's all based on brand recognition and perception. Though what you are saying has a lot of credence to it, but I think the downfall of the university's athletics started when the university started to push the "university for all" bullshit. And though I think that's a slogan that's not that dated, that's not what I am referencing. I am more so referring to when the push was artsy and music students, and then this liberal inclusion bullshit. Sport people USUALLY don't share those beliefs and/or interests. And when you're making a gigantic bulk of your enrollment that, well, our student and alum involvement turns out to be the result. The drop down certainly did alienate a large % of fans in that window of time, but in the 21st century our problem is what and who we're catering to. 

Absolutely--all of this. My son is going off to college in the fall. Both of his parents are UNT grads, but he wanted nothing to do with coming here, because he wanted to go somewhere that had good academics AND that athletics mattered, just like his best friends and cousins all felt. So, he's heading to one of those P4s and we are very excited for him. 

I just think if we hadn't given up after the SWC pipe dream was burst, it would've been different here...a lot different, too. Again, I think UH was who we could've been just like. In the mid-to-late 70s, our programs were very similar. Both were successful as independents. UH got into the SWC because they only had little ol' Rice to compete with in their market. And they were hugely successful immediately, in both major sports. That got a lot of Houston Energy Money to be invested in their program. We could've emulated that in some fashion, but instead, Hayden Fry leaves and we eventually gave up. That was just too much to overcome, particularly in the timeframe you mention above.

UCF moved up to FBS right around the time we made our way back up in 1995. But they didn't have alumni and students that watched their school blow off sports for 12 years like we did. They went about building up a program in a manner that made sense and today, they are in the Big 12. No reason at all that we couldn't have been something like this today if we had made athletics a priority. Instead, we decided that I-A was a way to make more money by whoring out the program and playing at a toilet for decades. Those decisions still have ramifications that killed any chance of us being anything close to what we wanted to be. And the portal bit has killed college sports for me. I literally watched about 3 games of college football last year. And college basketball, which is my first love, is also losing its appeal, too. The NIL, while I'm not a fan of it, I understand why its there. The portal, though, is just too much for me to accept. It's just not worth my time or money to invest in it when the players are using that system to move up from Denton as soon as they can. I don't blame them, either. But college sports was built on familiarity and the players being "ours". That's just no longer a viewpoint that I feel anymore when any player that produces in any fashion just can leave at any time they choose. 

 

 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

6 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

I don't understand all the hand wringing.  I think UNT is positioned about as well as anyone in the G5 to consistently contend for the at-large playoff spot.  Its undeniable that access to the playoff is at a level never seen before at the G5 level.  Financially there shouldn't be many G5's that will outspend UNT (if the collective has its sh*t together).  There is more premium talent in the portal from the DFW area than you can shake a stick at.  There are only so many places those prospects can go.  Why not UNT?

Use the system to your advantage.  Go poach some talent in the portal that would've never considered UNT out of high school.  Its how you build depth and increase competition.  It can also be done at a relatively low cost for certain positions.  

The doom and gloom is misplaced (for now).  I do, however, think there will be an eventual break away by the P4 but that is years away.  

It's not really doom and gloom. It's a pattern of behavior that has led to a pattern of results. We are cash poor, we spend average money, our collective is in the bottom third of our own peers, and we are perceptually a weird, liberal arts college (some truth to that). The Why not North Texas mantra has been ran through by coaches, players, administrators, and alum. There is a list of reasons as to why not North Texas. I don't want it to be this way. I don't like it. But it just is. 

[SMU2006]

9 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

It's not really doom and gloom. It's a pattern of behavior that has led to a pattern of results. We are cash poor, we spend average money, our collective is in the bottom third of our own peers, and we are perceptually a weird, liberal arts college (some truth to that). The Why not North Texas mantra has been ran through by coaches, players, administrators, and alum. There is a list of reasons as to why not North Texas. I don't want it to be this way. I don't like it. But it just is. 

Sorry I'm not buying that.  UNT can and should be among the upper tier of G5 programs.  Location alone gives you a huge advantage.  Facilities are among the top half of G5.  Coaches are being compensated at or near the top of the AAC.  The foundation is there.

NIL, for better or worse, is the new coin of the realm (along with the portal).  It can be done.  I'd rather have the resources at UNT as opposed to nearly all other G5's.  

[SMU2006]

21 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Absolutely--all of this. My son is going off to college in the fall. Both of his parents are UNT grads, but he wanted nothing to do with coming here, because he wanted to go somewhere that had good academics AND that athletics mattered, just like his best friends and cousins all felt. So, he's heading to one of those P4s and we are very excited for him. 

I just think if we hadn't given up after the SWC pipe dream was burst, it would've been different here...a lot different, too. Again, I think UH was who we could've been just like. In the mid-to-late 70s, our programs were very similar. Both were successful as independents. UH got into the SWC because they only had little ol' Rice to compete with in their market. And they were hugely successful immediately, in both major sports. That got a lot of Houston Energy Money to be invested in their program. We could've emulated that in some fashion, but instead, Hayden Fry leaves and we eventually gave up. That was just too much to overcome, particularly in the timeframe you mention above.

UCF moved up to FBS right around the time we made our way back up in 1995. But they didn't have alumni and students that watched their school blow off sports for 12 years like we did. They went about building up a program in a manner that made sense and today, they are in the Big 12. No reason at all that we couldn't have been something like this today if we had made athletics a priority. Instead, we decided that I-A was a way to make more money by whoring out the program and playing at a toilet for decades. Those decisions still have ramifications that killed any chance of us being anything close to what we wanted to be. And the portal bit has killed college sports for me. I literally watched about 3 games of college football last year. And college basketball, which is my first love, is also losing its appeal, too. The NIL, while I'm not a fan of it, I understand why its there. The portal, though, is just too much for me to accept. It's just not worth my time or money to invest in it when the players are using that system to move up from Denton as soon as they can. I don't blame them, either. But college sports was built on familiarity and the players being "ours". That's just no longer a viewpoint that I feel anymore when any player that produces in any fashion just can leave at any time they choose. 

 

 

Please explain to me how the portal has killed college football for you.  Coaches have left schools/players in the lurch for decades.  Should a kid that is buried on the depth chart somewhere be forced to stay and waste the best years of his life?  How many kids have transferred and then gone on to play in the NFL?  

People are upset that the players actually have power now.  The players who put their own body and potential future health at risk for the enjoyment of a bunch of middle-aged dudes.  The players who spend virtually every waking hour in class, practice, training, lifting, running, studying, etc.   Its about damn time they've rightfully been given the freedom to go where they want and to be finanially compensated.

[untjim1995]

3 minutes ago, SMU2006 said:

Sorry I'm not buying that.  UNT can and should be among the upper tier of G5 programs.  Location alone gives you a huge advantage.  Facilities are among the top half of G5.  Coaches are being compensated at or near the top of the AAC.  The foundation is there.

NIL, for better or worse, is the new coin of the realm (along with the portal).  It can be done.  I'd rather have the resources at UNT as opposed to nearly all other G5's.  

Memphis just got FedEx to pony up $25 million for the next 5 years for NIL for football, hoops, and other women's sports. That's not counting their money they give for sponsorship of their athletic department. 

We have nothing like this. Maybe some G5s do, but most don't.

[SMU2006]

4 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Memphis just got FedEx to pony up $25 million for the next 5 years for NIL for football, hoops, and other women's sports. That's not counting their money they give for sponsorship of their athletic department. 

We have nothing like this. Maybe some G5s do, but most don't.

Its still Memphis.  There are infinitely more talented prospects within 100 mile radius of UNT than in the entire state of TN.  Memphis is a straw man argument.

[untjim1995]

1 minute ago, SMU2006 said:

Please explain to me how the portal has killed college football for you.  Coaches have left schools/players in the lurch for decades.  Should a kid that is buried on the depth chart somewhere be forced to stay and waste the best years of his life?  How many kids have transferred and then gone on to play in the NFL?  

People are upset that the players actually have power now.  The players who put their own body and potential future health at risk for the enjoyment of a bunch of middle-aged dudes.  The players who spend virtually every waking hour in class, practice, training, lifting, running, studying, etc.   Its about damn time they've rightfully been given the freedom to go where they want and to be finanially compensated.

Because G5 players aren't leaving because they are buried on the depth chart and can get playing time at some P4, they are leaving because they can play at this level and the P4 schools know they can buy them away easily.

Y'all will use your money, just like y'all always do, to buy players away from G5s now that you're in the ACC. Before, you could take advantage of Power kids transferring to you for playing time and money against G5s. Now, you'll switch this up and raid Denton, San Antonio, Ruston, Tulsa, etc...

That's just not worth my time or money. I got better things to do. If others feel differently, that's awesome. But that's 180 degrees away from the college sports I enjoyed as a young man and adult. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 minute ago, SMU2006 said:

Its still Memphis.  There are infinitely more talented prospects within 100 mile radius of UNT than in the entire state of TN.  Memphis is a straw man argument.

I don't think you're very familiar with UNT athletics, particularly football. Let's just circle back to this conversation in 10 years. I hope you're right.