Recruiting Update

Cerebus · November 7, 2016

On 11/3/2016 at 10:46 PM, BillySee58 said:

On an individual level, there are all kinds of examples of players with pedestrian offer lists, or two-stars becoming exceptional players, or the opposite. But study after study has shown that the more highly recruited/rated player, the higher likelihood of that player becoming a starter/all-conference/drafted/etc. Over the course of a recruiting class or a roster, it just becomes an example of the law of averages.

This.

I have posted links so many times that I am tired of doing it. I have seriously considered pinning them to this forum.

For every Chris Hurd that goes from being a no other offer walk on to being an all conference players you have 100 players who never crack the two deep. You might ever once in a while get all conference performance out of people with no other offers, but the majority of them are going to be marginal contributors at best.

What it comes down to is that we need to win more head to head recruiting battles. It won't matter that this staff can game plan and coach the people we have to their max potential if we just get out recruited. It's not like those other staffs don't also coach and game plan. When you run into staffs that can out recruit you and are at least competent then you get results like last weekends LaTech game. That team just was able to win a lot more 1 on 1 match ups because of their talent.

I don't get why so many people on the board are confused by our 1-3 record against UTSA either, they have whipped us on the recruiting front for the most part.

DeepGreen · November 7, 2016

Cerebus I'd give you a +1 on your post if I could.

Aside from past coaches who did not do exceptionally well recruiting at UNT for whatever reason, I wish I could pin point the exact reason we do not recruit better. La Tech and UTSA certainly recruit better than UNT. Why can't we sell the 3 and 4 star recruits on signing with UNT? Something is wrong with UNT. Really good players don't come here for a reason. And it's no longer about facilities, stadium, etc. Except for the lack of polls for dancing and glitzy locker room ceilings, we seem to have most of everything needed.

What's missing?

Ben Gooding · November 7, 2016

2 hours ago, Cerebus said:

This.

I have posted links so many times that I am tired of doing it. I have seriously considered pinning them to this forum.

For every Chris Hurd that goes from being a no other offer walk on to being an all conference players you have 100 players who never crack the two deep. You might ever once in a while get all conference performance out of people with no other offers, but the majority of them are going to be marginal contributors at best.

What it comes down to is that we need to win more head to head recruiting battles. It won't matter that this staff can game plan and coach the people we have to their max potential if we just get out recruited. It's not like those other staffs don't also coach and game plan. When you run into staffs that can out recruit you and are at least competent then you get results like last weekends LaTech game. That team just was able to win a lot more 1 on 1 match ups because of their talent.

I don't get why so many people on the board are confused by our 1-3 record against UTSA either, they have whipped us on the recruiting front for the most part.

Kind of goes back to an article wrote by Brett during the utsa week about them going the proven recruiter route and us going the offensive X and O route. I said then and say now, give me the recruiter over the X and O guy. I think it was Bear Bryant that said a good coach can beat you with his players, but a great coach can beat you with his players and then take your players and beat you with them too. If there is a big discrepancy in the talent of the players then, good luck Paul. X's and O's is a huge component of success on the field. Monumentally big. But having dudes on your team is maybe just as important. Betting your hand on your X's and O's is a recipe for disaster. That is why I have hated hearing these recent comments from Littrell saying he doesn't really care about ratings, he just wants to get guys that fit his system. That's a slippery slope to even think about stepping on. Go get players that fit your mold that have equal or greater talent than the average CUSA player. That means you will HAVE to out recruit the competition. And if you do not, you will not win.

BillySee58 · November 8, 2016

8 hours ago, Cerebus said:

This.

I have posted links so many times that I am tired of doing it. I have seriously considered pinning them to this forum.

For every Chris Hurd that goes from being a no other offer walk on to being an all conference players you have 100 players who never crack the two deep. You might ever once in a while get all conference performance out of people with no other offers, but the majority of them are going to be marginal contributors at best.

What it comes down to is that we need to win more head to head recruiting battles. It won't matter that this staff can game plan and coach the people we have to their max potential if we just get out recruited. It's not like those other staffs don't also coach and game plan. When you run into staffs that can out recruit you and are at least competent then you get results like last weekends LaTech game. That team just was able to win a lot more 1 on 1 match ups because of their talent.

I don't get why so many people on the board are confused by our 1-3 record against UTSA either, they have whipped us on the recruiting front for the most part.

And to add to that, the idea that it doesn't matter if our signees don't have any other offers as long as Littrell thinks they can play and they fit our system is flawed, similarly.

The other coaches are recruiting to their system as well. And the other coaches are good evaluators as well. There is no shortcut from winning recruiting battles for players other teams want.

ttunt1970 · November 8, 2016

Just look at what Mike Leach with basically second level talent!

Ben Gooding · November 8, 2016

53 minutes ago, ttunt1970 said:

Just look at what Mike Leach with basically second level talent!

We have to win recruiting battles. I'm more anxious about this recruiting cycle than I have been or will be about any game this season.

MeanGreen13 · November 8, 2016

1 hour ago, ttunt1970 said:

Just look at what Mike Leach with basically second level talent!

that 2nd tier talent was still significantly better than what we are currently getting.

BillySee58 · November 8, 2016

2 hours ago, ttunt1970 said:

Just look at what Mike Leach with basically second level talent!

True, but his program didn't really compete with the best of the Big XII until he got these 4-star recruits who were offered by some of the top programs in the country.

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/11828

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/15117

BTG_Fan1 · November 8, 2016

Honestly, getting just aBig time QB could and would flip this program quickly..

Eagle-96 · November 8, 2016

20 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Kind of goes back to an article wrote by Brett during the utsa week about them going the proven recruiter route and us going the offensive X and O route. I said then and say now, give me the recruiter over the X and O guy. I think it was Bear Bryant that said a good coach can beat you with his players, but a great coach can beat you with his players and then take your players and beat you with them too. If there is a big discrepancy in the talent of the players then, good luck Paul. X's and O's is a huge component of success on the field. Monumentally big. But having dudes on your team is maybe just as important. Betting your hand on your X's and O's is a recipe for disaster. That is why I have hated hearing these recent comments from Littrell saying he doesn't really care about ratings, he just wants to get guys that fit his system. That's a slippery slope to even think about stepping on. Go get players that fit your mold that have equal or greater talent than the average CUSA player. That means you will HAVE to out recruit the competition. And if you do not, you will not win.

Vic Trilli and Tony Benford are/were great recruiters for UNT in Basketball.

Todd Dodge was a great recruiter for UNT in football.

Trilli and Dodge oversaw the worst periods in their respective sports at UNT and Benford is about to get run out of town. Recruiting is important but you HAVE to be able to coach those players.

Ben Gooding · November 8, 2016

10 minutes ago, Eagle-96 said:

Vic Trilli and Tony Benford are/were great recruiters for UNT in Basketball.

Todd Dodge was a great recruiter for UNT in football.

Trilli and Dodge oversaw the worst periods in their respective sports at UNT and Benford is about to get run out of town. Recruiting is important but you HAVE to be able to coach those players.

I agree. That's why hiring quality coordinators is paramount. But the face of your program better be very effective at selling recruits the program or X's and O's will be an afterthought.

Cerebus · November 8, 2016

9 hours ago, BTG_Fan1 said:

Honestly, getting just aBig time QB could and would flip this program quickly..

That won't matter if he is spending the majority of the game picking himself up off the ground. Football isn't basketball, one guy can't carry a team if the other parts are subpar.

Withers940 · November 8, 2016

23 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

Cerebus I'd give you a +1 on your post if I could.

Aside from past coaches who did not do exceptionally well recruiting at UNT for whatever reason, I wish I could pin point the exact reason we do not recruit better. La Tech and UTSA certainly recruit better than UNT. Why can't we sell the 3 and 4 star recruits on signing with UNT? Something is wrong with UNT. Really good players don't come here for a reason. And it's no longer about facilities, stadium, etc. Except for the lack of polls for dancing and glitzy locker room ceilings, we seem to have most of everything needed.

What's missing?

We should be able to pull in more 3 stars but 4 stars have better places to go until we start winning or move up in Conferences

UNTLifer · November 8, 2016

There is no reason we shouldn't be attracting a least a half a class of 3 star players.

Hunter Green · November 8, 2016

23 hours ago, Ben Gooding said:

Kind of goes back to an article wrote by Brett during the utsa week about them going the proven recruiter route and us going the offensive X and O route. I said then and say now, give me the recruiter over the X and O guy. I think it was Bear Bryant that said a good coach can beat you with his players, but a great coach can beat you with his players and then take your players and beat you with them too. If there is a big discrepancy in the talent of the players then, good luck Paul. X's and O's is a huge component of success on the field. Monumentally big. But having dudes on your team is maybe just as important. Betting your hand on your X's and O's is a recipe for disaster. That is why I have hated hearing these recent comments from Littrell saying he doesn't really care about ratings, he just wants to get guys that fit his system. That's a slippery slope to even think about stepping on. Go get players that fit your mold that have equal or greater talent than the average CUSA player. That means you will HAVE to out recruit the competition. And if you do not, you will not win.

Vic Trilli

Ben Gooding · November 8, 2016

49 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

There is no reason we shouldn't be attracting a least a half a class of 3 star players.

The consistent gold standard for a progressing G5 program is to sign double digit composite 3* recruits on NSD. It's what all the model G5's pull in on a consistent basis such as Boise, SDSU, CSU, UH, Navy, Toledo*, USM, La Tech, *NIU, etc.

*Some years