MGB: Report says C-USA TV revenue will fall by about half

[outoftown]

28 minutes ago, greenit said:

Other than Alabama, who is it exactly that CUSA should have added?

Banowsky really screwed up by not adding Alabama.

Of the choices available, I am not sure what exactly could have been done differently once teams started leaving for yAAC.  CUSA teams are going to have to start winning with some regularity and the brand will build.  the AAC has plenty of stinker teams in various sports but they have a few teams in football and a few teams in basketball that bring a little something to the table.  CUSA needs to do the same, and it needs to involve some of our teams in larger markets that can develop larger followings.

I would say Banowsky jumped the gun on several things. In particular he added Charlotte and ODU to appease an ECU program where it was always predictable that it was going to leave. We got stuck with the remains. That diluted the conference right there and divided the pie more than necessary at a time when C-USA was not in danger of falling appart anymore.

One can be dividied on whether -to a smaller degree- the FIU and -to a bigger degree- the FAU additions were necessary (since FAU was added later and the conference basically already had a foot in the Florida recruiting ground with a very similar team). In essence Banowsky tried to create too big a footprint - too focused on tv markets- at the expense of a more coherent conference identity. Right now C-USA is feeling a bit like a random assembly of programs. There is a group of sun belt refugees, some are old C-USA, some are start-ups. Some are private, some are public some are in texas, some in the south, some in the east and then there are some Florida teams for good measure (plural every time). Not having a well definable identity is something that hurts C-USA quite a bit because it makes it a lot harder to market. Lack of identity is a problem we share with the AAC, although the AAC has better known teams though which helps at least a little bit in marketing. But on the Identity score we are way behind the MAC, and MWC and maybe even a little behind the Sun-belt. There is a number of reasons MAC teams were not really angling to get out of the MAC, lack of opportunity is one, but being comfortable with the conferences clear identity is another important one. Seeing as how heterogenous C-USA is I am not completely sure that time will completely solve the branding issue. For C-USA adding ULL, USA, arkie State, Georgia southern or even Texas State would have done more to create a homogenous conference Identity than adding FAU, ODU or Charlotte did. 

Edited January 13, 2016 by outoftown

[Army of Dad]

51 minutes ago, greenit said:

Other than Alabama, who is it exactly that CUSA should have added?

Banowsky really screwed up by not adding Alabama.

Of the choices available, I am not sure what exactly could have been done differently once teams started leaving for yAAC.  CUSA teams are going to have to start winning with some regularity and the brand will build.  the AAC has plenty of stinker teams in various sports but they have a few teams in football and a few teams in basketball that bring a little something to the table.  CUSA needs to do the same, and it needs to involve some of our teams in larger markets that can develop larger followings.

Could/should have said no to F_U.

24 minutes ago, outoftown said:

I would say Banowsky jumped the gun on several things. In particular he added Charlotte and ODU to appease an ECU program where it was always predictable that it was going to leave. We got stuck with the remains. That diluted the conference right there and divided the pie more than necessary at a time when C-USA was not in danger of falling appart anymore.

One can be dividied on whether -to a smaller degree- the FIU and -to a bigger degree- the FAU additions were necessary (since FAU was added later and the conference basically already had a foot in the Florida recruiting ground with a very similar team). In essence Banowsky tried to create too big a footprint - too focused on tv markets- at the expense of a more coherent conference identity. Right now C-USA is feeling a bit like a random assembly of programs. There is a group of sun belt refugees, some are old C-USA, some are start-ups. Some are private, some are public some are in texas, some in the south, some in the east and then there are some Florida teams for good measure (plural every time). Not having a well definable identity is something that hurts C-USA quite a bit because it makes it a lot harder to market. Lack of identity is a problem we share with the AAC, although the AAC has better known teams though which helps at least a little bit in marketing. But on the Identity score we are way behind the MAC, and MWC and maybe even a little behind the Sun-belt. There is a number of reasons MAC teams were not really angling to get out of the MAC, lack of opportunity is one, but being comfortable with the conferences clear identity is another important one. Seeing as how heterogenous C-USA is I am not completely sure that time will completely solve the branding issue. For C-USA adding ULL, USA, arkie State, Georgia southern or even Texas State would have done more to create a homogenous conference Identity than adding FAU, ODU or Charlotte did. 

I think ODU is a decent add. Charlotte could be, but I'm far more skeptical of them than ODU.

[Arkstfan]

Bankowsky didn't add anyone. The voting schools added members.

Bankowsky initially wanted to look at 9 and 10 team models but ECU, Marshall, and UAB wanted more eastern members. Needed seven votes to expand and had five for the model he wanted.

You don't like how the CUSA line-up looks the blame for the six team expansion rests on UTEP, Rice, USM, UAB, Marshall, ECU, Tulsa, Tulane.

Bankowsky once he saw what he had and what the likely reaction of TV of would be he advised the membership to go to 16 by adding two in the west to reduce travel costs to offset falling TV revenue and hopefully stabilize UAB by taking travel stress off their budget.

The eastern membership revolted.

Only in college sports does a guy get blamed for the failings of an organization when the organization rejected his advice.

[Travis]

1 hour ago, greenit said:

Other than Alabama, who is it exactly that CUSA should have added?

Banowsky really screwed up by not adding Alabama.

Of the choices available, I am not sure what exactly could have been done differently once teams started leaving for yAAC.  CUSA teams are going to have to start winning with some regularity and the brand will build.  the AAC has plenty of stinker teams in various sports but they have a few teams in football and a few teams in basketball that bring a little something to the table.  CUSA needs to do the same, and it needs to involve some of our teams in larger markets that can develop larger followings.

Perhaps less FBS start ups.  There were a few much better programs such as Arkansas State and La-La that I would have added before F_U's or Charlotte and company.

[untjim1995]

Yeah, CUSA was very poachable by the AAC, once the Big East fell apart. Most of the AAC's parts that are valuable to other conferences all got picked off (Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, TCU, and Louisville) and they had to replace them with the best of what was left--UH, SMU, UCF, ECU, Temple, Memphis, Navy, Tulane, and Tulsa all joined with UConn, USF,and Cincy. If you got left behind in CUSA, its only because you either had no TV value at all or your geography hurt you--see UAB, USM, Marshall, Rice, and UTEP.

What CUSA added were teams like La Tech and WKU that fit the mold of the other CUSA teams that had to stay behind because of small markets, but the rest of the adds were simply based on TV markets. The only problem with that is that the college football world doesn't give one rip about us, UTSA, F_U, MUTS, ODU, or Charlotte, nor do they give a rip about any SBC school. To me, this is where the MWC and MAC have it right in doing everything geographically. The MAC schools know what they are, which is a collection of schools that are able to make each other better because of the tightness of the geography around most of their membership--i.e., travel costs are better for teams and fans. The MWC, while more spread out, obviously, still have some very strong rivalries and easier travel amongst its membership than anything the SBCUSAAAC teams have--that's all because the teams in the South all want to look down their noses at other schools instead of being conference mates with them (see SMU-UNT, UTEP-NMSU, La Tech--ULM) for recruiting purposes. It figuratively cuts off your individual nose to spite your conference face...

[Aquila_Viridis]

We just need to change the name of the conference to Suck Ass Conference of Knuckleheads and then we can have a cool hashtag of #SACKtion like ESPN shows for MAC games on Tuesday nights #MACtion.

[greenit]

I don't think ArkState or ULL had much of an impact on teams added to the East.  From what I have seen, the teams from the East wanted teams in Florida.  Most of us don't have an appreciation for the reasons the teams in the East want Florida teams.  It doesn't make much sense to me, but they seem to put a lot of importance on having them.  ODU and Charlotte seem like reasonable enough adds and fit nicely in the Mid Atlantic area.  From a competitive standpoint, maybe Georgia Southern might have made sense, but they are a recent move up as well and are a smallish school in a remote location.

I think all of the potential additions had cons to go along with a few pros.

Since I really don't care that much about the teams in the East, I would certainly prefer to have the teams in our current division plus a few more regional teams to get to 9 or 10 total teams, but that doesn't seem like it was ever an option.

[Mike Jackson]

20 hours ago, wardly said:

How could we possibly ask CUSA to kick out FAU and FIU? They bring as much to the table as our program does, which isn't much.

We bring 100+ years of football history to the table also we have  multiple regional conference rivals.  FIU and FAU don't have either of those things.  We also have 60 more years history as an academic institution fundamental to the history and growth of a city.  If you are comparing our situation in a metro area to them don't.  The University of Miami in its heyday unified all of Miami and had a national following, SMU, nor TCU ever did that in DFW.   The closet CUSA school to Miami is Charlotte 729 miles or a 2 hour flight away the next closest is UAB 809 miles or a 2 hour flight away.   So it would not be just "us" asking them to leave, they just don't fit with the rest of the conference.  Geographically they make way more since in  the AAC.   The AAC doesn't want them and I am not even sure the Sun Belt would be excited to have them back.   When the U with their relatively recent national championships, notable NFL alumni, and etc has trouble drawing fans what real hope is there for FIU and FAU?  We all know that losing is worst thing for your schools athletic brand.   But having a complicated confusing name is almost just as bad.  Name a public FBS level school that with a decent athletic brand that has anything but a State, City, or single cardinal direction in its name?  I come up with Rutgers and beyond that I am drawing a total blank.

[Arkstfan]

51 minutes ago, greenit said:

I don't think ArkState or ULL had much of an impact on teams added to the East.  From what I have seen, the teams from the East wanted teams in Florida.  Most of us don't have an appreciation for the reasons the teams in the East want Florida teams.  It doesn't make much sense to me, but they seem to put a lot of importance on having them.  ODU and Charlotte seem like reasonable enough adds and fit nicely in the Mid Atlantic area.  From a competitive standpoint, maybe Georgia Southern might have made sense, but they are a recent move up as well and are a smallish school in a remote location.

I think all of the potential additions had cons to go along with a few pros.

Since I really don't care that much about the teams in the East, I would certainly prefer to have the teams in our current division plus a few more regional teams to get to 9 or 10 total teams, but that doesn't seem like it was ever an option.

There was a lot of history to what went on when the Big East raids started.

ECU for years advocated taking CUSA to 16, they made no bones about it, they didn't like traveling to Texas and were kind enough to say they assumed the Texas teams didn't like traveling to them.

The long-term goal ECU had was expand to 16 and after five years split into two conferences, east and west. The problem for most of that time was there weren't many eastern choices. ODU, Charlotte, App, Georgia Southern, Georgia State either didn't have football  or weren't making noise about wanting to be FBS. UCF was adamant about not adding FIU or FAU.

With the raid, circumstances were different. UCF was no longer around to object to FIU and FAU, ODU had hired Wood Selig with the intention of moving FBS. Charlotte had chosen to add football, etc.

The dynamic in CUSA is very different now. Despite how the divisions line up, there are 8 eastern schools. While FIU/FAU are culturally different from the rest of the division, they are mostly going to line up with the other five and UAB is for all intents and CUSA East school in who they deem a peer. That gives you six western members though if push came to shove in CUSA in a battle over the future, USM is a wildcard that could easily swing to vote with the East and from what I gather LaTech in such a situation would cast its lot with USM. If the question is posed regarding the conference tournament USM would likely vote for MTSU/WKU/UAB favored Nashville over DFW, San Antonio or Houston if the money is close. USM is recruiting Texas more with the schedule changes but historically they built their teams recruiting Florida and didn't venture very far west of New Orleans. 

In CUSA 2.0 the west started in New Orleans and USM was an eastern school. Now the "west" starts in Birmingham.

CUSA made a big cultural shift with the expansion. When Bankowsky wanted to go to 16 with two more western schools, it derailed by because ODU's Selig, and MTSU's Massaro publicly advocated that there be no expansion unless JMU was one of the schools. They basically said unless the east imbalance is preserved, we will not support expansion.

[Arkstfan]

25 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

We bring 100+ years of football history to the table also we have  multiple regional conference rivals.  FIU and FAU don't have either of those things.  We also have 60 more years history as an academic institution fundamental to the history and growth of a city.  If you are comparing our situation in a metro area to them don't.  The University of Miami in its heyday unified all of Miami and had a national following, SMU, nor TCU ever did that in DFW.   The closet CUSA school to Miami is Charlotte 729 miles or a 2 hour flight away the next closest is UAB 809 miles or a 2 hour flight away.   So it would not be just "us" asking them to leave, they just don't fit with the rest of the conference.  Geographically they make way more since in  the AAC.   The AAC doesn't want them and I am not even sure the Sun Belt would be excited to have them back.   When the U with their relatively recent national championships, notable NFL alumni, and etc has trouble drawing fans what real hope is there for FIU and FAU?  We all know that losing is worst thing for your schools athletic brand.   But having a complicated confusing name is almost just as bad.  Name a public FBS level school that with a decent athletic brand that has anything but a State, City, or single cardinal direction in its name?  I come up with Rutgers and beyond that I am drawing a total blank.

You are viewing it through a Texas lens. The eastern CUSA schools deem FIU and FAU integral to the conference. The fact that they can't draw flies isn't a worry. They want to sell to Florida players that they are going to play in Florida every season, if you are Marshall recruiting against FIU and FAU, the best thing in the world is to get the kid to come to Huntington for a game visit then let them visit an FIU or FAU game. Sure they have to worry about the kid wanting to stay close to home but the kid is going to be more impressed by the crowd in Huntington than the crowd in Boca or Miami.

[Mike Jackson]

8 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

You are viewing it through a Texas lens. The eastern CUSA schools deem FIU and FAU integral to the conference. The fact that they can't draw flies isn't a worry. They want to sell to Florida players that they are going to play in Florida every season, if you are Marshall recruiting against FIU and FAU, the best thing in the world is to get the kid to come to Huntington for a game visit then let them visit an FIU or FAU game. Sure they have to worry about the kid wanting to stay close to home but the kid is going to be more impressed by the crowd in Huntington than the crowd in Boca or Miami.

I am not looking at it through Texas eyes.  I am looking at it through FIU and FAU administrators eyes.  This is a recipe that will have the programs die at FIU and FAU eventually.  Do you really think the administrators at these schools watching money bleed out of the school through the athletic department care about being good recruiting ground for the rest of CUSA East?  What is in it of for these two school fitting the bill?  I agree it is great for Marshall, UAB and Western Kentucky but what are FAU and FIU getting out of this deal?  They might as well go independent and save travel cost.  Since it is a good recruiting ground they could work out home and home deals with some of the better G5 schools.  Hell even Notre Dame might work at 1-2 or 1-3 deal with them with the one game in Miami in the Dolphins Stadium.  I don't mind playing one of them every 2 years in football but for the other sports it just doesn't make sense.

[Arkstfan]

12 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

I am not looking at it through Texas eyes.  I am looking at it through FIU and FAU administrators eyes.  This is a recipe that will have the programs die at FIU and FAU eventually.  Do you really think the administrators at these schools watching money bleed out of the school through the athletic department care about being good recruiting ground for the rest of CUSA East?  What is in it of for these two school fitting the bill?  I agree it is great for Marshall, UAB and Western Kentucky but what are FAU and FIU getting out of this deal?  They might as well go independent and save travel cost.  Since it is a good recruiting ground they could work out home and home deals with some of the better G5 schools.  Hell even Notre Dame might work at 1-2 or 1-3 deal with them with the one game in Miami in the Dolphins Stadium.  I don't mind playing one of them every 2 years in football but for the other sports it just doesn't make sense.

FIU and FAU have no other options. There is no other viable conference option for them in FBS or even FCS that is any better on travel.

[wardly]

FIU is worthy of being in CUSA because of their "Golden Girls" dance team if nothing else. Any female performers that use a basketball goal post as a stripper pole is "conference worthy" in my opinion.In a more perfect world, I would like to see a 10 school "Southwest Athletic Association" comprised of UNT,UTSA,Rice,Texas State,ULL,LA.Tech, Ark. State,UAB, and So.Miss. .UTEP would be a consideration if UAB or SO.Miss balked, but they are out of this proposed footprint. SMU,Tulsa,Houston and Tulane are never going to join as they have a good position in AAC.Finally, any type of regional conference similar to the MAC or old SWC will not work because it just might make sense.It would allow us to play a round robin schedule which I personally prefer, but I have no idea as to impact on TV dollars.

[greenit]

One of the biggest arguments against the small footprint regional conference is TV $'s.  If CUSA TV $'s keep shrinking, there won't be as much of an argument.

[VideoEagle]

6 minutes ago, greenit said:

One of the biggest arguments against the small footprint regional conference is TV $'s.  If CUSA TV $'s keep shrinking, there won't be as much of an argument.

Actually, a smaller footprint is worth more to a regional tv network like FoxSw. A UNT vs Utsa game draws better in their selected markets when it would not draw at al nationally. 

[Wag Tag]

On January 12, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Brett Vito said:

MGB:

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2016/01/report-c-usa-television-revenue-will-decline-dramatically.html/

 

How about a championship game with the MAC? Maybe MWC.. Generate TV rev for both conf and a crowd. The have nots should sit down together !

[untjim1995]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 0:28 PM, Wag Tag said:

How about a championship game with the MAC? Maybe MWC.. Generate TV rev for both conf and a crowd. The have nots should sit down together !

This was the old CUSA and MWC were talking about doing back in 2010, basically merging without merging, having their conference champions play each other in a G5 Super Bowl. That was when CUSA was the AAC. I think they were holding out hope that it would get them an automatic spot in the old BCS formula, along with the Big East, Big XII, Pac 10, Big Ten, and ACC.

That old collection of MWC teams, with TCU, Utah, and BYU was stout, often finishing better than the Big East or ACC champ. But the Pac 10 had no interest in helping the MWC in becoming a Power League. They took Utah for three reasons in 2010: Because the Texoma contingent backed out of joining the Pac with Colorado, Utah was an easy add and represented a travel partner for CU and a growing market, and it got Orrin Hatch to back off the whole BCS monopoly talk, since Utah was the lead guy being left out and he had some power within Congress with powerful friends.

I still like the MWC's makeup a lot and a Texas school or collection of Texas schools will find their way over there, eventually. UTEP and Rice are already begin rumored to want to go that route with the way things are going in CUSA. I'd absolutely love it if we and UTSA went with them to get to 16 members over there. Imagine a division with us, Rice, UTSA, UTEP, UNM, CSU, Air Force, and Wyoming. You have those 7 conference games, plus a game on the road and a game at home against the other division that would have Hawaii, SDSU, Fresno State, SJSU, Nevada, UNLV, Utah State, and Boise State. Make it a rule that the CST teams can't start after 7pm PST when playing out there and PST teams cannot start before 3pm CST. There is absolutely no doubt that this would be the single best conference we have ever been in for both main revenue sports.

[Wag Tag]

21 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

This was the old CUSA and MWC were talking about doing back in 2010, basically merging without merging, having their conference champions play each other in a G5 Super Bowl. That was when CUSA was the AAC. I think they were holding out hope that it would get them an automatic spot in the old BCS formula, along with the Big East, Big XII, Pac 10, Big Ten, and ACC.

That old collection of MWC teams, with TCU, Utah, and BYU was stout, often finishing better than the Big East or ACC champ. But the Pac 10 had no interest in helping the MWC in becoming a Power League. They took Utah for three reasons in 2010: Because the Texoma contingent backed out of joining the Pac with Colorado, Utah was an easy add and represented a travel partner for CU and a growing market, and it got Orrin Hatch to back off the whole BCS monopoly talk, since Utah was the lead guy being left out and he had some power within Congress with powerful friends.

I still like the MWC's makeup a lot and a Texas school or collection of Texas schools will find their way over there, eventually. UTEP and Rice are already begin rumored to want to go that route with the way things are going in CUSA. I'd absolutely love it if we and UTSA went with them to get to 16 members over there. Imagine a division with us, Rice, UTSA, UTEP, UNM, CSU, Air Force, and Wyoming. You have those 7 conference games, plus a game on the road and a game at home against the other division that would have Hawaii, SDSU, Fresno State, SJSU, Nevada, UNLV, Utah State, and Boise State. Make it a rule that the CST teams can't start after 7pm PST when playing out there and PST teams cannot start before 3pm CST. There is absolutely no doubt that this would be the single best conference we have ever been in for both main revenue sports.

Like it. Problem I see is travel expense and fans traveling to games. Now what if you played a few out if conference games like the NFL? AFC - NFC?

[Arkstfan]

Regionalism is the great untapped fountain.

Take a hypothetical AState vs. UNT game. Option 1. Telecast on FS1. Option 2. Telecast on Fox SW.

Same day, same time slot, the Fox SW telecast will draw at least 75% of the audience of the FS1 telecast unless someone is in position to contend for access and has some national interest.

Not quite as valuable for national advertisers but it opens the door to a host of regional advertisers who cannot justify buying ads where many of the viewers are not close to the area. If you are Whataburger getting your ad seen in Chicago and New York or even St. Louis isn't a priority.  Bad Boy mowers has more dealers located within 100 miles of Dallas and 100 miles of Little Rock than they have within 100 miles of Chicago, Milwaukee, and New York City combined.

[physics90]

58 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

Regionalism is the great untapped fountain.

Take a hypothetical AState vs. UNT game. Option 1. Telecast on FS1. Option 2. Telecast on Fox SW.

Same day, same time slot, the Fox SW telecast will draw at least 75% of the audience of the FS1 telecast unless someone is in position to contend for access and has some national interest.

Not quite as valuable for national advertisers but it opens the door to a host of regional advertisers who cannot justify buying ads where many of the viewers are not close to the area. If you are Whataburger getting your ad seen in Chicago and New York or even St. Louis isn't a priority.  Bad Boy mowers has more dealers located within 100 miles of Dallas and 100 miles of Little Rock than they have within 100 miles of Chicago, Milwaukee, and New York City combined.

@Arkstfan, thanks for posting here.  I have always liked reading your comments; they are always good.

[untbowler]

CUSA add 2-4 teams and then split into 2 new conferences.

East add Georgia St and JMU

West add ULL and Arkansas St, F*** Texas St

2 new conferences and Regional Rivalries

[Cerebus]

1 hour ago, Arkstfan said:

Regionalism is the great untapped fountain.

Agree.  Which is why I have always thought that what makes most sense is for the G5s to get together and move teams around to make the most regional sense.  

[Arkstfan]

On 1/20/2016 at 9:32 AM, Cerebus said:

Agree.  Which is why I have always thought that what makes most sense is for the G5s to get together and move teams around to make the most regional sense.  

I made a prediction back when Big East/AAC went predatory that the G5's in the Eastern and Central time zones would eventually (by eventually I was thinking a decade) would realign into one of two models.

MODEL 1.

There would be two geographically organized "between" leagues that would be between the P5 and the lower tier which would be MAC and a geographically spread out entry league for newer FBS members and low resource members. In this sense there would be a mostly Eastern time zone league and mostly Central time zone league then there would be MWC with those three leagues doing most of the battling it out for Buster, now Access.

MODEL 2.

There would be a single East/Central league that would be ahead of the remaining leagues but for MWC with that league and MWC being the clear leaders in the buster/Access battle and there would be two entry leagues that would mostly geographically compact.

I believed model 1 would happen if AAC were raided presumably by Big XII, especially if Houston were left out.

Model 2 now looks more likely but it lacks an AD or president to take the lead and make it happen (as far as I can tell that person hasn't stepped up).

The G5 situation is changing dramatically. With the exception of ULM Sun Belt athletic budgets now are very competitive with CUSA budgets. ULM, La.Tech, and Idaho were the only Sun Belt or CUSA football schools under $20 million in 2013-14. Arkansas State once was nearly $10 million behind USM and should pass USM by several million if not in the next round of released numbers, we will by the time the round after that comes out. Monken was being paid the same as AState's Anderson but AState has a larger assistant budget. 

That's part of the flattening out that is taking place. The G5 are richer than ever before, but the P5 have grown even richer. The decision by Fox to not follow the ESPN model of buying all the rights will accelerate the flattening.

The whole model is changing. We've gone from markets, to carriage fees, and coming next is viewership and whether people are willing to pay to view a subscription feed and how much they will pay for that feed.