USM signed a 1 for 1 with Kentucky

[emmitt01]

It can be done.

[greenjoe]

Kentucky could increase it's recruiting base better at Apogee than at Southern Miss.

[Army of Dad]

This is all Tulsa's fault!

[Ben Gooding]

I think Army of Dad is onto something. 

[UNT86]

Good for them, but I would rather see Army and the Geldings

[97and03]

Rabble, rabble!!! Rick V!! Rabble, rabble, rabble!!!

 

[KRAM1]

Good for them, but I would rather see Army and the Geldings

Totally agree!

[Huff]

I agree with UNT86. Army and SMU are great series for us.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Coach Andy Mac

[DallasGreen]

I agree with Huff and Kram. It is a great trip to West Point and playing the hated 'Stangs every year may finally convince Coach Mac that it is indeed a rivalry!

[Arkstfan]

Kentucky was calling everyone just about because the dates were so close they were under pressure. We weren't able to accommodate the dates. Tried to do one further down the road but without the time pressure they wanted us to play our home game in Memphis or Nashville.

USM had to shift a game, I think BYU to make it work.

[untjim1995]

Look, Army and SMU are fine opponents, but why couldn't we schedule Kentucky, too? You know, since teams like them were specifically mentioned as opponents that Apogee would be able to bring into Denton. It doesn't have to be an either/or, people. Playing Kentucky is just a bit better than the following OOC opponents that Apogee has hosted, since it is brand new and can apparently handle the overflow crowds that come to Denton to watch Texas Southern, Idaho, Nicholls State, Portland State, Incarnate Word, Lamar, and Abilene Christian.

I've always thought SMU and Army are fine ooc opponents to schedule a series with, but not if they are treated as the Big Game on the schedule. Army is a great historical program and play in a wonderful venue, but we are playing them for one reason only--they have fans that will come here to watch them. Having SMU and Lamar as OOC opponents in a season at Apogee, or Army and Incarnate Word as home OOC games in a single season, are not good OOC schedules. They aren't and never will be--because SMU and Army should be the backup to that equaton, like it was in 2011 with UH and Indiana coming to town. SMU and UK or Army and BYU would be awesome OOC schedules. SMU and Ball State and Army and Colorado State would be solid OOC schedules. Playing a G5, of which Army is barely, and then playing an absolute dreg of FCS is what I expected from us while playing at Fouts in the SBC. Instead, we close out Fouts as a SBC member playing K-State and Rice in OOC, a year after playing Army and Ohio at Fouts in OOC, followed in previous years with OOC games against Tulsa, Navy, and SMU.

Our OOC home schedule at Apogee as a CUSA member is WORSE than our OOC schedule was at Fouts as a SBC member. How in the freak can that even happen, much less be accepted by so many people around here. I won't waver on this--I will never set foot in Apogee when a FCS team is playing there. It takes up too much time and money for a game that Denton Ryan would serve as a better opponent. If that makes me a bad fan, sobeit. I can barely sell people to go watch us play our SBCUSA mates, often going by myself or with my small children. Even I cannot convince myself to give up those hours on a Saturday to watch us beat Nicholls State 77-3--and it just kills me when I read others post on here that so-and-so looked just awesome today against the FCS-dreg we played, knwoing full well that the next G5 opponent we play will be infintely better on offense, defense, and special teams. FCS games are a complete wastefor a program like ours--and that is with us beating them. Imagine what it will be like if Portland State comes down here and beats us, which is sadly very possible? As if recruiting can get any worse here, lets see what it looks like to struggle in beating an FCS team. Its hard enough to get fans interested here in a winner (see season ticket decline in 2014 after a HoD Bowl win)--if we go 2-10 this year or worse, we are screwed--because Mac ain't getting canned here for at least another 2 seasons beyond this one. If the season turns into a 2-10 record and somehow features a loss to Portland State, it won't hurt Mac or RV, neither of whom will get fired. It will absolutely kill any recruiting battles we could even try to get in with other SBCUSA teams. To me, getting beat by Kentucky is still better than beating Lamar by 90, if for no other reason than casual fans may come out to watch us play them, UK will bring more than a dozen people to the stadium, and the local media and high school coaches and players will see us playing somebody they have heard of, like with Indiana, which still serves as the greatest win at Apogee in its short history, since there were more than 15k actual people in attendance to see it happen.

[Harry]

I think part of the issue with SMU last year was their fanbase was so damn down on June and his antics (trying to leave for the ASU gig) etc.. that we really didn't get much of a push from their fans in terms of attendance.  Now I do think this game in Dallas could be quite interesting.  Especially when you factor in a). how excited they are about Chad Morris and b). how many fans we have in Dallas that won't drive to Denton but would attend a game in Dallas (see bowl game)...

On ARMY -- personally if they were smart they would strongly consider joining C-USA as a league.  That probably won't happen but I think they would be able to compete etc.  I do think that is a terrific series to have as is SMU.  Kentucky is the SEC bitch but that said they would be a pretty tough opponent for us where our program is right now.

I think sometimes people underestimate C-USA as a football league.  This is not an easy league to win in consistently.  Every program is working hard to develop and there are good coaches. 

Could scheduling improve at UNT hell yes, but look at SMU - having teams like Texas A&M and Baylor come into your house, fill it up artificially with their fans and beat you like a step child is not good for your program.  It is just not.  Winning is what matters, check that consistently winning more than you lose is what matters.  UNT has just never done this.  If they did, things would change dramatically.

 

[Arkstfan]

Few thoughts.

Army. I've not done it in a year or two but last time I checked they had fewer southern players than Navy or Air Force. They don't seem to recruit the south well, they also don't play much in the South. 

Scheduling names. It's fun and all but what is the core business for intercollegiate athletics? Promote the school to potential students, keep alums connected, sell tickets, win donations (and if you are making a profit, who cares if you do the first two if you aren't dependent on the school's money?) 

To truly further the goals you have to develop a base that comes to see your team, not the visiting team.

Winning isn't everything, it isn't even the only thing but it does help further the goals and makes marketing easier, otherwise you are left with school pride and minor league baseball gimmicks to sell tickets.

[Ben Gooding]

Few thoughts.

Army. I've not done it in a year or two but last time I checked they had fewer southern players than Navy or Air Force. They don't seem to recruit the south well, they also don't play much in the South. 

Scheduling names. It's fun and all but what is the core business for intercollegiate athletics? Promote the school to potential students, keep alums connected, sell tickets, win donations (and if you are making a profit, who cares if you do the first two if you aren't dependent on the school's money?) 

To truly further the goals you have to develop a base that comes to see your team, not the visiting team.

Winning isn't everything, it isn't even the only thing but it does help further the goals and makes marketing easier, otherwise you are left with school pride and minor league baseball gimmicks to sell tickets.

Whoa, whoa, whoa... do what

[Arkstfan]

Whoa, whoa, whoa... do what

​Winning is a gimmick to make money. It's important to you so they try to field a team that wins, but this about dollars more accurately tens of millions of dollars, winning is a hook. Follow the money.

[untjim1995]

​Winning is a gimmick to make money. It's important to you so they try to field a team that wins, but this about dollars more accurately tens of millions of dollars, winning is a hook. Follow the money.

​I'm not sure I agree with you here--or understand your thinking (no surprise if I don't). There are too many examples of winning in football or basketball bringing in more dollars to the university, not to mention the extra constant revenue that season ticket holders provide to the athletic department. For example, UT season tickets are down substantially over the last 5 years. What happened in that timeframe? They lost to Alabama in the National Championship game and have spiraled down since then. Another example, after winning the Rose Bowl and finishing #2 in the country, TCU saw record amounts of applicants and donations come in, as well as season ticket requests, all of which helped trigger an invite to a power league and a complete refurbishement of their stadium. But when they started in the Big XII, they had two mediocre-to-bad seasons and the numbers dropped back a ways. Then last year, they hit another home run and now they are getting more attention and money again.

 

[Arkstfan]

Winning doesn't guarantee you will sell tickets or raise money and there are plenty of P5 schools who are terrible but sell a lot of tickets and make a lot in donations.

 

[Ben Gooding]

It all but guarantees it. Let's be realistic. 

[Arkstfan]

It all but guarantees it. Let's be realistic. 

​So four straight years of winning had the coffers overflowing at UNT resulting in a new stadium? Season ticket sales I'm sure went well up also. That's why UNT season ticket sales increased last year. 

AState has increased season ticket sales six straight years, that includes increases after consecutive 4-8 seasons.

It's easy to make an assumption that winning cures all but the data doesn't prove that it all but guarantees it. I'm a realist that's why I say winning is a tool, not the goal.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Arkstfan

[Harry]

​So four straight years of winning had the coffers overflowing at UNT resulting in a new stadium? Season ticket sales I'm sure went well up also. That's why UNT season ticket sales increased last year. 

AState has increased season ticket sales six straight years, that includes increases after consecutive 4-8 seasons.

It's easy to make an assumption that winning cures all but the data doesn't prove that it all but guarantees it. I'm a realist that's why I say winning is a tool, not the goal.

​It was 4-straight years of winning a league in which we were the only Texas member.  As big a deal as it was - and I do believe the 4 straight conference championships was a BIG deal - it still did not resonate with our alumni and the general sports world as we'd hoped.  I know A-State has had their down moments but you guys have had a lot of success lately and it is consistent, despite losing a head coach more than anyone would like to have.  So while I appreciate what you are saying (especially the hit the pavement for sales comment), it is hard to compare the two situations.  Just hope that you aren't in a one winning season in a decade situation as we are facing.  It is hard to build any type of fanbase when you have that albatross hanging over your neck...

[Arkstfan]

We were in the one winning season in a decade situation. We had one winning season 1992-2004 and went 42-104-1 UNT is on a 35-85 streak, three years shorter than AState with a slightly better win percentage than AState had.

But what is being glossed over is we were winning fans over BEFORE we went on this run.

Season ticket sales up six consecutive seasons, started when we were losing.

Merchandise revenue up four consecutive seasons (expect it to be five when the current fiscal year ends) started while we were losing.

You had no Texas opponents, we had no one in Arkansas as an opponent in football and unlike UNT, we can't schedule an in-state FBS in non-conference.

AState and UNT each were about as far from the nearest conference football opponent at just over 300 miles.

Losing makes it harder, not impossible.

[MeanGreenHoops]

When someday we have 5 winning seasons in a row and attendance doesn't improve, I'm looking forward to what the excuses will be around here for it. I'm incomplete agreement with Arkstfan. Winning will not cure what ails UNT. The program is not being given the necessary buzz to create fans of going to the games regardless. There are less than a 1,000 of us who go because we are committed to going. Everyone else only goes sometimes, and usually when there is another reason like, it's the 1st game, or it's Homecoming, or it's Parents weekend. Then these people don't ever become invested because the plan is not there to invest them in the program.

Unfortunately from my perspective, the last big buzz chance we had was the stadium opening and we just didn't gain enough steam. We didn't shed the decades of going to games being an afterthought. We didn't give people a reason to attend besides well Houston and Indiana are coming whoopee. So while there was  small spike, it kind of seemed like same old same old just in nicer digs and so it leveled off. And now we are back in the same cycle of attendance we've always been.

Winning will not cure all.

 

[untjim1995]

Winning doesn't guarantee you will sell tickets or raise money and there are plenty of P5 schools who are terrible but sell a lot of tickets and make a lot in donations.

 

​Because they play teams that their alumni and fans want to go and watch and try to beat. Texas Tech gets huge donations becuase they have hosted the following teams to Lubbock for games in the past 5 years: Texas, A&M, UH, UTEP, Texas State, SMU, TCU, Baylor, OU, OSU, KU, KSU, Mizzou, Nebraska, Colorado, West Virginia and Arkansas. They have barely won anything of note in that stretch since Leach left.

There are tow sure-fire ways to get people to come to your stadium. One is to play people that college fans care about or have actually heard of. The other is to win. We have won and it didn't draw any decent crowds unless we played someone that people cared about (KSU, UH, Baylor, TCU, SMU, or Rice) or for a conference champioinship (NMSU in 2002). Otherwise, it sucks around here to watch us play FCS spares in the early season or play an SBCUSA opponent to end the year after Turkey Day in front of about 5000 people or less.