Political Correctness And Player Discipline

[rcade]

Uh.... Leach never touched the kid. He simply made him stand up in an air onditioned room. But I guess that is abuse since the players feelings were hurt.

He had a concussion.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Out of all of the replies, no one gives a reason why Leavitt's actions are wrong or what harm came to the player. The basic response is "that crossed a line,'

Whose line? Who sets that line? Why has the line moved so much in the last 15 years?

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to what harm Leavitt's actions caused the player involved....

Reasons are listed in the USF documents in the other thread that you apparently didn't read, but commented on anyway. The universities set the line. Coaches agree to work under the university rules and policies in the terms of their contract. They move because of tort liability.

The player ultimately said that as a non-scholarship player he felt that Leavitt would kick him off the team. His duress resulting from the situation is noted in the report that, again, had you read would prevent from asking over and over again what the problem is.

The dismissal and report cover all the corners of the firing of Jim Leavitt. But, as in most other ventures in life, you do have to read to understand.

USF is very clear as to which university rules and policies were broken. Further, they detail why his conduct ran afoul those policies. Finally, they give three separate reasons why those action independently gave rise to his dismissal.

If you think UNT and every other college in America doesn't have a similar policy, you are kidding yourself.

From the letter of dismissal:

"As is reported in more detail in the report it was alleged that you inappropriately grabbed the throat and slapped the face of a student athlete. The report concluded that this allegation was accurate based on the independently corroborated statements of persons found to be in the best position to observe your conduct. The disparity of authority and power between you as the head coach and the student athlete makes the conduct more serious."

....

"The physical conduct at issue that is substantiated in the report is misconduct in the USF Regulation 10.212 (Discipline, Misconduct, and Incompetence) because it is not compatible with with USF's educational mission and the health and welfare of USF student athletes. Under the terms of your Contract with USF you represented that you were familiar with USF Rules, including USF Regulations and Policies, and that you will abide by USF Rules in your duties as head coach. (Contract Sections: 3.b; 3.e; 5.a; and 5.d). Therefore your conduct represents a serious violation as contained in Section 8.c(8) of the Contract and states grounds for dismissal for cause under the Contract.

The conduct described above is independent and sufficient reason terminate your employment for cause. Also apparent from the report is your interference with the University's investigation into the matter. Specifically, you had direct contact with material witnesses to the investigation at a time you knew or should have known was critical to the review process. Your conduct is both contrary and adverse to USF's public mission to insure the integrity of our review process. As such, your interference with USF's public interests represents misconduct under USF Regulation 10.212, a serious violation as contained in Section 8.c(8) of the Contract and an independent and sufficient grounds for cause dismissal under the Contract.

Moreover, the report documents that you treated a student athlete adversely during the investigation. This conduct is a serious violation of the USF System Policy 0-020 (Retaliation, Retribution, and Reprisal Prohibited) and a basis for disciplinary action including termination under USF Rules. This renders the reported conduct a serious violation as contained in 8.c(8) of your Contract. This is an independent and sufficient ground from cause dismissal under the Contract."

Edited October 26, 2010 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[UNTLifer]

Uh.... Leach never touched the kid. He simply made him stand up in an air onditioned room. But I guess that is abuse since the players feelings were hurt.

Keep splitting hairs. Man, and I thought my 5 and 8 year old boys were tough to explain things to.

[UNT90]

Keep splitting hairs. Man, and I thought my 5 and 8 year old boys were tough to explain things to.

Wow.. Usually when aomeone resorts to a personal attack, it's an indication that they dont have an answer to the argument o the other side. Goes for TFLF also, although I completely expect him to changes positions at any time and join my argument, only to reverse course a short time later and bash me yet again :-)

Still waiting for an answer to what actual harm, besides hurt feelings, that the USF player incurred?

[wardly]

Wow.. Usually when aomeone resorts to a personal attack, it's an indication that they dont have an answer to the argument o the other side. Goes for TFLF also, although I completely expect him to changes positions at any time and join my argument, only to reverse course a short time later and bash me yet again :-)

Still waiting for an answer to what actual harm, besides hurt feelings, that the USF player incurred?

if you really wanted an answer, you would either reach out to the player or our acting head coach. since you won't ,quit carping about not getting an answer to a guestion that we don't know the answer to. i am curious as to how you would feel if a coach grabed your son by the throat and choaked him.

[FirefightnRick]

Goes for TFLF also, although I completely expect him to changes positions at any time

Just keep in mind that even though it's fun to go back and forth with him your also arguing with someone that doesn't give a rats ass about North Texas, doesn't go to games, doesn't buy season tickets, doesn't donate to the stadium and more than likely won't ever do any of the above. If Leavitt comes and does great, then good the Fake may bless us with his presence on the board a few more times. If Tommy Tuberville LIGHT, aka Jeff Bower comes and gets eaten alive in recruiting by June Jones and Gary Patterson, then that will be fine also.

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

From the letter of dismissal:

"As is reported in more detail in the report it was alleged that you inappropriately grabbed the throat and slapped the face of a student athlete. The report concluded that this allegation was accurate based on the independently corroborated statements of persons found to be in the best position to observe your conduct. The disparity of authority and power between you as the head coach and the student athlete makes the conduct more serious."

....

"The physical conduct at issue that is substantiated in the report is misconduct in the USF Regulation 10.212 (Discipline, Misconduct, and Incompetence) because it is not compatible with with USF's educational mission and the health and welfare of USF student athletes. Under the terms of your Contract with USF you represented that you were familiar with USF Rules, including USF Regulations and Policies, and that you will abide by USF Rules in your duties as head coach. (Contract Sections: 3.b; 3.e; 5.a; and 5.d). Therefore your conduct represents a serious violation as contained in Section 8.c(8) of the Contract and states grounds for dismissal for cause under the Contract.

The conduct described above is independent and sufficient reason terminate your employment for cause. Also apparent from the report is your interference with the University's investigation into the matter. Specifically, you had direct contact with material witnesses to the investigation at a time you knew or should have known was critical to the review process. Your conduct is both contrary and adverse to USF's public mission to insure the integrity of our review process. As such, your interference with USF's public interests represents misconduct under USF Regulation 10.212, a serious violation as contained in Section 8.c(8) of the Contract and an independent and sufficient grounds for cause dismissal under the Contract.

Moreover, the report documents that you treated a student athlete adversely during the investigation. This conduct is a serious violation of the USF System Policy 0-020 (Retaliation, Retribution, and Reprisal Prohibited) and a basis for disciplinary action including termination under USF Rules. This renders the reported conduct a serious violation as contained in 8.c(8) of your Contract. This is an independent and sufficient ground from cause dismissal under the Contract."

Yeah, we have read the letter of dismissal. Lawyers can make a hell of a claim when $7 Million dollars is at stake.

Again, non of that proves he abused this player. Non of it.

Rick

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Yeah, we have read the letter of dismissal. Lawyers can make a hell of a claim when $7 Million dollars is at stake.

Again, non of that proves he abused this player. Non of it.

Rick

Hmmm. Okay, Keeper of The Mean Green Roll Call, what exactly does the report mean? That a university's president, HR department, athletic director, and attorney just decided to waste some time and money one day, so they coerced a couple dozen witnesses to make up a story and give the school some bad publicity right before Christmas? That makes sense. Happens all the time. Universities love bad publicity. They're always going around trying to make stuff up.

He choked the kid. He hit the kid. More than a dozen witnesses in the lockers around Joel Miller said so. Joel Miller said so. Leavitt was among the non-student athlete witnesses interviewed for the report. So, he did indeed get to tell his side of the story.

Unfortunately for him, his side of the story did not match up to what the majority of the witnesses saw. And, to make matters worse for himself, he attempted to influence certain witnesses during the investigation.

He broke, at minimum, three USF policies that could lead to termination. And, they terminated him, as was their right to do so per the contract he signed with them.

And, such remain the facts until he either settles and has the report withdrawn, as Mark Mangino did. Or, until he goes to trial and has a court overturn the findings of the internal investigation.

So, my green-helmeted, season ticket-holding, T. Boone Pickens of UNT friend, he did hit the kid.

[gangrene]

Without getting into the argument of whether or the not the incident was an assault, by definition, I find it interesting that, on January 15, 2010, Joel Miller and his attorney threatened Jim Leavitt with a civil and/or criminal lawsuit if he did not meet their demands of making a public apology.

Barry Cohen, lawyer for USF Bulls football player, demands apology from former coach Jim Leavitt

Addressing the absent Leavitt directly, Cohen continued: "It's time to stand up now, Coach, and do the right thing, because if you don't, (Cohen's law partner) Steve Romine and I might not know much about football, but we know a lot about hardball."Don't look in the mirror every morning and see a coward who didn't have the guts to man up, like you've been telling Joel since he was 12 years old. Do the right thing."

Tampa attorney Eduardo A. Suarez, who is not involved with either party in the case, told the St. Petersburg Times that though Leavitt "appears to have acted inappropriately," he has little risk of losing a civil case or facing a criminal charge.

Criminal charges require proof "beyond reasonable doubt," said Suarez, a former Hillsborough prosecutor who also practices civil law. "Given what's been presented, there's minimal likelihood of a criminal charge."

Conflicting testimony would also cloud a civil case, Suarez said. More important, Miller would have to show permanent physical injury.

Yet, on March 4, 2010, Joel Miller announced, through his lawyer, Barry Cohen, "I am not filing a lawsuit."

USF's Joel Miller: 'I am not filing a lawsuit'

USF walk-on football player Joel Miller issued a statement through his attorney Thursday afternoon, saying that he has no intentions of bringing any civil lawsuit against former USF coach Jim Leavitt.

"I want to end any further speculation regarding the incident with my former coach," Miller said in a statement released through his attorney, Barry Cohen. "I am not filing a lawsuit. I am not taking any legal action."

Also of note -

Attorneys representing Leavitt and USF met for nearly six hours in mediation on Feb. 20, but no resolution between the two parties was reached. Leavitt has not been able to land another coaching job since his firing, though he attended the NFL combine in Indianapolis last week as a guest of the St. Louis Rams.

Leavitt's attorney, Wil Florin, issued the following statement in response: "From the beginning, Coach Leavitt has stated his fondness for Joel Miller and all of his players. In that regard, nothing has changed. Our issues are and always have been with the way Coach Leavitt was treated by USF."

Florin said he has requested that USF release full transcripts of the witness accounts collected in the university's investigation of the incident, but said USF has declined to do so.

One might make the argument that Leavitt called Miller's, and Cohen's bluff??

[VideoEagle]

Wow.. Usually when aomeone resorts to a personal attack, it's an indication that they dont have an answer to the argument o the other side. Goes for TFLF also, although I completely expect him to changes positions at any time and join my argument, only to reverse course a short time later and bash me yet again :-)

Still waiting for an answer to what actual harm, besides hurt feelings, that the USF player incurred?

I'm probably going to regret this, but it's slow at work today so I'll give a shot at answering you question.

First, it is totally immaterial to the firing if there was actual harm to the player. USF has a rule against the physical conduct in which Leavitt was engaged. When he took the job, he agreed to follow those rules and agree to be fired with cause if he violated them. The university did an investigation and found he had violated the rules and he was terminated. He is challenging that in court, but until a court rules otherwise, officially he did violate the rules of employment.

Secondly, the student said he felt threatened as a non-scholarship player by a person in authority, that being the head coach, about accurately reporting the incident. That student is now a member of a protected class according to Federal rules. Last year getting my MBA I had to sit through 12 hours with a Justice Department prosecutor about protected classes and retaliation. There can be no retaliation of any kind what so ever at all against a member of a protected class. Even something as small as not talking to them is retaliation. In the workplace, moving someone's desk can be considered retaliation. Co-workers whispering can be considered retaliation. This prosecutor did say different workplaces had special circumstances, but after talking to her I"m sure she any kind of physical abuse like grabbing by the neck would be out of bounds.

According to this prosector, a defense for a company (or in this case USF) would be to immediately take steps to stop the retaliation. Most often, that means terminating the person in the position of power as quickly as possible. It also means explaining to everyone - including other coaches and player - that any retaliation, no matter how minor or even away from the workplace, will be punished.

"Hurt feelings," depending on the circumstances, now qualifies as abuse. See verbal abuse here. I don't know of any football coaches yet fired for it, but this fall, IUPUI fired their women's basketball coach in part for mentally and verbally abusing her team.

Is this the "wussification of America?" I don't know. I know I read monthly about schools taking steps to stop bullying and about kids committing suicide over bullying. Several times a year there are stories about disgruntled workers who felt abused going back and shooting up their workplaces. Accepting some "wussyness" verse dead people seems like an easy choice to me. Accepting a little "wussiness" verse lawsuits closing down a schools athletics department is a choice that has to be made.

Also, is it "wussiness" or "wussyness?" Not sure about that either.

Edited October 26, 2010 by VideoEagle

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Or, one might argue what Joel Miller himself argued - he wasn't in it for the money and wanted to put the whole matter behind him.

And, things have worked out for Joel Miller, too. Skip Holtz put him on scholarship this season:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/aug/20/210123/miller-gets-closure-in-usf-camp/sports-colleges-bulls/

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/college/article1116866.ece

Also, Miller's attorney said all along that all they sought was an apology. When Leavitt wouldn't give it, they dropped the case. But, as statutes of limitations go, he has two years from incident to decide whether or not to continue the case.

By the way, Mark Mangino and his attorney felt the same way as Joel Miller - get it done and move on. You have a real special case in Leavitt and his attorney.

[Cerebus]

If there are so many great football coaches that are also great people, why have there been so few of them during our programs 100+ year history?

And can someone please forward a list of all these great coaches and morale paragons that are lining up to coach at NT to RV?

What Leach and Leavitt did was wrong. They made a serious mistake, they have paid for it, they deserve another chance.

Anyone who is purporting to make either one of these incidents into something as terrible as the long term, intentionally cultivated culture of cheating and dishonesty at Miami is either ignorant of the situation or intentionally misleading.

[MizzouTigers]

It's the attempt to cover things up that bother me.

Irrelevant since there was no slap or no cover-up.

[MizzouTigers]

Or, one might argue what Joel Miller himself argued - he wasn't in it for the money and wanted to put the whole matter behind him.

And, things have worked out for Joel Miller, too. Skip Holtz put him on scholarship this season:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/aug/20/210123/miller-gets-closure-in-usf-camp/sports-colleges-bulls/

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/college/article1116866.ece

Also, Miller's attorney said all along that all they sought was an apology. When Leavitt wouldn't give it, they dropped the case. But, as statutes of limitations go, he has two years from incident to decide whether or not to continue the case.

By the way, Mark Mangino and his attorney felt the same way as Joel Miller - get it done and move on. You have a real special case in Leavitt and his attorney.

He has no case. A first year law student could figure that out.

[UNTLifer]

Wow.. Usually when aomeone resorts to a personal attack, it's an indication that they dont have an answer to the argument o the other side. Goes for TFLF also, although I completely expect him to changes positions at any time and join my argument, only to reverse course a short time later and bash me yet again :-)

Still waiting for an answer to what actual harm, besides hurt feelings, that the USF player incurred?

It wasn't a personal attack, it was my throwing my hands up in the air and just letting it go. What actual harm was incurred? How do you define harm? Was he physically injured? I don't really know, but I doubt it. Did it emabarass, humiliate or hurt his feelings? Probably, but that isn't what defines the issue.

[MeanGreenTexan]

He has no case. A first year law student could figure that out.

Didn't you say you were going on a cruise? What the heck are you doing on here?

Go enjoy the Carribbean Jim, you're going to need that vacation before you become our new HC. You have plenty of work in front of you.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

He has no case. A first year law student could figure that out.

Well, here's the attorney who oversaw the investigation with USF's HR Department: http://www.tsghlaw.com/tgonzalez.html

I'd say he's well past the 1L stage. And, if there ever comes a time before the statute of limitations for the assault expires, his report would be a part of the trial, at minimum.

Miller and his attorney said form the get go they wanted no money, just an apology. The case has already been laid out by competent counsel.

[gangrene]

Or, one might argue what Joel Miller himself argued - he wasn't in it for the money and wanted to put the whole matter behind him.

And, things have worked out for Joel Miller, too. Skip Holtz put him on scholarship this season:

http://www2.tbo.com/...colleges-bulls/

http://www.tampabay....icle1116866.ece

Also, Miller's attorney said all along that all they sought was an apology. When Leavitt wouldn't give it, they dropped the case. But, as statutes of limitations go, he has two years from incident to decide whether or not to continue the case.

By the way, Mark Mangino and his attorney felt the same way as Joel Miller - get it done and move on. You have a real special case in Leavitt and his attorney.

Just speculation here, but why would you hire a "top" lawyer if you just wanted a public apology? More speculation; maybe all Miller really wanted out of it was a scholarship? Mission accomplished. He got Leavitt fired in a manner that got USF out of their contractual obligations and he got his scholarship (which has a monetary equivalent). Why wouldn't he want to put the matter behind him and move on?? Nothing's really changed for Miller - he's still attending classes and playing football for the same school...only now his expenses are paid are fully. Leavitt, on the other hand, lost his job, his large salary and, most importantly, his respect and value as a BCS HC. Leavitt lost everything he valued, everything that defined his life. His reputation is so tarnished now that even the fan base of one of the worst college football teams in the FBS is reluctant to give him a second chance to prove himself. If someone accused you of something that ripped your career out from under your feet, wouldn't you do the same as Leavitt?

[FirefightnRick]

He got Leavitt fired in a manner that that even the fan base of one of the worst college football teams in the FBS is reluctant to give him a second chance to prove himself.

Not all of this fanbase, according to the coaches poll pinned at the top the GMG.com nation favors him second only to leach.

Rick

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Just speculation here, but why would you hire a "top" lawyer if you just wanted a public apology? More speculation; maybe all Miller really wanted out of it was a scholarship? Mission accomplished. He got Leavitt fired in a manner that got USF out of their contractual obligations and he got his scholarship (which has a monetary equivalent). Why wouldn't he want to put the matter behind him and move on?? Nothing's really changed for Miller - he's still attending classes and playing football for the same school...only now his expenses are paid are fully. Leavitt, on the other hand, lost his job, his large salary and, most importantly, his respect and value as a BCS HC. Leavitt lost everything he valued, everything that defined his life. His reputation is so tarnished now that even the fan base of one of the worst college football teams in the FBS is reluctant to give him a second chance to prove himself. If someone accused you of something that ripped your career out from under your feet, wouldn't you do the same as Leavitt?

You do realize that in this conspiracy theory angle that Miller had to have in on his conspiracy:

-20 to 25 of his teammates

-the University president

-the HR department at USF

-the athletic director

-USF's outside counsel

-his counsel

In the "he just wanted to get Leavitt fired for a scholarship" conspiracy theory, he'd have to have all of those people go along. It's not even plausible that a university president and others would stop down and agree to spend thousands of dollars in legal fees and time, plus incur ongoing bad publicity, just to do one walk-on football player the favor of removing a head coach and giving him a scholarship.

As I've said before, if you prefer Leavitt in spite of him hitting the kid, just say so. You don't have to excuse his behavior, pretend it didn't happen, or make up some wild conspiracy based on one players getting a quarter of the team, the university president, and athletic director to act on his behalf.

If he'd be a man, apologize, and settle, I'd support having him here. But, with the shenanigans...no. There are too many other excellent choices out there without the baggage.

[gangrene]

You do realize that in this conspiracy theory angle that Miller had to have in on his conspiracy:

-20 to 25 of his teammates

-the University president

-the HR department at USF

-the athletic director

-USF's outside counsel

-his counsel

In the "he just wanted to get Leavitt fired for a scholarship" conspiracy theory, he'd have to have all of those people go along. It's not even plausible that a university president and others would stop down and agree to spend thousands of dollars in legal fees and time, plus incur ongoing bad publicity, just to do one walk-on football player the favor of removing a head coach and giving him a scholarship.

As I've said before, if you prefer Leavitt in spite of him hitting the kid, just say so. You don't have to excuse his behavior, pretend it didn't happen, or make up some wild conspiracy based on one players getting a quarter of the team, the university president, and athletic director to act on his behalf.

If he'd be a man, apologize, and settle, I'd support having him here. But, with the shenanigans...no. There are too many other excellent choices out there without the baggage.

Well, the majority of the U.S. population bought the "magic bullet" theory, so why not this one? Yes, I understand it's unlikely and I'm just poking fun at the over analysis this board is performing on Leavitt's situation at USF. I don't have a problem hiring the guy, regardless of what he may or may not have done. What's not in dispute is how he built the USF program from nothing to a #2 BCS ranking. That's enough for me to give him a second chance - I think I've made that clear over the last week or so. I think he's learned an important lesson from what's unfolded and understands how quickly he can lose everything he's worked so hard to achieve. I think he has something to prove and would be as motivated as any coach out there. I've always liked the saying, "One man's trash is another man's treasure." I think that statement is appropriate in this case.

[FirefightnRick]

He choked the kid. He hit the kid. More than a dozen witnesses in the lockers around Joel Miller said so. Joel Miller said so. Leavitt was among the non-student athlete witnesses interviewed for the report. So, he did indeed get to tell his side of the story.

...So, my green-helmeted, season ticket-holding, T. Boone Pickens of UNT friend, he did hit the kid.

Amazing! It's almost as if you were standing right there when it happened?

And my helmet is white, has been for 4 years now. Had you actually attended some of the games you would have probably known that.

Rick

Edited October 26, 2010 by FirefightnRick

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Amazing! It's almost as if you were standing right there when it happened?

The two dozen or so witnesses who say it did happen were in the room. So, it doesn't matter that every person in America wasn't there to see it.

Isn't it funny how that happens? Not everyone in America has to see what happens all the time. It makes things much easier on law enforcement and attorneys to just interview the witnesses who see an event or crime, just as USF and their attorney did.

[UNT90]

Well, here's the attorney who oversaw the investigation with USF's HR Department: http://www.tsghlaw.com/tgonzalez.html

I'd say he's well past the 1L stage. And, if there ever comes a time before the statute of limitations for the assault expires, his report would be a part of the trial, at minimum.

Miller and his attorney said form the get go they wanted no money, just an apology. The case has already been laid out by competent counsel.

If you seriously think there would ever be a criminal charge on this, much less a trial, then I know for certain you never practiced criminal law.

You keep bringing up the choking. Did anyone ever say that Miller's breathing was constricted? Were there any marks or bruising on the throat to indicate bruising?

In Texas, this would be, at most, a Class C misdemeanor (traffic ticket) assault. Even if that ticket was issued, the case would be dismissed based on Miller's own statements.

This was a slap. Nothing more. And it really is no big deal.

And again, people, I would rather see Leach or Fran here before Leavitt.

[UNT90]

I'm probably going to regret this, but it's slow at work today so I'll give a shot at answering you question.

First, it is totally immaterial to the firing if there was actual harm to the player. USF has a rule against the physical conduct in which Leavitt was engaged. When he took the job, he agreed to follow those rules and agree to be fired with cause if he violated them. The university did an investigation and found he had violated the rules and he was terminated. He is challenging that in court, but until a court rules otherwise, officially he did violate the rules of employment.

Secondly, the student said he felt threatened as a non-scholarship player by a person in authority, that being the head coach, about accurately reporting the incident. That student is now a member of a protected class according to Federal rules. Last year getting my MBA I had to sit through 12 hours with a Justice Department prosecutor about protected classes and retaliation. There can be no retaliation of any kind what so ever at all against a member of a protected class. Even something as small as not talking to them is retaliation. In the workplace, moving someone's desk can be considered retaliation. Co-workers whispering can be considered retaliation. This prosecutor did say different workplaces had special circumstances, but after talking to her I"m sure she any kind of physical abuse like grabbing by the neck would be out of bounds.

According to this prosector, a defense for a company (or in this case USF) would be to immediately take steps to stop the retaliation. Most often, that means terminating the person in the position of power as quickly as possible. It also means explaining to everyone - including other coaches and player - that any retaliation, no matter how minor or even away from the workplace, will be punished.

"Hurt feelings," depending on the circumstances, now qualifies as abuse. See verbal abuse here. I don't know of any football coaches yet fired for it, but this fall, IUPUI fired their women's basketball coach in part for mentally and verbally abusing her team.

Is this the "wussification of America?" I don't know. I know I read monthly about schools taking steps to stop bullying and about kids committing suicide over bullying. Several times a year there are stories about disgruntled workers who felt abused going back and shooting up their workplaces. Accepting some "wussyness" verse dead people seems like an easy choice to me. Accepting a little "wussiness" verse lawsuits closing down a schools athletics department is a choice that has to be made.

Also, is it "wussiness" or "wussyness?" Not sure about that either.

Thank you for a well thought out, although a little off the mark, response. I started this thread as a discussion only of whether slapping a player is wrong. Obviously, lying and trying to cover up the incident is a whole other issue.

Again, strictly on slapping Miller (because there is zero evidence of a choke), what is the actual physical harm?

Don't be so quick to link workplace and school shootings to someone's hurt feelings. People did this with Columbine only to find out (after a about an hour of investigating) that they were not bullied at all, and were actually quite popular. Lumping all of these shootings together is making a HUGE leap, as each and every case has independent circumstances.