Warming Up To The Wac?

[Green Otaku]

while I gagree with some of your points especially about teams moving up...

UNT has already turned down the WAC several times, their fans seem not interested, they did not do much when they were going west before and they seem to have developed a few rivalries in the belt so I don't see UNT going to the WAC

Which teams have we built rivalries with? As a student no one knew or gave a thought to any of the schools in the Sunbelt. I can't remember anyone every saying, "I can't wait to play (any sunbelt team) this week." I really can't. I think it would be hard to argue that playing in-state schools wouldn't get the student's interest more.

If we would have joined the WAC in 2004 who knows what could have been. Do we want to be saying that again in the future?

@VideoEagle

thats a good point. I like TxSt, ok with UTSA, but Lamar and Sam Houston are not what I would like.

The question is what is the WAC trying to do? Are they baiting to see what other tentative teams might bite?

Edited September 22, 2010 by Green Otaku

[Green Mean]

Longtime reader and first time poster here

I say UNT goes for the WAC. The opportunities it offers to move up to better things is whats most interesting. Lets look at the former members of the WAC and where they are now.

Arizona-Pac10

Arizona State-Pac10

BYU-MWC

New Mexico-MWC

Utah-Pac10

Wyoming-MWC

Colorado St.-MWC

UTEP-C-USA

SDSU-MWC

Air Force-MWC

Fresno st.-MWC

UNLV-MWC

TCU-MWC

Rice-C-USA

SMU-C-USA

Tulsa-C-USA

Nevada-MWC

Boise St.-MWC

This conference has a proven track record of moving schools to bigger better conferences. Every time the WAC seems on the verge of collapse they add teams who break through and give results. What has the Sunbelt done for us? We won 4 back to back championships and did that improve our recruiting? Our national perception? If the Sunbelt had been a great place to build up our program we would have seen the results with those 4 straight conference wins. Instead we drop back and are still fighting to get back.

What else has the Sunbelt created? Troy? MTSU? No team here is looking like they will be a BCS buster, lets face it the Sunbelt has not produced.

an east devision with

TxSt

LaTech

NMSU

UNT

UTSA

(one more)

would garner much more interest by the students than any of the schools we play now. No one on campus is interested about the schools we play. We have no rivalries in 10 years. No one cares about FAU or Troy.

No offense but the median poster here seems like a middle aged male. I think the younger alums would feel that this is a good move.

Sure I can see that there is a potential for risk here, but there is also potential for reward. I would rather give it a shot and see if we can land a big reward instead of sitting pretty where we are and hope something happens. If C-USA doesn't come calling in the summer I say give the invite a serious consideration. The WAC can be a great place to transition to a better place, or we can remain in the Sunbelt which has no track record of its teams moving up.

I have been the biggest proponent of the WAC in the past but joining the WAC without much of out Sunbelt brethren is useless. And I don't believe that Benson is interested in other SBC schools other than UNT. The good commodities of the WAC....Boise, Fresno, and Nevada are all gone now. After that there is a significant drop off and it wouldn't benefit NT joining it. Right now there is no doubt that the SBC is the worst FBS conference but once those three leave...then the WAC will clearly be the worst. It's frankly hard to say what is in store for NT conference wise...MWC seems like a complete longshot and CUSA seems a bit of a stretch since we are in Texas. Now if NT can get realignment Jesus on our side and somehow someway get into a BCS conference somewhere then maybe that's an idea but we know that ain't happening. Truth is that UTSA and TSU are the beggars in this situation and the WAC is their only option of getting into FBS football so they will be more inclined to embrace it.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Green Mean

[TodgeRodge]

On a separate note, I'm disgusted that the UT system would consider tossing the citizens' money into a program that will not amount to more than UTEP. UNT on the other hand represents one of the nation's premier metropolitan and economic regions, in a way that SMU and TCU do not. Our state should be making wiser choices about the investment of state dollars, than even thinking about Division 1 football in San Antonio, so close to the flagship that is such a heavyweight of college athletics anyway. What a wasteful and meaningless diversion that would be.

give me a break....seriously.....coming from a university that thinks it is a system because they have a community college office in a place where 50% of the students don't graduate from high school and TRYING to start a law school in a state with 9 law schools and law school graduates all over the USA waiting tables because they can't find a law job

if UNT athletics offered anything unique to the metromess they would not be in the dumpster of college sports for about 99% of their existence across the board with anemic fan and alumni support....unless that is the "unique" you are speaking of....the unique way that UNT has never come close to having decent sustained success in athletics in the 100+ years of their existence.....at least TCU and SMU have done something even if it was in the past for the most part with SMU (though they look to be on the upswing)

the UT System is wasting zero dollars on athletics because the UTSA athletics program will be funded the exact same way that UNTs athletics are through student fees and some tickets sold and donor support......you can't spend direct state dollars on athletics in Texas and UNT at least has a market with no pro or college competition on a level close to the same level of future competition UTSA will be up playing....UTSA students voted to spend THEIR money on athletics the same way UNT students voted to spend future students money on athletics

and lastly only UNT thinks of being a "system" and that having any meaning when it comes to athletics because UNT has to do that to pretend that Denton has a law school (if it ever opens and hopefully it will be de-funded and killed) and to justify wasting millions on a community college for royce and slappy that has probably cost more actual state education dollars than UTSA will ever spend on their athletics (if they find a way to spend any).....the fact that UTSA, UTA or any of the other UT system schools choose to do something is in no way related to what UT Austin does because they are individual universities not just a branch campus and they are looking to further that idea and build their own support and individuality

what a total load of self serving dung you just dumped

[Green Mean]

Which teams have we built rivalries with? As a student no one knew or gave a thought to any of the schools in the Sunbelt. I can't remember anyone every saying, "I can't wait to play (any sunbelt team) this week." I really can't. I think it would be hard to argue that playing in-state schools wouldn't get the student's interest more.

If we would have joined the WAC in 2004 who knows what could have been. Do we want to be saying that again in the future?

@VideoEagle

thats a good point. I like TxSt, ok with UTSA, but Lamar and Sam Houston are not what I would like.

The question is what is the WAC trying to do? Are they baiting to see what other tentative teams might bite?

Technically we don't really have an identifiable rivalry in the SBC...Some would say MTSU, some would say NMSU who are in the WAC...but the truth is that we don't really have a heavy rivalry with anybody from the belt. Hell if you go to the Wikipedia page of the SBC they don't have any conference football rivalries with NT. 2004 was a missed opportunity in my opinion but here I don't think there will be one. A program will only be able to elevate itself that much is if athletics is backed by the school's administration which NT is trying to do.

[TodgeRodge]

Which teams have we built rivalries with? As a student no one knew or gave a thought to any of the schools in the Sunbelt. I can't remember anyone every saying, "I can't wait to play (any sunbelt team) this week." I really can't. I think it would be hard to argue that playing in-state schools wouldn't get the student's interest more.

If we would have joined the WAC in 2004 who knows what could have been. Do we want to be saying that again in the future?

@VideoEagle

thats a good point. I like TxSt, ok with UTSA, but Lamar and Sam Houston are not what I would like.

The question is what is the WAC trying to do? Are they baiting to see what other tentative teams might bite?

MTSU and Ark State fans and UNT fans at least seem to be interested in playing each other.....the ULa's are at least close enough to travel to......that is why conferences even existed in the past to provide a game that was a bus ride (before frequent air travel) away for the team and a car ride away for the fans (back when there were 3 channels on TV (maybe 4 with PBS) and two games on Sat on the picture box)......you know the times back when the AQ schools were building their fan support, bowl games, TV viewership, and the total revenues to come from that......which is why those AQ schools don't and should not just toss some of those dollars to every dual directional with a 12K stadium and 10K fans and a dream of being Boise.....because those schools bring nothing but an easy win

now with plane travel for $79 dollars, ESPN the ocho, 40 games a week on TV, and the interwebtubes the appeal of a program for a larger fan support basis is harder to build because fans living in one place can still catch "their university" on TV or a quick flight to the live game and they no longer need to go to the local school just to catch a game because they are a fan of college football

this is just another reason a mostly Texas conference won't work because ticket sales are just a small part of the revenue stream now and nationally no one is interested in seeing 8 Texas teams and 4 dual directionals from close by beat each other up......the bad news for UNT is that at least in their case their own fans have no use to fly from place to place tosee them play the teams they can get in a conference with

when stability was the name of the game....UNT was unstable.....when the time was available to build a long term fan base that would now be at the age and position to support a team today....UNT had an administration that wanted to ditch football and minimize athletics.....and when the last small sliver of hope was there to get into a regional conference with a decent rep.....UNT won some games and failed to support that as a university or as fans

I am not sure jumping west again to a conference that has a history of rising from the dead at a time when they may finally be killed off is the thing to do and I am pretty positive that most of the fans feel that way

yet I am just as positive that there will not be a conference with more than 4 Texas schools anytime in the near future or at least until the AQ teams and a few more decide to finally tell about 40 D1-A schools thanks, but no thanks we are going it without you and taking our ball and money pile and leaving you to D1-AA or a D1-AA and former D1-A mix of about 60 to 80 schools that can make a playoff, have their own bowls, or do nothing...which will probably happen about 2015 or so

[LoveMG]

give me a break....seriously.....coming from a university that thinks it is a system because they have a community college

what a total load of self serving dung you just dumped

are you ut scum or smuu scum? troll alert

[TodgeRodge]

are you ut scum or smuu scum? troll alert

so basically you can't support that pile of self serving BS about one of the worst D1-A teams over their history (that dropped down to D1-AA at one point) offering anything unique in the metroplex (a metroplex with a pro football team, two college teams, and a huge number of fans of schools with long traditions of winning and fan support) much less the ridiculous accusation that the UT System is wasting money on football while UNT is investing in something unique and special

so you have to break out the "who are you a fan of" and troll flag

way to support a point VS actually further validate it

the post I replied to was about as rich as UNT fans accusing others of not letting them play in their sand box and then turning right around and telling TxState and UTSA to stay out of your scoop of sand

[forevereagle]

Why not just bring LA Tech and UTSA to the Belt.

And what has Texas State ever done?

What has UTSA ever done?

[RabidRunner]

I'd like to ask you a question in return. If the SunBelt and WAC were to extend an invite to SA and/or San Marcus, which would you choose? Does UNT already being in the Sun Belt make it more attractive? Does Troy being in the Sun Belt mean anything? does the better basketball of the Sun Belt make it more attractive with Western Kentucky? Does sharing the same footprint as the SEC to get their fallout make a difference? Does having a growing presence in Florida mean anything?

hey now...im asking the questions here

To be honest, as a UTSA fan, very few things outside of UNT interest me in the Belt.

Schools like Troy, FAI, FIU, WKU have no recognition in San Antonio whatsoever. Granted Hawaii, LaTech, NMSt, SJSU aren't world beaters by any means, but they are programs thats fans here seem to have some knowledge and familiarity with, and generally seem excited at the prospect of a WAC invite. I dont think we would see that same buzz if we were being mentioned for the Sunbelt in the same way. If UTSA was to get passed over for the WAC and ultimately settled on the belt, IMO most fans here would be dissapointed with that result. Educated UTSA fans understand we would be lucky to get ANY FBS invite, but the majority wouldn't see it that way. Its this type of thinking that is quickly garnering UTSA fans the reputation of being delusional and expecting things to be handed to them on a silver platter.

As for gaining access to recruits in SEC states, interesting question, especially with Coker's ties to FL. I dont think it would play into the decision making process at this point though. Coker mentioned access to TX athletes as one of the main reason for taking this job. We are better served for the next few years in just focusing on TX and trying to keep kids home IMO. It helps that the SA region is producing more D1 talent than ever before, and so far alot of these kids are buying in to staying home and helping build up their hometown school. UT, A&M will always get the pick of the litter, but there is still plenty to go around IMO.

Where does UNT focus its recruiting...do you still have a TX dominated roster?

[TodgeRodge]

hey now...im asking the questions here

To be honest, as a UTSA fan, very few things outside of UNT interest me in the Belt.

Schools like Troy, FAI, FIU, WKU have no recognition in San Antonio whatsoever. Granted Hawaii, LaTech, NMSt, SJSU aren't world beaters by any means, but they are programs thats fans here seem to have some knowledge and familiarity with, and generally seem excited at the prospect of a WAC invite. I dont think we would see that same buzz if we were being mentioned for the Sunbelt in the same way. If UTSA was to get passed over for the WAC and ultimately settled on the belt, IMO most fans here would be dissapointed with that result. Educated UTSA fans understand we would be lucky to get ANY FBS invite, but the majority wouldn't see it that way. Its this type of thinking that is quickly garnering UTSA fans the reputation of being delusional and expecting things to be handed to them on a silver platter.

As for gaining access to recruits in SEC states, interesting question, especially with Coker's ties to FL. I dont think it would play into the decision making process at this point though. Coker mentioned access to TX athletes as one of the main reason for taking this job. We are better served for the next few years in just focusing on TX and trying to keep kids home IMO. It helps that the SA region is producing more D1 talent than ever before, and so far alot of these kids are buying in to staying home and helping build up their hometown school. UT, A&M will always get the pick of the litter, but there is still plenty to go around IMO.

Where does UNT focus its recruiting...do you still have a TX dominated roster?

what programs are producing talent in SA these days?

in my time there Converse Judson was a Texas powerhouse, SA Holmes was good, Clark was new, but producing talent, and Churchill was fading somewhat......other than that some of the schools on the outskirts like Seguin, Poteet, and Cuero were having good years as well

[PerryG2480]

so bad timing and lack of action to take advantage of those 4 years of lightening in a bottle have resulted in UNT being long term belt bound....

lol.

[All About UNT]

hey now...im asking the questions here

To be honest, as a UTSA fan, very few things outside of UNT interest me in the Belt.

Schools like Troy, FAI, FIU, WKU have no recognition in San Antonio whatsoever. Granted Hawaii, LaTech, NMSt, SJSU aren't world beaters by any means, but they are programs thats fans here seem to have some knowledge and familiarity with, and generally seem excited at the prospect of a WAC invite. I dont think we would see that same buzz if we were being mentioned for the Sunbelt in the same way. If UTSA was to get passed over for the WAC and ultimately settled on the belt, IMO most fans here would be dissapointed with that result. Educated UTSA fans understand we would be lucky to get ANY FBS invite, but the majority wouldn't see it that way. Its this type of thinking that is quickly garnering UTSA fans the reputation of being delusional and expecting things to be handed to them on a silver platter.

As for gaining access to recruits in SEC states, interesting question, especially with Coker's ties to FL. I dont think it would play into the decision making process at this point though. Coker mentioned access to TX athletes as one of the main reason for taking this job. We are better served for the next few years in just focusing on TX and trying to keep kids home IMO. It helps that the SA region is producing more D1 talent than ever before, and so far alot of these kids are buying in to staying home and helping build up their hometown school. UT, A&M will always get the pick of the litter, but there is still plenty to go around IMO.

Where does UNT focus its recruiting...do you still have a TX dominated roster?

Last Year's Recruiting Class was:

Texas- 13

Kansas- 5

California- 2

Mississippi- 1

New Mexico- 1

[RabidRunner]

the UT System is wasting zero dollars on athletics because the UTSA athletics program will be funded the exact same way that UNTs athletics are through student fees and some tickets sold and donor support......you can't spend direct state dollars on athletics in Texas and UNT at least has a market with no pro or college competition on a level close to the same level of future competition UTSA will be up playing....UTSA students voted to spend THEIR money on athletics the same way UNT students voted to spend future students money on athletics

the fact that UTSA, UTA or any of the other UT system schools choose to do something is in no way related to what UT Austin does because they are individual universities not just a branch campus and they are looking to further that idea and build their own support and individuality

X2

[NT80]

UNT at least has a market with no pro or college competition on a level close to the same level of future competition UTSA will be up playing...

UNT is not on the level of a startup like UTSA if that is what you're implying. UNT is a non-AQ FBS program, same as SMUt and TCU. UTSA will start as an FCS program and hope to move up. Currently no moveups are allowed.

[TodgeRodge]

UNT is not on the level of a startup like UTSA if that is what you're implying. UNT is a non-AQ FBS program, same as SMUt and TCU. UTSA will start as an FCS program and hope to move up. Currently no moveups are allowed.

it is in place until August 2011.....so it ends before next season....they already have recruits......they already have facilities.....and now they have a conference that not only wants them, but needs them

so look for UTSA to get a pass to be in the WAC by 2012 and probably TxState as well along with a stadium expansion which has already been announced

and at that point both will basically be 5 wins in 3 seasons and 3 games away from being on the same level as UNT

99% of this board makes the case that UNT and the metroplex and all those people means something to someone....even with a very popular pro team and two other teams that are doing more and much more

the San Antonio market could only be looked upon the same way correct?.....especially since they have no pro team to actually watch live, they have only a new D-III program and UT that sells out, charges high prices, and is at least 4+ hours driving round trip for a large part of their market especially when you count in the Austin game day traffic coming and going....as much as people want to talk about UT and T-shirt fans that is a lot of time and effort and expense...UTSA will be there and indoors and in a place most are familiar with...they basically have that market to themselves

the NCAA is really not going to let the WAC die and have to deal with all the independents and them wanting some way to still play in bowl games....and they don't want to see more bowl games created by cities trying to start a bowl for their now independent university (don't think some won't try).....and the AQ teams have not yet figured out how to legally shake the 26-40 D1-A teams they want to shake yet back down to some hybrid cream of the crop D1-AA and former D1-A division

so UTSA and TxState to the WAC....maybe one other

then in a few years look for the AQ + a few to shake up conferences again and then bye bye to at least 2 non-Aq conferences + probably a few other teams

but either way anything that UNT thinks it has to sell or offer to fans UTSA has all that and more....they just need the 5 wins in 3 years with a couple over TxState or even a D1-AA team or another that just moved up to the Belt and they will be where UNT is at

[PlummMeanGreen]

...but either way anything that UNT thinks it has to sell or offer to fans UTSA has all that and more....they just need the 5 wins in 3 years with a couple over TxState or even a D1-AA team or another that just moved up to the Belt and they will be where UNT is at

...except for the fact that (most likely a ) UNT Big Time Coach Hiring coupled with A UNT Big Time Well Located Stadium ='s unparalleled success never seen in Denton during any era (Abner Haynes/Sun Bowl, Joe Greene's or Hayden Fry's included) and a success that some in CUSA will never be able to duplicate. Dont' judge UNT on the last 14 years because most all our fans will not accept those comparisons any longer. This new stadium will create that attitude change and from reading this board now--it already has.

UTSA doesn't have NCAA Division One legacy or background which started for UNT in the Abner Haynes--Sun Bowl era, either. Have you seen our ever-expanding UNT Athletic Hall of Fame at the Mean Green Village? Quite impressive for recruits (and alums) to see. What does UTSA show their recruits--the Alamo and a brochure of what "could be?"

Ding! Dong! The WAC Is Dead (as far as a FBS operating level is concerned). Karl Benson would not give UNT the time of day at one time quite a while back--now a little justice is being served I would say.

GMG!

Edited September 22, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[PlummMeanGreen]

This from Coach Andy Mac on the Tavern:

http://www.annarbor.com/news/emu-ad-mac-...ar-future/

Sorry, link doesn't seem to be working.

According to the above link, the MAC may look to expand within the next two years, and Temple more than likely will be joining a new conference. I said all along that the Big East and Temple would more than likely strike a deal. I beleive the key to that deal is Villanova (since both Temple and Villanova are in the Philly area). Since Villanova has been extended an offer to bring their football up to the FBS Big East level, odds are that Temple and its now solid football and always solid basketball programs will join the Big East. As for MAC additions, I could definitely see offers to either WKU and MTSU, or both. That is, unless Missouri State decides to move up their football to the FBS level. Then I could see them replacing either WKU or MTSU on that list.

Things are getting interesting...is the SBC Office paying attention to all of this?

View the full article

Edited September 23, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[NT80]

it is in place until August 2011.....so it ends before next season....they already have recruits......they already have facilities.....and now they have a conference that not only wants them, but needs them

so look for UTSA to get a pass to be in the WAC by 2012 and probably TxState as well along with a stadium expansion which has already been announced

and at that point both will basically be 5 wins in 3 seasons and 3 games away from being on the same level as UNT

99% of this board makes the case that UNT and the metroplex and all those people means something to someone....even with a very popular pro team and two other teams that are doing more and much more

the San Antonio market could only be looked upon the same way correct?.....especially since they have no pro team to actually watch live, they have only a new D-III program and UT that sells out, charges high prices, and is at least 4+ hours driving round trip for a large part of their market especially when you count in the Austin game day traffic coming and going....as much as people want to talk about UT and T-shirt fans that is a lot of time and effort and expense...UTSA will be there and indoors and in a place most are familiar with...they basically have that market to themselves

the NCAA is really not going to let the WAC die and have to deal with all the independents and them wanting some way to still play in bowl games....and they don't want to see more bowl games created by cities trying to start a bowl for their now independent university (don't think some won't try).....and the AQ teams have not yet figured out how to legally shake the 26-40 D1-A teams they want to shake yet back down to some hybrid cream of the crop D1-AA and former D1-A division

so UTSA and TxState to the WAC....maybe one other

then in a few years look for the AQ + a few to shake up conferences again and then bye bye to at least 2 non-Aq conferences + probably a few other teams

but either way anything that UNT thinks it has to sell or offer to fans UTSA has all that and more....they just need the 5 wins in 3 years with a couple over TxState or even a D1-AA team or another that just moved up to the Belt and they will be where UNT is at

Seriously? Why not just invite UTSA and TX-San Marcos into the Big12-2 now and skip all the steps? The moritorium on moveups still remains.

[Rudy]

Seriously? Why not just invite UTSA and TX-San Marcos into the Big12-2 now and skip all the steps? The moritorium on moveups still remains.

Eactly! The way it sounds from some lurkers, they have already surpassed us even BEFORE they have a program.

[MeanMag]

so basically you can't support that pile of self serving BS about one of the worst D1-A teams over their history (that dropped down to D1-AA at one point) offering anything unique in the metroplex (a metroplex with a pro football team, two college teams, and a huge number of fans of schools with long traditions of winning and fan support) much less the ridiculous accusation that the UT System is wasting money on football while UNT is investing in something unique and special

so you have to break out the "who are you a fan of" and troll flag

way to support a point VS actually further validate it

the post I replied to was about as rich as UNT fans accusing others of not letting them play in their sand box and then turning right around and telling TxState and UTSA to stay out of your scoop of sand

Todge Rodge, I have been trying to determine if you are a fan of our football team or not. Most of what you post are counterpoints to everyone here, and to a great extent - factual. I will pull out the, "who are you a fan of?" flag, because I really can't tell. UNT has done some truly stupid things over the years with athletics. But it doesn't seem like you come out and support anything they do one way or the other. Everything you posted in this thread was, "Yea, the WAC sucks and yea, CUSA isn't going to come calling and Sun Belt isn't great either. I don't know if you are a defeated fan, not a fan, or just defeated.

It's more of a woe is UNT attitude.

[TodgeRodge]

Seriously? Why not just invite UTSA and TX-San Marcos into the Big12-2 now and skip all the steps? The moritorium on moveups still remains.

yes until August 2011....then it ends....UTSA has a schedule for 2011 and then they have 8 D1-AA teams for 2012...the WAC would give them 6 other games to equal a 14 and they can easily ditch some of the D1-AA games because the Southland will probably want to dump them anyway and that gives them a schedule for a provisional membership season to D1-A with no bowl eligibility

in 2013 they are scheduled to play OkState in SA, AZ, Houston in SA, and VA + the six WAC games + fellow new WAC member TxState gives them 11 D1-A games so they would need to add one more which they have plenty of time to do

you pretend that UTSA is doing this in a vacuum or that the NCAA is just sitting there watching UTSA schedule 4 D1-A programs in 2013 and UTSA and TxState meeting with the WAC and thinking "well we are still undecided on letting programs move up, lets risk a huge lawsuit several of our members having to switch up their schedules, and one of our conferences die on the vine while these programs make promises to fans and our current members that we are going to squash"

you think OkState, AX, Houston, and VA just scheduled UTSA without checking with the NCAA to see how those games would count towards their own schedule and bowl eligibility

I am not saying that UTSA will ever pass UNT by....but I am saying that if UNT goes on their current pace and UTSA manages to somehow go 2-10 or 3-9 in the same time frame then they would be at least bumper to bumper with you and well in the race

if UNT gets a new guy and goes 4-8, 5-7 and UTSA is 3-9, 3-9 they will be pacing you and still in the race

USF started off 5-6 D1-AA independent and went 4 years I am saying UTSA will start...D1-AA 1 year then one year provisional D1-A then full D1-A

that is pretty much the schedule they have set up already and I see absolutely no reason the NCAA would be watching all of this and not at least give them a hint to throttle back and USF had a winning record in D1-A as an independent their first 2 years in a row then the first in CUSA.....and those D1 wins would have started with players that would have been red shirts from their 3rd recruiting class (I Believe or possibly second) so you can field a team that can move to D1-A and win pretty quickly

will UTSA do this....who knows they could go 1-11 for 8 years straight and UNT could get a coach and go 4-8, 6-7 with a bowl, and 8-5 with a bowl loss and then 9-4 with a bowl win and continue to stay above .500

[All About UNT]

yes until August 2011....then it ends....UTSA has a schedule for 2011 and then they have 8 D1-AA teams for 2012...the WAC would give them 6 other games to equal a 14 and they can easily ditch some of the D1-AA games because the Southland will probably want to dump them anyway and that gives them a schedule for a provisional membership season to D1-A with no bowl eligibility

in 2013 they are scheduled to play OkState in SA, AZ, Houston in SA, and VA + the six WAC games + fellow new WAC member TxState gives them 11 D1-A games so they would need to add one more which they have plenty of time to do

you pretend that UTSA is doing this in a vacuum or that the NCAA is just sitting there watching UTSA schedule 4 D1-A programs in 2013 and UTSA and TxState meeting with the WAC and thinking "well we are still undecided on letting programs move up, lets risk a huge lawsuit several of our members having to switch up their schedules, and one of our conferences die on the vine while these programs make promises to fans and our current members that we are going to squash"

you think OkState, AX, Houston, and VA just scheduled UTSA without checking with the NCAA to see how those games would count towards their own schedule and bowl eligibility

I am not saying that UTSA will ever pass UNT by....but I am saying that if UNT goes on their current pace and UTSA manages to somehow go 2-10 or 3-9 in the same time frame then they would be at least bumper to bumper with you and well in the race

if UNT gets a new guy and goes 4-8, 5-7 and UTSA is 3-9, 3-9 they will be pacing you and still in the race

USF started off 5-6 D1-AA independent and went 4 years I am saying UTSA will start...D1-AA 1 year then one year provisional D1-A then full D1-A

that is pretty much the schedule they have set up already and I see absolutely no reason the NCAA would be watching all of this and not at least give them a hint to throttle back and USF had a winning record in D1-A as an independent their first 2 years in a row then the first in CUSA.....and those D1 wins would have started with players that would have been red shirts from their 3rd recruiting class (I Believe or possibly second) so you can field a team that can move to D1-A and win pretty quickly

will UTSA do this....who knows they could go 1-11 for 8 years straight and UNT could get a coach and go 4-8, 6-7 with a bowl, and 8-5 with a bowl loss and then 9-4 with a bowl win and continue to stay above .500

These are clear indicators of a troll

[GrayEagle]

Todge Rodge, I have been trying to determine if you are a fan of our football team or not. Most of what you post are counterpoints to everyone here, and to a great extent - factual. I will pull out the, "who are you a fan of?" flag, because I really can't tell. UNT has done some truly stupid things over the years with athletics. But it doesn't seem like you come out and support anything they do one way or the other. Everything you posted in this thread was, "Yea, the WAC sucks and yea, CUSA isn't going to come calling and Sun Belt isn't great either. I don't know if you are a defeated fan, not a fan, or just defeated.

It's more of a woe is UNT attitude.

Ask how many really care.

[TodgeRodge]

Todge Rodge, I have been trying to determine if you are a fan of our football team or not. Most of what you post are counterpoints to everyone here, and to a great extent - factual. I will pull out the, "who are you a fan of?" flag, because I really can't tell. UNT has done some truly stupid things over the years with athletics. But it doesn't seem like you come out and support anything they do one way or the other. Everything you posted in this thread was, "Yea, the WAC sucks and yea, CUSA isn't going to come calling and Sun Belt isn't great either. I don't know if you are a defeated fan, not a fan, or just defeated.

It's more of a woe is UNT attitude.

I have been a student at a few schools that play D1-A ball including UNT....and I have worked for another university.....so there are several I could "claim" (really can't you cheer for who you want in a free country )

I am not trying to say that UNT needs to accept the situation they are in, but they need to be realistic about the situation they are in

there is a lot of instability at the top of the university......you have a number of non-academics with other ideas about what higher education in general means and how higher education dollars should be spent that make a lot of important decisions for the university and right now athletics in Denton is not really all that important to them other than to keep what is in placed funded about like it is

it is really as bad now as ever and under a new administration it really might not get much better and that means that athletics might be treated about like they are now....the student fee will help.....it might even get raised over time....but the private dollars will probably be difficult to come by other than direct sponsorships and those are a hard sell and some of those are spoken for with half a stadium's cost needed

I don't think that a new administration at the presidents level (and I know above that) is being looked at that is going to make a university wide focus and long term plan for athletics like USF, Boise, TCU, SMU (if it holds), and some others have made...and like I see UTSA making (which in no way means they will have any success)......and it is because of well above the AD and football fans gaining a voice for what goes on above the AD means taking off the football fan hat and putting on an educated about my place of higher education hat and making an educated coordinated call for change

I believe too many feel the lack of a coordinated plan and a clearer long term vision for athletics is because of athletics, but IMO it is because higher than athletics has either never had the desire or never had the time to get a university sanctioned plan in place for the long term.....and the places that I see not doing that are the places that have "a year here and a year there" or "three or four years and futility for a time"

building a new stadium is great, but it is really not a plan to incorporate athletics fully into the identity of the university which is what I have seen the non-AG programs that have really made something do and do well...and that starts well above athletics

Edited September 23, 2010 by TodgeRodge

[TheColonyEagle]

it is in place until August 2011.....so it ends before next season....they already have recruits......they already have facilities.....and now they have a conference that not only wants them, but needs them

so look for UTSA to get a pass to be in the WAC by 2012 and probably TxState as well along with a stadium expansion which has already been announced

and at that point both will basically be 5 wins in 3 seasons and 3 games away from being on the same level as UNT

99% of this board makes the case that UNT and the metroplex and all those people means something to someone....even with a very popular pro team and two other teams that are doing more and much more

the San Antonio market could only be looked upon the same way correct?.....especially since they have no pro team to actually watch live, they have only a new D-III program and UT that sells out, charges high prices, and is at least 4+ hours driving round trip for a large part of their market especially when you count in the Austin game day traffic coming and going....as much as people want to talk about UT and T-shirt fans that is a lot of time and effort and expense...UTSA will be there and indoors and in a place most are familiar with...they basically have that market to themselves

the NCAA is really not going to let the WAC die and have to deal with all the independents and them wanting some way to still play in bowl

games....and they don't want to see more bowl games created by cities trying to start a bowl for their now independent university (don't think some won't try).....and the AQ teams have not yet figured out how to legally shake the 26-40 D1-A teams they want to shake yet back down to some hybrid cream of the crop D1-AA and former D1-A division

so UTSA and TxState to the WAC....maybe one other

then in a few years look for the AQ + a few to shake up conferences again and then bye bye to at least 2 non-Aq conferences + probably a few other teams

but either way anything that UNT thinks it has to sell or offer to fans UTSA has all that and more....they just need the 5 wins in 3 years with a couple over TxState or even a D1-AA team or another that just moved up to the Belt and they will be where UNT is at

Moving UNT to the WAC doesn't give UNT any of the advantages you list here.

Seems to me you would think what UNT needs to do is move the campus to San Antonio.