Real Class Acts

[meangreenbob]

And there are probably more. I am looking forward to next year. I believe Coach Dodge will right this ship.

[LittleMeanGreenMan]

And there are probably more. I am looking forward to next year. I believe Coach Dodge will right this ship.

were you drunk when you wrote this? what do daniel meager and matt philips have to do with anything?

[Keith7]

they never quit on their team

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

By the way, before Dodge's sycophants get carried away, the Meagers have also had contact with folks from the board and they feel about the same way as the Vizzas. Sorry, to disappoint you.

Also, Vizza was in a much different situation. Once Meager was (questionably) replaced as a starter, he only had one year of eligibility remaining. Off the field, of course, he was close to graduating.

The case is not the same for Vizza. He's got three years to play two. As a sophomore, he's still into getting requireds out of the way in the classroom before getting into upper level coursework. To compare the situation of those two is not comparing apples to apples, then, on the field or off of it.

The only thing they have in common is unhappiness with the coaching staff and its decisions. Vizza is still young enough to transfer and not have it cause much of a ripple in his academic work. That wasn't the case for Meager, nor is it for anyone who's already four years into five years of his eligibility.

Love,

Kenny Evans (according to RV's board-checking underling)

[Rudy]

they never quit on their team

Boom goes the dynamyte

[emmitt01]

they never quit on their team

Where does this crap come from? So no player is ever allowed to leave or transfer...or is it just that they're never allowed to leave our team? If a kid goes off to play college ball at a school far from home and gets homesick is he a quitter? What if he changes majors and realizes another school has a stronger program in what he wants to study? Quitter? If there is a logjam at his position and he transfers to where there is more playing time? Quitter then too? If he went to a school only to be close to his girlfriend and then realizes the error of his ways...let me guess, quitter right?

Lord knows that signing a scholarship means you're bound by blood to a school...the NCAA came up with transfer rules because they were bored and needed more legislation to write. Yeah, that must be it.

The kid decided to leave, for his reasons. Whatever they were they were his reasons. That ANY of you think he owes it to you, our university, or anyone else to stick it out when he no longer wanted to be here is beyond comical. This is 4 years of HIS life. This is HIS college career...one that he doesn't get a do-over on, but we sure can sit back on our high horses and judge him now can't we?

[LittleMeanGreenMan]

Where does this crap come from? So no player is ever allowed to leave or transfer...or is it just that they're never allowed to leave our team? If a kid goes off to play college ball at a school far from home and gets homesick is he a quitter? What if he changes majors and realizes another school has a stronger program in what he wants to study? Quitter? If there is a logjam at his position and he transfers to where there is more playing time? Quitter then too? If he went to a school only to be close to his girlfriend and then realizes the error of his ways...let me guess, quitter right?

Lord knows that signing a scholarship means you're bound by blood to a school...the NCAA came up with transfer rules because they were bored and needed more legislation to write. Yeah, that must be it.

The kid decided to leave, for his reasons. Whatever they were they were his reasons. That ANY of you think he owes it to you, our university, or anyone else to stick it out when he no longer wanted to be here is beyond comical. This is 4 years of HIS life. This is HIS college career...one that he doesn't get a do-over on, but we sure can sit back on our high horses and judge him now can't we?

for once i agree with you. if i only had 4 years to play, i would want to have a chance to win some games, maybe get on tv once or twice. i don't blame him. no different than leaving a job for greener pastures/more money/better benefits, etc. no different.

[Cerebus]

Scholarships aren't a four (or five) year contract.

They are, de facto, yearly renewable by each side.

Coaches can chase off players, and take an APR hit.

Players can choose to leave, and lose one of the 5 to play 4.

[ForneyGreen]

Coaches can chase off players, and take an APR hit.

Players can choose to leave, and lose one of the 5 to play 4.

Since this has been brought up - a question for those who know a lot more than myself about scholly rules.

1) Does Vizza's voluntary leave count against our APR score?

2) Is this scholly immediately reusable (for a player that would be here either Spring or Summer)?

[stebo]

LoRo,

I have been corrected twice on my statement that he will lose a year of playing time if he leaves... your comment "Players can choose to leave, and lose one of the 5 to play 4" seems to agree with my understanding. If they move DOWN (to a IAA or Div II, III, etc..) than they don't lose that year... if they move UP (from a IAA to a IA)... or laterally, from IA to IA - they lose a year, right? The only exception would be a provisional IA in its first year of transition like WKY last year... or if a player moves up from a JUCO to any other level. Is that correct?

I think if Vizza leaves for a IA school, he has to sit out a year and then will have his senior year to play. He can't use his RS year to sit out, by transferring to a lateral school (if he indeed goes to a IA school) - will forfeit one year of eligibility. Releasing him from his ship only lets the other school pick up the tab during that sit out period.

[Cerebus]

Stebo, you lose one of the 5 if you go from FBS to FBS, unless the NCAA gives you a waiver. Like the kid whose HS coach was paid by boosters to sway him to a school. That rarely happens.

However, on of the 5 can be your "redshirt" years.

[Censored by Laurie]

LoRo,

I have been corrected twice on my statement that he will lose a year of playing time if he leaves... your comment "Players can choose to leave, and lose one of the 5 to play 4" seems to agree with my understanding. If they move DOWN (to a IAA or Div II, III, etc..) than they don't lose that year... if they move UP (from a IAA to a IA)... or laterally, from IA to IA - they lose a year, right? The only exception would be a provisional IA in its first year of transition like WKY last year... or if a player moves up from a JUCO to any other level. Is that correct?

I think if Vizza leaves for a IA school, he has to sit out a year and then will have his senior year to play. He can't use his RS year to sit out, by transferring to a lateral school (if he indeed goes to a IA school) - will forfeit one year of eligibility. Releasing him from his ship only lets the other school pick up the tab during that sit out period.

No. His redshirt year would be this coming year, assuming he goes FBS. So lets say he ends up at Rice, he'd sit out next season per NCAA transfer rules, then he'd have both his junior and senior playing years available. It happens all the time in college basketball...frequently to the benefit of UNT.

[stebo]

Ok, got it... thanks guys..

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

No one has answered FG's question so I'll give my opinion and someone that knows for sure can correct me if I am wrong.

Does Vizza's voluntary leave count against our APR score?

If he left voluntarily and was in good scholastic standing then I don't believe that it would count against our APR score.

Is this scholly immediately reusuable?

I'd say yes with an *. There is a maximum number of scholarships allowed at any one time (85) less those reduced by the NCAA. If Vizza has officially left the program then the total number in use is reduced by one. However, the recipient would have to already be enrolled in order to be eligible for spring training. As a practical matter though, it would make no difference. You do not have to be on scholarship to participate in spring practice.

[untbowler]

No one has answered FG's question so I'll give my opinion and someone that knows for sure can correct me if I am wrong.

Does Vizza's voluntary leave count against our APR score?

If he left voluntarily and was in good scholastic standing then I don't believe that it would count against our APR score.

Is this scholly immediately reusuable?

I'd say yes with an *. There is a maximum number of scholarships allowed at any one time (85) less those reduced by the NCAA. If Vizza has officially left the program then the total number in use is reduced by one. However, the recipient would have to already be enrolled in order to be eligible for spring training. As a practical matter though, it would make no difference. You do not have to be on scholarship to participate in spring practice.

I always thought it cost us a point no matter why a player leaves the program/sport prior to graduation, but it is 2 pts if the player leaves in bad academic standing?

[Green Mean]

Where does this crap come from? So no player is ever allowed to leave or transfer...or is it just that they're never allowed to leave our team? If a kid goes off to play college ball at a school far from home and gets homesick is he a quitter? What if he changes majors and realizes another school has a stronger program in what he wants to study? Quitter? If there is a logjam at his position and he transfers to where there is more playing time? Quitter then too? If he went to a school only to be close to his girlfriend and then realizes the error of his ways...let me guess, quitter right?

Lord knows that signing a scholarship means you're bound by blood to a school...the NCAA came up with transfer rules because they were bored and needed more legislation to write. Yeah, that must be it.

The kid decided to leave, for his reasons. Whatever they were they were his reasons. That ANY of you think he owes it to you, our university, or anyone else to stick it out when he no longer wanted to be here is beyond comical. This is 4 years of HIS life. This is HIS college career...one that he doesn't get a do-over on, but we sure can sit back on our high horses and judge him now can't we?

Completely agree with your post. It is definitely in the picture as post of the week.

[UNTLifer]

Where does this crap come from? So no player is ever allowed to leave or transfer...or is it just that they're never allowed to leave our team? If a kid goes off to play college ball at a school far from home and gets homesick is he a quitter? What if he changes majors and realizes another school has a stronger program in what he wants to study? Quitter? If there is a logjam at his position and he transfers to where there is more playing time? Quitter then too? If he went to a school only to be close to his girlfriend and then realizes the error of his ways...let me guess, quitter right?

Lord knows that signing a scholarship means you're bound by blood to a school...the NCAA came up with transfer rules because they were bored and needed more legislation to write. Yeah, that must be it.

The kid decided to leave, for his Dad's reasons. Whatever they were they were his Dad's reasons. That ANY of you think he owes it to you, our university, or anyone else to stick it out when his Dad no longer wanted to him here is beyond comical. This is 4 years of HIS son's that he is living vicariously through, life. This is HIS college career...one that he doesn't get a do-over on, but we sure can sit back on our high horses and judge him now can't we?

Fixed

[Baby Arm!]

for once i agree with you. if i only had 4 years to play, i would want to have a chance to win some games, maybe get on tv once or twice. i don't blame him. no different than leaving a job for greener pastures/more money/better benefits, etc. no different.

Based on that standard why would ANYONE play for UNT to begin with??

BTW, Emmit is right. Whatever Vizza's reasons (or his Dad's) the kid has a right to decide for himself where he wants to finish his college playing career, (Just like he had a choice to change teams when he was in high school). We don't have to like his choice, but he got a right to make it and good luck to him.

[Rudy]

Look, yes it is his, or his dad's, decision. We dont have to like it. But, the thing about it that bugs me the most is that he chose to do it NOW. He could have done it right after the season and given Dodge a chance to recruit a QB in addition to our other needs. He could have been warning Dodge that he was thinking about leaving for the same reason. Or, he could have gone to Dodge, like a man, and said that he did not like where the program was going, and try to help make changes, like a leader should. What does he do? He leaves out of the blue in MID JANUARY. To me, that is quitting on the program. I dont care about that he is leaving. If he doesnt want to be here, then I dont want him here. But dont screw the rest of the team who is going to try and stick it out.

[meangreenbob]

Look, yes it is his, or his dad's, decision. We dont have to like it. But, the thing about it that bugs me the most is that he chose to do it NOW. He could have done it right after the season and given Dodge a chance to recruit a QB in addition to our other needs. He could have been warning Dodge that he was thinking about leaving for the same reason. Or, he could have gone to Dodge, like a man, and said that he did not like where the program was going, and try to help make changes, like a leader should. What does he do? He leaves out of the blue in MID JANUARY. To me, that is quitting on the program. I dont care about that he is leaving. If he doesnt want to be here, then I dont want him here. But dont screw the rest of the team who is going to try and stick it out.

Good points. Also, didn't Vizza made a big deal in his statement about how hard it was to leave the other players? Well couldn't that be taken as somewhat insincere considering his timing and how that hurts recruiting another QB this late in the game and the adverse affect that will have on those very players he will miss so much?

[meangreanmick]

Where does this crap come from? So no player is ever allowed to leave or transfer...or is it just that they're never allowed to leave our team? If a kid goes off to play college ball at a school far from home and gets homesick is he a quitter? What if he changes majors and realizes another school has a stronger program in what he wants to study? Quitter? If there is a logjam at his position and he transfers to where there is more playing time? Quitter then too? If he went to a school only to be close to his girlfriend and then realizes the error of his ways...let me guess, quitter right?

Lord knows that signing a scholarship means you're bound by blood to a school...the NCAA came up with transfer rules because they were bored and needed more legislation to write. Yeah, that must be it.

The kid decided to leave, for his reasons. Whatever they were they were his reasons. That ANY of you think he owes it to you, our university, or anyone else to stick it out when he no longer wanted to be here is beyond comical. This is 4 years of HIS life. This is HIS college career...one that he doesn't get a do-over on, but we sure can sit back on our high horses and judge him now can't we?

I have to politely disagree with your opinion. The fact of the matter is he made a comittment to the school to play football and we made a comittment to pay for his tuition. We would not have done that if he would have said, sure I will come play football for 2 years if you let me start and then I will go somewhere else. The fact of the matter is this didn't turn out exactly like he wanted so he decided to take his toys and go somewhere else. That is quitting pure and simple. Trying to call it anything else is just putting lipstick on a pig. Vizza quite obviously will not be playing in the NFL when he is done. so this is about getting a free education at a great school and playing college football for a few years. Every bit of that could have happened for him at UNT. If he was my son (I have 2) I would tell him he made a comittment, maybe it didn't turn out exactly like he wanted, but he needs to fullfill that and then move on. The only lesson he will have learned out of this is, if things don't go like you want, quit and go somewhere else.

Is he free to leave? Sure he can leave anytime, its his choice. But lets think of this from a business perspective. When I am hiring someone whose resume has job change after job change. I am obviously going to ask them why so many changes because it clearly looks like someone that thinks the grass is always greener on the other side, is all about "me" and cannot be counted on to have any loyalty. If I am hiring a college student right off campus and I get an inkling they are more caught up in themselves than any comittment and are a candidate to leave after a year or 2 for "something better", I am going to pass on them.

[nautique]

I don't think the coaches were surprised at all at losing more players.

What they say in the media is a little different than what "might" be said behind closed doors. Nah. They always spin the truth.