Unt Consider Cost Of New Stadium

[NT80]

Very good, long article from Brett about the stadium issues and upcoming student vote........

http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/...0.92ee4e5f.html

[greenminer]

That enthusiasm is also beginning to expand to boosters. UNT burned the note for the loan on the Mean Green Athletic Center before its home opener against the University of Tulsa, and saw it pay dividends that day in the form of a six-figure gift to the athletic department and two commitments for five-figure gifts.

I did not know that.

[UNTLifer]

Adler, a letter to the editor would be appropriate.

McNulty is an idiot. I'm so tired of that arguement. What if there was a need for facilities in academic areas that were subpar. Cutting off funding just makes the situation worse.

[untgeorge]

Damn Vito, refuses to acknowledge the forest through the trees.

Texas State just raised it's athletics fees to $20 per credit hour up to 15 hours. That's $300 per semester, $600 per year, plus an additional fee for summer courses.

Texas-San Antonio just raised it's athletics fees to $20 per credit hour up to 12 hours. That's $240 per semester, $480 per year, plus an additional fee for summer courses.

Sun Belt member South Alabama just raised their athletics fee to a standardized $252 per semester. That $504 per year, plus an additional fee for summer courses.

Those schools all intend to compete with North Texas at the NCAA Bowl Championship (1-A) level. UTSA (Alamodome) and South Alabama (Ladd Peebles Stadium) already have incredible stadiums.

Meanwhile North Texas has to grovel just to get it's student fee raised from $3 per hour to support a program that has been financially starved for decades.

And then Vito uses Lamar's new fee of $8.75 per semester credit hour for long semesters and $4.50 per semester hour for summer sessions as the example of what the "competition" is doing. Brett knows damn well that Lamar is only intending to raise enough revenue to reinstate (1-AA) football to play in the Southland against McNeese, S.E. Louisiana, N.W. State, SFASU, and SHSU. There are no intentions to move to the NCAA Bowl Championship subdivision.

I don't think this can be viewed as an accident. It's a bunch of bullshit an Vito is smart enough to know he's doing it.

Vito said in his article that UNT is near the bottom in the State of Texas in student funding. What more does any reader want? What he said is sufficient.

He could also say that UNT is near the bottom of 1A in funding by alums and other fans. But you don't want him to say that, do you.

[Green Guy Bass]

And yes, Vito holds a vendetta against North Texas. Although most of material carries an insulting tone, it's harmless. Screwing with the future foundation of this program is a slightly different matter.

You don't know what you are talking about. Vito is a journalist. Just because you don't like what he is reporting, doesn't mean that he has some vendetta against the University. You really think he wants NT to fail?? Wake up dude. Brett is not fabricating anything in his story and is not going out of his way to cast NT in a negative light. Chill out.

Edited September 20, 2008 by Green Guy Bass

[CMJ]

Agreed, I've never had a feeling that Vito has anything against NT. He reports facts, and yes....often they suck. Hell, he probably has more fun if/when we do well, so I think it's ridiculous to suggest he has a vendetta aginst us.

[JayDub]

Just because you don't like what he is reporting, doesn't mean that he has some vendetta against the University. You really think he wants NT to fail?? Wake up dude. Brett is not fabricating anything in his story and is not going out of his way to cast NT in a negative light. Chill out.

I second this. Brett is, by all accounts, a pretty fair guy...Just because what he reports isn't shiny, happy, good-times doesn't mean it isn't true.

Why does everything have to be a conspiracy?

[keith]

Did Texas State and UTSA have to have a student vote to raise their fees? Does anyone know what their fees were before they were raised?

Keith

Edited September 21, 2008 by keith

[GreenAlums]

The one component I continue to see missing in any article or conversation about the stadium is the partnership that we don't have with the city of Denton. Somehow, the city of Denton fails to see the huge advantages to the infrastructure of Denton a new stadium would be. I wonder how long they will seemingly stay silent on the issue. When Jerry Jones began the pitch for Jerry World to the DFW metroplex there was a battle to gain his attention. Arlington took on the project with open arms. Where is the city of Denton when it come to representing their piece of this puzzle. Just suppose another city were to be interested in building a UNT stadium. Lewisville, Frisco, Grand Prarie..... I contend that is not as far fetched as it may seem the first time you hear it. Denton really has a lot to lose here. It seems like they aren't even the least bit concerned because they have never been held accountable for contributing to what must be the largest employer in the city, maybe even the county. I'm feelin' no luv here! I'm not saying they should carry the burden, just pick up a grain of sand every once in a while.

[NT91]

"Villarreal Park at NT"...sounds good to me!

[FirefightnRick]

UNT officials and some student government leaders say the time has arrived for the student body to increase its commitment to athletics, as several other schools across the country have done to improve their programs.

Lamar University’s students recently approved a fee of $8.75 per credit hour to help revive the school’s football program. UNT’s Sun Belt Conference rival Western Kentucky University boosted its student athletic fee by $70 per student in fall 2007.

Yep, definately missed the opportunity to DRIVE home the point EVEN MORE so by not mentioning that IN STATE programs such as Texas State San Marcus raised their fees just to simply move up to 1-A and UT San Antonio did so as well just to start up a program. If your going to mention Lamar University(who????, is that in Texas????) you might want to mention a school or two that someone around here actually has heard of?

Rick

[mad dog]

I second this. Brett is, by all accounts, a pretty fair guy...Just because what he reports isn't shiny, happy, good-times doesn't mean it isn't true.

Why does everything have to be a conspiracy?

/agree

[eulessismore]

Just in case it hasn't already been noted here, the same article is in today's Dallas Morning News; Metro Section, page 5. That article is referenced on the front page sidebar of section 2 of the sports page (college football).

[Green Mean]

Adler,

I am not sure what you have against Vito...I kind of think you may have some kind of Vendetta out on him. If you think he wants NT to fail you are obviously failing to see that he is a journalist. He FOR SURE wants NT to win because it only helps him since he does cover the university. Also he is a journalist that provides facts and let me tell you something that facts do not lie. If NT loses 28 out of 32 games to SMU then that is no lie....so what if it was a long time...it is the series record. In college football if teams have never played or if the last time they played was 50 years ago...then the media will mention it. It is their job. Their job is to provide facts whether they are good or bad. If you want things to change then the best way to do that is to look at the mirror and see what you can do to change it. In this case, NT football, athletics, administration etc needs to look in the mirror and need to decide what they need to do to get where they eventually want to be.

[Green Guy Bass]

Yes, that's why every time he mentioned the conference winning streak he had to add "since their 19 to 17 loss to Louisiana Monroe. Funny, I never read who Miami's or Boise's last loss was to during their conference winning streaks, there was no need by other sportswriters to diminish their accomplishments.

Yes, that's why he needs to mention that SMU holds a 39-3 all-time series advantage over North Texas every time that school is mentioned, openly disregarding the fact that SMU leads the series 3-2 during the last quarter century and no player or recruit has any memory of any football predating that, or that the overwhelming majority of the games were played eons ago in leather helmets.

And then there's his "beaten by a cumulative score" statistics. Many other schools have been soundly beaten by the powerhouse schools over the years but you don't have the beat writer emphasizing the cumulative score of the series every article the way Vito does.

And now there is the way that he delights in printing Coach Dodge's record "since he arrived at North Texas" every week.

All that is intended to be insulting, but it's generally harmless. I know he has people that he doesn't like and he revels in their defeats.

This latest attempt isn't harmless. It was an attempt to make the proposed student contribution at North Texas seem excessive by comparing it to a non-football playing Southland Conference school that is considering adding smaller division football. There are currently two state schools in Texas that are planning to join to the same level of football where North Texas plays and both of those schools have recently raised their athletic fees to $20 per hour through student referendums; that is twice what North Texas is even proposing. Other schools in the conference post their athletic fees on their website, and all of them excede what is being proposed at North Texas. In this case the results of his tainted journalism can have serious effects.

Call it what you want, but if a feathered and billed animal swims in the water and quacks, I'm going to guess it's a duck.

You are the one with the vendetta sir.

[emmitt01]

You are the one with the vendetta sir.

Have you ever talked with Brett Vito about North Texas football? If you have it's hard to come away without the impression that he thinks all negatives are par for the course and all positives are "good...relative to North Texas."

And just for reference:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...u.97acd8f7.html

TCU destroyed SMU in this game. I was there, it should have been uglier. Notice that the article opens with a mention of how SMU is capable of beating TCU. Notice that the all-time records between the two teams aren't mentioned at all. Notice that the combined scores of their last five games (though lopsidedly in favor of TCU) aren't mentioned. And is all of this true because the writer is a big ol' SMU homer? Nope. Is it because there is no preconceived need to twist the knife while it's in SMU's back. I would wager that it is.

Nobody expects Vito to go out of his way to pump sunshine up our asses. (It would be a bit hard recently) But the subtle (and not to subtle) digs are over the top. And nobody has addressed yet the necessity in mentioning Lamar to compare our proposed fee when TX State and UTSA (among others) are available and would be more accurate and fair standards.

Edited September 22, 2008 by emmitt01

[Green Dozer]

Damn Vito, refuses to acknowledge the forest through the trees.

Texas State just raised it's athletics fees to $20 per credit hour up to 15 hours. That's $300 per semester, $600 per year, plus an additional fee for summer courses.

Texas-San Antonio just raised it's athletics fees to $20 per credit hour up to 12 hours. That's $240 per semester, $480 per year, plus an additional fee for summer courses.

Sun Belt member South Alabama just raised their athletics fee to a standardized $252 per semester. That $504 per year, plus an additional fee for summer courses.

Those schools all intend to compete with North Texas at the NCAA Bowl Championship (1-A) level. UTSA (Alamodome) and South Alabama (Ladd Peebles Stadium) already have incredible stadiums.

Meanwhile North Texas has to grovel just to get it's student fee raised from $3 per hour to support a program that has been financially starved for decades.

And then Vito uses Lamar's new fee of $8.75 per semester credit hour for long semesters and $4.50 per semester hour for summer sessions as the example of what the "competition" is doing. Brett knows damn well that Lamar is only intending to raise enough revenue to reinstate (1-AA) football to play in the Southland against McNeese, S.E. Louisiana, N.W. State, SFASU, and SHSU. There are no intentions to move to the NCAA Bowl Championship subdivision.

I don't think this can be viewed as an accident. It's a bunch of bullshit an Vito is smart enough to know he's doing it.

You know Adler, I respect you and your opinions. Your heart is indeed in the Mean Green. However, I believe he is just calling like it is, whether some of us like it or not. We have had chances to right this ship for years. Build on the Joe Green Era, then Hayden Fry, then the Sunbelt Championships, etc........we have not got it done. If we as alumnus got of our butts and supported this university over the past 40 years or so, then we would not have to grovel for a student fee. The new stadium will be a big band aid for a way not to have run an athletic program. And you know, we will probably get the student fee passed, get a new stadium, and then what? The story will stay the same, just the cover of the book will change.

[LongJim]

All CFB fans hate the local college beat writer. UNT is no different.

[ADLER]

You know Adler, I respect you and your opinions. Your heart is indeed in the Mean Green. However, I believe he is just calling like it is, whether some of us like it or not. We have had chances to right this ship for years. Build on the Joe Green Era, then Hayden Fry, then the Sunbelt Championships, etc........we have not got it done. If we as alumnus got of our butts and supported this university over the past 40 years or so, then we would not have to grovel for a student fee. The new stadium will be a big band aid for a way not to have run an athletic program. And you know, we will probably get the student fee passed, get a new stadium, and then what? The story will stay the same, just the cover of the book will change.

Why use the Lamar Cardinals and their $85 fee for a potential fledgling 1-AA football program as the example?

Surely, there are better examples.

.

Edited September 23, 2008 by ADLER

[ADLER]

Did Texas State and UTSA have to have a student vote to raise their fees? Does anyone know what their fees were before they were raised?

Keith

Yes, they each had a student referendum pass (by between 60 to 70% at each school). The referendum is raising the fee from $10 per credit hour to $20 per credit hour. UTSA is to cap theirs at 12 hours ( $240 per semester) and Texas State is capping theirs at 15 hours ($300 per semester).

Like UNT, both schools are state assisted colleges with enrollments around the 30,000 range. The students at these two schools have passed referendums which will increase the contributions per student up to 7 times what North Texas students currently pay. Even if the refendum passes at North Texas, the contribution at the other schools will be twice what North Texas students pay in athletic fees.

[DallasGreen]

Why use the Lamar Cardinals and their $85 fee for a potential fledgling 1-AA football program as the example?

Surely, there are better examples. But then again, maybe he doesn't know of the existance of this board.

Sorry, but I believe he was well aware of what he was doing.

There is now a chance to finally begin the process of righting this ship. I don't want petty differences amongst sportswiters, coaches, and athletic department personel to negatively afferct that chance.

Those are the true comparisons that Vito chose to ignore. Hang in there Jeff, I know you have done the research. I have seen the comparisons and graphs as well, and the A D has done in depth discussions with comparable universities. We have never given the funding to our athletic dept. to succeed on a sustained basis. It is truly a pathetic situation for a university of our size. It is even more pathetic that the future visibility of the university is put into the hands of 18 to 20 year olds.

[ADLER]

Those are the true comparisons that Vito chose to ignore. Hang in there Jeff, I know you have done the research. I have seen the comparisons and graphs as well, and the A D has done in depth discussions with comparable universities. We have never given the funding to our athletic dept. to succeed on a sustained basis. It is truly a pathetic situation for a university of our size. It is even more pathetic that the future visibility of the university is put into the hands of 18 to 20 year olds.

People choose to ignore these two colleges as 'smaller schools'. Like I stated earlier, both are in the 30,000 student range and growing quickly (UNT has over 34,000 but 2,212 of those are at the UNT-Dallas campus and will not contribute an athletics fee because UNT-Dallas will be a free-standing university before any increase is enacted).

UTSA already has the Alamodome for their home stadium and Texas State will need to expand their existing facility. North Texas will have to divert a large portion of it's fee towards construction of a new stadium.

Both universities are showing a commitment and their communities and alumni are starting to take notice.

It doesn't take Nostradamus to tell what's going to happen. Yet a decade from now many of you won't be able to figure out exactly "how all these other schools passed us by."

Edited September 22, 2008 by ADLER

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Has anyone commented to Vito on his blog site that he should have used a more pertinent example? Texas State would have been the better example since they have a football program, are nearer to us in size and aspire to become 1-A. UTSA and Lamar are trying to get programs started and restarted respectively so they are not apples to apples. That should have been pointed out to him (Vito) rather than on this message board (unless both were done).

Vendetta may be too strong for Vito's attitude toward North Texas football but I do think that he does not have tha same favor with Dodge that he had with Dickey and he, consciously or unconsciously, does not present us favorably. His columns often do reflect on the negative and the past when there is no real need. On the positive side, I do think that his writing has improved and I'm not aware that he has ever knowingly distorted facts.

If the team does improve and he continues to dwell on the failures of the past, then we should take him to task. Until then, maybe if a few point out the unnecessary negatism in his columns that will be sufficient.

Edited September 22, 2008 by GrayEagleOne

[DallasGreen]

People choose to ignore these two colleges as 'smaller schools'. Like I stated earlier, both are in the 30,000 student range and growing quickly (UNT has over 34,000 but 2,212 of those are at the UNT-Dallas campus and will not contribute an athletics fee because UNT-Dallas will be a free-standing university before any increase is enacted).

UTSA already has the Alamodome for their home stadium and Texas State will need to expand their existing facility. North Texas will have to divert a large portion of it's fee towards construction of a new stadium.

Both universities are showing a commitment and their communities and alumni are starting to take notice.

It doesn't take Nostradamus to tell what's going to happen. Yet a decade from now many of you won't be able to figure out exactly "how all these other schools passed us by."

I feel most have no clue as to just how far we are behind even to SBC teams. Many on this board need to vsit fellow SBC member campuses. We are not unique in having 100K alumni and 30K student body. The difference is that most of our SBC mates have traditional students that have loyalty that continues as alums.

[RETSO]

Just suppose another city were to be interested in building a UNT stadium. Lewisville, Frisco, Grand Prarie..... I contend that is not as far fetched as it may seem the first time you hear it. Denton really has a lot to lose here. It seems like they aren't even the least bit concerned because they have never been held accountable for contributing to what must be the largest employer in the city, maybe even the county. I'm feelin' no luv here! I'm not saying they should carry the burden, just pick up a grain of sand every once in a while.

I like it...lets put the damm thing out by the Texas Motor Speedway.....15 minutes from Campus...plenty of open space...and local govt's who want and will promote business....

Denton has never shown ANY interest in helping out the UNT athletic cause...

No stadium = a trip back to I-AA or FCS or whatever the hell it is called now.....

Hello McNesse State...were back