Super Pit Question

[UNTLifer]

21 hours ago, wardly said:

 I do think small on baseball, especially when I consider the small attendance and small revenue associated with the sport.

Thinking small is what put us behind every other D1 school.  

[NT80]

3 hours ago, wardly said:

Glad I can't count on you to fund a new ball park and the annual operating costs. Like every one else you don't care what the cost is as long as you are not paying for it, and I don't mean just buying season tickets. Most of us [ me included] are all mouth and no money when it come to committing the amount of financial support necessary for a viable program. Those who think we can draw 4,000 fans per game have not attended a men's basketball game in the past few years that despite a great men's team average attendance is 4,000. I suggest you check out our three local programs attendance before projecting fans in the stands remembering that these schools are in Dallas, Ft. Worth, and Arlington, not isolated in Denton. Regarding being a national contender in 5 years, surely you jest. Please name me a start up program in any sport at any school that reach that height in 5 years. The only one that I can think of is Sam Houston's women's bowling team who won the NCAA national championship in that time frame with a start up program. Sports programs are just like business. What do you want, what do you need, and what are you willing to pay for, and by "you", I mean us.

You rant about operating costs for baseball, but have no issues with us having a softball program.   One that is having good success and getting an upgraded stadium this season.  I get you are not a baseball fan, but you are also not the accountant for NT Athletics.

[Coffee and TV]

23 minutes ago, NT80 said:

You rant about operating costs for baseball, but have no issues with us having a softball program.   One that is having good success and getting an upgraded stadium this season.  I get you are not a baseball fan, but you are also not the accountant for NT Athletics.

Almost like one of them is a requirement under Title IX or something...

[NT80]

1 hour ago, Coffee and TV said:

Almost like one of them is a requirement under Title IX or something...

No.  Not that it actually matters, but NT is 54% women now.  It used to be athletic offerings had to be same percentage of school makeup, or some context to it.  

[Coffee and TV]

1 hour ago, NT80 said:

No.  Not that it actually matters, but NT is 54% women now.  It used to be athletic offerings had to be same percentage of school makeup, or some context to it.  

It does actually matter, and as I understand it the number of scholarship players has to remain around the same. Football has no equivalent to that so in a majority of D1 schools you'll find they have more sports offered for women to counter that differential. If you wish to add baseball to UNT you'll need to find the money to fund another sport for women as they already have softball and now they'll be 15 or so scholarships shorter. That's my interpretation of how it works at least.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Coffee and TV

[wardly]

5 hours ago, NT80 said:

You rant about operating costs for baseball, but have no issues with us having a softball program.   One that is having good success and getting an upgraded stadium this season.  I get you are not a baseball fan, but you are also not the accountant for NT Athletics.

I don't believe that I have "ranted" but only expressed my opinion, as have you, regarding what I consider to be a financially  irresponsible position in adding  a baseball program. Regarding softball, we evidently inherited an adequate venue for our program that initially did not require a multi dollar investment by the university. In a perfect world I would support the construction of a new softball park to support our excellent women's program.  I have never stated that I was not a baseball fan . I am just not a fan of pissing off millions of dollars just because someone thinks it would be a neat thing to have. Since you brought it up, perhaps you could contact the account for UNT athletics and get his take on the subject and share that information with us. In summary, I am bored with you, this conversation, and the subject matter. Strike 3.

[Clinetort]

3 hours ago, wardly said:

I don't believe that I have "ranted" but only expressed my opinion, as have you, regarding what I consider to be a financially  irresponsible position in adding  a baseball program. Regarding softball, we evidently inherited an adequate venue for our program that initially did not require a multi dollar investment by the university. In a perfect world I would support the construction of a new softball park to support our excellent women's program.  I have never stated that I was not a baseball fan . I am just not a fan of pissing off millions of dollars just because someone thinks it would be a neat thing to have. Since you brought it up, perhaps you could contact the account for UNT athletics and get his take on the subject and share that information with us. In summary, I am bored with you, this conversation, and the subject matter. Strike 3.

Since you're the self proclaimed "financially responsible" poster, then I assume you would be against building an 80 million dollar basketball arena when we have one of the best facilities in the nation?

Edited March 3, 2022 by Clinetort

[UNTLifer]

4 minutes ago, Clinetort said:

 when we have one of the best facilities in the nation?

I love the SP, but

[Clinetort]

15 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I love the SP, but

There are over 350 Division 1 basketball programs.  I challenge you to find more than 75 arenas that are better than the Super Pit.  

Edited March 3, 2022 by Clinetort

[wardly]

43 minutes ago, Clinetort said:

Since you're the self proclaimed "financially responsible" poster, then I assume you would be against building an 80 million dollar basketball arena when we have one of the best facilities in the nation?

I would rather take the money it probably would take to build a state of the art baseball park and update the Super Pitt. I don't know that I would call it one of the best in the nation but its a good facility that needs updating. I suggested to a previous AD that we might be able to create a more intimate setting by blocking off and covering the upper seats for basketball. It's  hard to fill a 10,500 seat arena . Just ask Texas. By the by, I don't proclaim to be the only financially responsible poster. Its just that I remember when Judy Nelson won the Women's Southland Conference championship and the athletic department asked me to buy the banner {$500}because they didn't have the money. We have certainly come a long way since then but I am opposed to creating unnecessary expenses, especially at this point in time. College sports is making the transition into unchartered waters regarding compensation for players starting with football. I would think that it would not stop with just one sport. Also in the next two years the P5 programs will be renegotiating there new tv contracts and we don't know how big the table scraps will be for the G5.s. If memory serves we got a boost moving to CUSA and then it was gone. In summary, until we get a better understanding of how the new "pay for play" environment will impact our budget as well as how much tv revenue we will get I think we should sit tight. By the way, I am curious as to how you would fund a baseball program , including the cost of a ball park. I don't think the season ticket you might buy along with a dog and 2 beers at the games you will attend will get the job done.  I think Margaret Thatcher once said "socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money."

[Clinetort]

1 hour ago, wardly said:

I would rather take the money it probably would take to build a state of the art baseball park and update the Super Pitt. I don't know that I would call it one of the best in the nation but its a good facility that needs updating. I suggested to a previous AD that we might be able to create a more intimate setting by blocking off and covering the upper seats for basketball. It's  hard to fill a 10,500 seat arena . Just ask Texas. By the by, I don't proclaim to be the only financially responsible poster. Its just that I remember when Judy Nelson won the Women's Southland Conference championship and the athletic department asked me to buy the banner {$500}because they didn't have the money. We have certainly come a long way since then but I am opposed to creating unnecessary expenses, especially at this point in time. College sports is making the transition into unchartered waters regarding compensation for players starting with football. I would think that it would not stop with just one sport. Also in the next two years the P5 programs will be renegotiating there new tv contracts and we don't know how big the table scraps will be for the G5.s. If memory serves we got a boost moving to CUSA and then it was gone. In summary, until we get a better understanding of how the new "pay for play" environment will impact our budget as well as how much tv revenue we will get I think we should sit tight. By the way, I am curious as to how you would fund a baseball program , including the cost of a ball park. I don't think the season ticket you might buy along with a dog and 2 beers at the games you will attend will get the job done.  I think Margaret Thatcher once said "socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money."

The only thing that I am suggesting is that a new arena not be built until baseball is added.  Do I have the funding answers, absolutely not.  

[NT80]

9 hours ago, Coffee and TV said:

It does actually matter, and as I understand it the number of scholarship players has to remain around the same. Football has no equivalent to that so in a majority of D1 schools you'll find they have more sports offered for women to counter that differential. If you wish to add baseball to UNT you'll need to find the money to fund another sport for women as they already have softball and now they'll be 15 or so scholarships shorter. That's my interpretation of how it works at least.

NT offers 5 mens sports and 9 womens sports.  no baseball.

La Tech offers 6 mens sports (with baseball) and 8 womens sports (bowling, no swimming or golf).

UTSA offers 7 mens sports (with baseball & tennis) and 8 womens sports. 

[UNTLifer]

11 hours ago, Clinetort said:

There are over 350 Division 1 basketball programs.  I challenge you to find more than 75 arenas that are better than the Super Pit.  

By looks alone, I would agree with you, but I have asked you in the past if you are aware of the infrastructure issues that hinder any kind of major renovation.  There are a lot of good looking cars on used car lots that don't run worth a crap.

Edited March 3, 2022 by UNTLifer

[wardly]

9 hours ago, Clinetort said:

The only thing that I am suggesting is that a new arena not be built until baseball is added.  Do I have the funding answers, absolutely not.  

Lets just agree to disagree. We have a men's basketball program that is on the rise and I would support either updating the Super Pitt [if possible ]or building a new arena before starting a new baseball program without an existing  ball park from scratch.My same reasoning would put a new women's soft ball park ahead of baseball. If memory serves[ I am 79 so sometimes it may not ] UNT was required to raise 10% of the cost of our football stadium and bond the rest out. We had planned of a 36,000 seat stadium at a cost of $32 million. However it took longer that anticipated to raise the 10% and China was hosting the Olympics driving material costs sky high world wide. By the time we were able to build we had a 30,000 seat stadium at cost of $72 million. To put that in perspective, UTA just built a new basketball arena a few years ago that I think seats about 6,000 for the same $ 72 million. If I were to prioritize my wish list for bricks and sticks it would be to support our existing successful athletic programs first. Our basketball practice facility is a joke and would be first on my list, followed by a new state of the art soft ball park. We have a great soccer program so I would be supportive of their needs first. Finely, I probably will be dead and  buried before either a new basketball arena or men's ball park is constructed so my give-a-shit meter is rising as we speak. I have been supportive of UNT athletics since my freshman year of 1961 both in involvement and financially to the best of my ability. I have briefly met Wren Baker once and I told him that I had always hoped the amount of money I contributed to athletics would no longer warrant a call from the Athletic Director. He asked have I not called you and my answer was no, and you won't, and he hasn't. Now that my personal goal has been met I can die a happy fan.

[meangreen11]

22 minutes ago, wardly said:

Now that my personal goal has been met I can die a happy fan.

LOL so true my friend!

[Pavlovs Eagle]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:35 PM, Snowy said:

The rest of the funding wouldn't appear out of thin air unfortunately. J'Powell is not an alum.

This made me laugh. 😅

[Coffee and TV]

16 hours ago, NT80 said:

NT offers 5 mens sports and 9 womens sports.  no baseball.

La Tech offers 6 mens sports (with baseball) and 8 womens sports (bowling, no swimming or golf).

UTSA offers 7 mens sports (with baseball & tennis) and 8 womens sports. 

You're just listing facts but not really reaching a point here while entirely missing mine I guess. 

[NT80]

1 hour ago, Coffee and TV said:

You're just listing facts but not really reaching a point here while entirely missing mine I guess. 

I think you're missing my point about your point?  lol

You said sports must be proportional to percentage male/female of enrollment.  NT has 54% women, La Tech 48% women, UTSA 51 % women.  Not a lot of difference.   Yet, NT funds fewer mens sports, and more womens sports than both, and both are still allowed to have baseball.   

In other words, peer programs are offering/funding baseball with even fewer womens sports than NT has.  NT could certainly offer baseball without adding another womens sport.   

Edited March 3, 2022 by NT80

[aztecskin]

I moved up to Saint Louis and I've been to Chaifetz Arena and it holds 10,600 (we are at 10,500) but theirs is modern (built in the last 15-years). I love the Pit but as I tweeted, Chaifetz is nice. SLU has a similar situation where (at least from how I get to this place) you drive up and see the arena. NT should have something similar. 

Knock it down, build a Pit 3.0, name it after whoever wants to donate $20 million (looking at you, @Aldo) and let's have a good time watching Randy Travis cheer for NT from the lap of luxury instead of a makeshift table or whatever.  

[NT80]

51 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

I moved up to Saint Louis and I've been to Chaifetz Arena and it holds 10,600 (we are at 10,500) but theirs is modern (built in the last 15-years). I love the Pit but as I tweeted, Chaifetz is nice. SLU has a similar situation where (at least from how I get to this place) you drive up and see the arena. NT should have something similar. 

Knock it down, build a Pit 3.0, name it after whoever wants to donate $20 million (looking at you, @Aldo) and let's have a good time watching Randy Travis cheer for NT from the lap of luxury instead of a makeshift table or whatever.  

I like the interior look of it.  But if the seats were green and it had a center-hung scoreboard it could be the SuperPit's twin. 

It does have open-air suites above the upper sideline sections.  Do big donors really want to sit that high up, far away from the action?  I thought they liked premium courtside seats at basketball games.

Suites like this could also be done at the SP (for a lot cheaper than the price of a total new build).  Just add an elevator from the concourse up to the suite level hallway.  Price tag in 2020 dollars was $97 million.   

Edited March 4, 2022 by NT80

[UNTFan23]

Giving up on suites is giving up on major source of (new) income.

Let's say we were to add 10 suites. At $25k each that brings in $250k in guaranteed revenue every year.

Let's say each suite seats 12 individuals. You could charge $750 for each season ticket (for both MBB and WBB), that brings in another $90,000 (max).

That money could then go to help paying for your (MBB) coaching salary.

This would help offset an expectation that regular season ticket holders, single game tickets, and GA tickets don't go up as much to help pay for the increasing coaching salaries we will inevitably face with our move to the American Conference.

 

We're sitting here, talking about paying Mac his money for taking this team to a level not seen by most fans, we better be ready to open that wallet as that money to come from somewhere.

Edited March 4, 2022 by UNTFan23

[Clinetort]

On 3/3/2022 at 10:52 PM, UNTFan23 said:

Giving up on suites is giving up on major source of (new) income.

Let's say we were to add 10 suites. At $25k each that brings in $250k in guaranteed revenue every year.

Let's say each suite seats 12 individuals. You could charge $750 for each season ticket (for both MBB and WBB), that brings in another $90,000 (max).

That money could then go to help paying for your (MBB) coaching salary.

This would help offset an expectation that regular season ticket holders, single game tickets, and GA tickets don't go up as much to help pay for the increasing coaching salaries we will inevitably face with our move to the American Conference.

 

We're sitting here, talking about paying Mac his money for taking this team to a level not seen by most fans, we better be ready to open that wallet as that money to come from somewhere.

We can't even fill up the suites for football.  What makes you think you could fill up the suites for a new arena?

[Green Lantern]

6 minutes ago, Clinetort said:

We can't even fill up the suites for football.  What makes you think you could fill up the suites for a new arena?

Counterpoint: Our football program is mediocre/bad.

[UNTFan23]

11 minutes ago, Clinetort said:

We can't even fill up the suites for football.  What makes you think you could fill up the suites for a new arena?

There's a waiting list for Floor and Loge seats, so there is that.

[Clinetort]

57 minutes ago, UNTFan23 said:

There's a waiting list for Floor and Loge seats, so there is that.

We could easily duplicate the loge seats.  Wouldn't cost hardly anything and would bring in significant money.