Developing: One dead after shots fired on Fry Street

[foutsrouts]

Don't buy into the far far right bulsh that local police are "over-militarized." If anything, they often find themselves out gunned in armed confrontations. Also, very few of the shooting incidents involve veterans from the Iraq or Afghanistan wars. Defensive tactics for police have changed very little since 2001, with the biggest change being the addition of the taser to the tool box. And the taser was simply inserted into the force continuum at local departments.

If you want to know what started the heavier arming of local police departments, here is your answer. Notice how the police have to commandeer a civilian armored car to rescue officers and civilians:

 

So who even hinted that police departments are overly militarized, and I thought it was the far far left who were generally complaining about this phenomena? I believe that it was lefty Obama who recently announced a federal cutoff of military gear to local police departments. Also, do you have any proof that "very few" war veterans have been involved in police shootings, or is that simply a guess on your part? My guess would be that all of this negative stuff can somehow be connected to RV. 

[UNT90]

So who even hinted that police departments are overly militarized, and I thought it was the far far left who were generally complaining about this phenomena? I believe that it was lefty Obama who recently announced a federal cutoff of military gear to local police departments. Also, do you have any proof that "very few" war veterans have been involved in police shootings, or is that simply a guess on your part? My guess would be that all of this negative stuff can somehow be connected to RV. 

Look, there is no doubt that every bad police shooting is RV's fault. As a matter of fact, it is suspicious that the UNT PD officer's name hasn't been released. Maybe THAT was RV? One thing is for sure, if it was RV, it was a bad shooting.

Both the far right (government conspiracy) and the far left (Thug police departments who like to kill innocent civilian minoroties) think police are "over militarized." I assumed from your statement about "militarized police departments" that you may have bought into that. Glad you haven't.

After this bank robbery, police departments nationwide realized how under armed they could be and started to offer officers the opportunity to change that equation. Officers were given the option of carrying high capacity semi auto rifles instead of the normal shotgun. Some took them up on it, others didn't. The point is this was a reaction to an escalation in violence and armament by.criminals and the simple fact that no department wanted to find themselves in a 30 minute shoot out in a suburban environment. LAPD is lucky beyond belief that multiple officers and civilians weren't killed in that critical incident. 

A funny/sad story. A local PD finally ordered tasers about 12 years ago. But the administration would only let Sgts carry them, and then they had to be carried in the trunk of the Sgts' vehicles. Real effective. After a couple of years, that PD finally approved any officers that wanted to go through training to carry them on their gun belt. It was a wasted toll for 2 years because of the fear by that terrible administration on how the taser would be perceived. 

[rcade]

So who even hinted that police departments are overly militarized, and I thought it was the far far left who were generally complaining about this phenomena?

That criticism comes from the left, from libertarians like Radley Balko at the Washington Post and from far right black helicopter types. Balko writes about criminal justice and civil liberties, particularly in the context of the war on drugs.

[Censored by Laurie]

So much white guilt. Someday you may learn to love yourself.

UNT90 = Ethan Couch ?

[UNT90]

UNT90 = Ethan Couch ?

You have no idea how funny this is.

[rcade]

WFAA is reporting on video of the shooting. 

A former Dallas prosecutor who has seen it: 

 

Edited December 17, 2015 by rcade

[EagleGreen]

This is just horrible for all involved.  I assume they will find the policeman not guilty but have to review their training program.  When you are trained to pull your gun and shoot, that's what you do.  Just like a doctor trained to throw medicine at a problem.  No fault of their own, in a court of law.  

[UNTpolitico]

This is just horrible for all involved.  I assume they will find the policeman not guilty but have to review their training program.  When you are trained to pull your gun and shoot, that's what you do.  Just like a doctor trained to throw medicine at a problem.  No fault of their own, in a court of law.  

I am going to bet he's never even charged and no mention of training. He followed his training to a T its a textbook protection of life shooting case and all on video..

[Rudy]

This is just horrible for all involved.  I assume they will find the policeman not guilty but have to review their training program.  When you are trained to pull your gun and shoot, that's what you do.  Just like a doctor trained to throw medicine at a problem.  No fault of their own, in a court of law.  

Trained to just pull your gun and shoot, huh?  Really? I guess it's a good thing for the one guy I encountered that I didn't "follow my training" and I just didn't pull my gun and and shoot.

[greenit]

Look, there is no doubt that every bad police shooting is RV's fault. As a matter of fact, it is suspicious that the UNT PD officer's name hasn't been released. Maybe THAT was RV? One thing is for sure, if it was RV, it was a bad shooting.

Both the far right (government conspiracy) and the far left (Thug police departments who like to kill innocent civilian minoroties) think police are "over militarized." I assumed from your statement about "militarized police departments" that you may have bought into that. Glad you haven't.

After this bank robbery, police departments nationwide realized how under armed they could be and started to offer officers the opportunity to change that equation. Officers were given the option of carrying high capacity semi auto rifles instead of the normal shotgun. Some took them up on it, others didn't. The point is this was a reaction to an escalation in violence and armament by.criminals and the simple fact that no department wanted to find themselves in a 30 minute shoot out in a suburban environment. LAPD is lucky beyond belief that multiple officers and civilians weren't killed in that critical incident. 

A funny/sad story. A local PD finally ordered tasers about 12 years ago. But the administration would only let Sgts carry them, and then they had to be carried in the trunk of the Sgts' vehicles. Real effective. After a couple of years, that PD finally approved any officers that wanted to go through training to carry them on their gun belt. It was a wasted toll for 2 years because of the fear by that terrible administration on how the taser would be perceived. 

Really lucky one of them didn't have a hatchet. 

[UNTpolitico]

The Use-of-Force Continuum

Most law enforcement agencies have policies that guide their use of force. These policies describe a escalating series of actions an officer may take to resolve a situation. This continuum generally has many levels, and officers are instructed to respond with a level of force appropriate to the situation at hand, acknowledging that the officer may move from one part of the continuum to another in a matter of seconds.

An example of a use-of-force continuum follows:

• Officer Presence — No force is used. Considered the best way to resolve a situation.
  • The mere presence of a law enforcement officer works to deter crime or diffuse a situation.
  • Officers' attitudes are professional and nonthreatening.
• Verbalization — Force is not-physical.
  • Officers issue calm, nonthreatening commands, such as "Let me see your identification and registration."
  • Officers may increase their volume and shorten commands in an attempt to gain compliance. Short commands might include "Stop," or "Don't move."
• Empty-Hand Control — Officers use bodily force to gain control of a situation.
  • Soft technique. Officers use grabs, holds and joint locks to restrain an individual.
  • Hard technique. Officers use punches and kicks to restrain an individual.
• Less-Lethal Methods — Officers use less-lethal technologies to gain control of a situation.
  (See Deciding When and How to Use Less-Lethal Devices. )
  • Blunt impact. Officers may use a baton or projectile to immobilize a combative person.
  • Chemical. Officers may use chemical sprays or projectiles embedded with chemicals to restrain an individual (e.g., pepper spray).
  • Conducted Energy Devices (CEDs). Officers may use CEDs to immobilize an individual. CEDs discharge a high-voltage, low-amperage jolt of electricity at a distance.
• Lethal Force — Officers use lethal weapons to gain control of a situation. Should only be used if a suspect poses a serious threat to the officer or another individual.
  • Officers use deadly weapons such as firearms to stop an individual's action.

http://www.dentonrc.com/local-news/local-news-headlines/20151216-unt-police-identify-officer-in-shooting.ece

Not an expert by any means but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. The video clearly shows the office make his presence known , he then verbalizes a command 6 or 7 times. Finally given the advancing suspect within effective range with his weapon the officer was forced to escalate to lethal force. Tragic situation but the officer showed poise under pressure and let his training take over.

Edited December 17, 2015 by UNTpolitico

[UNTexas]

He brought a knife to a gun fight and charged a cop screaming shot me. Pretty simple stuff people. Whether he was crazy, on drugs, or suicidal is meaningless now. He got exactly what he wanted. Luckily no innocent people were harmed by this lunatic. God bless the officer for his service and I hope he's ok mentally after this guy's senseless rampage around Fry Street. 

It's easy for people to armchair qb cops but not here with the totality of circumstances. 

Edited December 17, 2015 by UNTexas

[TheWestie]

Observation from watching the video: that was not an axe or a hatchet. It was a tactical tomahawk. 

 

[UNT90]

Really lucky one of them didn't have a hatchet. 

Try to follow along. I know it's hard for you.

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

Just watched the video. Tough to watch. Classic suicide by cop. Some have said "he didn't raise the hatchet" so he wasn't an imminent threat. By the time he raises his hatchet, it could be too late. You don't take those chances with an armed person acting irractically and charging you despite several warnings. 

Edited December 17, 2015 by ChristopherRyanWilkes

[UNT90]

Just watched the video. Tough to watch. Classic suicide by cop. Some have said "he didn't raise the hatchet" so he wasn't an imminent threat. By the time he raises his hatches, it could be too late. You don't take those chances with an armed person acting irractically and charging you despite several warnings. 

He could also uppercut the ax and do some serious damage. 

More than one way to strike.

Just a tragedy for all involved. Blood results should be interesting. 

[Harry]

Texas authorities released dashcam video Wednesday showing the fatal shooting of a University of North Texas student by a campus police officer. 

Ryan McMillan, 21, was shot and killed by UNT Police Cpl. Stephen Bean early Sunday after Bean responded to a report that McMillan was smashing car windows with an ax in a parking garage near the campus in Denton. 

The video consists of two segments that are a total of 47 seconds long and show three separate angles. It shows Bean pulling up to the scene to confront McMillan, who was standing on a street corner with two other people. McMillan eventually steps off the curb and crosses in front of Bean's patrol car, holding the ax in his right hand.

Bean is heard repeatedly telling McMillan to "back away" as the officer draws his gun. McMillan ignores the warnings and is heard saying "shoot me" repeatedly as he walks told Bean. Eventually, the officer fires three shots. The Dallas Morning News estimated the time between Bean's arrival on scene and the shooting to be approximately 10 seconds.

Read more:  http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/17/dashcam-video-university-north-texas-student-shooting-by-campus-cop-released/

[greenit]

So the kid didn't kill the other two people he was talking to when the officer arrived?  He didn't make verbal threats to the officer?  He didn't raise the weapon in a threatening manner?  The officer exited his car with gun drawn instead of his taser?  The kid was shot within 10 seconds from exiting the cruiser?

I am not saying the kid wasn't acting irrationally. Sorry, but I expect better outcomes than this.  This result seems no different than what would happen if ordinary citizens carrying a firearm rolled up on the scene. I expect more from trained experts. 

Otherwise, let's just spend that training budget on extra ammo. 

[UNT90]

So the kid didn't kill the other two people he was talking to when the officer arrived?  He didn't make verbal threats to the officer?  He didn't raise the weapon in a threatening manner?  The officer exited his car with gun drawn instead of his taser?  The kid was shot within 10 seconds from exiting the cruiser?

I am not saying the kid wasn't acting irrationally. Sorry, but I expect better outcomes than this.  This result seems no different than what would happen if ordinary citizens carrying a firearm rolled up on the scene. I expect more from trained experts. 

Otherwise, let's just spend that training budget on extra ammo. 

Put on a badge and go do the job. I mean, you are so smart, right?

I got $300 that you would have crapped your pants and ran the other way in that situation: 

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

So the kid didn't kill the other two people he was talking to when the officer arrived?  He didn't make verbal threats to the officer?  He didn't raise the weapon in a threatening manner?  The officer exited his car with gun drawn instead of his taser?  The kid was shot within 10 seconds from exiting the cruiser?

I am not saying the kid wasn't acting irrationally. Sorry, but I expect better outcomes than this.  This result seems no different than what would happen if ordinary citizens carrying a firearm rolled up on the scene. I expect more from trained experts. 

Otherwise, let's just spend that training budget on extra ammo. 

What's more likely to get someone to stop, a gun or a taser? Not to mention like someone mentioned earlier certain types of drugs will make tasers virtually ineffective. As you can see in the video, the first two shots didn't even bring him down. It's a sad, terrible situation but I try to be very objective when looking at these things. This is a classic suicide by cop and honestly it is very sad that he had to drag a young police officer into it. As you can see it looks like he was just talking to a young man but then starts to charge the police officer. His objective was to be gunned down and he was going to do whatever it took to meet that objective at that moment. 

[Harry]

"How many words does it take to tell someone they saved your life?" she said of the officer's response. "Like your life ... I'm here today because of that officer."

A cross has been placed at the site for McMillan. It's a reminder for many of what happened, even for those trying to forget.

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local/denton-county/2015/12/16/denton-pair-describe-unt-ax-attack/77464860/

 

Edited December 17, 2015 by Harry

[EagleGreen]

So the kid didn't kill the other two people he was talking to when the officer arrived?  He didn't make verbal threats to the officer?  He didn't raise the weapon in a threatening manner?  The officer exited his car with gun drawn instead of his taser?  The kid was shot within 10 seconds from exiting the cruiser?

I am not saying the kid wasn't acting irrationally. Sorry, but I expect better outcomes than this.  This result seems no different than what would happen if ordinary citizens carrying a firearm rolled up on the scene. I expect more from trained experts. 

Otherwise, let's just spend that training budget on extra ammo. 

The kid is a college student but, of course, the cop doesn't know this when he arrives.  His report was likely that a crazy guy, likely amped up on alcohol or drugs, is smashing cars with an axe.  The cops perception of the person before he arrives is likely one of a raging maniac.  I think that played into his quick response.

The "beef", it seems, from armchairs like us is "how could this have been handled better so that a death did not occur?"  You can't take back death.  

You can't really control the reporting from others (maniac with axe or drunk student with axe) so it comes down to the officers response.  In this case the officer responded in a likely legal "Chicago" or "Dallas" PD response.  In other words, just like many cops here have described, "Axe man advanced on the cop, cop deserves to go home to loving family, cop shot axe man, textbook response, sad for all involved, kid shouldn't have done that."  

I think what many are wanting to know is "why does an UNT cop not display a "university cop" response?  Why does he shoot a "young person" who is not attacking others with the axe, just cars, who is displaying textbook signs of mental issues with desired suicide...within 10 seconds?  There appears to be several cops on the scene from the video which makes it even more trivial why the response was so quick.  Just like the "21 ft. rule", there is training to deal with people, especially mentally deranged young people in college, with and without lethal weapons.  The fact that the guy is holding a lethal weapon doesn't mean the cop should use lethal force....unless you look at it from a DPD or CPD perspective.  Man with axe, walking towards cop, cop shoots.  

As I said, this is horrible for all involved and scary for students at the U.  The big problem is you can't take death back.

 

 

[oldguystudent]

I can't pass judgment on this.  On the one hand, the kid is definitely not charging at the officer full force with hatchet/axe raised.  On the other hand, the officer has his gun drawn, and the kid isn't stopping his forward progress at all.  I just don't know.  I do know that even in my most inebriated state, I see that gun, I'm stopping.  Immediately.  My best guess on this is that the kid got mickey'd at the bar and/or took something voluntarily that just put him completely out of his mind.  

This definitely isn't a case of a cop shooting an unarmed suspect in the back while he's trying to escape.  This is somewhere in the middle between that and full blown attack.  Were I the officer, I'd definitely see my adrenaline meter going to 11.  

[greenit]

Put on a badge and go do the job. I mean, you are so smart, right?

I got $300 that you would have crapped your pants and ran the other way in that situation: 

Funny response considering the source. Ok, I'll play  Why don't you be the AD?

No thank you. I have no desire to be a cop. And as others around here have repeated ad nauseum, I don't have to be a cop to know that I don't agree with the results or the methods.  

[UNT90]

Funny response considering the source. Ok, I'll play  Why don't you be the AD?

No thank you. I have no desire to be a cop. And as others around here have repeated ad nauseum, I don't have to be a cop to know that I don't agree with the results or the methods.  

You will never agree with the results or methods. Thank god your opinion counts for very little.

The kid is a college student but, of course, the cop doesn't know this when he arrives.  His report was likely that a crazy guy, likely amped up on alcohol or drugs, is smashing cars with an axe.  The cops perception of the person before he arrives is likely one of a raging maniac.  I think that played into his quick response.

The "beef", it seems, from armchairs like us is "how could this have been handled better so that a death did not occur?"  You can't take back death.  

You can't really control the reporting from others (maniac with axe or drunk student with axe) so it comes down to the officers response.  In this case the officer responded in a likely legal "Chicago" or "Dallas" PD response.  In other words, just like many cops here have described, "Axe man advanced on the cop, cop deserves to go home to loving family, cop shot axe man, textbook response, sad for all involved, kid shouldn't have done that."  

I think what many are wanting to know is "why does an UNT cop not display a "university cop" response?  Why does he shoot a "young person" who is not attacking others with the axe, just cars, who is displaying textbook signs of mental issues with desired suicide...within 10 seconds?  There appears to be several cops on the scene from the video which makes it even more trivial why the response was so quick.  Just like the "21 ft. rule", there is training to deal with people, especially mentally deranged young people in college, with and without lethal weapons.  The fact that the guy is holding a lethal weapon doesn't mean the cop should use lethal force....unless you look at it from a DPD or CPD perspective.  Man with axe, walking towards cop, cop shoots.  

As I said, this is horrible for all involved and scary for students at the U.  The big problem is you can't take death back.

 

 

You can't take the death back, just like you can't take the officer's death back if that guy suddenly decided to attack in under 1/8 of a second. And that was a real possibility considering  the fact he was telling the officer to shoot him. 

No mental health training is applicable when the suspect has a deadly weapon and is advancing against orders. That, sadly, is a force situation. Period. You don't try feel good methods in that situation for a very good reason: you would have a very good chance of ending up dead. 

Sometimes decisions need to be made in seconds. In cases like this, if you hesitate, you very well may end up dead.

Seemingly harmless situations change in an instant. Here is just one video that's readily available on you tube that shows how quickly force can escalate. From a handcuffed, sitting down, controlled arrested to being a violent attacker with the upper hand in less than 1/16th of a second: