Which North Texas public universities rank among the state and nation&

[oldguystudent]

Agreed. I have spent some time on campus there and it is DEAD. Everyone seems to walk alone and I rarely saw anyone just hanging out.

They do have an on campus "pub" that limits you to two beers and is in the middle of what appears to be cafeteria seating.

[Harry]

This positioning of UNT is what causes much of the consternation of UNT90 and the like...

We are in a good spot here in DFW because we offer a REAL college experience unlike what you can achieve at UTD and UTA etc. We are not at the top of the list but quite respectable.

We are outstanding from a diversity and cost perspective when compared to the privys at TCU and SMU where it can cost 50-60K a year to attend...unless you just have money to burn or are off the charts academically and get a scholarship how can you afford that or why? Does a kid from a hard working average family fit in at those places?

UNT has addressed facilities in a big way. People used to call us a commuter school but that was because we had no dorms! That has/is changing. We have a jewel of a football stadium that all of us are proud of and will complete a 100 million+ new student union this Fall.

Success in athletics is the ONE piece to this puzzle that remains a mystery to many of us. We have increased the salaries of coaches which should pay dividends. We have moved into a better conference in C-USA. But the truth of the matter is in the major revenue sports, we have underperformed. In 10 years we had one winning season (2013) in football. That has got to change. We have never consistently won in athletics. It makes you wonder what could happen IF we did?

I'll tell you what will happen... the differentiation of where we are to some of these other Northern Texas colleges would widen even more. You would develop a bigger sense of pride among the students, faculty and alumni...applications would increase dramatically. The local community would start to give us a second look and provide more support. More and more outstanding students would choose to attend here. The media would have to finally provide us with more coverage. The list goes on and on.

I hope and pray that Dr. Smatresk and the BOR understand this and will do everything in their power to support athletics. It is a HUGE differentiation between us and the other public schools in this region.

We have long been recognized as an outstanding music school. But there are other terrific programs here as well. Winning Athletics is a GREAT way to advertise and build the reputation of these other programs.

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

This positioning of UNT is what causes much of the consternation of UNT90 and the like...

We are in a good spot here in DFW because we offer a REAL college experience unlike what you can achieve at UTD and UTA etc. We are not at the top of the list but quite respectable.

We are outstanding from a diversity and cost perspective when compared to the privys at TCU and SMU where it can cost 50-60K a year to attend...unless you just have money to burn or are off the charts academically and get a scholarship how can you afford that or why? Does a kid from a hard working average family fit in at those places?

UNT has addressed facilities in a big way. People used to call us a commuter school but that was because we had no dorms! That has/is changing. We have a jewel of a football stadium that all of us are proud of and will complete a 100 million+ new student union this Fall.

Success in athletics is the ONE piece to this puzzle that remains a mystery to many of us. We have increased the salaries of coaches which should pay dividends. We have moved into a better conference in C-USA. But the truth of the matter is in the major revenue sports, we have underperformed. In 10 years we had one winning season (2013) in football. That has got to change. We have never consistently won in athletics. It makes you wonder what could happen IF we did?

I'll tell you what will happen... the differentiation of where we are to some of these other Northern Texas colleges would widen even more. You would develop a bigger sense of pride among the students, faculty and alumni...applications would increase dramatically. The local community would start to give us a second look and provide more support. More and more outstanding students would choose to attend here. The media would have to finally provide us with more coverage. The list goes on and on.

I hope and pray that Dr. Smatresk and the BOR understand this and will do everything in their power to support athletics. It is a HUGE differentiation between us and the other public schools in this region.

We have long been recognized as an outstanding music school. But there are other terrific programs here as well. Winning Athletics is a GREAT way to advertise and build the reputation of these other programs.

I'm going to change the wording on this a little bit and start an article called "UNT website founder speaks out against Athletic Director."

[UNT90]

This positioning of UNT is what causes much of the consternation of UNT90 and the like...

We are in a good spot here in DFW because we offer a REAL college experience unlike what you can achieve at UTD and UTA etc. We are not at the top of the list but quite respectable.

We are outstanding from a diversity and cost perspective when compared to the privys at TCU and SMU where it can cost 50-60K a year to attend...unless you just have money to burn or are off the charts academically and get a scholarship how can you afford that or why? Does a kid from a hard working average family fit in at those places?

UNT has addressed facilities in a big way. People used to call us a commuter school but that was because we had no dorms! That has/is changing. We have a jewel of a football stadium that all of us are proud of and will complete a 100 million+ new student union this Fall.

Success in athletics is the ONE piece to this puzzle that remains a mystery to many of us. We have increased the salaries of coaches which should pay dividends. We have moved into a better conference in C-USA. But the truth of the matter is in the major revenue sports, we have underperformed. In 10 years we had one winning season (2013) in football. That has got to change. We have never consistently won in athletics. It makes you wonder what could happen IF we did?

I'll tell you what will happen... the differentiation of where we are to some of these other Northern Texas colleges would widen even more. You would develop a bigger sense of pride among the students, faculty and alumni...applications would increase dramatically. The local community would start to give us a second look and provide more support. More and more outstanding students would choose to attend here. The media would have to finally provide us with more coverage. The list goes on and on.

I hope and pray that Dr. Smatresk and the BOR understand this and will do everything in their power to support athletics. It is a HUGE differentiation between us and the other public schools in this region.

We have long been recognized as an outstanding music school. But there are other terrific programs here as well. Winning Athletics is a GREAT way to advertise and build the reputation of these other programs.

Great post.

[UNTDoubleAlum]

This positioning of UNT is what causes much of the consternation of UNT90 and the like...

We are in a good spot here in DFW because we offer a REAL college experience unlike what you can achieve at UTD and UTA etc. We are not at the top of the list but quite respectable.

We are outstanding from a diversity and cost perspective when compared to the privys at TCU and SMU where it can cost 50-60K a year to attend...unless you just have money to burn or are off the charts academically and get a scholarship how can you afford that or why? Does a kid from a hard working average family fit in at those places?

UNT has addressed facilities in a big way. People used to call us a commuter school but that was because we had no dorms! That has/is changing. We have a jewel of a football stadium that all of us are proud of and will complete a 100 million+ new student union this Fall.

Success in athletics is the ONE piece to this puzzle that remains a mystery to many of us. We have increased the salaries of coaches which should pay dividends. We have moved into a better conference in C-USA. But the truth of the matter is in the major revenue sports, we have underperformed. In 10 years we had one winning season (2013) in football. That has got to change. We have never consistently won in athletics. It makes you wonder what could happen IF we did?

I'll tell you what will happen... the differentiation of where we are to some of these other Northern Texas colleges would widen even more. You would develop a bigger sense of pride among the students, faculty and alumni...applications would increase dramatically. The local community would start to give us a second look and provide more support. More and more outstanding students would choose to attend here. The media would have to finally provide us with more coverage. The list goes on and on.

I hope and pray that Dr. Smatresk and the BOR understand this and will do everything in their power to support athletics. It is a HUGE differentiation between us and the other public schools in this region.

We have long been recognized as an outstanding music school. But there are other terrific programs here as well. Winning Athletics is a GREAT way to advertise and build the reputation of these other programs.

Ugh, thanks Harry.

Before reading that I was just averagely depressed about living 6 hours away from UNT/Denton. Now I'm going to need depression medicine.....

[Coffee and TV]

We have never consistently won in athletics. It makes you wonder what could happen IF we did?

UCF.

We're not as much of a destination school as Central Florida, but a lot of the same elements are there.

[meangreendork]

This positioning of UNT is what causes much of the consternation of UNT90 and the like...

We are in a good spot here in DFW because we offer a REAL college experience unlike what you can achieve at UTD and UTA etc. We are not at the top of the list but quite respectable.

We are outstanding from a diversity and cost perspective when compared to the privys at TCU and SMU where it can cost 50-60K a year to attend...unless you just have money to burn or are off the charts academically and get a scholarship how can you afford that or why? Does a kid from a hard working average family fit in at those places?

UNT has addressed facilities in a big way. People used to call us a commuter school but that was because we had no dorms! That has/is changing. We have a jewel of a football stadium that all of us are proud of and will complete a 100 million+ new student union this Fall.

Success in athletics is the ONE piece to this puzzle that remains a mystery to many of us. We have increased the salaries of coaches which should pay dividends. We have moved into a better conference in C-USA. But the truth of the matter is in the major revenue sports, we have underperformed. In 10 years we had one winning season (2013) in football. That has got to change. We have never consistently won in athletics. It makes you wonder what could happen IF we did?

I'll tell you what will happen... the differentiation of where we are to some of these other Northern Texas colleges would widen even more. You would develop a bigger sense of pride among the students, faculty and alumni...applications would increase dramatically. The local community would start to give us a second look and provide more support. More and more outstanding students would choose to attend here. The media would have to finally provide us with more coverage. The list goes on and on.

I hope and pray that Dr. Smatresk and the BOR understand this and will do everything in their power to support athletics. It is a HUGE differentiation between us and the other public schools in this region.

We have long been recognized as an outstanding music school. But there are other terrific programs here as well. Winning Athletics is a GREAT way to advertise and build the reputation of these other programs.

Brilliant post. I think that among education institutions in our region, UNT is the tops overall. Lower cost than the private universities, competitive with the public universities, wider degree options, a big campus that doesn't really feel it tied with a great campus culture, great location. The one weak point is athletics, but even that doesn't matter to every student.

They do have an on campus "pub" that limits you to two beers and is in the middle of what appears to be cafeteria seating.

Their union is a strange beast, indeed. It seems like it's also the one place on the whole campus you can find more than 4 students together that isn't a classroom. When I visited it (I had friends that all recently graduated from UTD), it didn't feel like any campus I've visited before. Nothing like TxState, UT, A&M, SMU, and of course, our own UNT. It had little shades like it was trying to get there, but the campus feels less like a university and more like a business park or community college.

Worse yet, there aren't really any places near the campus for a culture to develop, which also really hampers that school.

[Coffee and TV]

Their union is a strange beast, indeed. It seems like it's also the one place on the whole campus you can find more than 4 students together that isn't a classroom. When I visited it (I had friends that all recently graduated from UTD), it didn't feel like any campus I've visited before. Nothing like TxState, UT, A&M, SMU, and of course, our own UNT. It had little shades like it was trying to get there, but the campus feels less like a university and more like a business park or community college.

Worse yet, there aren't really any places near the campus for a culture to develop, which also really hampers that school.

I think considering UTD's beginnings and its current student body makeup, they just don't go after the same type of students you'd find at UNT.

[ColoradoEagle]

Attended UTD for a semester, and it felt like a very expensive, challenging community college. Good education, but I can't personally think of a school I'd rather attend less than UTD.

[GreenMachine]

I think considering UTD's beginnings and its current student body makeup, they just don't go after the same type of students you'd find at UNT.

they go after smart ones?

[GreenMachine]

No, they go after students going to college solely for professional aspirations. It's a very modern college as far as their goals and opportunities go. It's just a different type of school.

kidding, I took a few grad classes there and hated every bit of it. Edited February 16, 2015 by GreenMachine

[foutsrouts]

kidding, I took a few grad classes there and hated every bit of it.

I did the same thing at UTA back in the 90's, and found my experience there to be a bit on the depressing side.

[meangreendork]

No, they go after students going to college solely for professional aspirations. It's a very modern college as far as their goals and opportunities go. It's just a different type of school.

That's very true. Many of the folks that go there only go there for the sake of class, but then go elsewhere for their social lives. It is very much the sort of school for the classic "commuter" student mindset.

[oldguystudent]

No, they go after students going to college solely for professional aspirations. It's a very modern college as far as their goals and opportunities go. It's just a different type of school.

I don't think it's a good thing. I don't support it. But the realities of the stakes and costs of a college education have really made it something that the smart ones don't f around with. The days of wiling away lazy afternoons under an oak tree on the quad with a covert bottle of delicious beverage and an English major coed without substantial consequence have...wait for it...passed us by.

I'm fortunate enough to be so old as to have enjoyed that life and gotten away with it. Don't think my kid will be so lucky.

[Green Mean]

I don't work too far from UTD and compared to what they used to be they've made a lot of strides in adding several new and nice buildings as well as building some pretty big dorms there. While historically they've gone after a certain type of student I believe that is changing slowly but surely.

[UNT90]

I don't work too far from UTD and compared to what they used to be they've made a lot of strides in adding several new and nice buildings as well as building some pretty big dorms there. While historically they've gone after a certain type of student I believe that is changing slowly but surely.

Same thing for UTA. They have added a bunch of on campus housing recently and have worked to improve the gateway to the university.

We really shouldn't be throwing stones here. Where we are still a computer school is in the way just about all of our alumni view UNT. Just a path to a degree and then gone for therest of their lives.

[GreenMachine]

Same thing for UTA. They have added a bunch of on campus housing recently and have worked to improve the gateway to the university.

We really shouldn't be throwing stones here. Where we are still a computer school is in the way just about all of our alumni view UNT. Just a path to a degree and then gone for therest of their lives.

Computer school? I thought we were a music school.

[UNT90]

Computer school? I thought we were a music school.

Computer, commuter... Same thing if you think about it.

[meangreendork]

Added housing doesn't change the facts.

It helps, but both UTA and UTD are a long way from having the same sort of campus vibe that UNT, TCU, SMU, and even TWU have. I can't speak for UTA since I haven't been there in ages. I can speak for UTD since I was there not more than a year ago, during fall, spring and summer terms. It's quiet and dead at UTD unless you're in the union. Not a lot of foot traffic, not a lot of student groups doing recruiting or running events. It feels like a business park. It doesn't feel like a university campus.

I guess the best thing to say is "Visit UNT on a fall morning. Visit UTD on a fall morning. It's two different atmospheres." One feels like a community school, the other one feels like a real university.

[untjim1995]

The question really is how much of a value do they want to put on winning in revenue sports? If it is waht it has been, then music and arts and low tuition will continue to keep us in the same situation--low endowment, disconnected alumni base, and almost zero school pride. The recent decade has seen a lot of improvement in facilities and pay, but the stadium has basically been paid for on the backs of student fees and the pay increases fit with the extra revenues that come from being in a better league (CUSA vs SBC) and higher enrollments.

This is what my dream scenario would be from Neal Smaestrek and the BOR. Smaestrek goes to them and says, "We have to make athletics the number one priority outside of academics, just like it was in Vegas. We need to go out and demand a winner, pay more for better coaches, reward winning with monetary increases (not with large extension of years), and most importantly, buy out mistakes when we realize that winning isn't happening here. In other words, the days of letting Vic Trilli and Todd Dodge get 4 years to coach because we will only buyout one year of a contract are over. We either do it right or I let the alumni and students know that we don't want to make this the priority I think it needs to be." And then the BOR says, in agreement, "Yes, Neal, we want this, too. We are allocating $5 million dollars toward helping this happen right now. Buyout what you need, hire who you want, schedule better for the two main revenue sports, etc...Starting today, we are telling our UNT community that we are making this financial commitment ABOVE the current budget to try and make this thing into something its never been asked to do--become a sustainable winner that will not accept losing easily anymore."

And then the dream ends as the BOR laughs off such a request and the DRC and NT Daily get filled with angry letters to the editor and columns dedicated to keeping us as a university focused on music and fine arts and low cost higher education. Smaestrek leaves to go to a P5 school with endless resources and we hire the college of music director as the next university president who immediately talks about how we spend too much on athletics, that Apogee is really just a great venue for the Green Brigade and that we would be much better off if we go back down to FCS and join the new SLC, with our old rivals like ACU, Lamar, and Nicholls State, all of who we already play here in Denton anyways...

[NM Green]

No give up allowed. Sprinkles are for winners...

GMG

[greenit]

Do not go quietly into that good night.

[oldguystudent]

Do not go quietly into that good night.

Can I come loudly in the morning?

[Cerebus]

Can I come loudly in the morning?

At your age? Probably not.

[Christopher Walker]

Smaestrek leaves to go to a P5 school with endless resources and we hire the college of music director as the next university president who immediately talks about how we spend too much on athletics, that Apogee is really just a great venue for the Green Brigade and that we would be much better off if we go back down to FCS and join the new SLC, with our old rivals like ACU, Lamar, and Nicholls State, all of who we already play here in Denton anyways...

Your misplaced disdain aside, Dean Scott would make a terrible university president.

By the way, why is it that so many on here have such a hard on for hating aspects of our university that truly excel at what they do and bring vast amounts of notoriety without being allocated much more than their fellow colleges budget-wise??