20-Win Seasons

BillySee58 · February 11, 2023

9 hours ago, emmitt01 said:

FAU was ranked THIS year, and we were toe to toe with them in both games we played (and should have beaten them at our house if not for the worst officiating I have seen in years).

You mentioned Courtney Lee at WKU. What if I told you he was rated lower than Tylor Perry coming out of high school?

https://247sports.com/Player/Tylor-Perry-46042160/

https://247sports.com/Player/Courtney-Lee-67740/high-school-119217/

I think we get so wrapped up in ratings and wishing for that “big splash” signing that we forget basketball is about far more than taking a talented individual and plugging them into an established system.

I think you are getting wrapped up in thinking that we are saying it has to be a big splash at the time of signing. The point is that getting a guy that actually ends up on NBA draft boards is what It usually takes to push top Mid Majors over that edge from good Mid Major to actual ranked/Sweet 16 caliber. Regardless of where that player is out of High School. Mccasland is a great coach. Not exactly a controversial statement to think he could push us to a higher level with a higher-end talent than what he has previously worked with.

Edited February 11, 2023 by BillySee58

greenminer · February 12, 2023

3 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

None of the players Billy listed were top rated recruits outside of maybe Jameer Nelson. West was overshadowed by a classmate, Hayward was a 2 star recruit who grew 8 inches around his senior year, Courtney Lee had 2 total offers and was rated lower than Matthew Stone, Fred VanVleet was a 2 star recruit with just a few offers, and I don't believe Kyle Korver was some top recruit either. I hate to say all those coaches got lucky because they didn't, they scouted their systems and coached the guys up. Most of those guys were averaging single digits as freshmen. They were not the Kentucky level recruit hitting the ground running. They were coached up.

Plot twist: some of them might have been underrated/misevaluated.

This has gotten too caught up in the “how”, and I’ll take some flack for saying “signs”. call it rankings, ratings, coaching up.however we get there…that’s what we haven’t had and that’s what would help us.

GMG_Dallas · February 12, 2023

35 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Plot twist: some of them might have been underrated/misevaluated.

This has gotten too caught up in the “how”, and I’ll take some flack for saying “signs”. call it rankings, ratings, coaching up.however we get there…that’s what we haven’t had and that’s what would help us.

You just said in a post a bit ago "What about any "system" guys that are closer to Kentucky talent than Idaho talent?" If we are signing guys that are Kentucky talent, then they aren't being "underrated/misevaluated" and it would require winning huge recruiting battles as opposed to getting under the radar guys like all of those other mid-majors did. Grant has been getting those under the radar guys which is why we're here. Now it's up to the players to execute on the court.

The funny thing is, out of the programs Billy mentioned (St John's, Butler, Creighton, WKU), St John's never made it past the 2nd round with Nelson/West, Creighton never made it past the second round with Korver, and WKU had the luxury of playing a 13 seed in the second round also coming off a first round upset. Had we played Winthrop instead of Villanova, we'd probably have made the Sweet 16. Luck of the draw, sometimes. Then there's Butler who had two incredible runs, the second which came without Hayward.

This UNT squad is good enough to make a sweet sixteen run. Just have to get out of conference. No room for error in this conference. Can't lose 3 out of our last 4 like Tennessee just did and still be a lock to make the big dance. There's also no reason we can't have a run like St Peter's did last year if we get in. Who was their star future NBA talent, by the way?

BillySee58 · February 12, 2023

22 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

You just said in a post a bit ago "What about any "system" guys that are closer to Kentucky talent than Idaho talent?" If we are signing guys that are Kentucky talent, then they aren't being "underrated/misevaluated" and it would require winning huge recruiting battles as opposed to getting under the radar guys like all of those other mid-majors did. Grant has been getting those under the radar guys which is why we're here. Now it's up to the players to execute on the court.

The funny thing is, out of the programs Billy mentioned (St John's, Butler, Creighton, WKU), St John's never made it past the 2nd round with Nelson/West, Creighton never made it past the second round with Korver, and WKU had the luxury of playing a 13 seed in the second round also coming off a first round upset. Had we played Winthrop instead of Villanova, we'd probably have made the Sweet 16. Luck of the draw, sometimes. Then there's Butler who had two incredible runs, the second which came without Hayward.

This UNT squad is good enough to make a sweet sixteen run. Just have to get out of conference. No room for error in this conference. Can't lose 3 out of our last 4 like Tennessee just did and still be a lock to make the big dance. There's also no reason we can't have a run like St Peter's did last year if we get in. Who was their star future NBA talent, by the way?

St. Joseph’s, not St. John’s. And they did make it past the 2nd round with West and Nelson. They made it to the Elite 8.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/saint-josephs/men/2004.html

Again, we can play the outlier game and the say this team did this and that team did that, the point is “imagine what Grant could do if had even more talent to work with?” It’s really not any deeper than that. Not saying he can’t make the Sweet 16 with the talent level he has or he can’t have success in the AAC, or anything else.

ADLER · February 12, 2023

On 2/9/2023 at 10:02 PM, BillySee58 said:

We have now reached 20 wins for the 13th time in school history. Mccasland has 5 of them. Jones has 5 and Blakeley has the other 3.

This is also just the 8th time in school history that we have reached 20 in the regular season. 4 of those belong to Mccasland.

He has certainly built a Hall of Fame resume.

Grant's only season to not get 20 wins was 2020 at 18 wins, but we had won the conference outright, were top seed, and were not able to play the CUSA tournament due to covid lockdown. He probably would have won at least 3 and advanced to the final, or further, and we would have at least been guaranteed a NIT bid if we didn't make the big dance. I hate to imply this wasn't a 20 win season when we stopped at 18 and the next (4 or 5?) games could not be played.

In his previous stop, Grant won 20 games in his only season at Arkansas St in 2017.

So yes, he's good, he's that good.

CMJ · February 12, 2023

2 hours ago, ADLER said:

Grant's only season to not get 20 wins was 2020 at 18 wins, but we had won the conference outright, were top seed, and were not able to play the CUSA tournament due to covid lockdown. He probably would have won at least 3 and advanced to the final, or further, and we would have at least been guaranteed a NIT bid if we didn't make the big dance. I hate to imply this wasn't a 20 win season when we stopped at 18 and the next (4 or 5?) games could not be played.

In his previous stop, Grant won 20 games in his only season at Arkansas St in 2017.

So yes, he's good, he's that good.

You're combing two seasons.

The covid shortened season was the previous year (20-12, winner of regular season CUSA). Our 18-10 season included our CUSA Tournament title and the win over Purdue. That season was also cut slightly short because of games mid year that were called off, so we may have hit 20 wins regardless then as well.

Still, considering the NCAA Tournament win, that is arguably the best season in our history.

Edited February 12, 2023 by CMJ

GMG_Dallas · February 12, 2023

9 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

St. Joseph’s, not St. John’s. And they did make it past the 2nd round with West and Nelson. They made it to the Elite 8.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/saint-josephs/men/2004.html

Again, we can play the outlier game and the say this team did this and that team did that, the point is “imagine what Grant could do if had even more talent to work with?” It’s really not any deeper than that. Not saying he can’t make the Sweet 16 with the talent level he has or he can’t have success in the AAC, or anything else.

Yes my bad. I don't know why I thought of st John in that moment.

Guess I didn't see the point of the original comment. Why take a shot at Grant's recruiting when it's actually been great. Not necessarily highly touted guys but they've been gotten it done. What happens in March is often about runs and lucky draws. Again, if we play Winthrop instead of Villanova, we likely make the Sweet 16 and this conversation never happens. The talent was there, the favorable draw wasn't.

BillySee58 · February 12, 2023

31 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Why take a shot at Grant's recruiting when it's actually been great.

To answer this question, because it’s not a shot. It’s a fact that we haven’t seen Grant get to work with an NBA player on the roster. Saying it’s easy to see how a guy who has maximized every team’s success could take an NBA talent and reach the Top 25/Sweet 16 isn’t controversial. It’s not mutually exclusive to say an NBA talent would probably would get us to that level, and that we could still get there without it. Also not mutually exclusive to say he hasn’t gotten an NBA talent and he still has recruited well.

I think your and Emmitt’s responses seem to imply these notions are in direct opposition, but they are not.

GrandGreen · February 13, 2023

On 2/10/2023 at 10:04 PM, Wag Tag said:

First is they should have their on weight room and rehab facility at the coliseum!

Why?

Seems to me a big waste of money to provide every team with separate workout and rehab facilities.

Economies of scale would dictate much better facilities on a combined basis. No, not every player is going to get access to the workout area at their chosen time, but that also happens for court/stadium use.

Wag Tag · February 13, 2023

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Why?

Seems to me a big waste of money to provide every team with separate workout and rehab facilities.

Economies of scale would dictate much better facilities on a combined basis. No, not every player is going to get access to the workout area at their chosen time, but that also happens for court/stadium use.

It’s really pretty simple, space. We have 1 wt with 5,000 sq ft for all teams. That is not big enough for just football at most schools. It has been mentioned to me that when they practice it would be nice to have a wt and rehab area that they could incorporate at the same time in The same area . Also because of ht these players have special requirements. You would be shocked to see where the players get taped, it is a closet! You would not believe all the crap and junk stored in large spaces in Super Pit. They also have classrooms. Three years ago an attempt was made to get something done for the team but the school would not give up the space. I always hear the master, but I believe it has been on the drawing board for maybe 8-10 years? This could be an upgrade for very little money in the scope of proposed facilities!

Edited February 13, 2023 by Wag Tag

GrandGreen · February 13, 2023

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

It’s really pretty simple, space. We have 1 wt with 5,000 sq ft for all teams. That is not big enough for just football at most schools. It has been mentioned to me that when they practice it would be nice to have a wt and rehab area that they could incorporate at the same time in The same area . Also because of ht these players have special requirements. You would be shocked to see where the players get taped, it is a closet! You would not believe all the crap and junk stored in large spaces in Super Pit. They also have classrooms. Three years ago an attempt was made to get something done for the team but the school would not give up the space. I always hear the master, but I believe it has been on the drawing board for maybe 8-10 years? This could be an upgrade for very little money in the scope of proposed facilities!

My point was that each team doesn't need separate facilities.

Wag Tag · February 14, 2023

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

My point was that each team doesn't need separate facilities.

Football and Basketball does!

UNTLifer · February 14, 2023

I haven't been in the bowels of the SP in decades, but there used to be a large room dedicated to gymnastics near the racquetball courts. I never understood that since North Texas has never had a gymnastics program. Is that room still dedicated for that or has it been repurposed? I would think that there is enough unused space down there to really improve the basketball facilities.

GMG_Dallas · February 14, 2023

If we cleared out all the gray and black jerseys and gear, we could probably free up enough space for basketball to have an improved weight room. Bonus is we'd win more games by no longer playing in the "trash bags."

Edited February 14, 2023 by GMG_Dallas

2020 Sucks · February 15, 2023

On 2/12/2023 at 5:46 AM, ADLER said:

Grant's only season to not get 20 wins was 2020 at 18 wins, but we had won the conference outright, were top seed, and were not able to play the CUSA tournament due to covid lockdown. He probably would have won at least 3 and advanced to the final, or further, and we would have at least been guaranteed a NIT bid if we didn't make the big dance. I hate to imply this wasn't a 20 win season when we stopped at 18 and the next (4 or 5?) games could not be played.

In his previous stop, Grant won 20 games in his only season at Arkansas St in 2017.

So yes, he's good, he's that good.

And there were multiple games cancelled and not made up including a tournament. That 18 win season should have been 25.