Pony Excess - Espn's 30 On 30 Movie Tonight

[meangreendork]

This was a joke of a documentary. The "justifications" laid out on SMU's behalf are beyond ludicrous.

First they start with a "everyone in Dallas wanted a winner because the Cowboys were good...therefore they were under a lot of pressure" backdrop. Hell, they even mention the freakin' Kennedy assasination as a reason Dallas needed some positive pub!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then, they go on to lay out the "everyone in college football cheats, SMU was just trying to be the best they could be" crap.

Then, they argue that UT, aTm, and even Pitt brought this upon SMU because they were jealous. Nobody would ever argue that I'm a UT apologist but this is utter and total crap.

Then, if that weren't enough, they blame a DEAD guy who blew the whistle and present him as a drug addict with sour grapes syndrome. Yes, a dead guy.

Every SMU person interviewed, including that weasel Craig James, tries to trot out that same old entitled and "who me" routine for the entire program.

And the attitude hasn't changed ONE BIT on the hilltop. Pathetic. Truly pathetic.

The SMU people had some rotten attitudes. I mean, it's gross to see. It's either feigning ignorance, claiming that everyone did it so it was okay, bragging that SMU did the cheating better and that being worth bragging about, or whining about how bad the penalty was, or worse, acting like they had something to be proud about with the current state of the SMU program - as if they were somehow to be credited with that.

Talk about something that stinks from the inside out - going up as high as the governor's office. Then you have all of these people who were major players in all of this trying to shove the blame on someone else. Honor among thieves doesn't even cover how badly these folks treated each other. Taking the boosters and throwing them under the bus, then having the nerve to continue to do the same thing that SMU had been busted for previously. Then we're looking at a situation where someone commits a rather serious offense, and then isn't smart enough to cover it up by mailing things in university stationery.

What's worse is how everyone acts surprised.

Also, Craig James has zero credibility.

Edited December 12, 2010 by meangreendork

[BonfireBrian]

One thing that stood out to me was the emergency conference in New Orleans when all of these rules were laid out. Only 6 teams voted against the new Death Penalty rules, 3 of them in the old Southwest Conference. SMU, Houston, and Texas voted against it. At least Houston and Texas were smart enough to stop (or at least not get caught). I didn't realize how much cheating was going on in that old conference.

[stebo]

The guy that made this film has never made a real film/documentary before. He graduated from Jesuit and went on to SMU. He is 32 years old and has always wanted to be a film maker. This was his big break... they had an article in the DaMN about him. One quote that was pretty funny, he said that he thought he would spend the rest of his life editing deer trip home videos and kid's birthday parties.

Question for those that lived through this while thing - did SMU draw crowds back then? Even now - with a winning coach and the boosters back on board to buy coaching staffs - the team is lucky to get 15K into Ford Field. Was it always that way? I imagine that UT and aTm brought their crowds; but did SMU ever have a loyal following?

[UNTflyer]

The guy that made this film has never made a real film/documentary before. He graduated from Jesuit and went on to SMU. He is 32 years old and has always wanted to be a film maker. This was his big break... they had an article in the DaMN about him. One quote that was pretty funny, he said that he thought he would spend the rest of his life editing deer trip home videos and kid's birthday parties.

Question for those that lived through this while thing - did SMU draw crowds back then? Even now - with a winning coach and the boosters back on board to buy coaching staffs - the team is lucky to get 15K into Ford Field. Was it always that way? I imagine that UT and aTm brought their crowds; but did SMU ever have a loyal following?

In 1977, SMU's home attendance average was 25,644. By the end of 1978, SMU's home attendance had risen to 51,960

[LongJim]

The author was in the episode and he explained where the quote came from.

I thought it was a bit uneven. Some parts were great, but the justification and absolution of the players was ridiculous. I would have enjoyed more on what folks got and maybe a little less of making ESPN employee Craig James look blameless for the whole thing.

Still, overall, it was a pretty good watch, despite having more exposition than Atlas Shrugged and that one scene in Spaceballs combined.

I haven't see it yet, but I heard that Dale Hanson attempted to take credit for breaking the story. From what I've heard, he did little other than read copy that he was given by a couple of people who actually did the digging. Also sickens me that James came off looking like mother's little angel.

[UNTflyer]

I haven't see it yet, but I heard that Dale Hanson attempted to take credit for breaking the story. From what I've heard, he did little other than read copy that he was given by a couple of people who actually did the digging. Also sickens me that James came off looking like mother's little angel.

Hansen was the reporter who confronted the SMU staff with the famous envelope. As to how much involvement he had in the actually investigation that led to that moment is unclear to me.

[VideoEagle]

The guy that made this film has never made a real film/documentary before. He graduated from Jesuit and went on to SMU. He is 32 years old and has always wanted to be a film maker. This was his big break... they had an article in the DaMN about him. One quote that was pretty funny, he said that he thought he would spend the rest of his life editing deer trip home videos and kid's birthday parties.

Question for those that lived through this while thing - did SMU draw crowds back then? Even now - with a winning coach and the boosters back on board to buy coaching staffs - the team is lucky to get 15K into Ford Field. Was it always that way? I imagine that UT and aTm brought their crowds; but did SMU ever have a loyal following?

Short answer is not really. Flyer posted their announced crowds, but they must use the same guy to count as they use today. Yes, they were better than today, but you had a similar percentage of "inflation" of the actual numbers. SMU would never then and still would never do a system like NT with scanned tickets that are in an audited system.

[Cowtown]

as a young lad my dad had annual tickets to the cotton bowl. I went to the SMU v Pitt game and was shocked at how low the SMU turnout was. I remember thinking that this was one of the best teams in the land, in their own backyard and they were half the crowd that Pitt brought. Granted it was one of the more miserable games I have ever been to...about 45 and rainy.

Man I wish A&M also got nailed.

When Wacker found out about the payments to players he turned TCU in, and how did the NCAA repay his honesty? With the 2nd worst penalty ever handed out, 2nd only to SMU. That is why to this day coaches wont turn their programs in. Its better to turn a blind eye and take the 5th than admit cheating. Wacker truly was an honest man and it bothered him deeply that the NCAA hammered him for coming clean but let the A&M and the rest of the SWC schools skate by.

I thought the documentary was amateur and too helter skelter. I was expecting the best of the bunch to be the last but I was very disappointed. I think I will go watch the rise and fall of Columbian soccer again.

[CMJ]

I thought it was one of the stronger ones in the series (that I have seen). My favorite so far was probably the one on Len Bias.

[cdizzle86]

Just finished watching the documentary. I was too young when all this happened, but I can't believe how bad the corruption was at SMU. They deserved every bit of punishment they received. I was completely shocked at how they turned around the whole story at the end just to make themselves seem innocent, but I expect nothing less from a film made by an SMU alum, for the SMU fan base.

I hope McCarney gets our team together so we can really stick it to SMU when we play them next. My disgust for SMU and everything they stand for has tripled....especially Craig James.

[LongJim]

Question for those that lived through this while thing - did SMU draw crowds back then? Even now - with a winning coach and the boosters back on board to buy coaching staffs - the team is lucky to get 15K into Ford Field. Was it always that way? I imagine that UT and aTm brought their crowds; but did SMU ever have a loyal following?

"Crowds" is a relative term. SMU during those days was playing a lot of games in the Cotton Bowl or Texas Stadium, particularly for their games against aTm, UT, etc. However, I went to a few games between 1979-1981, a couple in the Cotton Bowl (1 against Baylor) and that place might have had 40K in there for that game. Texas Stadium crowds were sizable-relatively-but they were not sellouts by any means. They were drawing then better than they are now, certainly.

Edited December 13, 2010 by LongJim

[UNT 90 Grad]

I remember going to several SMU games as a kid at Texas Stadium. I just remember that the crowds were big enough for them to open the upper level.

[untjim1995]

as a young lad my dad had annual tickets to the cotton bowl. I went to the SMU v Pitt game and was shocked at how low the SMU turnout was. I remember thinking that this was one of the best teams in the land, in their own backyard and they were half the crowd that Pitt brought. Granted it was one of the more miserable games I have ever been to...about 45 and rainy.

Man I wish A&M also got nailed.

When Wacker found out about the payments to players he turned TCU in, and how did the NCAA repay his honesty? With the 2nd worst penalty ever handed out, 2nd only to SMU. That is why to this day coaches wont turn their programs in. Its better to turn a blind eye and take the 5th than admit cheating. Wacker truly was an honest man and it bothered him deeply that the NCAA hammered him for coming clean but let the A&M and the rest of the SWC schools skate by.

I thought the documentary was amateur and too helter skelter. I was expecting the best of the bunch to be the last but I was very disappointed. I think I will go watch the rise and fall of Columbian soccer again.

Your post about Wacker and TCU is dead-on. I grew up in Ft. Worth during the 70s and 80s and remember this all so very well. Wacker not only turned TCU in when he found out about it, he suspended his best player, Kenneth Davis, for being paid. Then TCU got royally screwed by the NCAA. At the exact same time, Jackie Sherrill was running a pay-for-play at A&M and they got off relatively light compared to TCU when their scandal broke later in the decade. What reaqlly stood out about SMU getting caught, deservedly so, was wehn they beat Texas in 1980 while they were ranked #2. The NCAA was on their heels right after that, which gives credence to those anti-Texas fans who cliam about the Longhorns influence with the NCAA, the Texas media, and the boosters in this state.

[TIgreen01]

I'm not sure how or why this stuff stays so quiet, but anyone who thinks FBS football is any "cleaner" now than it was then (80's) are kidding themselves. Maybe it's moved beyond being so brash as to just hand over suitcases filled with cash, but I'd venture to guess that you'd have a much harder time finding a clean AQ program than one that isn't.

Edited December 13, 2010 by TIgreen01

[VideoEagle]

I'm not sure how or why this stuff stays so quiet, but anyone who thinks FBS football is any "cleaner" now than it was then (80's) are kidding themselves. Maybe it's moved beyond being so brash as to just hand over suitcases filled with cash, but I'd venture to guess that you'd have a much harder time finding a clean AQ program than one that isn't.

I don't think you have the coaches and the regents (or equivalent) openly coordinating the collection of the cash and the payouts as SMU did. Coaches especially are now more insulated so they can plausibly deny things now. Plus, you don't have overt things like half the team owning cars from the same dealership. Now, it is more subtle: Cam Newton's dad's trucking firm had contracts to keep just two drivers busy a couple of years ago, but within three months of Cam signing with Auburn he had to hire around a dozen. He church was being foreclosed on but within months of Cam signing with Auburn, anonymous donors gave enough to pay off the building and fund an expansion.

[Baby Arm!]

I don't think you have the coaches and the regents (or equivalent) openly coordinating the collection of the cash and the payouts as SMU did. Coaches especially are now more insulated so they can plausibly deny things now. Plus, you don't have overt things like half the team owning cars from the same dealership. Now, it is more subtle: Cam Newton's dad's trucking firm had contracts to keep just two drivers busy a couple of years ago, but within three months of Cam signing with Auburn he had to hire around a dozen. He church was being foreclosed on but within months of Cam signing with Auburn, anonymous donors gave enough to pay off the building and fund an expansion.

Interesting note from Dan Patrick's radio show this morning. DP said he was talking to a coach from another conference at the Heisman award ceremony that said whenever they find out a kid they are recruiting is being courted by an SEC school they back off. Why??? Because they cant compete with whats being offerred to the kids. DP pressed for more and the coach told him 'the Cam Newton situation is not an isolated incident' and said all the prized recruits in the SEC are for sale.

[LongJim]

I'm not sure how or why this stuff stays so quiet, but anyone who thinks FBS football is any "cleaner" now than it was then (80's) are kidding themselves. Maybe it's moved beyond being so brash as to just hand over suitcases filled with cash, but I'd venture to guess that you'd have a much harder time finding a clean AQ program than one that isn't.

The problem is not typically with "the program", it is with the boosters, and now--street agents. Which is why places such as GMG.com are often reminding everyone about the definition of a 'booster' and what they can and cannot do re: recruits.

[untjim1995]

The point made in the documentary about SMU being "The U" before Miami came to prominence seems correct to me. They flaunted the cash and the recruits that could be given and bought. Even to this day, a lot of their alums and former players/coaches/staff think it was genius because it was the only way they could level the playing field with the larger state schools. To watch some fo the alums who were banned from the program in that film act like it was no big deal was just sickening. Knowing that this bunch had as much sway in keeping UNT from joining the old SWC as anyone just disgusts me.

SMU got every bit of what they deserved. One thing that the documentary didn't really hit on was the fact that SMU didn't suck after the Death Penalty because of the black cloud that they were recruiting against, but it was because their leadership decided to make enrollment for football difficult and refused to hire a name coach. When they finally got tired of losing and of becoming completely irrelevant, they went back to the cash cows at SMU and bought June Jones. I am sure that they have greatly relaxed their admission standards for football players, as well. One thing that makes me laugh, though, is the fact that SMU will never have it as good as they did back then. They literally blew their chance at staying in a BCS-AQ conference. Imagine how hacked off their fans must be. We get pissed here at UNT because we have had to play in bad leagues over the decades, but I can't begin to imagine what an alum of SMU from the early 80s must think when they see that SMU lost a game against the likes of Marshall or Tulsa, when they saw SMU beat Texas, Arkansas, A&M, etc... That must be one hell of a drop in enthusiasm for the program. Oh well, it sucks to be a cheater that gets caught and punished justly!!

[froghorn]

Man, I wish they would make a documentary about UNT. But, what would the narration to any preview go like? hmmm..Maybe, "What if I told you there was a school in North Texas no one gave a damn about. A directional school which wallows in the academic realm of Tier 3 institutions, an outsider who always yearned for SWC legitimacy only to be turned away. What if I told you they were anchored in a city that like the university played second fiddle to two strong private academic institutions that had three times the pedigree and history UNT had in two larger cities. What if I told you, they straddle the line between sanity and sports insanity by gorging in paranoia, hypotheticals, and supposed conspiracy theories meant to keep them out of the SWC, Big 12, Conference USA, or the Mountain West because everyone was just "too scared" of what would they would become. What if I told you there was a school out there that acted like they were the only school with potential and the promise of positive expansion. What if I told you there was a school out there that argued because you could see the stadium from the freakin highway, they were on their way to claiming their football program an oasis for 5 star recruits. What if I told you, they had a poster who claimed that a high TV rating for a 1982 UNT game against ULM, and being 25 minutes from the airport was reason enough to crown them worthy of inclusion into a BCS Conference. What if I told you, they used their high enrollment as a reason why they should be taken seriously, considering anyone including their dead dog could get int. I guess we can expect schools like University of Houston and UTSA to become Florida overnight because after all, they are universities with a high enrollment in major cities. What if I told you, they played in the Sun Belt, have endured losing season after losing season, and yet have that temerity to talk smack about TCU who has done wonders for a decade. A new addition to our 30 for 30, ‘UNT: we are awesome. Why are you walking away shaking your head, we really our number one! Look, we have a stadium with one section that looks like a cheesy winged replica, some 3 whatever time it is jazz band, and thrive off grand hypotheticals that never materialize.’ UNT, you do know they filmed a crap load of scenes for Unnecessary Roughness here don't you!! Take that UT and your championships, A&M and your following, Tech and your high powered offense, TCU and your back to back BCS Bowls, and SMU who we love to claim is our rival but does not want anything to do with us. UNT: Meh University forever!"

[Mean Green Matt]

Man, I wish they would make a documentary about UNT. But, what would the narration to any preview go like? hmmm..Maybe, "What if I told you there was a school in North Texas no one gave a damn about. A directional school which wallows in the academic realm of Tier 3 institutions, an outsider who always yearned for SWC legitimacy only to be turned away. What if I told you they were anchored in a city that like the university played second fiddle to two strong private academic institutions that had three times the pedigree and history UNT had in two larger cities. What if I told you, they straddle the line between sanity and sports insanity by gorging in paranoia, hypotheticals, and supposed conspiracy theories meant to keep them out of the SWC, Big 12, Conference USA, or the Mountain West because everyone was just "too scared" of what would they would become. What if I told you there was a school out there that acted like they were the only school with potential and the promise of positive expansion. What if I told you there was a school out there that argued because you could see the stadium from the freakin highway, they were on their way to claiming their football program an oasis for 5 star recruits. What if I told you, they had a poster who claimed that a high TV rating for a 1982 UNT game against ULM, and being 25 minutes from the airport was reason enough to crown them worthy of inclusion into a BCS Conference. What if I told you, they used their high enrollment as a reason why they should be taken seriously, considering anyone including their dead dog could get int. I guess we can expect schools like University of Houston and UTSA to become Florida overnight because after all, they are universities with a high enrollment in major cities. What if I told you, they played in the Sun Belt, have endured losing season after losing season, and yet have that temerity to talk smack about TCU who has done wonders for a decade. A new addition to our 30 for 30, UNT: we are awesome. Why are you walking away shaking your head, we really our number one! Look, we have a stadium with one section that looks like a cheesy winged replica, some 3 whatever time it is jazz band, and thrive off grand hypotheticals that never materialize. UNT, you do know they filmed a crap load of scenes for Unnecessary Roughness here don't you!! Take that UT and your championships, A&M and your following, Tech and your high powered offense, TCU and your back to back BCS Bowls, and SMU who we love to claim is our rival but does not want anything to do with us. UNT: Meh University forever!"

What if I told you....Froghorn is a douche

By the way, paragraphs are a great writing tool.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Mean Green Matt

[froghorn]

"By the way, paragraphs are a great writing tool."

Man, strong substantive comeback replying to everything but the post itself. Go give yourself a sticker for that one!

[Mean Green Matt]

"By the way, paragraphs are a great writing tool."

Man, strong substantive comeback replying to everything but the post itself. Go give yourself a sticker for that one!

First off, if you HAD used some paragraphs, it would be a little easier to give a direct, and orderly response to that load of garbage. But the fact you just went on an unsubstantiated rant, I really don't feel the need to directly respond (but I'll give it a shot below).

Instead of wasting a lot of time replying to you though, I am going to head over to the women's basketball game to support my school. Yes, women's basketball.

I may be wrong about this, but in the case you ARE from SMU and just over here to make trouble, I will leave you with this to dwell on:

You did a good job of nitpicking all the little jabs you could take at UNT, but at least the greatest successes that we have achieved in our history as a program, we did not have to cheat to get there. Have we ever been ranked #2 in the country, of course not; but cheating is the only reason SMU was. No matter what SMU achieves in the future, they will NEVER be able to shed that black mark in their history. Thankfully SMU decided to grow a pair and schedule us in the future...it is in 2012 or 2014 when the series starts again...I can't wait, and when you come, I HOPE YOU HAVE TO SIT IN THE WINGZONE!!

Edited December 14, 2010 by Mean Green Matt

[Denia Park Pedro]

"By the way, paragraphs are a great writing tool."

Man, strong substantive comeback replying to everything but the post itself. Go give yourself a sticker for that one!

First of all, I think there has been more complaining about a lack of institutional support for athletics than about others keeping us down. Debatable, but that's how I've read this board over time.

Second, most of us seem to be really happy that it appears that the lack of institutional support thing appears to be changing and that UNT looks like it's doing what it takes to be a competative mid-major football program.

I've been following this program for 10 years and there are people here who have been doing it for 40+ and if I'm really excited those guys must be over the flipping moon.

Are we irrational for being happy that our school seems to be taking it's athletic department seriously? Absolutely!

If you think there's something wrong with that, tough.

I hope that was a substantive enough response for you.

[froghorn]

Actually I am a TCU alum from class of 2005 and a graduate student at the University of Texas at Austin. Look at my handle, which should have helped give you some direction. For the record, as a TCU/UT student I hate SMU, but hate the arrogance of some UNT posters who bring down TCU when they have done something utterly amazing with real consistency. The arrogance of some on this board towards schools with amazing success is nothing short of amazing. Imagine if you had the success of Ohio State, you would be insufferable.

[ColoradoEagle]

Man, I wish they would make a documentary about UNT. But, what would the narration to any preview go like? hmmm..Maybe, "What if I told you there was a school in North Texas no one gave a damn about. A directional school which wallows in the academic realm of Tier 3 institutions, an outsider who always yearned for SWC legitimacy only to be turned away. What if I told you they were anchored in a city that like the university played second fiddle to two strong private academic institutions that had three times the pedigree and history UNT had in two larger cities. What if I told you, they straddle the line between sanity and sports insanity by gorging in paranoia, hypotheticals, and supposed conspiracy theories meant to keep them out of the SWC, Big 12, Conference USA, or the Mountain West because everyone was just "too scared" of what would they would become. What if I told you there was a school out there that acted like they were the only school with potential and the promise of positive expansion. What if I told you there was a school out there that argued because you could see the stadium from the freakin highway, they were on their way to claiming their football program an oasis for 5 star recruits. What if I told you, they had a poster who claimed that a high TV rating for a 1982 UNT game against ULM, and being 25 minutes from the airport was reason enough to crown them worthy of inclusion into a BCS Conference. What if I told you, they used their high enrollment as a reason why they should be taken seriously, considering anyone including their dead dog could get int. I guess we can expect schools like University of Houston and UTSA to become Florida overnight because after all, they are universities with a high enrollment in major cities. What if I told you, they played in the Sun Belt, have endured losing season after losing season, and yet have that temerity to talk smack about TCU who has done wonders for a decade. A new addition to our 30 for 30, ‘UNT: we are awesome. Why are you walking away shaking your head, we really our number one! Look, we have a stadium with one section that looks like a cheesy winged replica, some 3 whatever time it is jazz band, and thrive off grand hypotheticals that never materialize.’ UNT, you do know they filmed a crap load of scenes for Unnecessary Roughness here don't you!! Take that UT and your championships, A&M and your following, Tech and your high powered offense, TCU and your back to back BCS Bowls, and SMU who we love to claim is our rival but does not want anything to do with us. UNT: Meh University forever!"

What if I told you there was a TCU alum with so much time on his hands that he combs every single thread on the board of a school he can't stand?