Wwhfd

[greenminer]

Where did anybody say this? Quote it if it's out there. I'm sure as hell not re-reading the 9 pages of this thread. Why is everything so sensationalized with some of you people?

I can assume it's directed at me and my posts. Yea, USF got to number 2 in BCS. Once. For one week. What else have they done but been an AVERAGE AQ team? Spare me the 14 years crap. They had extraordinary circumstances and are now a perennial 7-8 win team. The only thing I've said is tap the brakes on their praise.

I'll take being #2 for one week and the paycheck that comes with being a middle-pack BCS AQ.

Hello?

[UNT Five&Dime]

I'll take being #2 for one week and the paycheck that comes with being a middle-pack BCS AQ.

Hello?

Hi.

Who wouldn't? The myth of USF being a top AQ team is all I am challenging.

[SAM Coach]

If Hayden Fry was the UNT Athletic Director, who would he hire?

Who cares! He's not the AD! A better question; what will RV do?

[greenminer]

Hi.

Who wouldn't? The myth of USF being a top AQ team is all I am challenging.

Then have at it!

This rest if us are discussing who we need to build our program. And with Internet super-hero success, I might add.

None shall pass!!!!

[FirefightnRick]

So here's a question...not really arguing with you, just wondering aloud.

How much of Leavitt's success at USF was due to the politics surrounding him at USF that were really out of his control? USF was on a different path than what we are on. USF was already a member of CUSA when the football program was started. Back then, CUSA was a LOT better than it is now. It was one of the top 3 basketball leagues and gaining ground in football. Then, USF only ended up playing 2 years of football in CUSA before making the jump to the Big East. To me, I think that would be MUCH easier to recruit athletes to than maybe our situation....you know, unless there is some secret deal in place that's going to open all these conference's doors for us.

With USF already in a decent CUSA, was their money situation really akin to starting from scratch? And I haven't even brought about the fact that there were only 3 I-A level teams in the state of Florida at that time.

Again...just wondering aloud.

Season-by-season results

Division I-AA Year Overall Record Conference Standing Bowl Game

Independent

1997 5 - 6 N/A N/A

1998 8 - 3 N/A N/A

1999 7 - 4 N/A N/A

2000 7 - 4 N/A N/A

Division I-A Year Overall Record Conference Standing Bowl Game

Independent

2001 8 - 3 N/A N/A

2002 9 - 2 N/A N/A

Conference USA

2003 7 - 4 5 - 3 T - 3rd

2004 4 - 7 3 - 5 T - 6th

Big East

2005 6 - 6 4 - 3 T - 3rd Meineke Car Care [L]

2006 9 - 4 4 - 3 T - 4th Papajohns.com [W]

2007 9 - 4 4 - 3 T - 3rd Sun [L]

2008 8 - 5 2 - 5 6th St. Petersburg [W]

2009 8 - 5 3 - 4 T - 4th International [W]

I don't see how politics had a thing to do with Jim Leavitt's success at USF. Regardless of any monies or conference affiliation afforded him, the guy still had to recruit, build his program from scratch, work within the budget he was handed and coach X's and O's on the field. If there were politics involved it sure didn't help him out with facility disadvantages he was dealing with in the beginning since he spent his first 5/6 years coaching out of a trailer house.

South Florida had to spend two seasons scrimmaging themselves. I can't imagine how a coach recruits to that? But Jim Leavitt did.

C-USA was starting their third year of existence when USF finally started playing football in '97 as a 1-AA independent, finishing 5-6 of a first year season that included a 3 point loss to The Citadel (10-7) and a one point loss to Georgia Southern(24-23). In their second year they beat The Citadel 45-6.

In their third year they beat Western Kentucky, Texas State, New Hampshire and lost to James Madison by 10.

In their fourth year they beat Troy(only a year before Troy would beat us), Western Kentucky, James Madison, U Conn and lost to Baylor by 15.

In their fifth year they beat Pitt, Houston, Utah State and of course North Texas, all while still coaching out of trailers while we had to listen to the Buick trying to convince the rest of the world that it was he who had it the worst in facilities than anyone else.

In season 6, they not only beat the reigning Sun Belt Champions again, but beat Southern Miss, East Carolina, Memphis, Bowling Green, Houston and would lose to Oklahoma by 17 that year.

Once they did join C-USA, C-USA was in only their 9th season. By that time, USF had already played 6 seasons as an independent and had only lost more than 4 games a season one time, which was their inaugural season. They would go 5-3 in their first season in C-USA and 4-3 in their first season in the Big East. Two seasons later they were in position to possibly be in the national championship game.

I don't know, but to me for someone to go from having to scrimmage them selves without proper facilities to work in, or a stadium to call their own, to possibly playing for a national title in 12 years is an unbelievable climb of success we may never see in college football again?

Rick

[PlummMeanGreen]

I don't see how politics had a thing to do with Jim Leavitt's success at USF. Regardless of any monies or conference affiliation afforded him, the guy still had to recruit, build his program from scratch, work within the budget he was handed and coach X's and O's on the field. If there were politics involved it sure didn't help him out with facility disadvantages he was dealing with in the beginning since he spent his first 5/6 years coaching out of a trailer house.

South Florida had to spend two seasons scrimmaging themselves. I can't imagine how a coach recruits to that? But Jim Leavitt did.

C-USA was starting their third year of existence when USF finally started playing football in '97 as a 1-AA independent, finishing 5-6 of a first year season that included a 3 point loss to The Citadel (10-7) and a one point loss to Georgia Southern(24-23). In their second year they beat The Citadel 45-6.

In their third year they beat Western Kentucky, Texas State, New Hampshire and lost to James Madison by 10.

In their fourth year they beat Troy(only a year before Troy would beat us), Western Kentucky, James Madison, U Conn and lost to Baylor by 15.

In their fifth year they beat Pitt, Houston, Utah State and of course North Texas, all while still coaching out of trailers while we had to listen to the Buick trying to convince the rest of the world that it was he who had it the worst in facilities than anyone else.

In season 6, they not only beat the reigning Sun Belt Champions again, but beat Southern Miss, East Carolina, Memphis, Bowling Green, Houston and would lose to Oklahoma by 17 that year.

Once they did join C-USA, C-USA was in only their 9th season. By that time, USF had already played 6 seasons as an independent and had only lost more than 4 games a season one time, which was their inaugural season. They would go 5-3 in their first season in C-USA and 4-3 in their first season in the Big East. Two seasons later they were in position to possibly be in the national championship game.

I don't know, but to me for someone to go from having to scrimmage them selves without proper facilities to work in, or a stadium to call their own, to possibly playing for a national title in 12 years is an unbelievable climb of success we may never see in college football again?

Rick

FFR, a little long on that post, eh? I never realized this could be contagious. I'll call the Atlanta Disease Control Center today and request they make an immediate visit to this board!

GMG!

Edited November 12, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[TIgreen01]

I don't see how politics had a thing to do with Jim Leavitt's success at USF. Regardless of any monies or conference affiliation afforded him, the guy still had to recruit, build his program from scratch, work within the budget he was handed and coach X's and O's on the field. If there were politics involved it sure didn't help him out with facility disadvantages he was dealing with in the beginning since he spent his first 5/6 years coaching out of a trailer house.

South Florida had to spend two seasons scrimmaging themselves. I can't imagine how a coach recruits to that? But Jim Leavitt did.

C-USA was starting their third year of existence when USF finally started playing football in '97 as a 1-AA independent, finishing 5-6 of a first year season that included a 3 point loss to The Citadel (10-7) and a one point loss to Georgia Southern(24-23). In their second year they beat The Citadel 45-6.

In their third year they beat Western Kentucky, Texas State, New Hampshire and lost to James Madison by 10.

In their fourth year they beat Troy(only a year before Troy would beat us), Western Kentucky, James Madison, U Conn and lost to Baylor by 15.

In their fifth year they beat Pitt, Houston, Utah State and of course North Texas, all while still coaching out of trailers while we had to listen to the Buick trying to convince the rest of the world that it was he who had it the worst in facilities than anyone else.

In season 6, they not only beat the reigning Sun Belt Champions again, but beat Southern Miss, East Carolina, Memphis, Bowling Green, Houston and would lose to Oklahoma by 17 that year.

Once they did join C-USA, C-USA was in only their 9th season. By that time, USF had already played 6 seasons as an independent and had only lost more than 4 games a season one time, which was their inaugural season. They would go 5-3 in their first season in C-USA and 4-3 in their first season in the Big East. Two seasons later they were in position to possibly be in the national championship game.

I don't know, but to me for someone to go from having to scrimmage them selves without proper facilities to work in, or a stadium to call their own, to possibly playing for a national title in 12 years is an unbelievable climb of success we may never see in college football again?

Rick

Good post. I am definitely impressed that Leavitt had USF competitive as early as he did---basically every season outside of the first (which would have been extremely difficult since he likely had a team full of underclassmen). There is no question that the guy is a good coach---and I'd probably go as far as saying better than anything we've seen at UNT for the past 20+ years.

That said, I think recruiting to that situation could not have been as difficult as recruiting to UNT (in the past 15 years. It's hard to say what the stadium will do for us---esp. if we're able to jump conferences). UConn is another example--though to a lesser extent than USF---of a program with lots of money deciding that they wanted to be successful and then going out and doing it. If that is the plan at UNT...then Leavitt is absolutely a guy to consider. He's proven he can land top level recruits when the university is behind him. However, do we know that that will still be the case after the player altercation? Is his name forever tarnished as a result? Why should UNT be the school that finds out?

All indications are pointing to us getting serious looks from high profile candidates around the country due to the new stadium and appearance that we're finally getting behind athletics. If those rumors are all false and we have to resort to taking a big risk, as usual....then, and only then, should UNT seriously consider hiring Leavitt.

Edited November 12, 2010 by TIgreen01

[VideoEagle]

In answer to the What Would Hayden do question, I notice he always recommended his assistants for Head Coaching jobs.

Leavitt did great work at USF and he should be interviewed. The cloud currently hanging over him can't be just ignored but rather should be factored in. At the first few pressers, it's going to be the first question and RV is going have have to spend some time explaining that rather than promoting NT.

But maybe not a lot of time. I've asked around random sports fans at a few places like Champs in Addison, Frankies both uptown and Lewisville and a couple of other places. Only two (2) people I've found had ever heard of Jim Leavitt. That's it. If no one heard of the guy, its' not much of a scandal. Reporters will have heard of it and you can be opposing coaches recruiting against him will have heard of it. You can be certain any potential naming sponsor for the stadium will have heard about it. But if only people specializing in East Coast sports know about it then it might not be a major issue after all.

Just factor it in during the selection process with everyone else's pluses and minuses.

Edited November 12, 2010 by VideoEagle

[MizzouTigers]

Good post. I am definitely impressed that Leavitt had USF competitive as early as he did---basically every season outside of the first (which would have been extremely difficult since he likely had a team full of underclassmen). There is no question that the guy is a good coach---and I'd probably go as far as saying better than anything we've seen at UNT for the past 20+ years.

That said, I think recruiting to that situation could not have been as difficult as recruiting to UNT (in the past 15 years. It's hard to say what the stadium will do for us---esp. if we're able to jump conferences). UConn is another example--though to a lesser extent than USF---of a program with lots of money deciding that they wanted to be successful and then going out and doing it. If that is the plan at UNT...then Leavitt is absolutely a guy to consider. He's proven he can land top level recruits when the university is behind him. However, do we know that that will still be the case after the player altercation? Is his name forever tarnished as a result? Why should UNT be the school that finds out?

All indications are pointing to us getting serious looks from high profile candidates around the country due to the new stadium and appearance that we're finally getting behind athletics. If those rumors are all false and we have to resort to taking a big risk, as usual....then, and only then, should UNT seriously consider hiring Leavitt.

Recruiting is more difficult at UNT than USF??

"Hi. My name is Jim Leavitt and I want you to come play football for me. No, we don't have a stadium or a weight room or even a meeting room and we are going to have to practice fore two years before we get to play our first game. No, there won't be any bowl games or any TV since we will be an independent 1AA."

[TIgreen01]

deleted...

Edited November 12, 2010 by TIgreen01

[MizzouTigers]

Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying. Spin it all you want, the fact is that USF made a commitment to build that program--and all their athletics. It wouldn't have been hard to show off the other facilities already built or under construction, show plans and contracts on the rest of the stuff soon to come and don't forget---they played in Raymond James from the get go. The rest of the sports were already in a solid mid-level conference so you'd sign knowing that you weren't signing on to play in the worst conference in all of college football and for a school with one of the smallest athletics budgets in the nation.

The first 3-4 classes were recruited to play against a I-AA schedule. There wasn't an immediate need to land top level recruits. Leavitt did a good job getting players that could help them win at the outset, but they sure as heck weren't top level BCS caliber players.

Up until a year ago, the UNT stadium was a dream...and had already failed to get started for years and years before that---making it worse was that our coaches were selling recruits on getting to play in a new stadium for over 10 years---so there was a legitimate chance that it wouldn't happen anytime soon. We have played in what is regarded as the weakest conference since a year after we made the jump. First it was the Big West, and now the Sun Belt. Up until 2012, when the WAC takes on UTSA and TSU, it will continue to be that way.

Now, what will recruiting to UNT be like going forward? The new AC, athletics village and new stadium show a commitment to athletics like there has never before been at UNT. If we match that by paying a highly competitive salary to our new football staff, then we've got a situation like we've never had before. But we also recruit against 9 other (soon to be 11) FBS level teams in just our own state...2 of them (SMU and TCU) are in our own backyard and recruit the same level athlete we hope to land. 2 more are coming online in the next 2 years. Florida had 3---THREE other FBS teams in state when USF started up. Now it has 7. In a state that produces roughly the same number of FBS level kids as Texas, I'd call advantage USF.

Only the state California has more players in the NFL than Texas does. Leavitt not only had to recruit against Florida, Florida State and Miami, but also against UCF, FAU, FIU and Jacksonville State as well as Steve Spurrier at South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama and every school in the SEC. Then came the recruiters from the Big 10, Big 12 and PAC 10, so I think it's pretty much even. Maybe you should check out how many USF players went into last year's NFL Draft as a measure of his recruiting skilz.

2010 NFL Draft

[SleepingGiantsFan]

Sounds to me like Leavitt is the real world version of Gene Hackman's character in Hoosiers:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4807719

Would Hayden Fry hire somebody like that?

[untjim1995]

Recruiting is more difficult at UNT than USF??

"Hi. My name is Jim Leavitt and I want you to come play football for me. No, we don't have a stadium or a weight room or even a meeting room and we are going to have to practice fore two years before we get to play our first game. No, there won't be any bowl games or any TV since we will be an independent 1AA."

OK, Antler, you're game has gotten very old here. I realize Leavitt was your ol' college buddy and he will probably hire you to become a member of his staff if he was to get hired here. You coming over to here to our site and calling out, in such a snarky manner, our alums and fans because of your perceived view of being such an educated football fan from an AQ league is beyond ridiculous. How long would I last if I did that on tigerzone.com (or whatever your idiot fans post on) by flaming your intelligence? Not long--and I know because I read the way your fans talk to Nebraska fans and KU fans when they go on there and talk about Mizzou.

Speaking of Mizzou, how is that you guys have never won a football championship in the last 40 years, when you are the ONLY division 1 school in a fairly large state, with two bigger markets to get support from? Here at UNT, we are the 10th Division 1 school in the state (unlike USF in Florida being #5 in FL when they moved up to CUSA--which was already above #4 UCF), and we have never been in a league that has been close to a mid-major level, much less an equivalent to what Mizzou has been blessed with forever. Yet, here you are, even with your kush conference affiliation (which will change soon enough), to tell us little folks what to do to get our program turned around. Thanks a whole lot. By the way, let me give you some unsolicited and unwanted advice, too. Keep Gary Pinkel for a looooooonnnnnggg time. He is one of the most overrated coaches in the NCAAs. Chase Daniel made him. So did Nebraska's decline, which of course ended when they hired--wait, for it, a never-been-head-coach other than a bowl game, but was a hell of a defensive wizard. Voila, now Nebraska is back to jack-hammering you and the rest of the B12 North. Good thing they will take your place in the Big 10 that your idiot chancellor so coveted and all your idiot fans bragged about getting on every message board around the country, huh? But since you didn't get it, and since Illinois wanted no part of you joining, while Nebraska, quite easily, convinced the rest of the B10 that they can deliver the KC market just as easily as Mizzou would, you guys won't have to worry about Nebraska anymore. That will really help you guys out a lot going forward, since you now have to play every Texas and Oklahoma school every year until Texas decides to go independent and they destroy your league. Don't worry, though. CUSA or the MWC will be a great league for Pinkel to compete in down the road. You might even get that conference championship that somehow has evaded your AD trophy case all these years.

See, pal, how fun it is to get lectured about how your program is supposed to go and about "affording to take risks" to build up your status? It ain't much fun, antler. But I bet you already knew that.

[MizzouTigers]

Sounds to me like Leavitt is the real world version of Gene Hackman's character in Hoosiers:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4807719

Would Hayden Fry hire somebody like that?

Except Gene Hackman's character was actually guilty of hitting the player. The allegations against Jim are complete horseshit. I challenge you to read the official USF "report" and come to your own conclusion.

And yes, Fry would hire him again just as he did at Iowa. Fry knows Jim as well as anyone except maybe for Bill Snyder.

[MizzouTigers]

OK, Antler, you're game has gotten very old here. I realize Leavitt was your ol' college buddy and he will probably hire you to become a member of his staff if he was to get hired here. You coming over to here to our site and calling out, in such a snarky manner, our alums and fans because of your perceived view of being such an educated football fan from an AQ league is beyond ridiculous. How long would I last if I did that on tigerzone.com (or whatever your idiot fans post on) by flaming your intelligence? Not long--and I know because I read the way your fans talk to Nebraska fans and KU fans when they go on there and talk about Mizzou.

Speaking of Mizzou, how is that you guys have never won a football championship in the last 40 years, when you are the ONLY division 1 school in a fairly large state, with two bigger markets to get support from? Here at UNT, we are the 10th Division 1 school in the state (unlike USF in Florida being #5 in FL when they moved up to CUSA--which was already above #4 UCF), and we have never been in a league that has been close to a mid-major level, much less an equivalent to what Mizzou has been blessed with forever. Yet, here you are, even with your kush conference affiliation (which will change soon enough), to tell us little folks what to do to get our program turned around. Thanks a whole lot. By the way, let me give you some unsolicited and unwanted advice, too. Keep Gary Pinkel for a looooooonnnnnggg time. He is one of the most overrated coaches in the NCAAs. Chase Daniel made him. So did Nebraska's decline, which of course ended when they hired--wait, for it, a never-been-head-coach other than a bowl game, but was a hell of a defensive wizard. Voila, now Nebraska is back to jack-hammering you and the rest of the B12 North. Good thing they will take your place in the Big 10 that your idiot chancellor so coveted and all your idiot fans bragged about getting on every message board around the country, huh? But since you didn't get it, and since Illinois wanted no part of you joining, while Nebraska, quite easily, convinced the rest of the B10 that they can deliver the KC market just as easily as Mizzou would, you guys won't have to worry about Nebraska anymore. That will really help you guys out a lot going forward, since you now have to play every Texas and Oklahoma school every year until Texas decides to go independent and they destroy your league. Don't worry, though. CUSA or the MWC will be a great league for Pinkel to compete in down the road. You might even get that conference championship that somehow has evaded your AD trophy case all these years.

See, pal, how fun it is to get lectured about how your program is supposed to go and about "affording to take risks" to build up your status? It ain't much fun, antler. But I bet you already knew that.

Dude...You've got some issues.

I have to head to Columbia this afternoon to do some work for the football game tomorrow, but I will take the time this evening to see if I can help you with your issues.

[FirefightnRick]

Sounds to me like Leavitt is the real world version of Gene Hackman's character in Hoosiers:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4807719

Would Hayden Fry hire somebody like that?

Remind me because it's been a while since I saw Hoosiers, but i dont believe Gene Hackman's character in the movie ever denied that what he was fired for didn't happen, nor had 20 witnesses who were in the room where it occured say that it either didn't happen like what was being reported or that it didn't happen at all?

Rick

Edited November 12, 2010 by FirefightnRick

[untjim1995]

Dude...You've got some issues.

I have to head to Columbia this afternoon to do some work for the football game tomorrow, but I will take the time this evening to see if I can help you with your issues.

Yeah, I have issues. The first one is that I don't like reading or listening to condescending idiots tell me how much better my _______ will be if I just do what they tell me. The second one is that I hate the University of Missouri. That about covers it for this thread.

[UNT Five&Dime]

Only the state California has more players in the NFL than Texas does. Leavitt not only had to recruit against Florida, Florida State and Miami, but also against UCF, FAU, FIU and Jacksonville State as well as Steve Spurrier at South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama and every school in the SEC. Then came the recruiters from the Big 10, Big 12 and PAC 10, so I think it's pretty much even. Maybe you should check out how many USF players went into last year's NFL Draft as a measure of his recruiting skilz.

2010 NFL Draft

I fail to understand how you can compare recruiting for USF to recruiting for UNT. The level of FBS competition in Texas is remarkably superior to that in Florida. States border us too, and those same big conferences recruit here. Selling 7 homes games with an road to another Florida school is easier than a 5 game home schedule in a dump we've had to sell in the recent past to in-state recruits. Would you rather play against C-USA and Big East talent while handing out grass kickings to the SBCs of the world, or play against SBC talent and have your grass kicked by the SECs and the Big 12s? That's a no brainer. They aren't the same situations. Not even close. Conference affiliation counts for a lot.

It might be more accurate to compare USF to Texas Tech. Texas Tech is probably #4 in pecking order in Texas. They accomplish the same thing. Average finishes in a BCS conference, with a quick stay at #2 before a fall. They'll continue to get the big boy leftovers, and we'll scrap the bottom of the barrel. Again, our conference will play a huge role in that. So really, what USF has done isn't anything not done before nor since.

Leavitt and Leach would boost our recruiting. I don't doubt that. They won't be bringing in a plethora of NFL talent nor stealing any significant recruits from UT, OU, etc.. Not anytime soon at least. No denying they'd be a boost to our coaching also. But they aren't getting us to #2 or have us BCS busting in the near future. A big name isn't needed to succeed where we are at. I think that thought is driven by years of jealousy and the desire to thump one's chest and say "We're big time!". The need to go from one extreme to the other isn't the only way to go.

For the record, I'm a Fran-Leavitt-Canales guy. In no particular order. I'd be happy with any. Leach is not the kind of man I want associated with my University. Leavitt is borderline. I'll defer to RV and Neinas to decide if he's a man of character or not. That's above my pay-scale. Accusations don't just pop up without something to fuel them. I'm not as impressed with his .622 record and 3rd place finishes as some either. There is no telling how that would translate to an SBC school behind 8-9 other Texas schools. Fran would give UNT the name splash many want and what I regard as a great football mind. Does he have the heart for it? I don't know. Canales has improved the two of the most frustrating things about the Dodge teams in in just 3 weeks... discipline and turnovers. From his limited time at HC, he has shown to at least be competent at the job.

Edited November 12, 2010 by UNT Five&Dime

[SleepingGiantsFan]

Remind me because it's been a while since I saw Hoosiers, but i dont believe Gene Hackman's character in the movie ever denied that what he was fired for didn't happen, nor had 20 witnesses who were in the room where it occured say that it either didn't happen like what was being reported or that it didn't happen at all?

Rick

The Mizzou poster says Leavitt never hit the kid. I continue to admit I haven't fully researched it but the video I linked suggests USF's administration conducted an investigation and concluded that he not only did so, he tried to cover it up and for those reasons he was fired. And you're correct that Coach Dale (I believe was his name in Hoosiers) never denied having hit one of his players. So in thinking about it, if your point is that what Leavitt was found culpable of is more serious than what the coach in Hoosiers did, I would agree. Further, my guess would be that alleged duplicity is going to make it difficult for the man to find another job just as was the case in Hoosiers. (BTW, although Hoosiers was based on a true story, that part of it was fictional, as was the size of the school, which although still small had like three times the number of students of the school in the movie.)

BTW, since I'm rambling a bit, I'm really surprised that more names haven't arisen on your board. The couple times SDSU went through this in the 00's, rumors were rampant, including occasionally in the press. I recall specifically an article somebody found in the sports page of a small town rag from L.A. County in which "sources" supposedly said one of the five announced finalists to replace Chuck Long had the inside track at the job. Because I had heard from three different insiders at SDSU that we weren't going to hire anybody without head coaching experience and that guy didn't have any, I was pretty sure that was complete BS. I'm somewhat surprised none of you have heard any such things about your gig.

[FirefightnRick]

The Mizzou poster says Leavitt never hit the kid. I continue to admit I haven't fully researched it but

Hey that's perfectly understandable as your certainly not the only one. Only I feel THAT is a lot of the problem with some of the anti Leavitt camp. Very few here have actually taken the time to read the school's own report and see for themselves what a total charade the Leavitt firing was. Which to me, was over nothing but money and the fact that

the school didn't want to shell out $7 Million they owed him for the remainder of his contract, saw a chance to get out of it with this incident and ran with it.

Leavitt Documents.

The document above is 61 pages long, but the meat of it's report by the two interviewers, not investigators, is only 33 pages. And after reading through it I learned that the report lists 21 players, but there were only two, Student Athletes B and C who claim they saw Coach Leavitt grab Miller(Student Athlete A) by the throat and slap or hit him. Student Athlete M claims he recalls seeing him slap his face but doesn't mention seeing him grab Miller by the throat, instead he say's Leavitt had ahold of the players shoulder pads, which is much different than grabbing him by the throat as has been reported in the media.

The other 17 players who were interviewed either didn't see it the way Student A claims it happened or never saw it at all.

Student Athlete D

Student Athlete D said that he

saw Leavitt put a hand (maybe his right hand) “high” on Student Athlete A’s jersey, indicating

that it could have been on Student Athlete A’s throat. At this point, Student Athlete D turned his head because he “did not want to ‘catch anything himself’ or see anymore.” By the time he returned his sight to Student Athlete A, Leavitt had his hands on the side of Student Athlete A’s face, although Student Athlete D did not see Leavitt strike Student Athlete A

Student Athlete E

Student Athlete E described Leavitt as having grabbed Student Athlete A only by his

shoulder pads while exhorting Student Athlete A to “Fight your Ass! You’ve got to fight your

ass!”

Student Athlete H

Student Athlete H, the fifth name provided by Student Athlete A, was seated in the

vicinity of Student Athlete A during the halftime. He said that Student Athlete A is the kind of Student Athlete that “hangs his head when he messes up.” He remembers Student Athlete A as being non-responsive to Leavitt’s questions and Leavitt becoming frustrated with Student Athlete A’s attitude yelling, “ya’all have to get your freakin’ asses up!” He saw Leavitt “grab” Student Athlete A but is not sure if it was by the neck or by the collar of his jersey.

Student Athlete J

Student Athlete J was seated near to Student Athlete A. He saw the encounter and reported that Leavitt saw that Student Athlete A was “down,” grabbed him and said “We gotta win! You have to do a lot better!” Student Athlete J said that Leavitt grabbed Student Athlete A with his right hand on Student Athlete’s A’s neck or on shoulder pads in an area close to Student Athlete A’s neck, and was pointing at him with the other hand. Then he “tapped” Student Athlete A’s face twice “to get his attention,as if to say (Student Athlete J’s words, not Leavitt’s) “Snap out of it!” Student Athlete J thought it was “nothing too major,”

Student Athlete F

Student Athlete F is a

senior who did not see the event.

Student Athlete G

Student Athlete G is an underclassman and so was not in the main locker room.

Student Athlete I

Quote

Student Athlete I was sitting across the locker room from Student Athlete A. He saw

nothing during the halftime,...Student Athlete I spoke to Student Athlete A in the week that followed. Student Athlete A asked Student Athlete I if he had seen what Leavitt had done to him. Told no, Student Athlete A then said that Leavitt had grabbed him by the neck. But later, after the FanHouse publication, Student Athlete I said, Student Athlete A “changed up on him” and said that Leavitt had grabbed him by the shoulder

pads to motivate him.

Student Athlete K

Student Athlete K was in the locker room but used the rest room at the beginning of the period. As he traveled through the locker room, Student Athlete K heard Leavitt shouting at Student Athlete A, “Did you get your block? Did you get your block?” When he returned to the locker room, Leavitt was no longer there.

Student Athlete N

Student Athlete N was not playing in the Louisville game but he soon heard of the

incident that occurred during its halftime.

Student Athlete O

Quote

Student Athlete O did not play in the Louisville game. Student Athlete A told him about the event the Tuesday after the Louisville game..After the FanHouse article was published, Student Athlete O said that Student A told Student Athlete O “thanks a lot for ruining my career”.

Student Athlete P

According to Student Athlete P, Coach

Leavitt grabbed Student Athlete A by the shoulder pads, shook him, and told him, “fight, fight!”.

Student Athlete Q

The reviewers met with Player Q who said that he hadn’t seen anything in the locker

room during that game.

Student Athlete R

Student Athlete R told the reviewers that he was in the locker room on November 21st,

but didn’t see anything.

Student Athlete S

Student Athlete S indicated he was in the locker room on November 21st at halftime. He said that he didn’t actually see the entire “alleged incident” because his attention was focused on his position coach and their whiteboard....he saw Coach Leavitt with his hands on Student Athlete A, up around the neck area of the jersey

Student Athlete T

Quote

The reviewers spoke to Student Athlete T who had been quoted in a newspaper article on January 2, 201014. The Student Athlete indicated that he had been in the locker room during that particular halftime and was sitting in his locker but had, in fact, not witnessed the full exchange between Student Athlete A and Coach Leavitt. He recalled looking up and seeing “only what appeared to be the end of the exchange when Coach had Student Athlete A by the shoulder pads and was shaking him in order to stress that Student Athlete A needed to “get his head in the game.”

Student Athlete L

Student Athlete L said that Leavitt put his hands on Student Athlete A by his shoulder pads while speaking to him in a raised voice

Student Athlete M

Student Athlete M recounted similar facts, saying that Leavitt grabbed Student Athlete A’s jersey and was shaking Student Athlete A’s shoulder pads to motivate him. He indicated that Leavitt slapped Student Athlete A two times on the cheek to get his attention and was

holding his chin with his hand. According to Student Athlete M, this is “what coaches do” to

motivate Student Athletes.

Student Athlete U, not interviewed.

As of this past September a judge had to order USF to release non-redacted versions of investigative documents they were withholding from Leavitt's attorney's.

Also know that, the original student athlete who first reported the incident, not the player who the incident suppossedly happened to, but the very first player that opened the whole can of worms on this thing first, didn't go to the head coach or his position coaches about what he supposedly witnessed, nor did he go to the AD or someone within the school to report what he saw. NO, he went to a disgruntled, fired, ex beat reporter for the local paper/turned Blogger about what he saw. Also, know that Student Athlete A changed his story at least twice, and the report above says that during one visit the interviewers had with him he stated that he was being told what to say(feel) by the other players.

In his second interview, Student Athlete A was almost combative and very agitated. Told

of the testimony of other Student Athletes with whom he spoke about the incident, he denied

telling them what they reported to the reviewers, saying that in fact it was these other Student

Athletes who were telling Student Athlete A what he should feel.

The whole thing doesn't past the smell test to me and certainly isn't worth passing up the opportunity to get one of the most dynamic coaches of our time.

Rick

Edited November 12, 2010 by FirefightnRick

[TIgreen01]

Okay....so, do we have any idea where Leavitt's state of mind is at right now? If he was truly wronged...how does he respond? Does this affect his style going forward? Part of what makes him a good coach is his intensity.

Edited November 12, 2010 by TIgreen01

[FirefightnRick]

Okay....so, do we have any idea where Leavitt's state of mind is at right now? If he was truly wronged...how does he respond? Does this affect his style going forward? Part of what makes him a good coach is his intensity.

Great question. We know he wants to coach again and is interested in this job as well as others to the point he has admitted to even considering the lower levels, even high school. I imagine he won't ever get into a position to where he could be accused of this again? How that affects how he approaches players no one knows but I can't think he wouldn't still approach the game in the same way? He's overcome huge obstacles in the past and will find a way around this also.

Rick

[SleepingGiantsFan]

Here's a newspaper report on the Leavitt incident:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/jan/08/genshaft-leavitt-refused-admit-wrongdoing-during-m/sports-colleges-bulls/

I'd be curious to hear his version to decide whether it makes sense. My guess is Chuck Neinas will have that opportunity if he hasn't already.

Edit: Wouldn't it also be interesting to hear what Canales has to say since me must have been there too?

Edited November 13, 2010 by SleepingGiantsFan

[PlummMeanGreen]

Great question. We know he wants to coach again and is interested in this job as well as others to the point he has admitted to even considering the lower levels, even high school. I imagine he won't ever get into a position to where he could be accused of this again? How that affects how he approaches players no one knows but I can't think he wouldn't still approach the game in the same way? He's overcome huge obstacles in the past and will find a way around this also.

Rick

Leavitt built USF from scratch while we of UNT watched with amazement as they catapulted from Independent status to CUSA to Big East. Has there ever been such an NCAA flight plan done in so few years? No, there has not.

UNT could do a helluva' lot worse than Leavitt and I'm sure he would need a good Assistant HFC if that has not already been pissed away by a handful on this board.

Jim Leavitt? You can't find anyone who took a "no culture" football program all the way to the Big East in less than 10 years. What could he do for North Texas with our strategic location, a new stadium and especially with more re-alignment chatter happening now which could open up some things for us?

Problem still remains we need to get a new HFC who can salvage some of this Winter's recruiting class and then next Fall get us into some winning ways. Few schools seem to get a pass for getting in a conference w/o a need to have a winning football program and one of those happens to be a good neighbor of ours.

GMG!

[MizzouTigers]

Yeah, I have issues. The first one is that I don't like reading or listening to condescending idiots tell me how much better my _______ will be if I just do what they tell me. The second one is that I hate the University of Missouri. That about covers it for this thread.

That's OK. No one at the University of Missouri like you either. In fact, I've heard quite a few talk about how much they hate you.