Middle Tennessee (1/30/10)

[GrandGreen]

it's going to be really tough to get to 20 wins now. i think the streak is over.

NT is about as close to winning 20 as they were the last three years at this time. Remember all those 20 games season came courtesy of tournament wins. NT actually has a relatively easy schedule the rest of the regular season.

[LoveMG]

NT is about as close to winning 20 as they were the last three years at this time. Remember all those 20 games season came courtesy of tournament wins. NT actually has a relatively easy schedule the rest of the regular season.

unt had a relatively easy schedule the whole season. the rpi is too bad to help with any record less than 25 wins. the conference auto invite is our only hope.

[Mean Green Matt]

We have 8 regular season game left (7 in SBC play, 1 vs. Houston Baptist). The SBC games are against a tough FAU team, a Denver team that can't win on the road, UL Lafeyette, and then 1 game each against the current 9-13 seeds in the Sun Belt Tournament. With that schedule, it is not insane to think it is very possible to go 8-0 or 7-1 over the next 8 games. FAU is the hardest game that we have left, and even if that were to be a loss, we could still hit 20 wins, and have a 12-6 record in SBC play. Go Mean Green!

[greeninok]

unt had a relatively easy schedule the whole season. the rpi is too bad to help with any record less than 25 wins. the conference auto invite is our only hope.

The automatic bid is pretty much our only shot every year, I don't understand why people keep talking about an at large bid. We would have had to go 14-2 to have a chance at an at large bid. It's that way in the belt year in and year out.

[Censored by Laurie]

The automatic bid is pretty much our only shot every year, I don't understand why people keep talking about an at large bid. We would have had to go 14-2 to have a chance at an at large bid. It's that way in the belt year in and year out.

This.

It took a 16-2 conference record for USA to earn an at-large bid...plus wins against Mississippi State, Sandiego and a 3 OT loss to Vandy.

[Quoner]

This.

It took a 16-2 conference record for USA to earn an at-large bid...plus wins against Mississippi State, Sandiego and a 3 OT loss to Vandy.

Meh. Now if we ever make the tournament, it's only because they changed the rules. If it ain't 64, I don't want any more!

YEEHAW!!!!

[FirefightnRick]

This.

It took a 16-2 conference record for USA to earn an at-large bid...plus wins against Mississippi State, Sandiego and a 3 OT loss to Vandy.

So shouldn't we expect similar results at some point from a 10 year coach, who has the benefit of a great location to recruit in and a great facility to recruit to?

Rick

[TheTastyGreek]

So shouldn't we expect similar results at some point from a 10 year coach, who has the benefit of a great location to recruit in and a great facility to recruit to?

Rick

I love the Super Pit. It's a perfectly adequate arena, and, unlike some of our other venues, it isn't any sort of liability in recruiting.

But calling it a "great" facility isn't accurate. The best I can say for it is that, of all the 8,000+ seat arenas in the Sun Belt, the Super Pit is tied for 3rd. Maybe.

Diddle Arena and the Mitchell Center have the Pit beaten, hands down.

I don't much care for the Cajundome, personally. But objectively, every criticism I have about it applies just as accurately to the Pit. So, at best... Tied for 3rd based on personal taste.

And I've never seen the Convocation Center (ASU) or Murphy Center (MTSU). Based on pictures, I think the Murphy Center might have one up on the Pit, too.

If you're willing to go smaller than 8-10k seats... The Stephens Center is a fantastic venue.

And when you start comparing it to some of the other basketball barns out there... It doesn't stack up to most of the ones I've been lucky enough to visit in the past few years. Houston's arena is better than ours. Tech, Oklahoma State, A&M, Texas... Those are to be expected, given their financial advantages.

Rice, even though the bleacher seats suck for a fan, has a facility that works better as a recruiting tool than the Pit does. From the baseline bleachers, it's annoying. From down on the floor, that place looks phenomenal. The building as a whole is very impressive. Baylor has the worst Big 12 basketball arena I've ever seen: the Ferrell Center. And it's still bigger, newer, and nicer than the Pit.

The Pit is fine, but it's nothing spectacular compared to what else is out there. We're not dealing with an albatross like UT-Arlington and Houston Baptist... But again, we're talking about what may be the 4th or 6th best arena in the Sun Belt. It's not like a kid is going to come here over Texas or Baylor because the Pit is a sparkling gem.

The Pit is nice. I love it. It's a great place to watch a game. It's not an embarrassment, like Fouts is. But it isn't anything spectacular.

[Censored by Laurie]

So shouldn't we expect similar results at some point from a 10 year coach, who has the benefit of a great location to recruit in and a great facility to recruit to?

Rick

That USA team was the culmination of John Pelphy's recruiting strategy of bringing in as many division 1 transfers as possible so that he could move up in the coaching world...which he did with a tourney appearance the year before. 6 of the team's top 8 scorers we D-1 transfers...the other 2 were JUCOs. In this case, it panned out...however that is a huge risk and rarely leads to long term success. The next year USA went 10-8 in conference (though to be fair they had a nice run through the tourney and made the final)...this year they're currently 4-7.

As has been thoroughly explained by Tasty...we're on a similar path of a Butler or Gonzaga, schools with little to no history of basketball success who have built winning programs over the past 25 years, and at a quicker pace. Our 2 year tourney absence has seen our conference mates earn an at-large, make the sweet 16 and miss a second sweet 16 due to a buzzer-beater...lets give them a little bit of credit.

I understand how high expectations were for this season...but there is absolutly no discounting the 2 major and myriad of minor injuries this team has suffered. DJ's injury forces our best scorer to play out of position and pushes a likely redshirt candidate on to the floor early. Hogans' injury means extended minutes for a talented, but raw freshman. With all of that, we've lost only 2 games (Boise and FIU) we shouldn't have.

[Green P1]

I love the Super Pit. It's a perfectly adequate arena, and, unlike some of our other venues, it isn't any sort of liability in recruiting.

But calling it a "great" facility isn't accurate. The best I can say for it is that, of all the 8,000+ seat arenas in the Sun Belt, the Super Pit is tied for 3rd. Maybe.

Diddle Arena and the Mitchell Center have the Pit beaten, hands down.

I don't much care for the Cajundome, personally. But objectively, every criticism I have about it applies just as accurately to the Pit. So, at best... Tied for 3rd based on personal taste.

And I've never seen the Convocation Center (ASU) or Murphy Center (MTSU). Based on pictures, I think the Murphy Center might have one up on the Pit, too.

If you're willing to go smaller than 8-10k seats... The Stephens Center is a fantastic venue.

And when you start comparing it to some of the other basketball barns out there... It doesn't stack up to most of the ones I've been lucky enough to visit in the past few years. Houston's arena is better than ours. Tech, Oklahoma State, A&M, Texas... Those are to be expected, given their financial advantages.

Rice, even though the bleacher seats suck for a fan, has a facility that works better as a recruiting tool than the Pit does. From the baseline bleachers, it's annoying. From down on the floor, that place looks phenomenal. The building as a whole is very impressive. Baylor has the worst Big 12 basketball arena I've ever seen: the Ferrell Center. And it's still bigger, newer, and nicer than the Pit.

The Pit is fine, but it's nothing spectacular compared to what else is out there. We're not dealing with an albatross like UT-Arlington and Houston Baptist... But again, we're talking about what may be the 4th or 6th best arena in the Sun Belt. It's not like a kid is going to come here over Texas or Baylor because the Pit is a sparkling gem.

The Pit is nice. I love it. It's a great place to watch a game. It's not an embarrassment, like Fouts is. But it isn't anything spectacular.

We love it cause its ours.

If we're being honest with ourselves... The Pit could really use an update. Once UTA gets theirs done we'll have the 3rd nicest barn in the area.

[FirefightnRick]

The Super Pit, in my oppinion, had a much better feeling as a top basketball facility in the area when it had the score board hanging over the court. That may be just me? Many of the pro and top college facilities still have that. But comparing who we are recruiting against in the DFW area, the Super Pit has been head and shoulders above TCU, UTA and SMU. Regardless, it's more of a positive than a negative. There is no argueing that.

As for building like a Gonzaga or Butler? After next year we will have 9 seniors to replace. Considering we are giving out ships to people who couldn't guard a stop sign, among other things we lack in, and the fact this team has NEVER played any thing remotely close to a consistent solid defense, all attributed to coaching, we may be in for a very long wait. Of course, if I were in my 20's still and watching from a distance my patience and attitude may be different than it is currently?

Rick

[UNT90]

As has been thoroughly explained by Tasty...we're on a similar path of a Butler or Gonzaga, schools with little to no history of basketball success who have built winning programs over the past 25 years, and at a quicker pace.

I really wish I could save this and redress this in the next....10 years?? Or is it 15??

Will a 17-12 or 18-11 record before the tournament be considered a success? Would it have been considered a success preseaon? Is this a blip on 25 year plan screen or a sign of a program that has peaked?

So many questions. Who knows, maybe we will win out, go to the NCAA's and surprise into the round of 32. But maybe not.

I'm starting a new push for a 5 year plan, so I can still be young enough to appreciate the success once it arrives.

Don't worry, I've already given myself two -1s for this post.

[Censored by Laurie]

As for building like a Gonzaga or Butler? After next year we will have 9 seniors to replace. Considering we are giving out ships to people who couldn't guard a stop sign, among other things we lack in, and the fact this team has NEVER played any thing remotely close to a consistent solid defense, all attributed to coaching, we may be in for a very long wait. Of course, if I were in my 20's still and watching from a distance my patience and attitude may be different than it is currently?

First...read this. I know its a lot of words but it will help put in perspective for you what it takes to build a winning basketball program from next to nothing...which is essentially what JJ had to work with.

Second...we have 8 seniors to replace after the 2011 season - Dom, Josh, TT, Cam, Mangrum, Thomas, George and Shorter. We'll have a returning group of Hogans, Knox, Holman, Williams and whoever we land in 2010.

Third...if anybody ought to have patience and perspective it is the 40, 50, 60 ect. something person who should have some kind of grasp as to how bad UNT basketball has historically been. Me, I've been fortunante to only see JJ-era UNT basketball...but based on the fact that he owns exactly 1/2 of our NCAA bids and in just 8+ years of coaching has moved to second all-time in wins at UNT I feel very confident in saying that there wasn't much of a basketball tradition before my time. So thats why I'll listen to the opinions of those like Buford Julep, Cooley, untgeorge and SUMG, all of whom have high expectations, but also have enough basketball knowledge and perspective to realize that this program is in better shape than at any point during their fandom.

[FirefightnRick]

First...read this. So thats why I'll listen to the opinions of those like Buford Julep, Cooley, untgeorge and SUMG, all of whom have high expectations, but also have enough basketball knowledge and perspective to realize that this program is in better shape than at any point during their fandom.

Uh, no I doubt they all feel that way. In fact, I know one of them don't for absolutely sure, and possibly two of them.

Hey, if you and the Tasty are happy with the leveling off, fine. That's your right. I personally think we can do better and I don't see it happening any time soon. When I saw by half time how we played down to UTA this year I and everyone I was sitting with, who I have seen in their seats in the Super Pit the past 22 years, all said the same thing "Here we go again".

Rick

[CMJ]

Folks who date back to the late 70's and earlier have seen better times.

If one started following NT post 1980 or so - these are the salad days of Men's basketball. In fact for a continuous run - these might be the best four years since the 1920's. Maybe we have stalled, but it's hard to really say that for certain when we just won the most league games we ever had a year ago. If you're winning more than before - that means you're not just treading water.

Let's just wait for both- pro and con- till the end of the year okay?

Edited February 3, 2010 by CMJ

[bstnsportsfan3]

all i know..is that about 9 teams have a shot at winning this SBC tourney this season because the conference is so wide open....if we go 7-1 or 8-0 heading into the tourney i feel like we will take it all...were not a great team when we play a 7 or 8 man rotation...but if we can play mostly starters and maybe a 6 man...i see us winning the whole thing...Lets get to the NCAA's and support the team along the journey!

[calvin]

This discussion is getting so old.

This season has been a little disappointing but we also need to put things in perpective. Going into the season we thought we had our starting 5 set with Dom, JW, ET, TT, and George. I dont believe that 5 has started once this year have they ? Then we thought we would have Hogans, Holmen, Shorter, Richard, and Collin coming off the bench. I believe if we are fully healthy this year we are probably about 16-5 at this time. Instead we look out there one game and have Josh, Richard, Shannon, Holmen and George starting. Three guys that we never thought would be starting b/c of injuries. We have had to adjust to different starting lineups, chemistry, and injuries and we are still one of the top teams in the Belt and still have just as good as chance as any to win the thing. ASU to me is the only team that i have felt is more talented than we are this year but no team scares me in the SBC tourney.

[GrandGreen]

You know someone who has followed the team for decades probably has the perspective to compare one period to another in that time period. I wonder, however how someone with nothing but a record book has the background to accurately compare teams over difference periods. For instance there is a lot difference in playing in the MVC at its best and the Belt today with the currrent relatively easy oc shedules almost all teams play. Based on my time as a fan, Spika's last two years (18-8 and 15-10 in the MVC) were easily the best and Blakeley's first 3 years (only time NT was ever in top 20) were the second best basketball period. I would rate JJ's last three years the next.

[UNT90]

This discussion is getting so old.

This season has been a little disappointing but we also need to put things in perpective. Going into the season we thought we had our starting 5 set with Dom, JW, ET, TT, and George. I dont believe that 5 has started once this year have they ? Then we thought we would have Hogans, Holmen, Shorter, Richard, and Collin coming off the bench. I believe if we are fully healthy this year we are probably about 16-5 at this time. Instead we look out there one game and have Josh, Richard, Shannon, Holmen and George starting. Three guys that we never thought would be starting b/c of injuries. We have had to adjust to different starting lineups, chemistry, and injuries and we are still one of the top teams in the Belt and still have just as good as chance as any to win the thing. ASU to me is the only team that i have felt is more talented than we are this year but no team scares me in the SBC tourney.

You can't have it both ways. Depth is suppose to protect you against injuries. We were the preseason favorite to win the west because of the great depth. Arkansas St., who has had similiar injury problems, leads the west at 8-2. If they can do it, why not us? With better depth?

[calvin]

You can't have it both ways. Depth is suppose to protect you against injuries. We were the preseason favorite to win the west because of the great depth. Arkansas St., who has had similiar injury problems, leads the west at 8-2. If they can do it, why not us? With better depth?

[/quote

What do you mean ? We lost our first post player off the bench, 1 of our starting guards, Our preason first team post player for some key games. Richard Thomas has been hurt. I know injuries are part of the game but I was just calling it like it is. This team would have been a lot better this year if we had Dom and ET. Then depth wouldnt have been a problem.

[Censored by Laurie]

You can't have it both ways. Depth is suppose to protect you against injuries. We were the preseason favorite to win the west because of the great depth. Arkansas St., who has had similiar injury problems, leads the west at 8-2. If they can do it, why not us? With better depth?

ASU lost a volume shooting scorer...you can replace those considerebly easier than you can your starting point guard.

I'd make the contention that had Josh gotten hurt as opposed to Dom we'd be in much better shape.

[TheTastyGreek]

I'd make the contention that had Josh gotten hurt as opposed to Dom we'd be in much better shape.

Not sure I agree completely, but it's an interesting point to consider.

I wish we had them both. I'm sure you do, too. I miss all the complaining about height issues in our backcourt.

Of all the injury-replacement point guards playing through serious hand injuries for two years and counting... I'd say Josh White is one of the better ones out there.

[Censored by Laurie]

Not sure I agree completely, but it's an interesting point to consider.

I wish we had them both. I'm sure you do, too. I miss all the complaining about height issues in our backcourt.

Of all the injury-replacement point guards playing through serious hand injuries for two years and counting... I'd say Josh White is one of the better ones out there.

Certainly...I'd love for Dom to be on the ball 25 minutes and Josh on for 15.

ASU and FAU simply struck gold with their line-up and bench composition. For ASU, last season there was a lot of Boone and standing around of the four others on the floor watching...when Boone went down, Brady tried to have Bryant fill that scoring role...but it turned into Bryant and four watching him. When Bryant was dinged up, Brady's piece-mealed backcourt of Allison, Reed and Finn really gelled...the ball moves well and everybody is involved.

For FAU, Jarvis tried about 10 different line-ups before inserting Tucker in at the 1 and moving Taylor off the ball.

I thought JJ found something with TT off the bench...but the injuries to Thomas and Mangrum forced JJs hand into moving TT back into the starting line-up.

[UNT90]