I Love This Story...

[BIG DAWG]

This is definitely a good read...

Capper Blog Entry

[Green P1]

If I didn't know better I'd think he did not like fan message boards.

[meangreenbob]

There are a few people on this board who probably have either burned or darn near burned the bridge with some of their comments concerning Coach Dodge, RV, some of the Athletic Department employees and the departments performance in general.

I always wondered if those of you who have been publicly critical of Coach Dodge and RV, if ya'll hang out at the Athletic functions such as the cookoff, banquets etc. Like do ya'll go up to RV with a big smile on your face and put your hand out to shake his hand or do ya'll make an effort to avoid him?

How will ya'll act when Coach Dodge and RV take this program to a height that even Coach Fry could never achieve. Will ya'll expect them to deem your public ridicule as water under the bridge? Of course I believe they will.

I'll hang up and listen to your response.

[Travis]

I don't think (at least I hope I am not) one of those that are overly critical of the team.

But, I do think it is a two way street on these things. I see what he is saying and I do agree that there are better methods of input and a message board is not necessarily the place for it. However, I think it is a good place to start with getting a general feel of things. I would hope that the department is going out to others (and if that includes reading up on a message board) to get a feel for the general public's opinion on the program... especially coming from those who care so deeply about the program. Sure, we are all clueless about the goings-on and the how-to's of everything... But, it is the "us" that the program needs to have buy in. So going to the customers/constituents in any way is an important thing to do. I hope that they do check in here more than the blog lead on.

I enjoyed the read and the willingness for others to come directly to those that work in the program.

[emmitt01]

There are a few people on this board who probably have either burned or darn near burned the bridge with some of their comments concerning Coach Dodge, RV, some of the Athletic Department employees and the departments performance in general.

I always wondered if those of you who have been publicly critical of Coach Dodge and RV, if ya'll hang out at the Athletic functions such as the cookoff, banquets etc. Like do ya'll go up to RV with a big smile on your face and put your hand out to shake his hand or do ya'll make an effort to avoid him?

How will ya'll act when Coach Dodge and RV take this program to a height that even Coach Fry could never achieve. Will ya'll expect them to deem your public ridicule as water under the bridge? Of course I believe they will.

I'll hang up and listen to your response.

What would you have those with negative opinions do? Silently sit by yet make sure the check is still in the mail? Take mr. Capper's advice and pick up a phone or shoot off a vitriol filled email (especially when either would be done in the heat of the moment). Or, is it ok with you or the other sunshine boys that they continue to be amongst a VERY small number who support with both their time and money, yet air a frustration or two from time to time to the only other people who are completely "bought in" to this program? That you think these people should be unable to shake the hand of our AD, as if a "blacklist" can even be afforded at this juncture, is both counter-intuitive and laughable. No, rather it is quite obvious that these people are doing exactly what they should be doing by "bitching" amongst the only receptive and interested audience there is...those who also contribute and care to see this program rise and won't tolerate mediocrity. If this is ill-received up at the athletic center then my concerns about us ever being big time are now exponentially larger because we are being led by people with an inability to recognize frustrations from those who actually show up on Fall Saturdays as venting and nothing more.

Edited August 9, 2009 by emmitt01

[LoveMG]

How will ya'll act when Coach Dodge and RV take this program to a height that even Coach Fry could never achieve.

sure bob. right now it ranks as the worst ever in north texas athletic history. how long before it's better than fry's era?

[LoveMG]

This is definitely a good read...

Capper Blog Entry

he's still clueless why people who have complained directly to athletics about issues and received no help make such comments on a message board. think about it sam.

[untcampbell]

Lessons for meangreenbob:

1) If anything remotely positive happens for North Texas, do not gloat. If you do, you will be called on the carpet, tarred and feathered and publicly humiliated.

2) Never, and I mean EVER, project future positivity with the current regime. Let it happen, then see Lesson 1.

But, GMG.

Edited August 9, 2009 by untcampbell

[MeanMag]

Many organizations, both public and private, inside and outside the business world, would kill to have such a compact and real-time barometric tool to gauge the performance of their work by their target demographic's opinions. It also helps them to be more productive in their jobs and focus efforts on building the brand. Brand Name is everything in college sports. Many of these posters/patrons follow the eagle logo wherever it goes no matter the quality of the product. Many of the opinions expressed on this board are a very good cross section of the problems the fan base is having, even if they don't post etc. The way I see it, there are 3 types of fans.

1. The people who are passionate/enraged and care enough to make the effort write personal letters/emails directly.

2. The people who are enraged or care enough to post on a fan message board in anonymity.

3. The people who will never do either of the above and walk away when they are upset with performance or presentation, never to be heard from once, or again - ever.

The worst type of feedback is no feedback.

In the above model, it is hardest for an individual to move from 3 to 1 or from 1 to 3, easiest for an individual to move from one number to the next, sequentially. So, the athletic dept needs to view this board as a great gauge/promotional tool for the majority users of their product, and whether or not they are slipping from one category to the next, namely 2 to 3, and if they care enough to make posts here or write personal letters/emails directly.

Edited August 10, 2009 by MeanMag

[untcampbell]

MeanMag, I can't say I disagree with your fan type assessment (you must be a mktg grad), but I still wonder about the fan that punishes the entire program (by not supporting) because they have their panties in a wad about one or two events, people or perception that they are not treated well.

But, GMG.

[LoveMG]

winning is for sissie programs. we should just be happy happy happy. who cares the scores. we still have teams willing to play us too. happy happy happy

[UNT_playmaker]

sure bob. right now it ranks as the worst ever in north texas athletic history. how long before it's better than fry's era?

Greatness

[UNT_playmaker]

No but seriously, I have always been the Mean Green Fan who has been looking for the big upset win for UNT and always think UNT might have a possibility in the first game of the new season, for years I thought we could knock off a SEC or Big 12 team and catch them on an off game. BUt for the first time, I have no optimism for this happening and for the season.

I truly believe this is Dodge's last season, if it isnt and he is brough back for a fourth season, then that will be RVs last season along with Dodge. Sorry but this has been an awful off-season for the Mean Green.

Remember our QB Vizza, he was a junior and had been hand picked by Dodge and knows his system better than anyone else, when goes off and transfers and leaves after the second season and doesnt want anything to do with Dodge or his system at UNT, it tells you something is wrong and that he doesnt want to be around for that third season to see it through.

Nobody took a worst beating than Vizza, man I felt sorry for the guy. In nearly all of our games even home games, we got loopsided in our losses, thats not supposed to happen in our backyard, not every game.

Alot of people on this board have been critical of this coach and this system for a reason, they see flaws, Vizza say flaws, our fans see them, heck RV the other day said that we can't continue to lose game by a marginal amount, we had to be close in games that we lost, and we never have these past two season.

If anyone thinks that they know for a fact things will be different, please post your thoughts.

[meangreenbob]

What would you have those with negative opinions do? Silently sit by yet make sure the check is still in the mail? Take mr. Capper's advice and pick up a phone or shoot off a vitriol filled email (especially when either would be done in the heat of the moment). Or, is it ok with you or the other sunshine boys that they continue to be amongst a VERY small number who support with both their time and money, yet air a frustration or two from time to time to the only other people who are completely "bought in" to this program? That you think these people should be unable to shake the hand of our AD, as if a "blacklist" can even be afforded at this juncture, is both counter-intuitive and laughable. No, rather it is quite obvious that these people are doing exactly what they should be doing by "bitching" amongst the only receptive and interested audience there is...those who also contribute and care to see this program rise and won't tolerate mediocrity. If this is ill-received up at the athletic center then my concerns about us ever being big time are now exponentially larger because we are being led by people with an inability to recognize frustrations from those who actually show up on Fall Saturdays as venting and nothing more.

Where did you graduate from friend? Where did I say or even suggest in my post that those critical of this coaching staff or Athletic Department should be unable to shake the hand the AD? Don't be so defensive.

What's really "laughable" is that some on this board actually think that they are wiser and smarter than those in charge. There are some who stick their chest out in a self-indulging way while publicly blasting the program, "hey look at me, see how smart I am." "I can do a better job then these clowns."

Some of us who have been following this program for 39 years or longer can recognize where we have been, where we want to go and what it will take to get us there and we know that it will not happen overnight. We had "nothing" to build on. We have never ever taken the time to build a program the right way, from the foundation up until recently. We have never had a strong, solid foundation that will insure us years of success. NEVER!

I admire what RV has done with little to nothing. This man started changing the climate one shirt at a time. What he has done for UNT, not just Athletics is to be adimired!

Coach Dodge is the real thing. Those who have enjoyed criticizing him over the last two years "for their own ego's" will be the same one's who cry like little babies when he leaves for greener pastures. And of course, these same babies will also be the ones who claim credit for his success because without their public criticism how would Coach Dodge have ever learned how to coach. Go figure.

Although most of the last 39 have been painful, I feel extemely confident that this program has the right people in place and the right plan in place that will elevate UNT and it's Athelics to a level that exceeds our dreams and expectations.

**DELETED FAIL LINE** --the mgmt

[stebo]

Alex/Playmaker,

If you think that RV is going anywhere - hand over that pipe you are toking on. Sure, let's fire the AD that finally got a stadium built (the largest athletic project in the school's history) - and fire him while construction is going on to boot. I mean - come on man, football wins and losses are important, but what RV has done here is beyond greatness. I wouldn't be surprised if they named the damn thing after him by the time it is all said and done. And contrary to popular belief - Dodge was WANTED by the fans. Just go back on THIS BOARD and read the comments. He was also all that we could afford as we were buying out Dickey's contract. Dodge came in at a lower salary than Dickey left at. Why all the high school coaches? Part Dodge - part BUDGET. We had a certain amount to pay and Dodge (given that he had about 2 weeks to get an entire staff together for recruiting season) could either choose men that he had worked with for 10+ years or roll the dice on strangers from interviews. Hell, on paper - some coaches look "ok" - but when you really get to know him you wouldn't hire them or want to work with them. Dodge put them all on one year contracts and a couple worked out while most didn't. He has had time to get in some more experienced coaches now. It was a mistake - but do you not remember the press conference when Coach Dodge was hired? This fan base (and this message board) was Pumped Up! I had never watched a down of SLC football so I didn't have an opinion. I was just happy that Dickey was gone. Maybe the jubilation was half a sigh of relief that Dickey was finally gone and another group was happy to get Dodge after Rice and Tulsa had chased him for positions as well.

I get where you are coming from as far as this is the year being make it or break it - either show improvement or get canned. That might mean wins, it might mean not getting beat by 45 points, whatever.. but improvement (expecially with this schedule) is EXPECTED. If the improvement is not there, it is time for Dodge to go somewhere else. But RV is not going anywhere for a long time unless HE decides to leave. And honestly, Dodge should have that improvement this year. It will probably be to the tune of 4 or 5 wins, tops... but it will be there. We won't beat an athletic budget of $80 million like you hope for, but we might be able to squeak one out against Army. Our fan base seems to have champagne tastes on a beer budget. If we would all give more than we could expect those wins against big time auto bid schools. Until then... we just have to remember our wins over Baylor, SMU, etc... those are our "big" wins for our generation. Fans from the 70's get to remember the Fry wins over Tennessee and Okie State and the like... but those were different times.

Peace out,

Steve

Edited August 10, 2009 by stebo

[mad dog]

I think MeanMag is right on.

I know there's a lot of people attached to the Athletic Department and University and local media who roll their eyes when gmg.com is brought up. Right or wrong, we are painted as a group of immature, spoiled malcontents who offer uninformed opinions based on little or no evidence, spend a lot of time pretending we know what is going on, and knee-jerking at the first sign of trouble.

Even if you somehow buy that line, explain to me how this isn't the quickest and best marketing and promotions barometer available for the Athletics Department? How many companies would kill for a thriving online community like this: where, at any given point, you can see what your most consistent consumers feel about your product? In real-time? For free?

It is a great tool. It just needs to be viewed in the proper context.

[forevereagle]

I think MeanMag is right on.

I know there's a lot of people attached to the Athletic Department and University and local media who roll their eyes when gmg.com is brought up. Right or wrong, we are painted as a group of immature, spoiled malcontents who offer uninformed opinions based on little or no evidence, spend a lot of time pretending we know what is going on, and knee-jerking at the first sign of trouble.

Even if you somehow buy that line, explain to me how this isn't the quickest and best marketing and promotions barometer available for the Athletics Department? How many companies would kill for a thriving online community like this: where, at any given point, you can see what your most consistent consumers feel about your product? In real-time? For free?

It is a great tool. It just needs to be viewed in the proper context.

Let's tap the brakes on that. Please do not consider this group to be a representative sample. As with any online poll or call-in poll or anything of that nature, only the most passionate people from either side of an issue actually participate. Those that have a moderate opinion usually do not participate in these kinds of activities. Look at any thread on this board and you can see this behavior in action. There are a lot of threads that do not have a response from most of the people who are active on the board. If someone does not have a strong opinion on something, they don't post. Case in point, me. I usually read threads and only post if I feel like I have something to contribute, usually a smart ass remark that is only funny to me. There are a lot of fans that do not post on this board at all and we should not consider that the representation on this board projects to the whole of the UNT fan base. This is an opt-in board, and in order to opt-in, you have to know what you are looking for.

[mad dog]

Let's tap the brakes on that. Please do not consider this group to be a representative sample. As with any online poll or call-in poll or anything of that nature, only the most passionate people from either side of an issue actually participate. Those that have a moderate opinion usually do not participate in these kinds of activities. Look at any thread on this board and you can see this behavior in action. There are a lot of threads that do not have a response from most of the people who are active on the board. If someone does not have a strong opinion on something, they don't post. Case in point, me. I usually read threads and only post if I feel like I have something to contribute, usually a smart ass remark that is only funny to me. There are a lot of fans that do not post on this board at all and we should not consider that the representation on this board projects to the whole of the UNT fan base. This is an opt-in board, and in order to opt-in, you have to know what you are looking for.

Where I can find a better, quicker, and cheaper barometer?

It might not be a representative sample of all people who are connected with UNT. But I think you can find a pretty good representative sample of those who are buying your product. Current fans, potential fans, alumni, students, faculty, parents, Denton residents: you can find all of them here. Or is there another overaching demographic that I'm missing?

[LongJim]

Or is there another overaching demographic that I'm missing?

I think this is definitely an "overaching" demographic.

[forevereagle]

Where I can find a better, quicker, and cheaper barometer?

It might not be a representative sample of all people who are connected with UNT. But I think you can find a pretty good representative sample of those who are buying your product. Current fans, potential fans, alumni, students, faculty, parents, Denton residents: you can find all of them here. Or is there another overaching demographic that I'm missing?

This board is pretty polarized. I don't know that it is representative of the people who are buying the product. Like I said, these here are the most passionate. We are going to be there no matter what happens, for the most part. So while our opinions are important, the whole story is not told here. There are a lot of other people who factor in that are not represented. The vocal minority should not tell you the best direction for a product. This board should give you a direction to look, but you should dig deeper before you make a decision.

[Arkstfan]

Message boards are the single most important place for an athletic department to have their eyes and ears.

It is where the converts are, those who are true believers. If you don't have the true believers behind what you are doing no amount of investment in billboards, radio or television will move a program forward. If the people who are your regular ticket buyers and donors and are committed to the program are having a customer service issue that they have struggled to resolve, how many dollars have been lost when a person with a lower level of interest just said screw it when they encountered a similar problem.

Fans rant and rave are polarized into camps. How is that different than anything else? I honestly believe that every or dang near every member of Congress wants to leave better United States government at the end of their term than it was when they arrived. Now they agree little on what "better" would look like and everyone on here would find ways to disagree with dang near any of them, and they certainly have times when they feel compelled to swallow their best intents in order to be able to get the votes or the money in order to get another term to try to win some battles but down deep they aren't as evil as we'd like to think. Same with message boards. The fans want to win every game they just aren't going to agree on the schedule, recruiting or game plan to work to that goal. That doesn't make them bad.

Anyway, a long blog post on the column. http://www.beltboard.com/?p=260

[forevereagle]

Message boards are the single most important place for an athletic department to have their eyes and ears.

It is where the converts are, those who are true believers. If you don't have the true believers behind what you are doing no amount of investment in billboards, radio or television will move a program forward. If the people who are your regular ticket buyers and donors and are committed to the program are having a customer service issue that they have struggled to resolve, how many dollars have been lost when a person with a lower level of interest just said screw it when they encountered a similar problem.

Fans rant and rave are polarized into camps. How is that different than anything else? I honestly believe that every or dang near every member of Congress wants to leave better United States government at the end of their term than it was when they arrived. Now they agree little on what "better" would look like and everyone on here would find ways to disagree with dang near any of them, and they certainly have times when they feel compelled to swallow their best intents in order to be able to get the votes or the money in order to get another term to try to win some battles but down deep they aren't as evil as we'd like to think. Same with message boards. The fans want to win every game they just aren't going to agree on the schedule, recruiting or game plan to work to that goal. That doesn't make them bad.

Anyway, a long blog post on the column. http://www.beltboard.com/?p=260

I am not saying that message boards are bad and that the AD shouldn't keep an eye on what is going on here, but that this is not the voice of the masses. There are around 20,000 fans who come to games and around 200 that are active here. The people who are on this board are the "true believers" and therefore more opinionated than most. You are selling a product to 20,000 and not just 200.

[Arkstfan]

I concede that.

You can't make a living off the true believers, you've got to have bandwagon fans. But I don't understand why athletic departments don't make message boards an integral part of their business plan. I had an issue with ASU where I called and left a message wanting to give them money and they didn't return my call. I persisted and finally made them take my money. There is no telling how much money has been lost because the majority who aren't true believers felt no compulsion to follow up. By monitoring message board talk you can find out in a hurry if you are delivering good customer service because the true believers complain, its what we do best.

[Guest JohnDenver]

I am not saying that message boards are bad and that the AD shouldn't keep an eye on what is going on here, but that this is not the voice of the masses. There are around 20,000 fans who come to games and around 200 that are active here. The people who are on this board are the "true believers" and therefore more opinionated than most. You are selling a product to 20,000 and not just 200.

My hunch is that though there may be ~200 (entirely a guess on your part) active members on GMG, each one of those 20,000 fans at the game are DIRECTLY tied to a person who posts on this board. They use one of the people on this board as their life-line to UNT football.

Every week one of my friends sends me a message asking about UNT football and not a one of them are registered here. Same goes for my mother's boyfriend (who attends the games), he uses me to gauge his expectations before going to the games.

It would be a lot different if all 200 of us were friends with each other and only talked to each other. I am really only friends IRL with one other person on this board and mostly we talk about how he is a nazi and I am a genius. However, this site represents more than 20 people who attend the games and use me for information, since I am a "true believer."

[Arkstfan]

I can name 10 people right now who hold ASU season tickets who have either never visited The Den or do so very infrequently who regularly contact me about what is happening with the program. There are another handful of people who I don't know who they are who reposting stuff on Facebook and using like tags on my articles that get scrapped by an ASU fan group on facebook.

200 people can easily influence 2,000 directly and indirectly 20,000 is a piece of cake.