Rating NT in the Belt

[GrandGreen]

North Texas Sun Belt Sports

It seems that NT is having a off year in most sports even based on Sun Belt standards. Below is how I would rate the NT teams in Sun Belt competition without a lot of analysis. What are others’ thoughts on the overall Belt performance since NT joined the league?

Top of the Hill

Obviously, NT has dominated in football despite last year’s fiasco. Four champions in five years and a 26 (?) game-wining streak is impossible to argue with.

NT also has been dominating in Soccer, I think playing in every championship game and winning both the regular season and the tournament the last two years.

Middle of the Road

Women basketball, early success in Belt but struggling since despite a Western Division wining 7-5 last year, getting routed in first tournament game. Other teams seem to be leaving NT behind.

Volleyball, good competitive team with Marginas (sp) early and last years team improved.

Track/cross country – Women’s track teams would probably be rated in top of conference but men’s teams and cross country have not been very successful in recent years. Both women and men’s track teams seem to be improving.

Golf- seems to stay in middle of pack in both women and men teams.

Bottom

Swimming is good for title IX and academic performance, but totally non-competitive in the pool.

Tennis is turning into a disaster despite having new facilities.

Softball now in its fourth year has not made the progress that was hoped for. An aside how can you field a team with only one viable pitcher?

Men’s basketball has never been a significant factor in the Belt race.

[DeepGreen]

Hard to disagree with you. Aside from a few questionable coaches, I question whether NT budgets enough funds for recruiting. Has anyone analyzed the data on recruiting from the recent post/news article that appeared here a week or so ago on revenues and expenses of D1 schools? It would be interesting to see how much NT spends, by sport and overall, compared to our peers from the Sun Belt, MAC, WAC, and CUSA conferences.

[LongJim]

Hard to disagree with you.  Aside from a few questionable coaches, I question whether NT budgets enough funds for recruiting.  Has anyone analyzed the data on recruiting from the recent post/news article that appeared here a week or so ago on revenues and expenses of D1 schools?  It would be interesting to see how much NT spends, by sport and overall, compared to our peers from the Sun Belt, MAC, WAC, and CUSA conferences.

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I took a look at the recruiting, and I believe that UNT was midway budgetwise, with one of the Florida U teams waaay ahead something like $215K to next closest at about $80K? Those aren't exact figures...

[meangreen11]

Good post. It's hard to bag on tennis because we haven't yet to see positive effects of the new tennis center. Football has been a powerhouse despite a down year. Men's Basketball has been a huge disappointment period. Womens basketball has been ok although their tourney performance has been poor. Mens golf and track have been fairly decent. Womens track has been exceptional. Women's softball has been horrible and should have been a much stronger team by now.

To me a lot of the coaches we have hired have not developed their respective programs to their full potential.

[Guest GrayEagleOne]

Hard to disagree with you.  Aside from a few questionable coaches, I question whether NT budgets enough funds for recruiting.  Has anyone analyzed the data on recruiting from the recent post/news article that appeared here a week or so ago on revenues and expenses of D1 schools?  It would be interesting to see how much NT spends, by sport and overall, compared to our peers from the Sun Belt, MAC, WAC, and CUSA conferences.

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This is likely a different report than Long Jim saw, but the Recruiting Expenses listed on the DOE report would indicate that North Texas is next to last in the Sun Belt alone. Following are the recruiting expenses reported by each Sun Belt School (football-playing only):

UNIVERSITY TOTAL MEN WOMEN

Florida Atlantic $284,826 $212,377 $72,444

Middle Tennessee 265,628 200,066 65,562

Florida International 260,580 184,787 75,793

Arkansas State 186,149 131,614 54,535

Troy 179,480 120,352 59,123

Louisiana-Lafayette 167,894 132,741 35,153

North Texas 149,579 88,035 61,544

Louisiana-Monroe 102,186 55,477 46,909

[flyonthewall]

Money is not the only determinant in the success of recruiting. We are close to a two large cities with the Houston and Austin areas not far away. Recruiting is for a large part based on a good plan, and good organization. With our facilities we should be able to out recruit other Sun Belt teams. Which would you rather be? Murphreesboro 45 minutes from Nashville, or us 30 minutes from a major airport, two major cities, pro football, pro baseball, pro basketball, and great new facilities for all sports, with the exception of basketball whose locker rooms have been remodeled with a great venue in the Super Pit.

[LoveMG]

  Football has been a powerhouse despite a down year. 

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[Travis]

Our coaches show very little effort in recruiting.

[DeepGreen]

Following are the recruiting expenses reported by each Sun Belt School (football-playing only):

UNIVERSITY                    TOTAL           MEN            WOMEN

Florida Atlantic                $284,826      $212,377      $72,444

Middle Tennessee              265,628       200,066        65,562

Florida International          260,580        184,787        75,793

Arkansas State                 186,149        131,614        54,535

Troy                                 179,480       120,352        59,123

Louisiana-Lafayette            167,894       132,741        35,153

North Texas                       149,579        88,035        61,544

Louisiana-Monroe               102,186        55,477        46,909

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GrayEagleOne, do you have the link to the DOE report? Those are some significant differences even by lowly Sun Belt standards. I'd like to see what other athletic depts. from SMU, Tulsa, La Tech, UTEP, So. Miss, Memphis, UAB, etc., budget for athletics. It would also be interesting how much is spent on just football, men and womens basketball.

Edited April 15, 2006 by DeepGreen

[MeanGreen61]

GrayEagleOne, do you have the link to the DOE report? Those are some significant differences even by lowly Sun Belt standards.  I'd like to see what other athletic depts. from SMU, Tulsa, La Tech, UTEP, So. Miss, Memphis, UAB, etc., budget for athletics.  It would also be interesting how much is spent on just football, men and womens basketball.

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http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Search.asp

[meangreen11]

My powerhouse comment was directed to the Sun Belt which was the context of this thread you moron.

[DeepGreen]

My powerhouse comment was directed to the Sun Belt which was the context of this thread you moron.

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Was this directed at me? If it was, I'll accept an apology from you and let it be. If being a powerhouse in the Sun Belt Conference is all you aspire for NT, then we might as well forget about moving up in conferences and possibly drop to 1AA. Frankly, I want to move up in the food chain, and when you are next to last in recruiting funds in the worst D1A conference in the country then your chances of remaining the "powerhouse" of the SBC will be remote. God forbid we try to improve out conference affiliation.

[GreenEddieNT]

Athletic Budgets

Follow that link to see the athletic budgets for all Division I schools.

[MeanGreen61]

Bubas Cup final standings

2003-04

1. Middle Tennessee

t2. North Texas

t2.WKU

4. ULL

5. South Alabama

6. NMSU

7. UALR

8.Arkansas State

9.Florida International

10.Denver

11. New Orleans

2004-05

1. Middle Tennessee

2. WKU

3. ULL

4. South Alabama

5. North Texas

6. NMSU

7. FIU

8. Arkansas State

9. Denver

10.UALR

11. New Orleans

Edited April 15, 2006 by MeanGreen61

[untbowler]

Good post.  It's hard to bag on tennis because we haven't yet to see positive effects of the new tennis center.  Football has been a powerhouse despite a down year.  Men's Basketball has been a huge disappointment period.  Womens basketball has been ok although their tourney performance has been poor.  Mens golf and track have been fairly decent.  Womens track has been exceptional.    Women's softball has been horrible and should have been a much stronger team by now. 

To me a lot of the coaches we have hired have not developed their respective programs to their full potential.

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Have to disagree with you on the tennis front. they were doing ok for the last 7-10 years and if anything the new tennis center should have already brought recruits in. I think it has to deal with coaching and also where they are allowed to recruit.

[statefanatic]

ARK. STATE had its best recruiting class this year after going to the NO BOWL. NT went four years in a roll and i haven't seen any benefits in recruiting. i guees it could be the money spent on recruiting is next to last in the conf. what i am saying is don't blame the sun belt or your coaches for lack of progress. if you want to win you got to spend the money.

[FirefightnRick]

ARK. STATE had its best recruiting class this year after going to the NO BOWL.

Means nothing come game time.

NT went four years in a roll and i haven't seen any benefits in recruiting. i guees it could be the money spent on recruiting is next to last in the conf.

How do you know that those who sat out last year for NT won't come back and whip your ass this year? You don't. Remember that little 53-28 setback we had to you in '00? Most of that same team came back with a 45-0 pasting of ASU the very next season in '01 and never lost to you again.

what i am saying is don't blame the sun belt or your coaches for lack of progress. if you want to win you got to spend the money.

I have to say that the blame falls on all of us, but we spent much less money recruiting, and had much less in facilities to recruit to back when the classes of '99 and '00 were brought in that set the stage for 26 straight conference wins. ALL I'M SAYING IS.....all streaks end. How we rebound will be the true test.

Rick

[MeanGreen61]

ARK. STATE had its best recruiting class this year after going to the NO BOWL. NT went four years in a roll and i haven't seen any benefits in recruiting. i guees it could be the money spent on recruiting is next to last in the conf. what i am saying is don't blame the sun belt or your coaches for lack of progress. if you want to win you got to spend the money.

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Four years in a "roll" Yep, we were on a roll and did go 4 years in a ROW and have NEVER had the highest ranked recruit class in the conference. Hmmmm. One winning season and one bowl trip in the five years of Sun Belt football and suddenly Arkansas State is the Godzilla of the conference........WOW !

[statefanatic]

Four years in a "roll" Yep, we were on a roll and did go 4 years in a ROW and have NEVER had the highest ranked recruit class in the conference. Hmmmm.  One winning season and one bowl trip in the five years of Sun Belt football and suddenly Arkansas State is the Godzilla of the conference........WOW !    

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Didn't say we owned the Sunbelt. Just saying other schools in the belt are spending more money and are catching up and passing NT. I also mentioned your FOUR year run. yes NT beat ASU in the past pretty bad as well as other teams in the belt but, not even 4 bowls in a row has boosted your talent as was seen last season. i do believe every team in the belt finished ahead of NT except FAU which was new to the conference. Yes streaks do get broken, but they usually end with 1 loss not with 5.

Edited April 17, 2006 by statefanatic

[Eagle1855]

Didn't say we owned the Sunbelt. Just saying other schools in the belt are spending more money and are catching up and passing NT. I also mentioned your FOUR year run. yes NT beat ASU in the past pretty bad as well as other teams in the belt but, not even 4 bowls in a row has boosted your talent as was seen last season. i do believe every team in the belt finished ahead of NT except FAU which was new to the conference. Yes streaks do get broken, but they usually end with 1 loss not with 5.

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If by "everyone catching up to us and passing us by" you mean everyone "pasting" us with 3 and 7 point "ass beatings" during our down year, i feel pretty good about 2006. We fielded the worst team, with less experience than we have had in years and still managed to somehow stay in every game we played (including your "power house" from Groansboro) with this new "world beater" sun belt conference you guys have formed in our absence.

Thank you for your posts, however, as I am finally looking forward to playing (and beating the ass of) someone in the Sun Belt conference. Who woulda thunk it?

Edited April 17, 2006 by Eagle1855

[statefanatic]

i hope NT comes up with a big year. i would rather us play a good NT team than a down NT team. this way we can measure our teams talent.this shall be a good year in the belt with plenty of good games.

[TIgreen01]

So....just one honest question in all of this. Wouldn't NT's recruiting costs naturally be less than most every school in the Sun Belt? Being as close to Dallas, Houston, Austin, Oklahoma as we are, not much would need to be spent on travel costs....or am I missing something? What all goes into the recruiting budget? I would think that the biggest thing that would cause your costs to go up would be to send more coaches (than another school) out on the road or recruiting farther away....do we know how these numbers actually break down?

oh...forgot to mention that asu sucks!

Edited April 17, 2006 by TIgreen01

[UNTLifer]

i hope NT comes up with a big year. i would rather us play a good NT team than a down NT team. this way we can measure our teams talent.this shall be a good year in the belt with plenty of good games.

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You played a down NT team last year and only won by 7. I would think playing a "good" NT team would worry you.

[MeanGreen61]

You played a down NT team last year and only won by 7.  I would think playing a "good" NT team would worry you.

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UNT 45 ASU 0, UNT 13 ASU 10, UNT 58 ASU 14 (& the grenade ,UNT 31 ASU 7 before ASU finally wins one by 7 vs the weakest UNT team in several years.

[Green Lantern]

ASU had a pretty good team last year...but let's not forget that ULL was playing the best football in the Belt by the end of last year...so the ASU fanatics may want to tap the brakes on how great they were last year and how that will translate to this year.

And as has been pointed out many times in the thread...NT was horribly down last year by our standards (over the last 5 years) and still managed to be "in" every conference game that we played. We won't be dealing with as much inexperience at key positions as last year...so expect NT to be significantly better this year.