UT fan's comment

[mad dog]

I chatted with a friend last week who is a 2001 graduate of the University of Texas, bemoaning our 2-9 season. I told him how I could not believe that we lost to so many bad teams by such a wide margin, and that we lost all the respect and momentum we had gained from a great four year run through the Sun Belt.

Here’s what he said:

“Even if you won out, people might notice, but no one would care. The difference between winning and losing for you in the Sun Belt might look huge to you, but, to everyone else in D-1 sports, it isn’t even noteworthy. If no one noticed when you were winning conference championships, why on Earth would they notice when you lost?

You act like you were going from a national championship season to the bottom of your conference. Matt, if you’re talking about respect, your team’s season was one game long. If you beat LSU, people might start to talk. Otherwise…

Beat K-State? You mean the 5-6 team that finished last in the pitifully poor Big 12 North?

Beat Louisiana Tech? The team that is fourth in the WAC ahead of three former Sun Belt teams, including winless New Mexico State, 3-8 San Jose State, and 4-7 Hawaii?

Beat Tulsa? The team that is leading C-USA west with a 7-4 record?

If you go 10-1 this season, you lose, because everyone expects the team with the back to back rushing champions to dominate. Either the teams you beat are inferior and you’re supposed to win, or YOU are inferior to some very weak teams. Like it or not, this was a lose/lose season for you guys. It might suck, but that’s the case for all mid-major teams. Look at what TCU has done, but they’re gone because they lost their composure for one game. You can’t be 10-1 or 9-2 in a non-BCS conference and expect anything but a middle of the road bowl game.

In fact, I suspect that even if you had somehow found a way to beat LSU, people wouldn’t be talking about you; they’d be talking about how LSU managed to stumble. You wouldn’t be star of the show, you’d be the “other guy” who won because LSU sucked, and not through any virtue of your own.

The perception of you guys by most outsiders is of a great team that probably has no business being in Division I-A football. Until you start to beat some top tier teams, not just good teams, not just BCS teams, but guys that can legitimately win the National Title, no one will notice, and no one will care. To quote Ric Flair, ‘To be the man, you’ve got to beat the man. Whooo!’”

What do you guys think about that?

[ipEAGLE]

Untill we start winning out of conference games on a consistent basis no one will take us seriously.

[GreenEddieNT]

I chatted with a friend last week who is a 2001 graduate of the University of Texas, bemoaning our 2-9 season.  I told him how I could not believe that we lost to so many bad teams by such a wide margin, and that we lost all the respect and momentum we had gained from a great four year run through the Sun Belt.

Here’s what he said:

“Even if you won out, people might notice, but no one would care.  The difference between winning and losing for you in the Sun Belt might look huge to you, but, to everyone else in D-1 sports, it isn’t even noteworthy.  If no one noticed when you were winning conference championships, why on Earth would they notice when you lost?

You act like you were going from a national championship season to the bottom of your conference.  Matt, if you’re talking about respect, your team’s season was one game long.  If you beat LSU, people might start to talk.  Otherwise…

Beat K-State?  You mean the 5-6 team that finished last in the pitifully poor Big 12 North?

Beat Louisiana Tech? The team that is fourth in the WAC ahead of three former Sun Belt teams, including winless New Mexico State,  3-8 San Jose State, and 4-7 Hawaii?

Beat Tulsa?  The team that is leading C-USA west with a 7-4 record?

If you go 10-1 this season, you lose, because everyone expects the team with the back to back rushing champions to dominate.  Either the teams you beat are inferior and you’re supposed to win, or YOU are inferior to some very weak teams.  Like it or not, this was a lose/lose season for you guys.  It might suck, but that’s the case for all mid-major teams.  Look at what TCU has done, but they’re gone because they lost their composure for one game.  You can’t be 10-1 or 9-2 in a non-BCS conference and expect anything but a middle of the road bowl game.

In fact, I suspect that even if you had somehow found a way to beat LSU, people wouldn’t be talking about you; they’d be talking about how LSU managed to stumble.  You wouldn’t be star of the show, you’d be the “other guy” who won because LSU sucked, and not through any virtue of your own.

The perception of you guys by most outsiders is of a great team that probably has no business being in Division I-A football.  Until you start to beat some top tier teams, not just good teams, not just BCS teams, but guys that can legitimately win the National Title, no one will notice, and no one will care.  To quote Ric Flair, ‘To be the man, you’ve got to beat the man.  Whooo!’”

What do you guys think about that?

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No offence but your friend is a stupid imbecile. For example TCU would be the 2nd best team in the Big-12 this season. They wouldn't have been playing for the national championship but if we use those standards then most of the Big-12 and in fact most of the BCS teams are garbage as well.

Edited November 28, 2005 by GreenEddieNT

[Green92]

We would have been noticed if we had beat LSU. Less if we had beaten K-State, but some. The others a little notice.

[GreenEddieNT]

We would have been noticed if we had beat LSU.   Less if we had beaten K-State, but some.    The others a little notice.

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No kidding. If we had beaten LSU in Baton Rouge we would have accomplished something that even this year's longhorn team would probably not be able to do.

Edited November 28, 2005 by GreenEddieNT

[Michael Scott]

No offence but your friend is a stupid imbecile.  For example TCU would be the 2nd best team in the Big-12 this season.  They wouldn't have been playing for the national championship but if we use those standards then most of the Big-12 and in fact most of the BCS teams are garbage as well.

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I know this is a futile exercise in transitive logic with many flaws, but a 5-6 A&M team hung 60+ on the SMU that beat TCU. TCU got Oklahoma at the best time and it was a huge signature win for them that will linger for years, but that does not mean they go through the Big XII 6-2 or 7-1.

[ipEAGLE]

I know this is a futile exercise in transitive logic with many flaws, but a 5-6 A&M team hung 60+ on the SMU that beat TCU. TCU got Oklahoma at the best time and it was a huge signature win for them that will linger for years, but that does not mean they go through the Big XII 6-2 or 7-1.

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Great post.

[GreenEddieNT]

I know this is a futile exercise in transitive logic with many flaws, but a 5-6 A&M team hung 60+ on the SMU that beat TCU. TCU got Oklahoma at the best time and it was a huge signature win for them that will linger for years, but that does not mean they go through the Big XII 6-2 or 7-1.

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TCU beat Oklahoma convincingly in Norman. Texas Tech needed horrible officiating just to barely pull out a win at home against that same Oklahoma team and TT is supposed to be the 2nd best Big-12 team.

[ipEAGLE]

And....SMU beat TCU... A&M beat SMU by 60. Your reasoning is not sound.

[Michael Scott]

TCU beat Oklahoma convincingly in Norman.  Texas Tech needed horrible officiating just to barely pull out a win at home against that same Oklahoma team and TT is supposed to be the 2nd best Big-12 team.

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My point is not to rank the Big XII - they are in their worst year in forever and I don't care who sits where. But, if you take an 8 game schedule against Big XII teams, how can you forecast TCU to win 6 or 7 games? You pick TCU @ Tech, or Nebraska, or Colorado, or even A&M as wins?

I hate to play the barely beat game, but you set it up:

The Oklahoma game was not "convincing," it was a big win and a great one for them, but it came down to the last possession. OU rebuilt this year, if they lined up and played again after figuring out who they are as a team would you still pick TCU to beat them next week? That's why its called an upset. I know the concept of week to week improvement is foreign in these parts but it really does happen elsewhere.

TCU barely escaped against Utah by 3, BYU by 1, and San Diego State by 3. Their defense could not stop many Mountain West teams - what makes you think they'd last in the Big XII.

This is not an endorsement for the Big XII or anything else - just think about how TCU matches up with these teams EVERY WEEK. They would get worn down week after week playing these teams - its alot easier to ramp up for a home opener that you have months to prepare for.

[Tramp96]

TCU beat Oklahoma convincingly in Norman.  Texas Tech needed horrible officiating just to barely pull out a win at home against that same Oklahoma team and TT is supposed to be the 2nd best Big-12 team.

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OU at the beginning of the season was a completely different team than the OU at the end of the season.

At the beginning of the season, they still hadn't decided on a QB, had a young OL that hadn't gelled yet, and their offense was simply anemic.

By the end of the season, they had an OL that was doing much better, a starting QB that has played the entire season with his WR's, and a healthy Adrian Peterson back to his 2004 form.

Apples to Oranges.

TCU would have lost to UT, Tech, A&M, Colorado, Iowa State, and Nebraska. They would have had close games vs. Missouri, Kansas St., Kansas and Baylor. TCU the 2nd best team in the Big XII? Ha. No way.

[Michael Scott]

TCU would have lost to UT, Tech, A&M, Colorado, Iowa State, and Nebraska.  They would have had close games vs. Missouri, Kansas St., Kansas and Baylor.  TCU the 2nd best team in the Big XII?  Ha.  No way.

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TCU did have a shot at second in the North - maybe, but still probably finish 4-4 - which is pretty respectable for a Mountain West team in a top 5 conference.

[Mad Hatter]

Here are my thoughts on this:..........after Reading this it may sound random, but I know what I mean.

If you're one of the 100 or so schools that has no shot at a National Title game in any given year, then you are talking about being in a mediocre bowl game at best. Now to the top 5% that are only concerned with the Title, then who cares what everyone else is doing. I'd be the same way. But, if you're one of the other 95% then you DO care what mediocre Bowl game you go to, and how that'll help you financially, with publicity and with recruiting. And I'd say we care what bowl game the people in our conference are going to because it makes us look better to have good representation, and at the same time, we hate that they may have an edge in recruiting because of it.

The majority care how they do and how others do because that's how you compare your team/school.

[rcade]

The difference between winning and losing for you in the Sun Belt might look huge to you, but, to everyone else in D-1 sports, it isn’t even noteworthy.  If no one noticed when you were winning conference championships, why on Earth would they notice when you lost? ...

The perception of you guys by most outsiders is of a great team that probably has no business being in Division I-A football.  Until you start to beat some top tier teams, not just good teams, not just BCS teams, but guys that can legitimately win the National Title, no one will notice, and no one will care.  To quote Ric Flair, ‘To be the man, you’ve got to beat the man.  Whooo!’”

What do you guys think about that?

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I think it's funny to see how quickly UT fans are big-timing people, as if the Longhorns haven't gone decades since their last national championship. He sounds like a Florida or Miami fan, and UT hasn't even won anything yet.

[MeanEd]

Sounds like only the top 8-9 teams who have a shot at a national championship are the only ones that even need to play.

[meangreendork]

Illuvius32!

Though your pal is getting a little big-headed about teh UT program...

He's absolutely correct. Having rush champs is nice, but to really get noticed, we have to start thwomping someone outside of our conference. Yeah, KState, Tulsa and LaTech aren't as big as your pal would like, but going 10-1 would get us looked at.

Once our program can go out and start nailing known teams like Baylor, SMU, (whether or not they're good that season or not), then we'll get attention. If the team can go out and look good or even win against the likes of Utah, Fresno, Boise, then that's better. If the team can look good and God-Bless 'em- WIN against Top25 schools, then that's magnificent.

I like the SBC champ title, but it doesn't mean jack when our conference champ gets whomped on by teams that it should be able to beat.

[MeanMag]

I don't get what business we have complaining about the lack of OOC wins, when we can't win conference this year. I didn't hear much of that when we were winning in conference games. First things first guys, we need to win the ones we are supposed to.

[bison]

If all of the above is true why was UNT not listed anywhere in the drafting picks from HS. Because we are bad, everyone knows it, and the administration intends to do nothing about it. Div IIA here we come.

[Monkeypox]

I didn't hear much of that when we were winning in conference games.

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Then you weren't listening.

[Rudy]

But according to some, its ok, we just have to keep winning the Belt and thats all. And to others, dd has earned a "down" year because he's won the SBC title 4 years in a row.

Facts:

Even with the 4 SBC championships, he still has a losing record

Only 7 OOC wins in 8 years, 2 of those were over D-1AA teams

Loss to a first year program, and 2 losses to a program now in its 10th year.

Yes, hes been voted the 4 time SBC coach of the year, by coaches worse than him, who can't manage to win the worst conference in the nation. This isnt a fire dd post, its a post saying we need someone to take us to the next step up, before we fall a few steps back down.

But it really ok when you think about it. We beat MTSU at MTSU, who beat Vandy at home, and Vandy beat Tennessee in Tennessee.

[gruu]

Ok, his comments are not so out of the ordinary. And, I might say the same thing.... If;

1) I was an ignorant and arrogent arce,

2) I graduated from a University that has;

a) the best "officiating" money can buy (ie 2004 Kansas, 1988 UNT, et all);

one of the largest budgets in the USA;

c) won so many national football championships recently... ooops... when was that last one?

Hmmm... if we spent that much... and have not won a national championship for so long... I'd be pissed off and want my money back. Oh , wait, they don't have a national championship for D1A football. Just that popularity contest... influenced by money, hype and perception.

[Eagle1855]

I like the SBC champ title, but it doesn't mean jack when our conference champ gets whomped on by teams that it should be able to beat.

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Exactly, and this is precisely why Illuvius' friend is correct.

For the most part, nobody but the die hard CFB fan cares about teams in a different part of the country that are in non-bcs conferences.

Toledo went 8-3 this year. Anyone care?

How many of you know Nevada's record off hand? Akron?

They tied for a share of their respective conferences title(or in Akrons' case, their division and a chance in the MAC champ game), but outside of their regions or respective states, they have no national appeal. In fact I had no clue Nevada even had a "decent" program this year til they beat fresno state last week.

We shrug our shoulders at the aforementioned teams the same way they do us. I think that is the point his friend is trying to make. Its not an insult, its reality.

[NT91]

The perception of you guys by most outsiders is of a great team that probably has no business being in Division I-A football.

What the hell is this. All UT fans can go to.....

[meangreanmick]

I chatted with a friend last week who is a 2001 graduate of the University of Texas, bemoaning our 2-9 season.  I told him how I could not believe that we lost to so many bad teams by such a wide margin, and that we lost all the respect and momentum we had gained from a great four year run through the Sun Belt.

Here’s what he said:

“Even if you won out, people might notice, but no one would care.  The difference between winning and losing for you in the Sun Belt might look huge to you, but, to everyone else in D-1 sports, it isn’t even noteworthy.  If no one noticed when you were winning conference championships, why on Earth would they notice when you lost?

You act like you were going from a national championship season to the bottom of your conference.  Matt, if you’re talking about respect, your team’s season was one game long.  If you beat LSU, people might start to talk.  Otherwise…

Beat K-State?  You mean the 5-6 team that finished last in the pitifully poor Big 12 North?

Beat Louisiana Tech? The team that is fourth in the WAC ahead of three former Sun Belt teams, including winless New Mexico State,  3-8 San Jose State, and 4-7 Hawaii?

Beat Tulsa?  The team that is leading C-USA west with a 7-4 record?

If you go 10-1 this season, you lose, because everyone expects the team with the back to back rushing champions to dominate.  Either the teams you beat are inferior and you’re supposed to win, or YOU are inferior to some very weak teams.  Like it or not, this was a lose/lose season for you guys.  It might suck, but that’s the case for all mid-major teams.  Look at what TCU has done, but they’re gone because they lost their composure for one game.  You can’t be 10-1 or 9-2 in a non-BCS conference and expect anything but a middle of the road bowl game.

In fact, I suspect that even if you had somehow found a way to beat LSU, people wouldn’t be talking about you; they’d be talking about how LSU managed to stumble.  You wouldn’t be star of the show, you’d be the “other guy” who won because LSU sucked, and not through any virtue of your own.

The perception of you guys by most outsiders is of a great team that probably has no business being in Division I-A football.  Until you start to beat some top tier teams, not just good teams, not just BCS teams, but guys that can legitimately win the National Title, no one will notice, and no one will care.  To quote Ric Flair, ‘To be the man, you’ve got to beat the man.  Whooo!’”

What do you guys think about that?

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Well, first you have to replace where he says "people", "everyone", etc. with "me" - because I don't think "every other sports fan" nominated this guy to speak for them. We could probably poll some Michigan fans and they probably don't give a damn about Tx A&M and Okie State. So what does that mean?

According to his explanation, only the top 12 or so programs who have a chance to win a national championship should be playing D1 football. I think the guy suffers from anial cranial inversion. I went to UT in the late '80's when the Horns weren't so great, and trust me the fans weren't quite so high and mighty.

Do all college football fans care about the Mean Green or many of the other mid-majors? Probably not, but have more people heard of the Mean Green after being to the NO Bowl the last 4 years? Definitely. I have many colleagues that work up North and they now ask me about the Mean Green. 5 years ago, they would have had no idea what I was talking about. (Unfortunately when they see us on ESPN + they watch they give me hell when we lose).

Can I quote Toledo's record. No. Can the random college football fan quote our record, probably not. Can I quote the records of every Big Ten team? Not without looking them up.

[ATXCajun]

No offence but your friend is a stupid imbecile.  For example TCU would be the 2nd best team in the Big-12 this season.  They wouldn't have been playing for the national championship but if we use those standards then most of the Big-12 and in fact most of the BCS teams are garbage as well.

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Whenever I hear someone speaking for "everybody," it immediately becomes clear that they have no clue. People often translate "I don't care" or "people I know don't care" to "nobody cares" because their universe is small. What I mean by that, in the context of college football, is that real college football fans know a great deal about other teams and conferences. The small universe people often don't even know that much about their own team, and generally repeat was is common knowledge to appear "in the know." These are the same people that get on and off the bandwagon, and hang around only to associate themselves with a winner and pretend like they had something to do with that success.